Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be explosively red hot for the Messiah, if not now when? I mean this is the moment of God pouring out His Spirit on all flesh like I haven’t seen I was a brand new believer. My guest Dr. Michael Brown, President of Fire School of Ministry, PhD in near Eastern languages and literatures from a secular university, New York University; reads, rights or understands at least twelve Semitic languages; considered one of the top Messianic Jewish scholars in the world. And tell me some new things that are going on right now at Fire School of Ministry Dr. Brown.
Michael: Well, we have just developed a one year program “Fire Immersion School” for everyone hungry for more of God. Maybe you’re not sure where you’re going next in life or just getting out of high school or needing a life change; an intensive one year immersion in the word, in the Spirit and in the things of God. It’s going to be extraordinary program starting this coming fall, this very year. Then we’re instituting for the next level, Fire Leadership Institute which is also going to have within it a School of Jewish Ministry. We’ve never had before a full focus, we’re bringing other top leaders and teachers to help train; that’s going to be part of our Fire Leader Institute. So some real neat things happening, if folks go to your website they’ll get a link to my website, go to Fire. Find out what’s happening. It’s an extraordinary time, and God’s moving in our midst.
Sid: Okay, I am troubled over something you take on head on in your new book that we’re featuring this week, “What do Jewish People Think about Jesus” and other questions Christians ask about Jewish beliefs, practices and histories and mostly questions you’ve never even thought of asking. But you will find fascinating, it’s going to open up the New Testament like you’ve never had it opened up before. But I am troubles over all of these titles Dr. Brown, prophet this, apostle that, Rabbi this, what about the term Rabbi? I read a commentary recently and it said, “Rabbi has the connotation of someone exalted, this would be the last thing Jesus would want his disciples to be called, exalted.
Michael: Of course I deal with the question in my book and lay out both sides of the issue. I want to try and summarize that and then give you my heartfelt reaction. First I think all the title stuff is wrong, be it apostle, or prophet this or teacher this, or pastor this. You know people call me Dr. Brown, it’s a certain point of reference like a medical doctor, PhD doctor or whatever, but in terms of a spiritual title you know I’m Mike Brown, Scott Fold who leads Fire Congregation is Scott. Our guys in our midst that are apostolic or prophetic they’re just Bob or Josh or whoever, they are just people and I don’t see the need. Listen I understand certain cultures people like to have it, I have friends of mine, black brothers who are pastors, and have churches under them and they’re called bishop. And the New Testament in the King James makes reference to that office of bishop, I understand why people do it. I certainly don’t judge the motivation of hearts. But come on to hand me a business card with the name Apostle so and so it you know I…
Sid: Let’s get closer to home, the title Rabbi.
Michael: I respect my Messianic friends that use the title and the reasons they have for using it. Personally I’m not at home with it, I chose in my book to give the evidence both ways and to give the discussion, and then to raise the point that within Israel Messianic Jewish leaders do not use the Rabbi title. I decided because of the nature of the book…
Sid: Listen, Mike I find guys that have ten people they call it a congregation, they’ve had no training, they call themselves Rabbi, and they get instant respect in the Christian community. I have a problem there.
Michael: Listen, here’s my personal opinion, I have a problem there also, I think it actually hurts our witness to the Jewish community. I’ll tell you why, a lot of our, we have Messianic “Rabbi’s who are Gentiles.” We have rabbis’ who can’t even read Hebrew, we have Messianic Rabbis’ who are you know more Holy Ghost Christians than anything else, is that wrong to be a Holy Ghost Christian? No, but when you’re just going to put a yarmulke on, put on a prayer shawl, use a couple of Hebrew prayers in a service, it discredits Jesus, it makes it look as if He’s also superficial, it makes it look as if…
Sid: All right you go into detail in the book. Tell me something about Hasidic Jews, what are Hasidic Jews?
Michael: Okay Hasidic Jews are groups of Jews that grew out of the 18 century, a man named Baal Shem Tov reacted against the rigid formalism of the Orthodox in his day, a rigid formalism with massive emphasis on study and a certain legalism to it. He broke away from it and emphasized instead a mystical connection with God, and that a shepherd in a field could cry out and have a mystical connection with God. The controversy was so great in the early days that the Orthodox Jews excommunicated the Hasidic Jews; they have persevered to the point that they are one of the larger groups of ultra-Orthodox Jews in the world today. They are characterized by this emphasis on great devotion, mystical connection to God and then in particular they put emphasis on their spiritual leader that they call the Rebbi.
Sid: Okay well speaking of spiritual leaders, in New York City, and Israel you see billboards of a Rabbi that died by the name of Rabbi Shearson. Who is he and why do they have billboards?
Michael: Rabbi Shearson died in ’94 at the age of 92; he was the Grand Rabbi, or the Rebbi, of the Lubavitch sect of Hasidic Jews. I lay out all the stuff in my book, names, terms, backgrounds etcetera. They began to believe that he was the Messiah, they had mystical reasons for it, he helped spread Judaism around the world. They said that he must be the Messiah and then he had a stroke, he couldn’t speak, they said, “Ah hah, Isaiah 53 said he’d be like a lamb going to the slaughter couldn’t speak,” etcetera, and then he died, which shocked them all. Listen these guys were wearing beepers around the world in the early nineties waiting for the beeper to go off that the Rebbi had revealed himself as the Messiah. Instead the word came out that he died, you said that was the end of it. They said, “No, he spiritually rose,” they said that, “His death was just a test of our faith.” Some said that, “He would return,” some say “He would return,” and they to this day many of them believe that he is king messiah, and they go around proclaiming him as messiah and calling Jews to return to traditional Judaism etcetera.
Sid: But after all of these years they still believe many of them that he’s messiah?
Michael: Oh, listen this movement has actually grown, it’s quite amazing the movement has grown.
Sid: Well listen if they believe a messiah is going to die and come back from the dead that’s not a big stretch then to Jesus.
Michael: Oh, this is tremendously exploited; I began to write on it immediately, others have said, “Hang on guys, you said the Messiah couldn’t die before he completed his mission, that he couldn’t rise from the dead, return etcetera, etcetera. Check this out now, some of them even believe that he carries within himself the essence of God, some of them even teach that’s it’s acceptable to pray towards him.
Sid: Oh, what a people group to reach. Tell me a bit about the cause and then this is a loaded question because of the shortness of time; the cause of so much anti-Semitism historically and even today.
Michael: There’s no question that the Jewish people have been the most hated people, hated for the longest period of time, the most vicious ongoing widespread irrational hatred. There are various reasons, people say that it’s economic, people say it’s because Jews are different, people say because you have to find a scape goat, people say it’s because of Christianity. None of the reasons fully check out, there is universal anti-Semitism because God chose the Jews through whom to reveal Himself and to send His Messiah. And the reason for anti-Semitism is because satan hates God, therefore satan hates the Jews, and wants to wipe them out and destroy them. It is the ultimate reason for it. And Sid I’ve given lectures at Yale and Columbia and laid those things out and nobody was able to come up with a better answer.
Sid: Why should someone read your new book “What do Jewish People think about Jesus and Much, Much More?”
Michael: Well, Jesus Himself is Jewish, the New Testament was written against a Jewish background, there’s daily controversy over the nation of Israel today. There are Christians swing on all sides of the board, there are all kinds of Messianic Jewish beliefs, there are Messiah Jews that start well and then end up with weird fringed beliefs.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with LaDonna Taylor. And LaDonna, do you remember the first time you stepped into full time ministry? Now of course as a 12-year-old, you would play the violin and people would be healed. But the first time you stepped into full time ministry, tell me what happened.
LaDONNA: I was ministering a service. I didn’t know what to do, except tell my life story. So I told the life story, and I invited the people to come to the altar for the laying on of hands to be healed, proclaiming that Jesus is their healer and miracle worker. Everyone that came was healed.
SID: How many came?
LaDONNA: About 50 or 60 people.
SID: That’s quite a way to start.
LaDONNA: Praise the Lord.
SID: Where do you go from here? But you told me, and I love the way you said it. You said that God gets into the notes of what you play. Elaborate on that.
LaDONNA: I’m not sure how to even elaborate on it. But I know He permeates the sound waves. You know, music is a very powerful force on this earth. Science even knows that. You know, when you go shopping, music to influence you everywhere.
LaDONNA: But how much more when God gets in the notes and those notes, music can literally go straight to your spirit, bypassing doubt in your soul area and go straight to your inner being.
SID: I like that. Now I had the privilege of meeting and getting to know a little bit, Katherine Kuhlman. And she had favorite songs. The reason they were favorite is she knew that God liked it. And she would have these songs played every service. Now do you feel that there are certain songs that cause God to operate specific gifts?
LaDONNA: I absolutely do. And this was a learning experience for me. I barely knew how to stand behind a microphone when I started full time ministry, 13 years ago. Well I just started noticing certain songs, everybody’s back would be healed, certain other songs, deaf ears would open, and I started seeing the pattern.
SID: The song, “Here I Am to Worship,” most of us know that. What does God do when you play that music?
LaDONNA: I’ve seen many, many cases of fibromyalgia disappear within seconds, just instant.
SID: Are there, like there’s other songs that you have, that you see specific diseases get healed. Tell me one.
LaDONNA: “Amazing Grace”, such a beautiful, beautiful piece of music.
SID: It is.
LaDONNA: The whole world knows that music. Bones, adjustment, alignment, ligaments during that music.
SID: I am going to ask LaDonna to go to the music set right now and play, “Here I Am to Worship” and here’s what’s going to happen. People actually feel arthritis being sucked out of them as she plays music. Anything you need. Don’t pray for what you need. Pray to get closer to the Lord. LaDonna Taylor, “Here I Am to Worship”.
Sid: My guests are Jordan and Michelle Cooke. I’m speaking to them at their home in University Place, Washington just outside of Takoma Washington. And at a very early age Michelle found that Jordan has a gift from God. God speaks to her and she paints way beyond her years and very unconventional fashion, but it’s magnificent. The paintings are supernatural and prophetic. There was one Michelle which is outrageous, it’s called “God’s self-portrait,” explain.
Michelle: Okay, Jordan was four years old, we were sitting down to lunch and she asked me what God looked like? Kind a stumped me, I told her well God looks like, He’s a spirit and you know Jesus is the image of God. So of course, “What’s Jesus look like?” You know these questions, finally I said, “You know what Jordan, I need you to ask God for Him to show you what He looks like.” So she sat down to paint and we did not have water color paper, which is very thick and textured so we used printer paper out of my printer, we sat down and she painted this beautiful picture called, “Holy Spirit Dove.” And it just looks like the Holy Spirit just rushing across the sky to answer prayer. When it dried we went to carefully peal it off of the stack of papers and underneath is the a face, the paint had bled through and I’m telling you, you cannot look at this and not see a face, Jordan just started squalling with delight. “Look it God painted a picture for me! Instead of me painting for Him, He painted this, she didn’t even touch it, and it looks like a very old Jesus, it almost looks sort of see through like a spirit and I realized that God has such a willingness to be known that he stops at no length to communicate with us at the level we’re at. It had no, it was no problem for Him to show a four year old little girl what it means to have the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, it’s right there in the painting.
Sid: And you know I’m looking at another one of her paintings, and again she was five when she did this, it is unbelievable it must me a gift from God, there is no other explanation. And of course all of her paintings are prophetic. This is called the “Bridegroom,” tell me about this one.
Michelle: Awe, she painted the “Bridegroom” on the evening of Passover. When she finished she put this garland of olive branches around the head like a crown where a crown of thorns would normally sit. And she said to me, “He’s not going to wear a crown of thorns he’s already done that. And she made Him smiling, she kept saying as she’s painting, He’s coming back for kisses this time and He looked so happy, his whole face is just lite up and we went to a class. It was an early you know Jewish, Hebrew traditional class and they told us that the bridegroom when he’s about to present Himself to the Bride in a Jewish wedding he would adorn Himself with an olive branch over His head. So we knew that was the name of that painting should be the bridegroom because He’s coming back for a glorious Bride.
Sid: Is there any way that she could have known that in the natural about the olive branch.
Michelle: No, we had a lady ask Jordan point blank, “Why did you put the olive garland on His head?” And Jordan’s answer was, “Because the crown of thorns hurts him,” so in her mind she didn’t want to put the thorns because it was painful for him. So I don’t think she knew.
Sid: Okay, I am looking at another painting; well I can’t wait to get you guys on television because it’s hard to do paintings on radio.
Michelle: I know.
Sid: Well, it’s not easy.
Michelle: Well, they can look on line, they can do that.
Sid: Okay, tell me a bit about the “Yeshua Tree” she did that when she was five years of age. I mean how does a five year old paint like this?
Michelle: I don’t know, she doesn’t get it from me, I’ll tell you, I’m not artistic that way.
Sid: Okay, describe the “Yeshua Tree.”
Michelle: We have been looking through a Bible atlas and she just was fixated on the olive trees, she thought they were so neat so she wanted to paint one. So she got out her water colors and mixed all the paints and everything and started to paint. And instead of making a single trunk she made two. In fact she made them in the shape of a big giant “Y” and as she painted she kept saying this is the Yeshua Tree. “Y” for Yeshua and later she was explaining to me that this is how they all come together, the Jews and the other people, and she was painting and that’s how she finished it. And in fact she even did a little teeny teeny branch on the left of the “Y”, and they’re separated just slightly. She said, “That’s only way the Middle East will be together you know, Ishmael and Isaac, she didn’t say Ishmael and Isaac she said “The people fighting, the people fighting will only be together if they’re with Jesus that’s the only way.” So she was in her own way trying to say that “Everything, everything comes together in the Yeshua Tree.
Sid: Now I have asked Jordan this but I’m going to ask you Michelle, “What do you believe prophetically God has in store for your daughter?”
Michelle: Well, when Jordan was very little I had a dream. I don’t have many, but the ones I get are I know from God. And I saw her holding the ram’s horn, the shofar, and He said “That she’d be a voice.” Now I don’t know where or how, I believe the paintings are an indication of her ability to express God and His willingness to use her. But I’ve seen it come out in other ways, I’ve seen her compose music, not to the extent she paints, but I’ve seen her do it and I’ve recognized His hand on her life in many ways. There are times that we’re driving and I’ll be lost and she say, “God said, left, God says turn left”, and I’ll turn left and there’s the freeway, this kind of thing.
Sid: I could use her in my car, ha-ha-ha. As a matter of fact I’d like to talk to her, would you put Jordan back on the telephone.
Sid: Hi Jordan, I’ve been talking to your mom and as you know about several of your paintings. Tell me about God’s self portrait, where you shocked when you saw that God did it and you had nothing to do with it.
Jordan: I was totally excited; I went and jumped on the couch! He-he.
Jordan: It was awesome, I loved it.
Sid: Now tell me about the “Yeshua Tree,” that’s special.
Jordan: Yeah, I was really excited when He showed me that though. Wooo.
Sid: When He showed that to you did He show it to you as you painted or did He show it to you before you painted the “Yeshua Tree?”
Jordan: Well, the Yeshua Tree is the Jews and the Christians coming together, because there’s two branches, a shorter one and then a bigger one.
Sid: It forms the “Y” it sure does.
Jordan: And Jesus or Yeshua and their one.
Sid: And is there going to be peace in any other way in the Middle East except Jew and Gentile and Arab being one in Jesus.
Jordan: No way, that’s the only way, through Jesus.
Sid: And let me take you back when Jesus came into your room and told you that your mother would be healed, tell me that story very quickly.
Jordan: Well, what happened it was on my eight birthday last year, and I saw someone writing on the little bedstand, I just knew that it was Jesus. And I heard Him say “Ask”, and I was guessing that He was what I wanted for my birthday. And I said, “I wanted my mom healed. “Done,” and He disappeared.
Sid: When you see the Spiritual scales come off the eyes of Jewish people recognize that there’s going to be such an outpouring of God’s Spirit just before He returns that’s where we are right now. And that’s why I’m interviewing right now Franklin Walden. We found out on yesterdays interview that he prayed for his sister-in-law and she not only got a healing of her one kidney but a second kidney materialized. I mean Franklin, this should not astound me but it does astound me. I mean that this is not your typical healing of a pain disappearing, this is where there wasn’t a kidney, there is a kidney. And then you told me about your dad and that just so provokes me to jealousy, he was raised with a father that didn’t know how to read or write and God taught him the Bible to the point where he would know if there was a misquote or not, that’s how well he knew the Bible, and so he mentored Franklin. And Franklin, when you were twelve years of age you had an amazing encounter with God tell me about that.
Franklin: I had a vision and I was caught up in the heavens looking down up over the earth, and God showed me the people, and I never dreamed today as I sit here that I’d ever be telling this vision like I’m going to tell it. Because I saw the needs of the suffering and the heartaches of the people and the Lord spoke to my heart at twelve and said, “When you see this come to pass know that my coming is near.” Now, you don’t know what I’m fixen to say, I’m gonna tell you this, that vision was when I was twelve, I’ll be seventy-five my birthday. And when you broadcast this, and it goes like you said on television and radio, the vision will be full at twelve years old. God gave it to me that long time ago. Now, I’ve been on satellite, but as I’m coming over here the Lord said, “This is what I showed you.”
Sid: Describe again to me what He showed you.
Franklin: He showed me the needs of the people the whole world, I was caught up into the heavens, looking down; I didn’t even know that they had satellite. Well, they didn’t back then, and I didn’t know anything about it, but God knew what’s going to be there, that I could speak and it will go all over the world.
Sid: Well, I want your faith to so grow that by the time of Thursday or Friday’s radio show, and all of those needs that are represented by people like yourself. By the time the Friday radio show rolls around and I’m going to have him pray for the sick your faith will so grow. As a matter of fact I want you to meet another woman that I interviewed, Pam Richie who was in 2007 she got a bad report from the doctors and I want you to hear about her miracle, let’s go to the interview with Pam Ritchie.
Sid: I have Pam Ritchie on the telephone and in 2007 she got a diagnosis from her doctor that no one would want, four conditions, sacroiliac joint disease, performance muscle damage, four bulging disks, and osteoporosis. She was on morphine three times a day, she had a number of epidurals for pain, she really got to the point where she was so worried because the prognosis’s that she would be eventually bed ridden. She was worried she wouldn’t be able to take care of herself. How long did you deal with this conditions and this pain Pam?
Pam: Three years.
Sid: How bad was the pain?
Pam: The pain was so bad that it hurt to breathe, it hurt to move my leg, it hurt to have to get up to go to the restroom. It hurt to move, it felt like the hairs on my hair, my arms, my legs, they hurt, everything hurt. It was just terrible, terrible pain and on two particular days all I could do, I was bed ridden for two solid days, and all I could do was but lay there and pray. I mean the pain was just…and moments I felt like I was just out of my head. Of course I was on the morphine, but I still had enough mind you know to just to pray.
Sid: Pam, did you ever reach the point where the pain was so horrific you just wanted to die?
Pam: Yes sir, I did, and I just prayed.
Sid: And you had the thoughts about being bed ridden, that must have been awful.
Pam: Oh, it was awful, I mean I’m the kind of person you know that I take care of other people, I mean I’m just not a person that allows people to take care of me, I’m a caretaker. And my husband and I had discussed about me having to have someone to take care of me and I just did not want that.
Sid: Okay, October 2008 you attended a church where Franklin was speaking, what happened?
Pam: Franklin finished his message and he began to minister in the Spirit and he said that there was a lady in the back of the church with a white jacket on and that lady happened to be me. I was actually sitting in the back church because I wasn’t sure that I could sit that long and you know just in case because of all the pain that I was in, and he asked if that lady would step out into the aisle. He prophesied, ministered to the spirit and prayed for me. And from that night my body has been totally different, I have taken no morphine, I have had no pain, I know that God used him because when he was prophesying he specifically used words that only my husband and I had talked about and so I know that I’m healed.
Sid: How can you explain being in such horrific pain and being pain free, how can explain that?
Pamela: Because I know that God heals.
Sid: Well, this is Sid Roth and I’m back with you with Franklin Walden. Franklin was the one that had the Word of Knowledge on Pam Ritchie’s. Does that astound you Franklin when you know things about people that there’s no way you could have known it and they tell you that your revealing the secrets that are going on in my house that no one in the world know but us and God.
Franklin: Well, that’s the anointing, when the anointing comes upon me for that particular gift to operate. They always got to be somebody for that gift to respond to, it just doesn’t stay laying in your Spirit. And so when it comes upon us I know that it is always “Thus saith the Lord.” I don’t speculate in people’s problems, I know what I am talking about. The Lord speaks to me.
Sid: When He speaks to you is it primarily a thought or you actually hear His voice?
Franklin: Well, I hear a voice in my spirit, it is more than a thought, it’s a, I hear it in the Spirit, and I don’t hear it with the five sense, knowledge or hear it at all. When you’re in the Spirit like this, you neither down here in the natural and you’re not all the way in the supernatural. You’re somewhere in between.
Sid: I see.
Franklin: Where God can speak to you and it shuts everything out except you’re healed.
Sid: I have to tell you though, it’s hard for me to comprehend how you got caught up in business, you were very successful with the gifts that God has given you, the prophecies, the experiences. Then you go into the army and they actually the angel of the Lord speaks to you that you’ll soon be out, and you were soon out of the army. And you had made a vow to God and that you were going to serve Him full time, but you went back into business and then you were given a death sentence six months to live, heart problems. How could you have done that Franklin?
Franklin: Well, we came up without very much, lived on a farm and I said that I was going to be a millionaire at thirty years old.
Sid: I said the same thing; we both heard the same voice.
Franklin: I wanted to give mother and dad things that they never did have and I run from God to do that, but I got in trouble. When I got in trouble He just became silent. He wouldn’t talk to me, I had made three vows and when He did come He said, “You made three vows to Me and broke them all, and left.
Sid: So you got this death sentence six months to live with heart problems and you decided to go to a church one night, it must have been difficult for you to even have the physical strength to do that.
Franklin: Oh, I wasn’t even supposed to walk up a set of steps, I wasn’t supposed to drive a car. My daddy went out, as we called it back then, “to sloop the hogs” on the farm. You know and while he was gone, it was on a Sunday morning, mother had worked at the little Church of God over the hill, she walked. Well, I had an extra set of keys that they did not know about and I got in truck and drove to this other minister’s home and he carried me to the little church where I was healed. And I got in there and the heart was going…
Sid: Well, time is slipping away; we’ll pick up on this story on tomorrow’s broadcast. But Mishpochah, how would you like Franklin Walden to mentor you? You know when people were with Jesus they just watched what He did and it kind of, it was contagious, it just jumped on them…
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear the good news. When you hear my guest L.A. Marzulli you will realize this it is essential that people get saved and get saved right away because of what’s happening on planet earth. L.A. you produced three DVD’s it’s a set called Watchers. The first one talks about UFOs, the second one “Signs in the heaven and the earth and the Watchers,” and the third, “Finger Prints of the Supernatural.” How in the world did you get so much documentation of so much supernatural that you can’t even see on the news; and in fact it’s almost supernatural that this stuff isn’t on the news every night?
L.A: Ha-ha. Well, my good friend and co-Producer Richard Shaw and I we picked these topics, we try to find expert and similar to what you do and we go out and we interview them. And we discuss and talk about and look for information that we find incredibly interesting that deals with in Watchers III, “Finger Prints of the Supernatural” and that what that whole DVD talks about. Certainly the Shroud of Turin in my opinion is something, an artifact of probably the most enigmatic artifact on the planet that we can look at and say “Wow something has caused image on this cloth, the image of crucified man on a cloth.” The cloth is about 14’ long 3’ wide and frontal dorsal images of a crucified man. How was this done? And recently Italian scientists have went out and said “You know we think that it’s definitely not a painting and that the image might have been put there by UV lights they’re not sure, fascinating stuff.
Sid: Alright if it was put with UV light what does that mean?
L.A: Ha-ha-ha. Well they’re saying that it’s a burst of ultra violet light, a sudden burst of ultra-violet light. One of the people that we …
Sid: So therefore it could not; if of what you’re saying is authentic it could not just be perhaps a counterfeit or perhaps someone else who was crucified.
L.A: Correct and I have been an amateur sunaologist for thirty-one years since I became born from above. And when I look at that I believe it’s the real deal, I believe that it’s forensic evidence of the greatest event on the planet. And that of course is the resurrection of the God Man Yeshua.
Sid: Okay, let’s go back to what we left off with, on yesterdays broadcast, because I’m finding this fascinating. You actually interviewed, and this is right on your DVD’s scientists, doctors that are people supposedly were caught up in flying saucers; they had an implant and there’s actually one man that has removed these from people. By the way, are these people psycho’s, are they really weirdo’s?
L.A: Most of the people that come forward with these implants in them do not want any notoriety, they are embarrassed by them, they just want them out. And so it’s very difficult to actually track down some of the people, when we are trying to find one of these guy and try to sit down and talk to them. They are extremely reticent about coming in front of the camera, they don’t want any notoriety, they just want these things out and be left alone. So it’s not someone looking for money or you know the latest craze on the news at 6:00, or whatever; they just want these things out.
Sid: Okay, tell me about the doctor that has actually removed these implants, what was his report?
L.A: Well, again he was a total skeptic when he first got into this and now he realizes that we are not in Kansas anymore when he looks at these implants. They are very complex; they are giving off some sort of a frequency which we believe is a clocks speed of 300 GHz, that’s 100 times faster than our fastest computer that we have on the planet. When I asked him point bank, “what do you think this thing is doing?” Remember he has no eschatological or end time dog in the hunt as Christians would; not really aware of what the Mark of the Beast might be or that type of stuff that are reading in the Book of Revelation and doesn’t know anything about that. He looked at me and just said, “Well changing the persons DNA, just like that.” And that got me thinking, “Changing the person’s DNA”, and Yeshua tells us that it will be like in the days of Noah. What differentiates the day of Noah from any other time in History is the presence of the fallen angels and the Nephilim. There could be a definite connection between the two.
Sid: Is there, in your opinion, conclusive proof that the substance, the material of the implants is not from this earth?
L.A: Well I would say a resounding yes. When it’s analyzed at different metallurgy in different labs, the closest thing we have to it is meteorite metal found in the Arizona crater; that’s the closes thing we have into it. They went to a machine shop and they tried to cut it open with a diamond blade saw, it wouldn’t work. They finally took it to a laboratory, cut the thing open with a laser beam, inside they found nanotubes and double nanotubes and they have no idea how this thing is working or what it does; but he believes that it’s powered as I do, it’s powered by the person’s nervous system and their circulatory system. And it’s changing the persons host DNA which is startling.
Sid: Startling, is an understatement.
L.A: Yes, it is.
Sid: What about the fact that most of the countries of the world have been reporting UFO’s and they’ve released the information, but the U.S. is keeping it hidden. Why would the U.S. keep it hidden now that so many people are talking about these, so many other countries are releasing their information on UFO’s?
L.A: Good question, well we see France and Britain and Belgium and the U.K. and Germany and Brazil and Mexico and other countries, Japan have all released on time what were at one time top secret classified documentation saying that the phenomena is real. The U.S. however tap dances around it and doesn’t say anything about it; in fact pooh-poohs anything to do with UFOs specifically…
Sid: Okay, look, I seen your proof, I am convinced that UFO’s are real, the bigger question is are they from God, are they from the devil, what are they?
L.A: I believe this is part of what I call the coming great deception. When we read in 2nd Thessalonians and it says the Satan comes with all signs and wonders, why do we under estimate him? When Ben Stein and his movie “Expelled” sits down with a premier evolution of the twentieth and twenty-first Century, Richard Dawkins poses a question to him, “Where life begins.” Dawkins has no answer he only says “Well, maybe millions of years ago in another universe an extraterrestrial scene was here.” He’s already promulgating without knowing what I call the great deception. Darwinism has eroded the bastion of Christianity; what was our world view literally for hundreds of years here, now it’s eroded to the point to maybe there is no God at all.
Sid: So our world view of God is eroding and our world view of the demonic, except not calling it the demonic, is spreading throughout our culture.
L.A: Absolutely we see it in movies, we see it in music videos, we see it in television shows, it is everywhere; ET is here.
Sid: How about Louis Farrakhan, now I have not seen this in the news but I’ve read first hand reports by him of having, he has been taken up in a UFO. Explain very briefly those reports.
L.A: Apparently leader Louis Farrakhan claimed to have been taken aboard a UFO and received communication from literally “space brothers.” So we see that Farrakhan was taken, abducted if you were, in you please by these so called aliens. The question, the $64,000 question, are they extraterrestrial or inner-dimensional beings. Of course I believe these are inner-dimensional beings that we’re looking at. In other words I believe that they’re demonic.
Sid: Okay, so I’m wondering if he had one of those implants and there is no mention of that, and his DNA is changing and then we see the link between him and former pastor of the President of the United States of America, the church that he went to for twenty plus years. And they take Farrakhan as the Man of the Year and it’s getting very spooky.
Sid: It’s really end time stuff.
L.A: Absolutely, I believe that the whole UFO phenomenon is part of the great deception, let’s look at this for a second Sid. We know in the book of Revelation that it says that it will be a one world religious system as well as a one world government. The one world government is not hard to see but the one world religious system is a real mind bender. How do you get 1.8 billion Christians, 1.4 billion Muslims and a billion Hindus to somehow change their world view and paradigm? What one event…
Sid: Listen it’s hard to just get Christians to act like Jesus says we’re supposed to love one another. How are you going to get Muslims, Christians and Jews and Hindus doing it?
L.A: Well, exactly. But if you have three mile wide craft and I realize this sounds very very bazaar, but when you start doing some homework you’ll see that people have seen mile wide, three mile wide craft all over the planet. And when you see these things really begin to manifest openly so where you’re looking at the 6:00 news and their showing you real footage of a mile wide craft or whatever it’s a game changer, it’s a huge game changer.
Sid: So when people see these UFO’s they are going to be willing to unify for the sake of safety.
L.A: Well, or the occupatants will tell us that they seeded us here, they started the worlds religion, started our civilizations. Genetically manipulated us and now at this critical juncture in human history they are back to usher us into a time of peace, prosperity and knowledge. This is what the New Agers are talking about and promulgating in what they believe.
Sid: And you have an amazing view of the Mark of the Beast, perhaps we’ll talk about that on tomorrows broadcast. But you know if it were just these aliens and these flying saucers and boy what documentation he has. That would be worth you writing for, but it is far more than that. It changes in the planet, it’s things that were prophesized thousands of years ago in the Bible that are coming to pass right before our very eyes these tsunamis, these earthquakes are not accidents, there signs of the soon return of Jesus. It will cause the greatest skeptic to say you know Jesus is the Messiah.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to have intimacy with God, religion is good until you have intimacy with God, and then religion becomes bad. My guest Rabbi Jonathan Bernis interviewing him on his brand new book title “A Rabbi Looks at the Last Days” and I love the title of the first chapter of the book, “What if everything you’ve been told about the last days is wrong?” On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Jonathan came from a Jewish family, got into drugs and partying. His goal was to become a millionaire by age thirty, he was even dealing drugs and he bumped into crazy Suzie, crazy was a druggie, and all of a sudden she was like a completely different person, did you do a double take when you saw her after she had that change?
Jonathan: I absolutely did Sid because it was unmistakable change in her life, she went from being haggard and emaciated and just had death all over her, to smiling shining filled with life. And I made the mistake of asking what happened to her and she devoted the next few months of her life to telling me.
Sid: Okay, so you finally decide to go to a Bible study that she invites you to, you go to that study, you can’t wait to get out but in order to get out there were a few requirements, tell me about them.
Jonathan: Well, the basement, the study was in the basement and to get out I had to go upstairs and I was invited upstairs by the teacher of the study and another older gentleman that was attending the study. And they took me up to the living room and began to put a Bible in my lap and began to lead me through various scriptures that talked about the sin and the separation from God and the wages of God being death. And Sid I had what I can only describe what is a supernatural experience, I didn’t hear any voice I didn’t see anything, but the room literally began to change, I now know that it was the presence of God coming into the room, but the room became very hot and I began to sweat. The lights seem to brighten and the couch that I was a sitting on seemed like it was a trick couch because it literally reached out and held me in the place so that I felt like I could not move. I thought that it was all rigged and later found out that it was all normal, the light were normal. It was the Spirit of God coming into the room and convictive me of my sin and separation from Him.
Sid: So you said the prayer and left determined you’d never go back there, and you also determined that the prayer didn’t mean anything at that time?
Jonathan: Absolutely! I went home and did some drugs to forget the whole experience; it was a horrible experience for me because I was not ready to surrender my life. At least I didn’t think so, but within a day or two I began to have this overwhelming urge to read the scriptures in particular the New Testament which is a funny story in itself Sid because I had no idea where to find the New Testament. I couldn’t go to temple, I didn’t have any friends that had New Testaments and I began to search for a New Testament, finally I had to drive all the way back home about one hundred miles on my motorcycle to find a Bible with a New Testament that someone had given me years earlier when I was in a group called Young Life, and I threw it in my closet in some box, and I drove all the way back from Buffalo to Rochester, New York to find that Bible. Went a hundred miles on motorcycle and to devour the scriptures and my life has never been the same since that’s twenty-eight years ago.
Sid: And we’ve been friends for most of that twenty-eight years and you became a Rabbi of a Messianic Jewish Synagogue in Rochester, New York called “Shema Yisrael.” It was very successful, but then God lead you step by step to be involved in what I consider the most exciting sign of the return of Jesus since the formation of modern day Israel. Tell me about that.
Jonathan: I think what we saw in Russia, were the first fruits of an outpouring that going to hit the Jewish people in an incredible way until all Israel is saved as it says in Roman’s Chapter 11. But I had this desire planted in me around 1988 to travel to Russia and I was able to bring a team of five people there in May of 1990. Sid in six days of ministering to Jewish people in the former Soviet Union in Moscow and St. Petersburg I lead more Jewish people to the Lord than in six years of ministry in the United States. I came home obviously fired up knowing that this was going to be a mission field for me, but never expecting that I would actually move to Russia; I continued traveling back and forth meeting with Jewish believers bringing some humanitarian aid. And in 1992 I went to Kiev with Alyosha Ryabinov, he was invited, a good friend of ours a concert pianist, he was involved music school in Kiev. And asked me if I would share the gospel after this recital for his family and friends; about 200 people there and afterward I got up and I shared a brief testimony, I invited people to come forward to pray to receive the Lord and about 90% rushed to the front. I said, “Something’s going on here,” and from that involved this idea to do this huge, what turned into huge outreach festivals of Jewish music and dance.
Sid: Now Jonathan, I remember you telling me this vision if you will of what to do there, but your plans were so grandiose that when you talk to a lot of the Messianic Jewish leaders, in fact I remember being in a meeting where you described it, they were very discouraging, but I thought it sounded wonderful.
Jonathan: Well, it was so, we had already rented by that time this is why it made it so difficult it was a prayer meeting that you and I attended, a prayer and fasting meeting and I had already by faith rented a 4,000 foot hall. So when a bunch of people, leaders told me it couldn’t work I was pretty discouraged because I had already committed to a 4,000 seat hall and then invited you to come and I think that you were one of the only one’s to encourage me and I invited you to join me and together we experienced probably the largest gather of Jewish people to hear the gospel since the Book of Acts.
Sid: Approximately, how many would you say were in that auditorium?
Jonathan: Well I can tell you exactly, 3650 a night plus standing room only.
Sid: And of course since it was a Jewish music festival that alone insured that most of the people would be Jewish. And I want you to describe, because I was there, but describe with your eyes what happened that first night.
Jonathan: Well, first of all Sid none of us had any idea how many would come, we had been told by a number of leaders in the Jewish community, “You can forget about Jewish people coming because they’ll be afraid to gather because there is so much anti-Semitism.” So none of us had any idea how many would even come. The first shock was that they had to close the doors because the place was packed full about forty-five minutes before the concert even began, so we were totally packed. The next thing was wondering how they would respond. Well from the minute that the music started they were elated. These were people hungry for their Jewish identity, hungry spiritually and when I came out and shared my testimony, I don’t even remember the experience well Sid, it was very surreal, I was just caught up in this incredible anointing but I shared my testimony briefly. And then at the end I invited people to come down to pray to receive Yeshua, Jesus, and to my, all of our amazement, not a few people trickled down, but about 80 or 90% of the auditorium stood to their feet and literally rushed down, that’s why they call them Russians…
Sid: Ha-ha, if you weren’t going to say that I was going to say it, because I never saw an altar call like that before. I never saw people running to come forward, ever.
Jonathan: Our team was weeping, I was holding back the tears, but about 85% came down. I could see people weeping in the front, raising their hands, praying with sincerity and inviting Jesus the Messiah of Israel to come into their lives. It was one of the most amazing experiences I’ve ever had in my life and I know you feel the same way when you ministered there.
Sid: Well, that’s the way I feel it was absolutely the second most historic time in God’s history since the reestablishment of the modern State of Israel to see so many Jewish people running to the altar. And now you went on history now tells you went on to have many of these festivals. Give me some bottom lines, approximately how many people attended and how many Jewish people made professions of faith?
Jonathan: Well Sid, in the twenty festivals we did through the 90s and into the early part of 2004 we saw about half a million people come face to face, and millions more that watched on television and in some cases we broadcast live around the country. But we estimated about 60% or 65% were Jewish and we know this from the follow-up cards that we collected, and we probably saw upwards of 100,000 Jewish people respond to the gospel and altar calls. And keep in mind also Sid, that we started congregations in each city so now we have at least fifteen Messianic Jewish Congregations in the former Soviet Union. In fact the largest Messianic Congregation, in the world is in Kiev that was started as a result of the outreach there in 1994 that we did and people are continuing on with their faith. Sid we saw football stadiums in the mid 90’s filled with Jewish people that knowing that they were going to hear the gospel and I think that it’s important to explain to those that are listening why this is directly directed to end-time prophecy, can I do that?
Jonathan: In the Bible, it’s clear that the Jewish people play a key role not just in the first coming of the Messiah, but in the return in the Messiah. And in Roman’s 11:25 and other places, but in Romans 11:25 is one of the clearest scriptures it says that there is a blindness that’s happened to Israel in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and then all Israel will be saved. Then the verse that follows says the Redeemer, or the deliver, will come forth to Zion and turn away ungodliness from Jacob. Bottom line here paraphrased, is that Jesus is coming back when Israel says “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.” The Jewish people are the final event before Messiah returns; the Jewish people coming to faith in the Messiah, the blinders coming off of their eyes and the national repentance of Israel.
Sid: But you know what the tragedy is Jonathan? That so many Gentiles Christians are missing their call for the last days and one of the reasons is that they don’t understand the last days. And that’s why I’m so pleased to release your brand new book “A Rabbi Looks at the Last Days” because there is such fuzziness involved and people just don’t understand their destiny…
Sid: And I want everyone everywhere to take one third of their life while they’re sleeping and be able to have dreams from God that they totally understand. My guest Mark Virkler has just put together a three CD set, five sessions and a workbook, titled “Hear God through Your Dreams.” And he believes that anyone that goes through this teaching in the tense tough times that are coming on planet earth are going to get redirection of jobs; are going to get Devine protection; Devine inspiration; solutions to problems; escape disasters. Can you image you are literally going to be excited before you go to sleep. Mark are you excited with expectation before you go to sleep that God’s going to speak to you?
Mark: I am and I tell my spirit to work on different things, if I got a problem that I’m in need of solving I ask for my heart to work on that and for God to give revelation. If I’m struggling to give counsel I ask for that, because I know my heart through dreams will work on that all night long and give me an answer to the question that I posed to it before I go to sleep at night.
Sid: Can you give me an example of someone that perhaps had a supernatural warning from God about something awful that would happen in their life; I mean a real life experience?
Mark: I can, it’s a lady that I talk to she’s actually part of our School and she’s in the California prison system currently serving a life sentence. She had grown up in California and her family moved her away when she was a young girl and in her teen years she wanted to go back to California and she received a dream at night and she shared this with me over the phone, she received the dream at night where the Lord clearly showed her if she went back to California she would go to prison. And she ignored that dream and she went back to California, she got involved in drugs. Her roommate was in drugs with her she actually killing or purposely killing her roommate alright when she was on drugs, she was tried for it and she is now spending doing a life prison sentence because she did not honor the counsel and the warning that God had given to her through a dream.
Sid: You know, God is such a good God that I believe he is speaking to us so clearly in dreams if we only understood the language. Speaking of understanding the language you had just touch a little bit about you approach symbolism different than just about anyone that I know. To me the way you approach it is easier and makes more sense than the way that most people do because each of us has different meanings to different symbols so therefore God can’t use the same symbol for everyone and say this is what it means as many people take that approach. Let’s take you, your about ready to go to sleep at night, you told me you have a pad next to your bed on a little table with a pencil ready to right down whatever God shows you; give me an example, and by the way that’s an act of faith in itself, that means you’re expecting to use it being pragmatic as I am I wouldn’t want to put that there if I wasn’t going to use it. Alright, what would you pray before you go to bed and take me kind of step by step of what occurs?
Mark: Whenever I go to sleep I’m going to lay there and I’m going to say, “Lord, will you give me a dream tonight?” A simple one line prayer, but, “Lord would you give me a dream tonight?”
Sid: I’m reminded of the scripture that “You have not because you ask not because you ask not.” But what happens if someone says Lord, would you give me a dream tonight and they wake up the next morning and they did not have a dream and maybe this goes on for a couple of nights? Most people would give up.
Mark: Well, okay if your heart wakes you up within five minutes of the dream ending you will recall the dreams. So you need to let your heart know that you want it to wake you up and you do that by saying, “I take dreams seriously, I believe they’re a message from God and I want God to speak to me through the dream. That’s a signal to your heart saying wake me up. When you put your paper next to your bed, that’s your signal to your heart saying, “Wake me up.” When your heart does wake you up you then immediately record your dream, you don’t say I’ll get it in the morning because you’ll forget it. You’ll immediately record it, that’s a signal to your heart saying I’m taking you seriously.
Sid: Now, I’m a little concerned about what you just said, Mark because I don’t want to be so alert that I’m woken up right after I have the dream, let’s suppose I have it not just as I wake up, but in the middle of the night, I’m afraid that’ll wake me up and get my mind active again. What do you think about that?
Mark: Well, you’re going to have your dream during the light sleep period anyway so you’re going to be almost awake anyway you won’t be totally groggy when you wake up. And if you wake up and you just take four or five minutes and you jot down the essence or the symbols and basic things of the dream you can drift right back off to sleep again and you can ask God to put you back to sleep. I mean you can ask for these kinds of things, He’ll honor those things and He’ll do it, alright.
Sid: Okay, so alright you’ve asked, you’ve received, you write down your dream on a piece of paper then what?
Mark: And then when I’m up in the morning and ready to interpret the dream I’m going to ask okay, what does that symbol mean and what does this symbol mean and what does this symbol mean to me and I’m going to a tune to flow once I ask the question, I’m going to go back and picture the dream, ask the question, “What’s the key action, what’s the key motion, what are the key symbols. I’m going to a tune to flow because I know that God’s voice sounds like flowing thoughts and flowing pictures out of my inner most being shall flow rivers of living water.
Sid: The key that you have is that you expect the Holy Spirit to do the interpretation rather than a book of formulas.
Mark: Exactly, that’s exactly right and the Holy Spirit will do the interpretation you know and He does it through the voice of God which comes to you through flowing thoughts and flowing pictures.
Sid: All right give me, if you will because I’m kind of like you, I want things in a logical order; give me some keys to hearing God’s interpretation of my dream.
Mark: Alright, well you want to quiet yourself down, you’re going to picture the dream; you’re going to ask the question, “What does this symbol mean; you are going to attune to flowing thoughts and then you’re going to write down the flow that comes back to you trusting that’s it’s the Holy Spirit in your heart communicating that to you. And of course once you have written out you’re interpretation you can bounce it off your spouse and your spiritual friends to make sure that they feel good that you’ve got the right interpretation. But those are the basic steps that I would take in interpreting the dream. And I would ask like, “What’s the key, what’s the key action of the dream? What’s the emotion of the dream?” If the key action is I’m falling then, I’ll say where in my life, yesterday was I falling, because the dream came out of yesterday, of what I was wrestling with. And I may say, “I know where I was falling.” I believe God was going to do this thing in my life and He didn’t do it and my faith was shook and I felt like I was shattered and I was falling into unbelief and doubt.” Alright the dream showed that I was flying like a bird, I’d say okay, yesterday where was I flying; and I said I know where, man I was just so free in the Spirit; the bonds of sin were broken; I was soaring in the Spirit it was an awesome day. So you ask where in my life am I experiencing that symbol right now? And then you write down what you receive back from the Lord. So you’re the key, the emotion of the dream, you want the key emotion and you want also the key action of the dream. You want those two written down.
Sid: Does it matter at all if the dreams are in black and white or Technicolor?
Mark: I don’t believe it matter at all, you know I’ve heard people suggest that it does but when I go back to the Bible there is no teaching on it either way alright, so the Bible is not going to need to clarify it. When I look at my own experience when I began to work with dreams I was a left brainer so my stuff was pretty black and white. And now I have moved over to the right side and so my dreams are more full color; so I just think it’s the way that we’re wired.
Sid: What if it’s a dream that you’re in it as opposed to a dream that you’re an observer; does that make a difference?
Mark: I think that that does tend to indicate one thing verses another. When Pharaoh was watching seven skinny cows and watching seven fat cows, he was just an observer of the action; it wasn’t it wasn’t really about stuff taking place in his heart, it was about the next fourteen years of his kingdom. So I think when we’re observers of the action of the dream that’s an indication that it’s about something outside of my heart. Something out there in real life that maybe is going to happen, where if I’m a participant in the action then it’s about struggle going on inside of my heart that I need to resolve and wrestle with.
Sid: Now, you’ve explained that the principal of dreams showed the screams of an unhealed heart, what do you mean by that?
Mark: Well, you know in my, you know I had a fifteen year dream you know and it didn’t go away and it was a scream of an unhealed heart saying look, you have fear down here. And you need to heal this fear and I’m going to come and show you that fear every single night in a dream until you come and apply some inner healing prayer, some deliverance prayer, whatever it takes and once you get it resolved then the scream is going to go away and you will not have that dream any more from that point on.
Sid: Mark, tell me one dream in your life that really made a difference.
Mark: Well, how about if I give you a dream from my wife’s life, from Patti’s. She went to bed mad this night and she said, she doesn’t remember why she was mad she just knew that she had a right to be angry and she was. And so in the dream she opens up the door to her house and there is a bull like a cartoon character bull standing outside on his hind feet; takes his front feet and knocks her glasses off her face and steps on them and crushes them. So she wakes up and she asked the question, well what emotion does a bull represent to me? And she said, “Well, I would usually put the word, angry with the bull, an angry bull.” So the bull is talking about anger, which she went to bed angry. And what’s the main action of the dream, the main action is he knocks the glasses off her face and crushes them. So what does that action symbolize? Well, it’s going to destroy your ability to see clearly and so the interpretation is when I open the door to anger in my life, I lose my ability to see things clearly. And that’s wonderful counsel saying you may have a right to be angry, but you don’t want to be angry because it’s going to devastate and wreck your life.
Sid: So you can be angry and the Bible says, sin not, but the more that you’re angry you just distort your vision; and who wants to have distorted vision.
Sid: Red hot is an understatement for my guest, I know I keep saying that, but it’s true in her case, her name if Kathie Walters, she has been a guest previously. And the first thing she said to me is “Last weekend something unusual came forth.” What happened?
Kathie: Well, I do not know how to describe it, it’s very hard, but it’s like as if Heaven just came down closer. And then there was like a manifestation, people begin to feel rain, some of them and then like wind. And then which has been like three days ago, people have been emailing me from all over saying “They’re experiencing things that they’ve never experienced before.” Lots of like different perfumes, manifestations and God talking to them and that.
Sid: Do you know what’s kind of interesting and when I think about you I think about the gold dust that frequently accompanies you as you minister or just in secular life. But I’ve had this happen once before but a couple times but it hasn’t happened for years. But a couple weekends ago I was in church and just worshipping God and my wife looked at my seat when I stood up and it was coated with gold dust. I’m wondering if that isn’t part of what’s going on right now, something new is on planet earth; something new has been released.
Kathie: I believe it’s the beginning of an old prophecy that came forth in England in 1930 and I believe if you have that prophecy where it said that the wind would breathe…
Sid: Well, why don’t I read it verbena.
Kathie: Read it, yeah.
Sid: There shall come a breathe and the breathe shall bring the wind and the wind shall bring the rain and the rain shall bring the floods and the floods and the floods and the floods shall bring the torrents and torrents and torrents. So shall they be saved like falling leaves from the mighty oaks swept by a hurricane in a great forest. Arms and legs shall come down from heaven and there shall be no ebb.
Kathie: Ooo that’s awesome isn’t it, but I believe that started.
Sid: I believe that also and it’s almost like they’ll be a move of… I don’t know if there’s like a brief moment so to speak of where God’s having mercy on earth before the return of Messiah or whether it’s something that is going to be long term until the Messiah returns. My hunch is it’s a short window, they usually are.
Kathie: That prophecy sounds like kind of a long thing though that got its momentum, but definitely between last week and this week just recently it’s like heaven has come down closer because everybody is getting all these manifestations of the perfume of the Lord and oil and honey and all kinds of things. People that don’t normally, people that usually say “Well, that’s for him and her because they’re more spirit kind of people,” but everyone is beginning to experience this, it’s like it’s just come down closer to the earth, I don’t know how to explain it, but I am so excited.
Sid: Well, for those that aren’t familiar with you, we’re going to review just a little bit. You backslide from the Lord, you weren’t really Spirit Filled, but you backslid from the Lord, you went to Australia you get yourself involved with the mafia and one day you heard angels sing. Tell me about that day.
Kathie: Well, I had lots of theology, wonderful theology, but I did run away and I did backslide and I was engaged to someone in the mafia and I had kind of a good time in the world recent. One day this anointing fell on me and of course I never heard of the anointing so I didn’t know what that was. But the presence of God and then I heard angels singing and old English hymn, “Oh love that won’t let me go” it’s just wonderful and then the presence of God just got stronger and stronger and then the Lord spoke to me and He said, “Kathie I’ll never let you go.” And then I saw like a flash of angels and then I had a vision of Jesus on a white horse. But of course at the time I didn’t believe in visions so I didn’t quite know what to do with it you know. Ha-ha. But I had it and then this anointing came on me and everyone I spoke to got saved.
Sid: I’m wondering if the new move of God’s Spirit if you’re not going to and everyone listening to us is now going to experience that same sort of thing. I mean the manifestations of the angels, the supernatural and just an open heaven for salvations.
Kathie: Yeah, that’s what I’ve been saying, people have been emailing me the last few days; people who never usually experience anything much supernaturally. But every, all kinds of people have been having tremendous, they’ve even said “I’ve never had this before.” “I’ve never smelt these aromas before.” “I’ve never felt these touches before.” “I’ve never had oil before on my hands.” And so I believe it’s just, ooo it’s just coming down out of heaven really.
Sid: So making a long story short you immediately left Australia, left the mafia went back home, married David,
Sid: But you got involved in a group of people that revival hit and that changed your life forever. Tell me about that.
Kathie: Well, it was a group I was already a part of that specialized in personal evangelism and I knew there was something more because I had that experience in Australia and the people around me, we were hungry. It was a very worldly bunch of people; they were actors and chorus girls and people like that and so we begin to seek the Lord. We didn’t know what we were seeking for, but something, we knew there was something. And anyway this revival just hit us, the presence of God and the glory of God just came on us and people just kept coming from everywhere, everywhere. We didn’t know anything; we knew how to sing some songs and the glory of God just fell on us for several years. And people were just, people would knock at the door of house and we would open the door and they would just fall out under the power of God and we’d have to drag them in by their feet, ha-ha. And then when we moved into the town hall we’d have to tell people, “When you come to the meetings there may be people laying outside in the street under the power of God and just step over them.” And he glory of God just rested on the people and I think the key was that it was everybody and it wasn’t just one or two people on the platform.
Sid: And you know I have been pushing and pushing for that in our own prayer meeting of Messianic Vision staff and it’s just starting to happen. It’s just, we had a prayer meeting yesterday that was so good no one wanted to leave the power of God was so awesome. But one of the keys Kathy and you’re talking about it is a message came forth but it came forth from multiple people that did confer with one another. It was so wonderful to see the Holy Spirit operate through the Body verses the one man show.
Kathie: Yes, that’s what made it so powerful because God used everyone and you know sometimes when visitors came it didn’t matter where they sat because the person next to them would just tell them their name. And even the kids in the public schools, they’re going to the schools and the power of God just flowed like a river. David would go into the schools and they would have to close the schools sometimes because the kids would be just laid out in the corridors and on the plain it was under the power of God. And there was nothing they could co except close the schools for that day.
Sid: You also told me that if someone was involved in sin they couldn’t get away with it like many people feel they can today. And by the way, that’s another thing that’s going to happen sin is going to start being revealed. But what would happen at your group?
Kathie: Well, I remember and this was like fairly regularly, but I remember once this young evangelist got up and he said “There’s three people here that are actually in adultery and I’ll give you two minutes to stand up and if you don’t I’ll come and stand in front of you.” Well, people shot to their feet and the people around them prayed for them and we just carried on with the meeting. Well there was no condemnation or like judgment from us you know what I mean, it just was the word of God that came out from God and the word did its own work.
Sid: It’s a whole different level.
Kathie: A whole different level.
Sid: It’s not in the flesh, it’s in the Spirit and once someone is convicted in the spirit you don’t have to poke your finger at them, God’s done a pretty good job.
Kathie: That’s right and we just love them, it was just awesome and people, drug dealers were instantly delivered, the kids would pray for them. And people high, way out on drugs were instantly delivered when the children put their hands on them. So, I just saw, we just saw God moving powerfully on the whole body, everybody. Sometimes the elders and leaders didn’t speak for weeks because God was moving so powerfully through the body.
Sid: Kathy, I’m making avail this week your two CD teaching which was really a special teaching on faith and angels and how faith operates. I mean God has really taught you some lessons and then your booklet, “Angels Watching over You” but I have to ask you the question, “Why another book on angels?” I mean does the world need a book on angels, there’s plenty of books on angels?
Kathie: Well, I don’t know I just felt to put my own experiences of it because I’m just ordinary you know and I’m a Princess and I’m watchy but I’m an ordinary person. And I wanted people to be able to relate that they can have the same thing I am no one special or anything like that. I also went through the scriptures so that people could see in the Bible what angels did because people have funny connation of angels.
Sid Roth: Why is there such misunderstanding of angels? I mean if you talk to the average Christian number one they haven’t seen an angel, number two they haven’t felt and angel, number three they haven’t experienced an angel. Why is there such ignorance?
Kathie: I think that it’s religious spirits really, that have given people a funny impression of angels. Can I back up a little bit because you know me quite well, you know I believe the realm of the Spirit, the supernatural realm and angels, heavenly visitations, all those wonderful things are supposed to be; meant to be a normal part of the life every Christian. They only thing that they have to do is to believe it. Because everything in the Spirit realm we receive by faith and not by works. Most people have been taught, or it’s been implied…
Sid: What happens when you’re a Baptist minister, you have a love for God, you have a love for people, you get involved in prison ministry, you’re doing it some twenty years. You’ve had thousands of salvations. You’ve been in over 700 prisons and you see the same people getting out of prison and then coming back all the time. There’s got to be something more, were you getting frustrated Don Dickerman and Don by the way I’m speaking to at his home in Bedford, Texas. Don were you getting frustrated or did you just figure that’s the way it is?
Don: I think a little bit of both Sid, frustrated more so as the years went by and as you said, “I would see the same people who I had seen in chapel services and felt like were genuinely born again, get out of prison and not be able to make it on the outside. And you know I think that I was trying to apply the verse of scripture that “Any many be in Christ, he’s a new creature, a new creation and old things are passed away, all things are become new.” And that’s not what I was seeing.
Sid: And of course you were also taught, I mean on the plus side you were given a wonderful background in the word of God, but on the negative side you were taught that the gifts of the spirit are not for today. And so you were also like in a fight with one arm tied behind your back.
Don: That’s true, I don’t know my seminary and church training wasn’t so much that the gifts weren’t available, but they certainly didn’t talk about them. It was a problem because I was seeing things that I knew had a spiritual meaning and had a spiritual answer, but I didn’t know how to apply it and I didn’t and that part was frustrating.
Sid: There was a turning point in your life and it was in Galveston Texas you were taking kind of a break and you were sobbing in your bed. Why were you sobbing?
Don: Well, for the reason that we just talked about, I would see so many people return to prison and I felt like in some respect that that I wasn’t being effective and another respect that the gospel was not being effective and that troubled me. And I remember crawling up in a motel bed and just weeping and my prayer was pretty much, “God, why can’t I be a deliverer? Why can’t I get people out of bondage? And I don’t think I knew exactly what I was praying and asking for, but it was that kind of prayer, what am I missing? And it wasn’t long after that that I had an experience while preaching in a prison, in a federal prison in Three Rivers Texas. And there was an officer, this is really unusual, you know I preached in 850 or more different prisons and experiences are pretty much the same, inmates come to church and they know that they have problems, but in this particular evangelistic service there was an officer seated in the chapel with the men and that’s very unusual, I had never seen that before and he was worshipping with them. And when the service was over he motioned to the officer that was on duty and he said, “I’ll walk him to his car, I want to talk to him.” So as we walked across the grounds of that prison on a beautiful night, he said, “I need to tell you something and I’m going to shorten this story a little bit, but he actually followed me as I was going back to Corpus Christy where I was staying on this particular trip and as I was about to get on the Interstate 37 I pulled up to a little grocery store or service station and he pulled up right behind me and he came up to the car window, he was just bouncing with excitement. And he said, “Brother I need to tell you something, he said that while you were preaching tonight I had a vision and he said, “I saw you standing in a big black pot, and he was describing it with his hands.” And he said, “In this pot there was oil bubbling all around you, not boiling it was just bubbling, and all around this pot he said as far as you could see there was just like a sea of people and the stench from their sickness was nauseating as it went up into the heavens. He said, “That oil began to bubble up and as it ran off of your head down your arms and such,” he said “the people were healed.” And he said, “Get ready brother, God’s fixen to pour it out on you.” Well, that’s even hard for me to talk about now.
Sid: Now, had you ever had anyone ever given you a vision before? Had you ever had a vision?
Don: No that was my first experience.
Sid: That was off your grid through, so did you immediately reject it?
Don: No, I knew I knew it was the Holy Spirit and I knew that it was something I had been longing for, I wanted to see people healed, I didn’t know how to make it happen. But I remember driving back to Corpus, I couldn’t keep the tears out of my eyes and my prayer was “God, I don’t know how to do this.” But there was an assurance that came, “You just keep on doing what you are doing, preach the gospel. And what happened it started happening, people began to be healed in our services and I wouldn’t do anything but preach as I always had. And I would start getting letters from inmates telling me, I know that you don’t know this, but while you were preaching heat came all over me and…
Sid: Well what would you think when people are saying heat comes all over them and they are getting healed and all your doing is speaking, you’re not doing, you weren’t praying for the sick were you?
Don: No, no. I was just preaching, but it was with an anointing I had not really known before. I knew something was happening and it was overwhelming to me, I knew that it was the Holy Spirit and I knew that I hadn’t done anything you know to make it happen. But with it came a boldness that services would go by and I would get these kind of reports, I began to walk in that and speak toward that happening, I believed it was going to happen. And you know I think since that night I could say that there’s not been a service anywhere that we’ve had in prison or out where someone hasn’t experienced healing. And you know as it progressed, I knew it was the Holy Spirit and I was so hungry for putting this in context with what I had been taught and what I had actually never experienced, but I began to see inmates come at the altar call and as I would pray for them, they would fall and sometimes even when I got close to them. And I, you know I didn’t that’s what I had a difficult time with; I didn’t know what that was. I knew about the things that happened in God’s word and how the soldiers fell back and you know I understood those things, but I knew I wasn’t doing anything to make it happen. And it was overwhelming sometimes I would leave the services and I would have to pull over the side of the road and weep with thanksgiving. And then some of the frustrating part of that was coming back to the churches and knowing that it wasn’t going to happen, you know sitting in the congregation and you know saying you know that’s not going to happen here today.
Sid: You know Don many people have a healing ministry and I understand exactly what you are saying and even the frustration of what you’re saying but there are few people that have such a practical balanced deliverance ministry. How did you happen to get into deliverance?
Don: You know sometimes I say, “God tricked me into that,”
Sid: I would think He had to ha-ha.
Don: You know I wasn’t looking for it but in the prison experience I did have many guys come to me and say “Look, I know I have demons, you know can you help me?” And I didn’t, I didn’t really know what to do with that, but I knew that it was real, I knew what Jesus said. And I was in a prison in Canada, a women’s prison in Kingston, Ontario Canada. My wife was with me and a lady came up to me at the altar call she said, “I have demons and I know that you can help me, I know you understand.” That was my first experience and I had met a man Bruce Jenkins, who still has a deliverance ministry in Michigan right outside of Lancing, I had met him and we had talked. So I told this girl that you know I know someone who does deliverance and if you maintain contact with me, we’ll minister through the mail and so on. I’ll get Reverend Jenkins to come up here; we’ll meet and take you through deliverance. Well, that’s a hard process to even get that arranged in a prison, but we did and what happened is Reverend Jenkins wasn’t able to make it, he didn’t show up and I was there and she was ready for deliverance. And so I kind of took a step of faith and I remember praying “God I know what the word says, I know what Jesus did and so we met in a private room in the prison.
Sid Roth: I’ll tell you what, hold that thought right there and I see how God tricked you into deliverance ministry. But the truth of the matter is there are so many people with problems, they’ve prayed and prayed, and prayed and never had any answers and that’s because there’s doors that give legal access to the demonic.
Sid: I have on the telephone Pastor John Kilpatrick, he’s Senior Pastor of Church of His Presence in Daphne, Alabama and your probably familiar with John as a result of the Pensacola Revival, the Brownsville Assembly of God. Father’s Day 1995 and for five years thereafter over 4,000,000 people came from all over the world to that church. Hundreds of thousands made professions of faith, rededicated their life to God, it was a genuine; genuine revival. And I was finding out yesterday that when John was fifteen he had an amazing experience, he was being mentored by his pastor as his father had left his mother. And he was being mentored in prayer, and one night it was a crisis night for the pastor because someone was trying to take over his church. And in came with locked doors, how many locks were on the door John?
John: The locks, there were five of them, and there were pins in the jam at the top; pins in the jam at the bottom, there was a key underneath the doorknob where it was lock, there was a deadbolt and a latch. When the doors popped open, not one broken lock.
Sid: Huh, and the door opened, who marched in?
John: And two angels came in, two huge angels and they filled the sanctuary from the top to the bottom. I’ve never seen beings that big, they wasn’t dressed in white like angels, they didn’t have wings, these were warrior looking angels. They had no weapons, they never said a word to us, we never said a word to them, they just appeared and they left the doors open. And one was standing in the back where pastor always prayed and the other one was standing on the other side, the opposite side of the building. And as I looked at them, in my fifteen year old mind, I just was in shock; I could not believe that my eyes were seeing beings that big from heaven.
Sid: Were you and the pastor the only ones that saw the angels?
John: There was seventeen of us there that night.
Sid: And all seventeen saw the angels?
John: Every one of us saw it; everyone of us saw it. And as a matter of fact, after they left we went back, we went back to the back, or the pastor got up to be the back to walk to the back to shut the doors, I know that’s where he was going and we all just fell in behind him because it was a little bit spooky to honest with you. So as he got up to go out there and shut the doors we were all with him, but when we got to that area where the power of God came in that building where those angels came in; there was so much power there. It was my first confrontation with the power of God in my life. I was fifteen and there was so much of the power of God there in that foyer in the back of that sanctuary we collapsed, your legs it was like sticking fire to butter; you couldn’t stand up; we just collapsed. Just, I remember I came to the next morning and I guess it was around six o’clock right at sun up and I was lying beneath a man’s knees, beneath a man’s knees and his ankles; we all just collapsed like you just placed fiddles sticks you know. It’s like God played fiddles sticks with us and we just collapsed right there where we were and didn’t come awake until the next morning when the sun came up.
Sid: What was going on inside of your mind?
John: Well, the first thing that I heard was when I came awake was that I heard the traffic on Second Avenue in front of the church and those church doors were still open all night long. And I remember Pastor saying, “Look boys,” he said, “The locks aren’t even damaged.” And the power of God hit those doors and it reminds me of the scripture in the Bible where it says that Peter was going to the outer gates and the gates opened on their own accord.
Sid: Now did you go to school the next morning, out of curiosity?
John: Do you know what, I don’t even remember.
Sid: But, alright that was Sunday night after service and you’re up there all night long and then you have your normal Wednesday night service. What happened after that visitation of the two angels?
John: Evidently the word got around, you know seventeen people there, evidently the word got around so that Wednesday night the church was packed out. Now we prayed again on Monday night, Tuesday night and that Wednesday night; we prayed every single night. I prayed with Pastor every night for years without missing a single night, every night for years, seven nights a week. But on Wednesday night when it came time for regular service the church was packed. And we had an uneventful service, back in those days we didn’t have what you call a worship service, we had what you call a song service. And nothing eventful happened during the song time and when the pastor called the ushers forward to receive the offering, he said “Bow your heads for prayer over the offering and when people bowed their heads for prayer for the offering, the power of God moved in that place like it did when the angels came in that Sunday night and thirty-eight people fell out of their seats into the floor and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and many of them had sought the Holy Spirit all their life and could never get it and went right through to it.
Sid: What, they fell out of their seat probably praying in unknown tongues I can envision.
John: I’m sure they probably did, but they just were in the floor and went right through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And one thing it proved to me Sid was those angels when they came into that church, they never lifted a finger; they never said a word; just their presence broke the back of all of that trouble that was going on in that church; and they changed that atmosphere just by showing up there.
Sid: Now I asked you this question before we went on the air, as you know I was out many times to Pensacola to the Brownsville Assembly of God and you may not remember this but the exact spot that you are hit with the power of God on Father’s Day June 1995 you pointed it out to me and I just took a little and I put it on that spot and I sat there for a couple of hours just being still before the Lord. But the presence, I tasted the presence at Brownsville, how was that presence in comparison to what you experienced as a fifteen year old when those two angels came and then that Wednesday night service and then thereafter?
John: Well, I would say that it was a magnification of that presence because what happened that night when we gathered on Wednesday night after the angels showed up was really the first time that I saw that kind of a breakthrough. And what happened on Father’s Day of ’95 was a magnification or a multiplication of that same freedom. The presence of God is the same, but when the presence of God comes in a dose that you’re not familiar with it feels like, whenever you experience that that’s all God’s got to offer. But what we experienced on Father’s Day I come to learn later was just a dose that church could bear up under at that time because you have to actually get actuated to the presence of God to be able to bear up under it. If God gave you all of His presence it would just totally destroy you. But God gives you a dose; he prescribes a dose for an individual or a congregation just as to what they can stand and bare up under it. But what it felt like on Father’s Day was all God had to offer, but later we come to understand it was just a dose and that there was much more to come and there was a different levels that He was going to take us into in the next five years of revival.
Sid: John, are we going to experience revival in America?
John: You know, I believe we are, I really do believe we are. You know, after you’ve experienced something like that Sid, it ruins you, it ruins you. You can never be satisfied with church as usual again. And God touched millions of people from all over the world during that period of time and those people are languishing out there; because once you’ve been touched you’re never the same. What you’ve put your feet under the table of revival; no other table will ever satisfy you. And there’s a hunger today in the hearts of congregations. I believe many times congregations maybe more hungry than their pastor is. And there’s a hunger in congregations out there today; and people leave church many times on Sundays and they’re not dissatisfied with their church or dissatisfied with their pastor; they’re unsatisfied and there’s a difference. They’re unsatisfied, it means that they didn’t get what their soul needed; they didn’t feel or experience in that service what their soul was craving. You see the glory is not the anointing; there’s three different levels I would call it. The blood everybody understands the blood; the blood is God’s detergent for sin; you’ve got to have the blood to be saved. You’re born again, you’re washed in the blood; you have a born again experience. That’s the first level. The second level is the anointing comes upon you; the anointing is God’s authorization on a person’s life to do the works of the ministry in the earth. That’s a good definition of the anointing. God’s authorization on a person’s life to do the works of the ministry in the earth; but when you get passed the blood; you get passed the anointing, then your talking about the glory of God. And the glory of God is the Kabod; it’s the manifest presence of God and the presence of God is what people crave; it’s what Adam and Eve had in the Garden of Eden before they sinned. They were always naked in the Garden of Eden, always but when they sinned, the glory lifted off of them and that’s why they started grabbing for fig leaves and they pulled those leaves next to them to try to hide their nakedness because they had sin. But mankind ever since that time that they sinned in the Garden and the glory lifted off of them they have been searching; man’s been searching; his soul has been searching for that weighty presence again. And they tried sex, they tried drugs; they’ve alcohol; they’ve tried religion; they tried new houses; they’ve tried new cars, money, investments, all kinds of things but none of it will bring you the presence and the weightiness of the presence of God like we’re created for. That’s what we’re created for, it’s His presence.
Sid: God, you’ve had several very significant prophetic visions…on the first day of ’09 you received a prophetic, actually would you call it a vision or a prophetic word of twelve points of what is going to happen starting this year that is absolutely amazing. Tell me about that night.
John: Well, on the first day this year my wife and I went into a restaurant to eat and after we had ordered the waiter walked back up to me and said, “Your meal has been paid for, someone in the restaurant has paid for your meal. And I said, “Thank you very much, so when he turned to walk away I was startled because when he turned to walk away I heard the Holy Spirit say to me, “I’m going to give you a word a prophetic word and it has twelve letters in it.” And immediately my mind tried to summons the word that had twelve letters in it and I thought I liked the word supplication or something like that. And I heard the Holy Spirit say, “Oh, no, no, no I’ll give you the word. He said, “The word is resurrection.” I
Sid: In other words each letter, which are twelve letters stands for a word and each word stands for a whole prophetic insight into what’s happening in the United States.