SID: Hello, Sid Roth your investigative reporter here with Surprise Suthole. Surprise is from South Africa, but you were actually raised in Mozambique.
SURPRISE: I was born and raised in Mozambique in the little village of Matambala.
SID: And your parents were witches?
SURPRISE: My parents were witches, yes.
SID: Tell me, all of a sudden you heard a voice and what did this voice tell you?
SURPRISE: Suddenly one night the voice came to me and said Surprise wake up and move from your home.So I tried to resist it that night the second time the voice came loud, very loud as it was shaking the mat that Iwas sleeping on.So I couldn’t resist by the second time Ijust took my schoolbooks, I was 15 years old by that time and I went to the house of my friend Gufari.He was a Muslim and I told him what had happened to me that night.He said ok I’ll go with you wherever you go.We left our homes that night and we went away.We walked a walk of two weeks to the direction of Malawi.
SID: Did you know where you were going? Or did you just walk?
SURPRISE: No we didn’t know.
SID: For two weeks!?
SURPRISE: …didn’t know where we were going and we didn’t have money to eat.We didn’t take enough changes of clothing
SID: So why’d you pay attention to this voice?
SURPRISE: Well even though I didn’t know by that time that was the voice of God,I just knew that I was pulled out of my home.
SID: Well, ok.So you get to this city after 14 days and what happened?
SURPRISE: After 14 days we arrived at Malawi.So we arrive and find one man, his name is Lucas the man that invited us to his house.When we arrived at his house he gave us water to drink and then to take a shower, food to eat, and then we slept.The next day the man asked us where we came from and where are we going?And then we explained to the man what had happened for us that week and then the man lead us to the Lord.I gave my life to Jesus first and my friend as a Muslim, Gufari, he also gave his life to Jesus.
SID: Now what happened to your parents?
SURPRISE: After I gave my life to Jesus,I tried to contact the home and found out that the week that I left home my mother, my father, and my sister died.
SID: How did they die?
SURPRISE: How they died,I don’t know because up to now it’s 20 years that I’ve never put my foot into my village.
SID: So if you had been there and not listened to that voice of God, you would have been dead.
SID: Now I have to tell you something.
SURPRISE: Go ahead.
SID: I have taken in high school and in college foreign languages; and languages are very difficult for me.
SID: So, you know in the Bible, it says that the gentile is to provoke the Jew to jealousy.You succeeded Surprise!You have made me jealous.Can you really speak 13 languages you’ve never been taught?
SURPRISE: Exactly.That’s why I’m speaking English to you.EnglishI’ve never gone to school.
SID: You’ve never had a lesson?
SURPRISE: And it just came to me supernaturally.
SID: These 13 languages, can you write them?
SURPRISE: I can write them all, I can read them all very good without a problem
SID: Listen, that is unfair! I protest!
SURPRISE: I can dream in them as well.
SID: You mind if I give you a test?
SURPRISE: Go ahead.
SID: Would you write something on this piece of paper?
SID: That is… Was it instant or gradual? Was it instant or gradual?
SURPRISE: This was very instantly.
SID: Tell me some of the other languages you speak and read, or read.
SURPRISE: This one that I wrote, that is Zulu.
SID: I thought I didn’t understand it.Zulu, I don’t speak too much Zulu myself.
SURPRISE: That in Zulu, it says Nyabonga it means thank you very much.
SID: Ah ha; now tell me some other languages that are more well-known even.
SURPRISE: Well-known is Teecheewah.
SID: Oh that’s really well known I’ve never heard of that, I’m sorry any other languages?
SURPRISE: other languages, Tsonga, Shongon, Ronga, Swazi.
SID: How did you learn these languages? Did it just happen? Did you ask to learn them?
SURPRISE: What happened is that after I gave my life to Jesus; from there I went to Lucas’s house and we jumped to Malawi.So when I went to Malawi so when I went to Malawi the Lord supernaturally gave me the language of Malawi and I started speaking.A few days later I was going back to Mozambique; not to my village but to where my sister was married.So from there we went to the border of Malawi called Zoway.We reached it that was the time of war so they said no. We don’t have any transportation today that goes to Teta city so you have to wait here until maybe they’ll escort you; which are the Zimbabwean soldiers coming to escort all the trucks from Malawi to Teta up to Zimbabwe.
SID: All the trucks…
SURPRISE: Yes and then after the third day the escort came.We jumped, it’s wet the Lord again protected my life supernaturally.I was in one of the trucks we are just going from the border to Teta city and then we travel about 40 miles which is 60 kilometers from the border.The truck where I was ran over a land mine.The truck flies as a bird.
SID: Did you get that? On a land mine!There’s no way to survive that is there?
SURPRISE: And everyone died and the Lord saved my life.
SID: Well the Lord was saving him a lot of times; wait ‘‘til you find out about the dead people that have come back to life and what they’ve had to say.We’ll be right back after this word.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I love the rarified air of Heaven on Earth. And I’m at the Mobile Convention Center, and I’m here with Nathan Morris. And Nathan, I had heard what was going on here, but I want to get to know you. And what’s going here? Lightening has struck twice with Pastor John Kilpatrick. You’ve heard about the great move of God’s spirit. I mean, four and a half million people went through a little church in Pensacola, Florida because God was there, and the same thing has happened here in Mobile, Alabama. Now tell me about your background. Your father’s a pastor and what I’ve heard a lot about PK’s, that’s pastors’ kids, is they go through their period of rebellion, and you went through your period of rebellion.
NATHAN: I certainly did, yes. I grew up in church. I used to sit on the back rows of church as most PK’s do, and I used to listen to my dad preaching, and I used to hear the Gospel ever single week of my life. But by the time I was 16, 17, I had already begun to hang around with the wrong people, got the wrong kind of friends. And really there came a time when my mum and dad lifted that kind of, “You got to go to church.” You know, I was coming of age and I began to not want to go to church any more. I had no desire to be there. It’s all I had ever known. And very quickly I began to get involved with things I really shouldn’t have. I began, you know, drinking occasionally and maybe smoking. And those things as a young boy, I didn’t realize at the time that that would lock me down into addiction and bondage, really.
SID: But you had a bigger problem than that. You know what your bigger problem was? He had a father that was praying for him. And one day his father comes back with, yeah–[applause]–
His father comes back with some DVDs from the Brownsville Revival. Number one, why did you even watch them in the mess you were in?
NATHAN: The thing is I didn’t want to watch them.
SID: I’m sure.
NATHAN: I had no desire to watch them. But my mum and dad went for a holiday in America and they were walking down the street and there was a lady on a T-shirt on saying, “Jesus”. And this lady looked at my father and my mother and said, “You got to go to Brownsville. There’s a revival.” And what she didn’t know is that mum and dad had prayed for a revival all my life. They hungered for the presence of God. They hungered for the glory of God. We were a Pentecostal church. We spoke in tongues. But there was always a cry in my parents’ heart that Lord, there’s more. There’s more that you got for your church. But I was so far away from God. I was living out of wedlock with a girl down in the south of England. But I used to come home to visit my mum and dad, and it just so happened that when I came into the living room that my dad would be playing Brownsville DVDs with Steve Hill.
SID: No ulterior motive.
NATHAN: No, no, none at all. And I used to sit there like I wasn’t watching it. But really, I used to feel the presence of God and I’d have tears rolling down my cheeks, and I’d wipe them away and I’d want to get out of there. I just needed to get out of there as soon as I could. But God was already arresting my heart. He was already showing me He had a plan for my life.
SID: Tell me about the time you were struck by the presence of God.
NATHAN: I was 22 years old. The habits in my life had taken over my life. I was doing well. I was a graphic designer. I graduated from University. But I had serious addictions in my life. I used to lay in bed at night and say, “If this is life, then I’m sadly disappointed.” And I came home. It was my birthday. I came home and I had gone out with my friends and my mum was working. She worked in gastroenterology. My father was in the prison doing also prison ministry. I was in the house on my own and the Lord visited me in a very powerful way. I went to put a CD in the CD player, and as the song came on the fire of God, what I know to be the fire of God fell on me from the top of my head to the soles of my feet, just put me on the floor.
SID: You’re saying fire. Was it a fire? What was it really?
NATHAN: I described it at that time like someone had just stuck my finger in an electric socket. I thought someone had literally put a candle in my shoe. So powerful. It surged from the top down into feet and back up my body. The only thing I knew I fell onto the floor, and I was shaking under the power of God for about three hours, weeping uncontrollably.
SID: Was this foreign to you? Was this something you had never encountered before?
NATHAN: I had encountered the power of God as a young child, but never, never, ever, ever anything like this. I mean, it consumed me. People say, how did you know it was God? I said to them, believe me, when God’s power comes on you like that you don’t need anybody to introduce him. He introduces himself. You know it’s God.
SID: Okay. Now you told me you felt like there was a weight upon you. Explain that.
NATHAN: It felt like someone placed a boulder on my chest. At times I struggled for breath. My breath became shortened and it was like the weight of God was upon my chest. And the voice, it wasn’t audible, it was inside here. You see, God when He speaks to you can reach a point that no man, nothing can ever reach. And He spoke inside. He said, “I have a work for you to do, but if you go from me today I’ll never call you again. For today, I bring you out from underneath your father’s covering.” And you see, there are people in churches that think that we decide when we’re gonna come to God. And I knew right there and then I’d reached the end of my line. It was decision time.
SID: Do you think after that you could have said no?
NATHAN: I believe God was giving me a decision to make, yeah. I was either gonna, you see, I laid under the power of God with all the addiction in my life, with all the bondage in my life. That was all running through my mind, “But God, but God.” But it was time to make a decision. The Bible says, “Today is the day of salvation.” We’re not guaranteed tomorrow. Today you gotta decide whether you’re gonna serve Christ with all your heart.
SID: You made a decision and a little later you started speaking at your father’s church and there were only a few people. But the miracles started. Tell me the first miracle that happened.
NATHAN: The first miracle was really seeing salvation.
SID: Of course.
NATHAN: That was the first miracle I ever saw. What began to happen is as I began to preach the same fire that fell on me just began to fall on the congregation. People started slipping out of their seats, people that were respected as being Christian serving the Lord for many years. But I recognized it. You see, when God touches you, you recognize when he’s touching someone else, and I recognized that power, the power of the Holy Spirit, that tangible weighty presence of God beginning to touch people in the congregation. They didn’t know fully what was happening. I knew. I was like, Jesus, you’re doing it to them. You’re doing it to them. And that really began when miracles began to happen. People’s deaf ears began to open. Blind eyes began to open. Just miracles began. At the start, I was more shocked than they were. I mean, I was more surprised.
SID: I’m sure. How many people did you start with and how many people–
NATHAN: I started with seven people on a Saturday night in my father’s church. And within 12 months people were driving from all over the United Kingdom, four, five hours. Now for a British person we can get to the top and bottom of our country in about eight hours. So to drive four, five hours to a little church on a Saturday evening, it was a long way.
SID: Speaking of a long way, wait ‘til you find out about a text message that confirmed what God had for his life. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back after this word.
Sid: As I was doing my introduction I was thinking of a conversation I had with a friend just before I did this interview. In this conversation this person was making such a big deal that they might have had some Jewish ancestry five six generations back and I thought to myself, so what. The issue is not whether you are Jewish or Gentile. The issue is not whether you are male or female. There is a role for males and female. There is a role for Jews and Gentiles. And God did not make any mistakes. He set you in the place he wants you to be in the body. But the whole issue is knowing who you are in Jesus. That’s the beauty in the One New Man because you see we each need each other. God created it that way to have the full dwelling place of God. That’s the whole deal and if you’d rather be someone that your not, get some help. Get a life. God knew who you were before you were even formed in your mother’s womb.
Now, my guest Katie Souza has got a series that I’ve been listening to called “The Healing School.” And we have a special bonus called “The Glory Light Healing.” The thing I love about this teaching is that it is almost like there are some missing keys in the revelation of healing. And it’s about time that we start walking in the same power, and the same glory that Jesus had. I can’t wait for her to show you some of the things that God is showing her. Because, I believe there are people listening to us, Katie, right now that when they hear these keys light bulbs are going to go off. Some of them have been waiting years and years to be healed, waiting for this interview. Now, on a previous broadcast, we found out about Katie, and as far as I’m concerned, if you saw the movie “Bonnie and Clyde” Katie was both of them put together. I mean, Katie, these high speed chases and guns and drug labs and running away from the police, and collecting money from people at gun point that owed you money on drug deals. I mean I can picture someday there is going to be a movie. But it goes right back to the line of scripture to him who is forgiven much they love much. I don’t quite understand it, it’s not necessary to be so broken to get such revelation, but it doesn’t hurt, you know. Something about that brokenness that makes us more pliable to hear from God, what do you think about that?
Katie: Indeed, I’m telling you that there is nothing like being locked up in prison to get you sequestered and silent so that you can hear God and He can fill you up with His goodies.
Sid: So, about 2006 you went to a friend of mine who runs the church, Bill Johnson, the Bethel Church in Redding, California. You felt directed by God. You had seen healings, when you were in prison you saw healings. But you knew that was something more so you went to this church what happened to you there?
Katie: Well, God told me to go to Bethel and I didn’t know anything about it because I was an ex-con. I had just got out of prison so, you know it was a big deal for me to get on a plane and go some place that I had never heard of. And when I got there it was like we have been believing that we were going to receive the Matthew 10 anointing that drives out demons and heals the sick. And I got there and found out that Bethel is, of course world famous for the kingdom of Heaven manifesting there on a regular basis. I went because my mother had been very very ill. She had a disease that ate her bones and she had lost many. Her hip and her fingers and her bones had fallen out of her knuckles and she was extremely crippled. We believed that the Lord was going to do something great. So He told me to go.
Sid: And I tell you, I had never heard of such a disease but according to my notes, when she got an artificial body part the disease ate through the artificial body part even.
Katie: Yeah, six months Sid, the one hip was eaten they took it out, they put in the artificial one, six months later she collapsed, they open her back up and it had eaten the plastic parts of the manmade hip.
Sid: So you were desperate to understand healing. So you go out to Bethel, what happened?
Katie: Well, like my second day there God did what He said He was going to do. I’m standing in the service in the front. Two little housewives with their kids clinging to their skirts laid their hands on me. And the liquid power of God filled me up and I knew I had received the Matthew 10 anointing.
Sid: Which allow you to cast out demon and lay hands on the sick and have them recover. So you get back home, you know that God has given you something special. He directed you there. You receive. Now you are coming home and your mother, who you love, who has been suffering. I mean, it really sounds like she was in agony for something like 25 years. You go there, great woman of God, you lay hands on her, what happened?
Katie: Well, I had something I never had before. I suddenly had the switch that turned on and it was like this power generator with this heat started going and flowing inside of me and being released down my arms and out my belly and out my body on to Mom. So, here I am, God had given us sign and wonders saying He was going to do something great. I went, I got the anointing, I’m back I got this generator and I’m totally believing Mom’s going to jump up and be completely healed. I’m praying, I’m releasing and I’m going and nothing happened. And I’m like, what’s going on God. And the next day I pray and nothing happened, and the next day I prayed and nothing happens. But then on that third day, my father had been in the emergency room all day and he had been scheduled for two major operations with his prostate because he had been having trouble with it for years and years. I walked up to him, I laid hands on him and he was healed. So I knew that we had the anointing but there was something that was blocking Mom from receiving and that was when God began to tell me what it was.
Sid: What did He tell you?
Katie: As I sat before Him, He started to explain to me about the order in which Jesus talks about that Matthew 10 anointing. He said, Notice the order and how Jesus presents it. He says, he gave His disciples the anointing to first drive out demons. Then heal the sick. God told me that sometimes you need to remove demonic powers that are hindering the healing before you can then heal the sick. So I’m like oh, I get it God and I run back in there and I start praying for Mom rebuking every demon on the face of the planet off of her and again nothing happened. So I’m like, what is going on with this God? And He said you are doing what you were told. You are fighting the enemy but once again it is about order. You are fighting the demonic kingdom in the wrong order. God began to minister to me how there was an order in the dark realm that it operated like an army. That’s why the man at the tombs told Jesus that his name was legion. Legion is a Roman army term and he knew he was part of an army. And in every army there are ranks. You know, generals, lieutenants, colonels in the United States army. God began to show me. Stop fighting from the bottom up the ranks. Start working your way from the top down. And when He said it to me, I said well show me where the ranks are in scripture. So He took me to Ephesians 6:12, that classic scripture and I was reading it in the Amplified. And as I saw it, I saw the order. It says that we wrestle not with flesh and blood but against the and here’s the order. Gasp bits, the powers and the master spirits. And as I looked at that order I could see that there it was. That was the order I need to fight the demonic kingdom. The first in the order is des pit. What is a des pit? It is a tyrant king and no king is a king unless he has a kingdom underneath him. So who are in these kings’ kingdoms, the next two, in the order. The powers and then the master spirits. The word powers , when you look it up in the Webster’s Sid, it actually means orders of angels, there’s the ranks in the demonic army. And then the last in that army and the lowest rank are the master spirits because to master means to be able to control someone. So those are the spirits that have the ability in some way to control or to harm you. And so as I began to see this order of the demonic kingdom, with the kings at the top and the powers and the master spirits underneath them in their kingdom, the Lord spoke to me again and said if you will learn how to fight and defeat the king then the powers and the master spirit underneath them in their kingdoms will just submit to you. I was like, okay, that’s cool. Where is that in scripture? And He said, it is in the story of David and Goliath. As I went to that story Sid, I saw exactly what God was trying to say to me. That if you fight the demonic kingdom from the top down, you will be successful. And I saw the story starts with the Philistine army and the Israel army lined up in battle array to fight each other. But they were not fighting. The reason why was because each one of those armies had a champion that was covering them. David was fighting for Israel and Goliath was fighting for the Philistine. In this story Goliath himself makes a statement that proves what God was trying to teach me. It says that Goliath will come every day for forty days to challenge the Israelites and every day he would say this Sid. He would go, choose a man from amongst your selves to come down to me. If he is able to fight me and defeat me then we, meaning me and my army will submit to you. And that’s exactly what happened. See Goliath was saying, look I’m the covering for the Philistine army. I’m their champion. If you defeat me then not only will I submit but my entire army.
Sid: So that was the key you got for your Mom. If you could get rid of that ruling king then the whole army backs off. I love it, and as a matter of fact, we have her entire Healing School, six CDs step by step; the missing keys that you’ve been waiting for; the missing revelation that you have been waiting for. That I believe is going to unlock the mystery of you manifesting your healing and you being about to set a lot of people free. She has teaching on soul wounds. She has teaching on the glory and healing. Really missing keys and the thing I love about the teaching. It’s more of a how to than a superstar mentality. Her greatest passion is for you to learn to walk in the same healing that she’s walking in. And we have a bonus that is worth the entire thing. It’s a bonus CD on the Glory Light, Healing from the Glory Light.
Sid: My guest is Julie True. Julie is a modern day psalmist. As a matter of fact, Julie if I was to say to you, what is your purpose in the Kingdom, how would you respond?
Julie: Right now it’s to infiltrate the earth with sounds of healing.
Sid: And that’s why you work a lot in healing rooms and healing rooms around the country use your music in soaking rooms. You know, that’s kind of a new concept for a lot of people, soaking to anointed music. Why don’t you explain what that is.
Julie: To me, soaking is, it always involves music for me. It’s a time to quiet the soul, but to be awakened in the spirit to hear the heart of God in that moment and to interact with Him in a very personal way. And so, it’s like letting go of everything that is in our everyday business and just letting God saturate us. You know, I believe music can actually permeate our cells. The cells of our being and bring change in our bodies and in our spirits and souls and bring healing that way. So that’s what it is for me.
Sid: Well, I believe the light of God just flows into an individual. Jesus is the light of the world and it is sort of like in the sound waves. They penetrate a person when, they vary, so many people like to either sit in a comfortable chair or even most people like to lay on the ground. I know people that are moving so fabulously in this supernatural that they get their revelation; they get their intimacy with God through soaking.
Julie: That’s right. We jokingly say BYOP bring your own pillow. Sometimes when you come to soaking people will be laid out on the floor or some people will be writing in their journals and getting all kinds of revelations from God. But you know, He speaks to us in a still small voice sometimes and so you have to be quiet and you have to quiet your soul. And for me it has been a time of letting God increases my spirit man so that my spirit is the leader and not my soul realm, which is all about my emotions and my will and all that. And so, yeah it changes you and you get closer to the Lord.
Sid: Now I understand your son has all sorts of developmental delays and that must be very hectic for you, Julie.
Julie: Well, yes. I don’t know how anybody can make it with any kind of the things we go through in this life without having communion with God and having connection with God in a spirit to spirit way. But for him, my son, he is all about soaking himself. He loves to have peaceful music and music where he can sing to and it actually helps him speak. That’s one of the things I am noticing that’s helping him be healed is that he can sing much better than he can speak. Because of his speech has been delayed and so I believe God’s healing him through the music and through the process of him even singing along to CD’s, mine and others you know.
Sid: You know what I find fascinating? We interviewed before this interview, a woman that is a counselor in a substance abuse counselor and a number of other specialties in the secular and she is also a Biblical counselor. And the interesting thing is she plays your music and as she plays your music the people are being set free.
Sid: Let’s go to that interview: I have on the telephone, Mari. We’re not using her real name, because she is a state certified substance abuse and mental health counselor from a biblical foundation and she is going to talk about some confidential things. But she saw Julie True on “It’s Supernatural”. Got her music and now she plays the CD “Breathe You In” in the background when she does group counseling or individual counseling. Why do you play that in the background, Marie?
Marie: Well, it basically helps usher in the presence of God in my group settings.
Sid: Tell me a few things that have happened to people that are sitting with this presence of God in the counseling place situation.
Marie: Okay, well the first time I tried this was in a group setting of about twelve people and we were doing an exercise on forgiveness. I had them write down all the people the Holy Spirit was leading them to forgive, as kind of an experiment, I thought well, I’ll put on this music because it really brings in the Holy Spirit into the setting. So, I began to play, I believe it was “Yes, You Love Me” from that cut, it was a cut on “I’ll Bring You In” and as the people began to work. They were given pencils and papers to write who they needed to forgive and as the music played, I looked around the room and almost all of them were visibly moved. Some were weeping, some were sniffling, and then you could see that the Lord was doing this deep, deep work in them. And after the exercise I went through one by one and asked each one . Okay, what did the Lord do for you? One woman was able to forgive her parents that were really neglectful to her. One man was able to forgive a rapist of his daughter. One man was able to forgive the Federal system that had wronged him, he thought. So it was very, very powerful.
Sid: Marie, tell me about the person that was addicted to pain medicine for twenty years.
Marie: Yea, this young man was in that group that night and I didn’t see much happening with him. He had had an abusive father and he later told me that as a result of that session with Julie’s music he did on deed, forgive his father. Well, that was in January and in April, we were having another session and he had told us that he had been on oxycotin, oxycodone for almost twenty years. He had been in a terrible car accident when he was younger, his leg had almost been completely severed, but he was in terrible pain. So he had felt like the Lord, had told him to quit this medication and he did ,but he was going through withdrawal and of course, he was left with this pain. So when he came to group and announced this, we said okay, let’s go ahead and pray for you and he was instantly healed. Previously, this young man had some extreme anger issues. He would jump out of his car and accosts people driving down the street when he was angry. He was angry at his mother, his father and through the course of time and the use of treatment and Julie’s music he has greatly improved.
Sid: You also do secular counseling that is not faith based. Tell me what happened when you exposed them to Julie’s music?
Marie: Well, in this particular group, this is several people who have substance abuse and mental health issues. And so I used Julie’s music again, “Yes, You Love Me” that just talked about the love of the Father and as that played two people began to just totally weep and weep in the group. One of them was homosexual, he was homeless, he had HIV, he was alcoholic, and he had a mental illness. He really had a lot of problems and he began to just weep, and weep and weep. And I said, what is going on? He said, oh that music, I don’t know why I am weeping I just feel so emotional and I know that the Spirit of God just touched him in that setting just from his reaction.
Sid: Thank you, Marie.
Played Julie True’s CD “I Hear the Sound”)
Sid: We put together a mini soaking kit, its two music CDs by Julie True. Trust me, my favorite soaking music called, “Breathe You In” and “Sounds of Healing” plus a bonus, Cindy Parton did a teaching, I asked her to do this of the basics of soaking. She spent 15 yrs. they’ve had more visions and experiences with God. She’ll teach you how you can have your own experience God. How you can hear God’s voice. How you can soak; were making that as a bonus.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Dr. Caroline Leaf, and Caroline, you were saying that the brain, just like it says in scripture, is divided wisdom, is in seven pillars. The brain is divided into seven pillars. And tell me what these pillars do for us.
DR. LEAF: Okay. So there’s seven pillars of thought. We’re a thinking being. We’re thinking all day long, even at night, and we think the results as thoughts. So as we think we each think in our own unique. And so what happens is the brain has got these seven pillars and as we are processing thoughts, like when you digest food or when a form is developed it goes through stages. Same thing with your thinking. Your thinking goes through seven different stages. So each part of the brain, for example, the front part of the brain we would call your interpersonal type of thinking, which deals with your deep thinking and so on. Your second part deals with this and all the different areas of your brain deal with something different. So each of the seven different parts. So deep thinking at the front and then more communication going towards the middle, and more logical towards that part, going to movement, musical, instinct, right to the back where we see visual spacious kinds of pictures and images. So as you are listening to me now your brain would be cycling through these seven, but in your own unique way, and that’s what’s unique.
SID: How fast?
DR. LEAF: Very. Every one to two seconds you will cycle through all seven.
SID: But it’s the combination that makes me unique from you or from you.
DR. LEAF: Exactly. It’s how you move through. So you may start at the front and then move to the back, and then move to there. I may start over there and then everyone starts at the front. But I may go there first and then go back to there. It’s just the amount of time as well that you spend.
SID: Okay. I took your test and it’s a simple test. You don’t pass or fail. It’s true or false and it’s very easy. And I took it and I have my results here, and I want you to tell me whether I’m suited for what I do. My highest one was Interpersonal. The next two–
DR. LEAF: If you wouldn’t mind stopping right there. Let me show you what that is. In other words, what happens is the second part of here, this is your interpersonal area in your order. The first one opens the door to receiving information.
SID: That was the highest.
DR. LEAF: That was your highest. So your highest, there’s no good or bad. So whatever is low is also good. It just shows you the order that you cycle through the seven and then the score simply tells you as well how long you spend in each. There’s no wrong pattern. Every single pattern is fantastic, wonderful, superb. So everyone can rest at ease because often people think, oh my goodness, I must get higher. No. Whatever you get is fantastic. So you will open the door to receiving information through interpersonal, which means that you like to ask questions and get in people’s heads, and get information in your own head through a lot of communication. And that’s why you’re a great host, because you start communication. You start getting to know people. That’s why you like to do the radio interviews because you like to ask questions, and it’s through asking questions–
SID: I have to tell you, when I read what these things meant I said, that is a pretty good test. I’m doing what I’m supposed to do. Now the next two, and they were both identical, was, as far as the numbers, was intrapersonal and linguistic.
DR. LEAF: Okay. So then what happens is you cycle, it always starts down there. So you cycled immediately to that and then you went back down there, then you cycled to here, the front. The front is intrapersonal. Intra is deep thinking, introspection, decision making, going inward. And you do that. When I watch you, you do that. You’ll ask a question and then go deep inside yourself to actually analyze and interpret that information. And so your second part helps to build a temporary memory. So you ask questions to get the information in your head. And then as you deep think you start forming a memory. Then your third one down was–
SID: Was linguistic.
DR. LEAF: Linguistic. And now that is more or less over here.
SID: But actually, the second and third were the same numbers.
DR. LEAF: The same. That can happen because it’s, tests in my clinic takes, in my clinical practice is a thousand questions. So you know, we would be able, all you do in this case like that, Sid, is you would just go back and redo the two sections and say, okay, is this an acquired skill or is this really me? And in that way you’ll distinguish and you’ll find one or two questions that you may change. ‘Cause very often we muddle up what we’ve acquired, what people learn through experience, through life with what we really like to do. And so there you’ll be able to distinguish. But let’s assume that your intro comes out second and your third, and they can be very close. They can be a point percentage. It doesn’t matter. It’s absolutely fine. So your third one was linguistic which is more or less over there. Linguistic is words. It’s the spoken and written word. And I’ve watched the way you interview. You’ve got a lot of information, lots of words. So you’re using, now your third one down is where you start to consolidate information. So now I’ve received through the first one, through asking questions. You have started building a temporary memory through going deep down inside yourself and then you’re gonna shift over to words, written or spoken words, where you are consolidating, getting that memory like kind of fixed, getting it in its place, connecting it with other memories. And what’s your next one down?
SID: Well I just wrote those three down.
DR. LEAF: Okay. So that starts describing, now you would still, so in every one to two seconds, every time, all day long, two and half thousand to 3000 times an hour, up to 60,000 times a day, as you are thinking, you’re gonna shift all the time there, there, there.
SID: Okay. I can see a young kid and you’ve given me so many examples. And when I did the radio interview of young people, that you as a mother, your own child, as a mother, understood by understanding her thinking process. But what about someone 70, 80 years old? Would it help them to know their gift?
DR. LEAF: Absolutely. Like you said, we’ve got four children and as a mother I believe I’ve become a better mother by understanding my children. I’ve had people in my clinical practice sobbing because they said, “I’ve always believed I could do that.” So to show someone that you are gifted the way you think, this is brilliant. This is what it looks like. I’ve printed out a graph. And you can do that. You could enter it into PowerPoint and print out your own graph, and see about that. I did a lot of work in schools.
SID: But when people block their gifts.
DR. LEAF: Then it’s a problem.
SID: Then what happens to them physiologically when their gifts are blocked?
DR. LEAF: Well when we block our gifts we actually use our gift. Gift is our unique way that we flip through cycles through all of these. The result of that is we’re going to build memory. So we’re gonna use a tree here to show memory. This is a tree because the nerve cells of the brain look like trees. So we talk about the magic trees of the mind. So my results of using my gift will be a creation. Now the creation that I create in my mind, because my brain is neuroplastic, which means it can grow these branches and change them, could be like this, which is the normal, natural, or it could be a negative looking tree, which I call a toxic tree or a gift blocker. It could be this black tree, a gift blocker.
SID: So if our gifts are blocked and we build memories that look like this, what happens to us physically, socially?
DR. LEAF: That is considered a gift blocker. That throws our body into stress and we don’t think clearly. Wherever I have inflammation, like for example, if I have this kind of set up more or less in this part of the brain over here where I’m pointing to now, it’s called the ACG, anterior central gyro. So I’m just using this as an example. Now that’s the part of your brain that shifts between thoughts. It’s called the gear shifting of the brain. If I have a toxic thought bolt over there, as I’m cycling through those seven loops, I get there and it’s like a big nog in the road. If you have a big tree trunk that falls over the road the highway has got a crack in it and you can’t drive through because of a big hole or if there’s a bridge you can’t–
SID: Listen, the example of the road cracking, and I’ve put my tire over that, I don’t want that. I don’t want my gift locked in any way. I want to express myself. I want to be at peace. I want to be in health. I want to have good relationships and I want to find out about these gift blockers. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back after this word.
Sid: Okay, help me to understand, you’re in the hospital, at least it’s the Holy Spirit Hospital for six months in the cancer ward. What’s that like you hear people in pain and agony.
Dave: Oh yes, you don’t go to the hospital to sleep. There was noise constantly.
Sid: I know I have been in the hospital. That is the worse place for someone sick.
Dave: Yeah, there was constant noise. I would hear people crying out in pain at night. Depending what type of cancer they were battling I was in the cancer unit.
Sid: By the way, why did they give you chemo if you had a death sentence?
Dave: Well, they wanted to give it every shot they could but there was no guarantee that it would work. I had a very aggressive chemo treatment. I had seven days. I had cancer so they fight fire with fire. They came at it with constant chemo 24 seven for seven days.
Sid: Did your hair fall out?
Dave: Pretty soon. I woke up one morning and thought a dog had been sleeping on the pillow and realized that that was part of me. So it wasn’t long till I lost, not only all the hair on my head but, my eyelashes, eye brows. Didn’t have to shave, looked like Elmer Fudd. I Didn’t have to do anything.
Sid: I love what God showed you about losing your hair.
Dave: Well, he did. We had people in the church that were praying “Lord don’t let a hair of his head be harmed” and they were quite disappointed when they found out that my hair had fallen out. But I felt like the Lord said, I want you to claim a hundred souls for every hair that left my head. So I shared that with the church on a video, one of the guys brought a video camera into the room and taped me. While I was talking to him that hit me and I pointed to my bald head and said do not be discouraged because these hairs fell out. They are coming back but, were getting 100 souls for every hair that’s fell out. So that continues to be a battle cry in our church.
Dave: Now when you heard people in the cancer ward crying out with pain and agony, there was even one man you talked about that was cursing. Tell me about him.
Dave: He was pretty miserable and he would curse at his wife, curse at the nurses. And one morning I was sitting in the visit room. They would let us out of our rooms when visitors weren’t there and we could take a walk to the sun room, the visiting room. And I would sit in there with my Bible and read in the morning and this guy came in and he walked over to me and he was pretty surly he looked at my Bible and he said, “So you believe that thing?” And I said I trust the one who wrote it and he said, “Well read me something.” I happened to be in Isaiah and I read a portion of Isaiah to him and I looked up and the man was crying. And I said, He can do this, He can do what He says here. He can heal you. He carried, He carried your sicknesses. Can I pray for you? I prayed for him and I will tell you he was a very caustic man but, I prayed for him and we will see if that works. He didn’t even have any strong expression of faith but, he walked out of the room and within about a week there was a knock at my door and there he stood in his street clothes and his wife and he said well your prayers worked preacher. I have no more cancer.
Sid: Shalom Mishpochah, shalom family. Mishpochah is a Hebrew word and it means family and we’re the Mishpochah. The family with a Jewish heart made up of Jewish and non-Jewish people where the middle wall of separation between Jew and Gentile it’s has finally come down to form what Paul, he’s literally besides himself and he says in Ephesians the second chapter the reason Jesus came was to break down this separation between Jew and Gentile. Not to have an ecumenical bless Israel meeting, although that’s good but to form what he calls the full dwelling place for God, the One New Man. We need the Jew in the Body and the Jew needs the Gentile in the Body and that’s why Jesus prayed; I pray that they, Jew and Gentile, the only two people groups alive at that time, might be one so the world will believe.
My guest, Dave Hess had a death sentence from a doctor. He thinks he just has the flu or something. He takes a simple blood test and they say you have one of the most aggressive forms of leukemia, you’ll probably be dead in a month. They put him in a hospital. He has an aggressive form of chemotherapy , they don’t think it’s is going to work. They are doing the best they can. But, of course Dave has a secret weapon, he knows the Lord and he has his friends that know the Lord and they are praying for him and some very supernatural things start happening. I mean, he started out with all his healthy blood cells. They are called white blood cells, not one of them was normal. Not one. So he has this aggressive chemotherapy that they’re doing because there is nothing else they know to do. They don’t give it much hope, but one of your main doctors, a female doctor. Tell me about her.
Dave: She is a wonderful woman. She herself had been a survivor of cancer and when she shared with me the diagnosis she had such great compassion for me. She was from a very staunch religious home, a wonderful religious home but, her own confession will be that although she knew of the things of the Lord, she did not encounter and experience the heart of the Lord. And through watching the Lord minister to me, not only to my body but, she watched the peace that He spoke to me. She watched the joy that He gave me, the honey in the rock, the sweetness of His presence in the hardest of times. She was just stirred and it’s like chords of love were drawing her closer and closer to His heart and in the course of my time in the hospital and my interaction with her and other believers it’s like the Lord did a love ambush on her life. And He sent all kind of people into her life who loved and knew Jesus and her sons are being drawn to the Lord. Threw it all she came to this place of knowing Him and experiencing His love and His forgiveness and developing an amazing…
Sid: But, what about your cancer? What did she write on your medical report?
Dave: Well, when the whole thing came down, when I’d been through the burst appendix, the high fever and the days of real uncertainty where my body would rise and fall, and it looked like it might be the end. When it came to the very end of it all, when every ounce of leukemia was gone from my system, on the last page of the report she wrote: chemotherapy deterred the spread of leukemia in this patient’s body but, God brought the healing. So I’m finding that doctors are not our enemies. They are really out to see healing, but, more and more and more doctors are encountering the power of the Lord, the power of the Lord, the power of His compassion and the of His great healing anointing.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here and welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I was just talking to Nic and Rachael Billman, and they travel all over the world with people like Randy Clark, who have just awesome miracle meetings. And as far as I’m concerned, you guys as psalmists set the stage for miracles. I mean, what is, and by the way, this is gonna be hard for you to believe, they’ve known each other forever. Is that true?
SID: They started leading worship at 13 together. They’re both PK’s, pastor’s kids. What is your heart? What do you want to see accomplished when people worship the most high God?
NIC: Well I think the think about worship and being a worship leader is my job to hear what God is singing over the people, like Zephaniah says, “God sings over us” and then to release over the people in psalm, and get the people to sing back to their Father. So it’s a connection of the Father and His children in worship, more than just singing songs because the words are on a screen.
SID: But how did that intimacy, I think all things are possible.
RACHAEL: Yes, that’s right.
SID: And just before we went on the air I told them I had been listening to this new CD called “The Least of These” and there’s one song that I love. I absolutely love. It’s called, and you’ll love, just by, and a little later on we’ll have a montage of some of their songs and you’ll hear this. It’s called “Come Find Me”. Tell me about that song.
NIC: When we were leading worship–
SID: And by the way, they write their music while they’re leading worship. I mean, it’s not like you’re home at night and you write out every note.
NIC: Right. It’s all spontaneous to begin with. And this was one of those songs. We were leading worship at our church with just a few friends one night and we were actually singing like Halleluiah, holy, just high praise. And then all of a sudden I was in an open vision and I saw all these alive churches and they were saying, “God we want to see you. We want to hear your voice. We want to know you.” And God responded, and I was taken to the streets, and I saw all the poor and the homeless, and the sick. And I heard His voice say, “Then come find me.” And we began to sing the words in Matthew:25 because it’s about the least of these. And so the song, “Come Find Me” is about if you want to see God, if you want to have an encounter with God, then go the least of these and you’ll find Him there. Jesus identified himself as the least of these. The passage in scripture, it said, “When I’m hungry you gave me food. When I’m thirsty you gave me a drink.” And Jesus said that identifies himself as these people.
SID: It’s not difficult to find Jesus, is it?
NIC: No, it’s not. It’s not.
SID: Now when they worship God the way they’re doing it in their own unique fashion, the heavens open. More healings than you can count occur at their meetings and people hear angels. They hear supernatural instruments. Tell me about the time you heard the piano when you were just late at night worshiping God yourself.
NIC: Yeah. It actually kind of scared me because I was leading worship, just me, just my guitar at our church at maybe midnight. And all of a sudden I hear a piano playing, and I thought surely there’s nobody here in the building. And so just because I was curious, I walked out the hall and looked down to the sanctuary and nobody was in there. So I thought, okay, I go back and play, and I hear it again. And this time it’s louder and there is nobody in the building at all. Nobody was playing the piano. And because of that, we wrote a psalm, “I’ll Join the Angels” because we realized, you know, there’s worship in Heaven 24-7, non-stop. And so when we worship we’re just synchronizing Heaven and Earth and we’re joining in with what’s already taking place in the spirit.
SID: You know what I believe? I believe that when you guys and others that love God lead worship there’s a whole band of angels that are worshiping. If you’re dancing, they’re dancing just like you do.
SID: If you’re singing they’re singing just like you are. In fact, tell me about the time you did this home recording and found a voice on there.
RACHAEL: Nic and I have a worship room. And it’s just a room that we just sanctify as our time that we’re gonna spend with the Lord in this room. And so we do. We have, we’re able to record in there. And so one day we just decided to see what would happen. And so we just spontaneously started singing “Alleluia”. And Nic’s just singing, and so I joined in with him and I’m singing, too, and we’re just kind of echoing over each other. And that was it. And so we got into the car after this and we were headed to a ministry event, and we were driving in the car playing the CD, just a home recording type thing. And so we were driving in the car and my son says, “Mommy, who’s that other man singing with you and Daddy?” And we’re saying, “What do you mean?” We didn’t hear anything, you know, when we had first listened to it. We didn’t hear anything. But, you know, what happened was Nic was singing and then over top of it we just started singing in the spirit, and then you can hear this shouting. After a while it was like, “Ho, ho, ho!”
SID: Those angels must have been excited about you worshiping God. That’s what I think.
SID: And how do you know it wasn’t just a fluke in the recording?
NIC: Well we went back and listened to all the tracks and it’s not there. It’s not on any of the tracks in the recorder.
SID: So how do you explain that?
NIC: It’s supernatural.
SID: And by the way, if you have never heard angels singing we’re gonna include that with “The Least of These”. But people have reports of hearing instruments like my favorite instrument, the shofar, do you hear many reports of people hearing shofar blasts?
NIC: Yeah. In fact, we had a lady that emailed us and she said, “I love that you incorporated the shofar into your CD.” And I looked at Rachael and said, “There’s no shofar in the CD.” And she had a place where she had heard it in this song at this time But it’s not there. But we have it a lot where people say, I heard a shofar. I heard a tambourine.
SID: I think the angels are worshiping with you two. That’s what I believe is going on.
SID: I believe all of Heaven is worshiping, and when they worship miracles take place. Don’t go away. Be right back after this word.
SID: Hello, Sid Roth you investigative reporter to the Supernatural here with Bill Johnson. Bill, can anyone move in the power that you move in?
BILL: Absolutely, absolutely. It was meant for every believer
SID: And one of the things that intrigues me is you have a school, you have put on seminars, and the people get activated almost immediately. Pull one person out – tell me about them.
BILL: In our school, it’s a school that trains people in the supernatural, and we also have our conferences throughout the year; youth conferences; and we take the youth, we train them, and then we send them out into the streets with someone from our school. So one particular instance, a young lady from the Nashville area took three, I believe it was three young people to our mall; and taught them how to find people who needed a miracle. And we just tell them if they have crutches or a cane or whatever, then you ask if you can pray. So, there was a young girl there about nine years old that had crutches. They asked the mother can we pray for your daughter and she said sure. Well the girl was immediately healed. And the mother was so moved she then turned. She said will you pray for my husband, pointing to the man standing next to her, and then she said my daughter has never heard her father speak. Come to find out he was deaf, he was dumb, he was mute – he was unable to speak.
SID: Wait a second these are just students – this is heavy weight stuff.
BILL: Yes, he lets people break in at the top (laughs), and they began to pray for him and the first thing that happen was his ears started to open up and the young lady from our school looked at him and says you are going to speak and began to pray for him. God loosed his tongue and you can imagine the tremendous joy that hit that family that day.
SID: Tell me another one, this is so good.
BILL: We have a lot of miracles that take place in public places; a lot of things like deafness that will get healed.
SID: Now you think in terms like going to a Benny Hinn meeting, going to a church, but do you see as many as happen inside as are happening outside?
BILL: Well, because of the amount of people that are in the church, we now see, that are obeying God and taking risks, we now see more miracles outside of church than inside of church, but they continue regularly.
SID: You I think that there supposed to be outside the four walls.
BILL: Absolutely, that’s what we work for is we content to bring it in everyday life.
SID: And, see what I’m hearing you say, what gets me so excited is when you do a miracle in a public place, then all these non-believers are looking at the miracle and you have grabbed their attention to proclaim who caused the miracle. I mean it’s a no brainier. That’s the way it’s supposed to be, but we substituted a cerebral type of presentation rather than a power presentation.
BILL: One of our young men felt the presence of God come on him in a grocery store; he found someone to pray for; the man was instantly healed. He had three back surgeries, in tremendous pain, and he took the man into the parking lot, put his arm around him and started to yell in the parking lot: this man has just been healed by the Lord Jesus Christ, and two people came to that event in the parking lot and received Christ.
SID: Bill there is a presence of God that has just entered the set, and I believe that you can pray for people right now and they are going to be healed, can you do that?
BILL: I would love to, I would love to. Father I ask that the presence of the Holy Spirit be released throughout this entire viewing audience. And I come against that spirit of infirmity that has kept people locked up in disease; that devil of arthritis, cancer I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. And for those who have been in accidents, that have been afflicted for twenty or thirty years or longer, God we pray for your mercy to invade those situations and again we come against the spirit of infirmity that has sustained the effects of this accident. I rebuke you in Jesus name and we release the healing grace of the Lord throughout this land. God our cry is for you to raise the water level in the church for the miraculous where Jesus receives the glory because we just obey and do the stuff. God I ask for that in the name of Jesus.
SID: You know Bill, as you were praying that I literally felt like I saw someone with a neck brace, or one of these collars you know from having been in an accident. If you’ll just take it off, you’ll find that you just don’t need it. You already are back to better than before you had your accident. Bill, I believe that God has given you a very, very special presence and I believe in the impartation of this presence. Would you pray for those who want more? Is that you? Do you want more? I’m going to ask: at any cost, that’s the question. Do you want more at any cost? Tell God, don’t tell me, don’t tell Bill; tell God he’s the only one that can do this. People are still being healed; I mean it’s almost like popcorn right now, Bill I want you to pray for those who want more at any cost. And by the way, I’m going to grab your hand because I want to get in on this.
BILL: There is somebody who was in an accident 18 years ago; specifically 18 years, and you’ve suffered with problems in your spine, I think it’s going down into the hip area as well; and 18 years have gone by and the Lord is going to release a healing grace for that right now. If you get up and try to do what you could not do before, you’ll find that the Lord has restored what is impossible to restore. Let’s do that let’s pray for that release of grace. Lord we pray right now in the name of Jesus for the release of supernatural grace; the grace for miracles, for healings, for deliverances, to increase throughout this viewing audience; for your church of this nation; for the nations of the world. God help us to stand in that place and release that grace for miracles, the grace for miracles; the signs that point to you. Let them be released throughout the church in greater measures. We cry for that in the name of Jesus, Amen.
SID: You know what I believe? I believe that if you sincerely hunger and thirst for righteousness you will be filled. And righteousness is intimacy with God. It begins with intimacy with God. It is intimacy with God. It ends with intimacy with God. The truth is it never ends you just slip right out of your earth suit and go to heaven. But you have a job to do here and your job is not to look at the back of someone’s head in church for fifty years. You are to do the works of the Messiah. Number one: repent of your sins; tell God you’re sorry. Number two: ask for his help to overcome these things in your life and say with your own mouth I make you Lord Jesus; come and live inside of me. And then: pray like Bill prayed. I want more at any cost; I mean literally give God no rest, get desperate; make your life count. Aren’t you tired of the same old same old? There is nothing more exciting than two things. This is the prayer in my heart I’m going to have to tell you the prayer in my heart is. God I want to hear your voice and I want to be obedient. I really do. I mean this life is just a blink of the eye compared to eternity. Why would you want to waste it? The highest adventure in the world is walking with God; it’s for you, it’s not for special people – it’s a special God.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Mel Bond. And Mel, the doctors told you and your wife that you only had one chance in 100,000 of a normal child. You had three stillbirths, or three miscarriages and a baby born deformed. And why did you continue trying to have children with that doctor telling you that?
MEL: Because we believe in the Word of God and we stood on God’s word. And so during the night session I was awakened and I see this demon. It was over the top of my wife’s body, the lower parts of her body, and faster than almost than you can think, I mean so quick, it was like I could see throughout infinity out towards the east, eastern skies, and I see this angel come rushing out of the east, and it came down and wrestled with this demon, and then running off out into the southwestern skies, and at that time we were living in St. Charles, Missouri. And then that angel came back and he got on his knees, and he put his hands in the lower parts of my wife’s body. And we have three perfect children.
SID: How were you praying back then?
MEL: Well to the best of my ability with my whole heart. But more than anything we were just standing on God’s word. We just said God’s word is truth and we’re gonna believe it.
SID: Tell me, when you raised your children, did you teach them about discernment, and did they move in discernment?
SID: Did they understand deliverance? Tell me about that.
MEL: I would teach my children, as soon as they began to understand and talk, that I would tell them that if they would have flus, colds, fevers, the typical things that children get, and I’d teach them, this is a spirit. This is a demon spirit. And I’d come in there in the bedroom many times during the night session, and that was my job. You know, my wife would do the other things. But I’d come in there and then I’d pray and they’d break it. They’d break it. And I’d say, “Now if that spirit tries to come back you just take authority. You just say, ‘In Jesus’ name, you can’t stay.’” And you’d hear them, the little girls in there, talking in their voices and saying, “Jesus’ name.” Even one time my middle daughter, her name is Chantelle, she was about three years old, and she says, “Devil, if you come back I’m gonna squash you like a bug.”
SID: Out of the mouths of babes. I’ve got a report here, medical report on one of your daughters about her eyesight. She was legally blind. Tell me about that.
MEL: Okay. She was legally blind. And, you know, Jesus said in John 16:24, he said, “If two of you ask nothing in my name ask and you shall receive that your joy will be full.” Well that word “ask” means more than your just speaking out of your mouth. It says “to crave and to demand what is due.” Not demanding God, but to demand the devil get away. “And that my joy be full.” Well my joy can’t be full if my child, if my baby daughter, Caress, she’s blind. And so I got some charts, legal charts, eye charts, and I began, and so I prayed for her. And I looked into the realm of the spirit and I see that the demon spirit of blindness, I command it leave. And so she had perfect, better than perfect eyesight. Better. And so she went back to the medical doctor, and you have the reports.
SID: Speaking of medical doctors, tell me about that heart surgeon that came to one of your meetings.
MEL: Okay. He was a person that, he said he was a Christian. But he just didn’t believe in healings and miracles. And he came to a service in North Carolina, and he said that, well the upshot of the whole thing is let me start back. That I was preaching and when I was preaching I didn’t know these people. It was the first time I had ever been to this church in my life. There was 300 people, something like that there. And I look back and I see this man. I see in his chest and I see the demons, and I can tell you where they were wrapped around his arteries on his heart region. And I just told him, I said, “You got problems here,” and I described it. And I didn’t say it was a demon. I didn’t want to scare him. Some people get scared by that. And so I just said, “There’s a problem here.” And I told him where it was intricately. And then I said, “I’m gonna get rid of it now in Jesus’ name.” And so I did. And then he got real excited and he says, “I felt that! I felt that!” And he says, “I know it’s God because I feel so much better.” And then he made the statement. I think he said he’s a heart surgeon. He says, “I’m scheduled to have open heart surgery to do exactly what you said.” He says, “I want to know where you got your training.” I says, “I just got my training from Jesus. He lets me look inside the spirit world and see, look inside the bodies and see if there’s things wrong.” And he says, “I came to this service to prove that you were a fake.” And he says, “Now I know that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever, and that healing and miracles are real.”
SID: You know Mel, it’s wonderful that you move in this supernatural gift of discernment. But when people read your book or they attend your conferences, do you get many reports of people that start moving in these gifts of discernment?
MEL: I would say immediately. I just came from Japan where I did a Masters conference and I had some very incredible ministers that are even friends of Dr. Paul Yonggi Cho that said this is the greatest meeting he’s ever been in his life, and it’s only 45 minutes, a small meeting. And immediately, in there, I think there was like 95 percent of those ministers, and here we have a language barrier. And there was like 95 percent at least.
SID: Started moving into discernment.
MEL: Immediately they started seeing in the spirit world and seeing spirits, which is so important, because people need to realize that’s the root of all of our problems.
SID: Now you talk about love conquers the devil.
SID: Love stops the devil. Explain that.
MEL: In the natural world, natural-minded people, if they see a spirit it would horrify them, because it’s a dimension they’re not familiar with, that they’re not schooled in. So they don’t believe in it. And so Satan doesn’t know about love. Love is a dimension, God’s unconditional love is a dimension that Satan knows nothing about. It’s the secret place of the most high God. And so when we operate in love that we get into a dimension that absolutely torments the devil, and it’s one of the greatest forces. Because what is love? God is love. He is unconditional love. And I think that’s one of the major reasons that the devil fights people getting in love. If you read in 1 Corinthians 13, it talks about the nine gifts of the spirit. The devil knows if he fights all the gifts of the spirit, he’s got nine battles on his hands. But it says, “If we don’t walk in love then none of the gifts are…” So he knows all he has to do is fight us, keep us from operating and living in unconditional love. Then none of the gifts work. None of them work or are factual.
SID: So that’s probably why his problems between husbands and wives, parents and children, whereas if he can stop this love he wins.
MEL: He stops it all. That’s right.
SID: But if someone moves in love it mystifies him.
MEL: Absolutely. We actually, when we walk in love we are walking inside of God. That’s the reason the Bible says, “Walk in the spirit.” When we walk in love it’s just like we’re encased by God. We’re in the sacred place of the most high God. What’s the sacred place? Remember when you were a kid you played Hide and Seek?
MEL: The greater that you can hide then you can’t be found and the devil can’t find us if we get in God’s unconditional love.
SID: Okay. Last thought.
MEL: Well my last thought that I’d like to bring out is in the Book of Mark, the Bible says, “The rich young ruler came to Jesus.” And Jesus was giving him the greatest opportunity that he had ever had in his life. And Jesus said there was only one thing that kept him from that, that he wasn’t trusting God. That he had fear of trusting God with his finances. And so what I want to say, it’s the same thing today. I’d be willing to say that a hundred percent of the time there’s only one thing, and it’s a demon. There’s only thing that keeps people from experiencing the grand finale that God has for them in this life.
SID: I’ve never looked at that, the rich young ruler, that way. So you believe that there is an evil spirit behind just about every physical illness, every problem between people?
MEL: I see it, Sid. I see them. I see them. The Lord has shown me how I can do this at my will any time that I want. And I see it. I wish people could see it the way I, and I can train people to where that they can see, too, because it’s all in the Word of God, that there’s over 700 verses just in the New Testament where it validates, 2 Peter 1:3-4, where it says, “God has already given us all things that pertain to this life and godliness.” What’s godliness? God likeness. You’ll know the truth and the truth will set you free.
SID: Do you know the truth? The truth is Jesus died in your place for your sins. And every rotten thing you’ve done your whole life, everything you’re guilty about, the blood of Jesus will wash away and make you clean if you tell him you’re sorry. And then when you’re clean you ask the King of Love, Jesus, to come and live inside of you. Who wouldn’t want love, pure love, God’s love living and radiating through you. Make Jesus your Lord. Do it now.