Sid: We want everyone everywhere to understand the invisible world, to walk in the supernatural where miracles are normal not abnormal. My guest understands that invisible world; he has got what I believe is the best or one of the best documented modern day miracles I’ve ever seen. The evidence is overwhelming. His name is Ben Godwin, I’m speaking to him at his home just outside of Birmingham, Alabama. And Ben I want to tell you a sad story. One of my closest friends in the area I live is a medical doctor. He had the best practice in the city and he loved God, he believed in healing if anyone believed in healing he believed in healing. He developed cancer and with his dying breath he believed God was going to heal him and he didn’t and he died. It was a young man, he had young children, he had everything to live for, and a lot of people’s faith was crippled, they said, “If he could not be healed what chance do I have?” You wrote a book called, “God’s Strategy for Tragedy” it’s for people that survive what he didn’t survive. I’ve just postured so many questions in the example I’ve given you, I wonder if you would talk to that?”
Ben: Certainly, of course Paul told Timothy we have to fight the good fight of the good fight of faith. And I believe everything that we obtain and maintain from God is based on faith and I went through a recent tragedy, I lost my mother who was a rock of faith. I lost her back in May 13th of this year, and she like the person you mentioned, believed God with her dying breath. And I don’t feel betrayed, I don’t feel like God abandoned us; you know she had been healed many times over the course of her lifetime. In my opinion it was just her appointed time that God took her, but I would say to that person that’s struggling with questions. Don’t feel like God has abandoned you, and we’ll get into some of the reasons God allows tragedy, and the truth will set you free from those negative feelings and emotions.
Sid: Let’s go to that question, “Why does God allow tragedy,”
Ben: Yes, he could prevent it, there are several reasons. First of all, we have examples in the Bible where God allowed tragedy simply as an opportunity to manifest His glory. One example is Lazarus; Lazarus died prematurely and Jesus said, “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God that the works of God maybe manifested in him.” In other words the only reason God allowed him to die was so that Jesus could come and raise him up and glorify Himself through that. So sometimes tragedy is an opportunity for God to supernaturally intervene and glorify His name. Now in other cases sometimes God allows tragedy to change our direction. A good scriptural example is the Apostle Paul before he was Paul he was Saul, and he was going with letters in his hand to Damascus to imprison, persecute and possibly execute Christians. Now when he was interrupted by a blinding light he was blinded for 3 days and then scales fell from his eyes and what happened? His whole direction in life was radically and dramatically changed by the tragedy that he endured. Of course another reason God allows tragedy is to draw us closer to Himself, there’s a quote that I love that’s in the book on page 97. It says “Adversity is God’s University”, and sometimes we don’t understand what we’re going through but God can use situations to soften our heart to draw us closer to Himself. There’s nothing like trouble that forces us to our knees, in fact Abraham Lincoln during the dark days of the civil war said, “I have been driven to my knees many times with the overwhelming realization that I had nowhere else to go.” And so sometimes God can use tragedy to draw us closer to Himself.
Sid: Now I believe that that is what’s going to happen to our country in the next few years.
Sid: I believe that there is going to be a major move of God’s Spirit and it’s going to be because of tragedy, unfortunately.
Ben: Well, unfortunately sometimes it takes drastic measures to get people’s attention. Some people have become so apathetic, and they’ve hardened their hearts so much that it takes something really dramatic. Look at the response of America after 9/11, look at the response of America after the Hurricane Katrina and other natural disasters. It’s like we turn to God for brief a brief time, but then when everything’s back to normal we kind a lose our focus.
Sid: The church is swelled up 30 days later, they emptied again.
Ben: Yes, so it’s going to take something radical, something supernatural to bring America back to its knees, unfortunately.
Sid: God uses this, God allows it but is God doing the tragedy or do you believe that it’s the devil and then why couldn’t God just stop the devil? I mean these are kind of deep questions.
Ben: Oh, they’re very deep and I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but one thing I do stress in the book is that we live in a fallen world system. When Adam fell all of creation fell with him and things do not function like God originally intended for them to function. I don’t believe that God is out you know creating chaos, but I do believe sometimes He will withhold His hand or He will lift the hedge and allow things to happen that will cause people to draw close to Him. I think a classic example of that is Job. You know God said to Satan he said, “Have you considered my servant Job that there is none like him that walketh upright and eschews evil?” And Satan complains because he said, “God you put a hedge around about him and all that he has.” And I believe that’s true that there is a supernatural hedge around God’s covenant people, but sometimes as in the case of Job God will temporarily lift that hedge. Whether it’s a test, whether it’s to prepare us for ministry, whether it’s to draw us closer to Himself God will lift that hedge and the purpose is not to destroy us, the purpose is to workout redemption, the purpose is always to bring glory to His name in the end.
Sid: Now, you have a quote in your book, “You say that our response to tragedy is not the problem, but how we respond.” What do you mean?
Ben: That’s right, I don’t think it’s what we face in life that determines what we are, it’s how we react to what we face in life. See two people can go through very similar circumstances…
Sid: So are we fair weather believers, when things are good, “Praise God, praise God.” When things go bad do we attack the only one that can solve our problem?
Ben: Right. Well see, Jesus said in Matthew 5:45 “He makes the sun to rise on the evil and the good; He sends His rain on the just and the unjust.” And sometimes what were taught in faith circles is a little bit unrealistic. We’re taught that if you walk in faith then you’re a Christian then nothing bad will ever happen to you. Well that’s not Biblical we live in a fallen world. I like Job’s mentality. Job said this in the midst of all of his calamity, ten child were killed, all of his livestock were taken away, his own body erupted with boils and there he sat in ashes. But in the end he said, “Though God slay me yet will I trust in Him.” In other words, I’m not going to serve God because of what He gives me; I’m going to serve God regardless.
Sid: Now what I don’t understand is, I understand what you’re saying, what I don’t understand is that would be my attitude and has been when tragedy hits. But I don’t understand why it isn’t everyone’s, why isn’t it?
Ben: Well, I think it goes back to your relationship with God and your perspective. You know if you become part of the solid rock foundation of the Word of God then you can become unshakable. When my Mom passed away three months ago it was the hardest thing I’ve ever faced in my life but not for a minute was I bitter against God, not for a minute did I blame Him because I believe God is sovereign, I believe He’s in control despite what we face in this life. So it’s not so much why God allows tragedy to me the more important question is how we respond to it.
Sid: How should someone respond to tragedy?
Ben: Well, in my book I outline the three probably most common responses. Some people just become, well they blame God, they just outright shake their fists at God and say “Why me, why did You let me down, where were You when I needed You the most.” And they just out right blame God. Other people aren’t that defiant or that vocal, and they just turn it all inward. They wouldn’t so much verbally blame God but they become bitter in their Spirit. And there is a Biblical example of that. Naomi in the book of Ruth lost her husband, and two sons. When she came back to Jerusalem after ten years in Moab people didn’t recognize her. And they said, “Is this Naomi?” And she said, “Don’t call me Naomi which happens to mean, pleasant,” she said, “Call me Mara which means bitter for the Almighty has dealt bitterly with me.” And so she wasn’t blaming God but she had become bitter in her spirit where she could really thrive in her walk with God. And then the third response that I believe is the Biblical response is to believe, you just keep believing
Sid: My guest by way of telephone I’m speaking to him at his home just outside of Birmingham, Alabama in Jasper Alabama is Ben Godwin. And Ben on July 16, 1977 was riding his bike and there was a blind spot. He got hit by a car, literally part of his leg bone, three inches of his bone was at his side, he had a couple of compound fractures; they were concerned about at best when they took him to the hospital, and by the way he had another accident on the way to the hospital. The ambulance gets hit so they didn’t know the best scenario would that he’d be crippled his whole life; the worst his leg would be amputated. But he had praying parents who prayed. So they put in a couple of pins to keep things still while they were deciding what to do with his leg. And three months later pass his mother had had a vision of the bone gradually coming back in the leg. I’ve got a picture of his leg, and the bone is definitely missing in my picture and that was the before picture. And then you went three months later after the accident you go to a prayer meeting and it was a very unusual you said that it was an unusual presence of God then. And you’re just the young kid at that time your 7 years of age tell me what happened at that prayer meeting.
Ben: Well, I was sitting there beside my parents, my crutches were at my side, my long leg cast was still on; three inches of bone still missing out of my leg. Then suddenly in the course of that prayer meeting just the atmosphere changed. It was if the Spirit of God came among us in a powerful way; in fact when my Pastor, Bertha Madden, started her prayer meeting that emerged into a church. She saw a vision of people kneeling all over her living room and Jesus walking among them touching them and blessing them. Well, it was that kind of a night, and my pastor was so moved, I mean she began to weep, she began to pray in the Spirit, she did something totally unusual for her she, if you can imagine at this time was a 79 year old woman, and she literally fell face first out of her chair, she was in a wing chair. She fell face first on the floor and crawled on her hands and knees across the room to where I was sitting.
Sid: Well, was this because the presence of God was so tangible she had no choice?
Ben: I believe that she was compelled; she was overwhelmed by the Spirit of God. She had such a depth of compassion. Now she had prayed for me on numerous occasions before this but this time it was different. She had just tears in her eyes, and I’ll never forget her words Sid, she as she prayed I remember watching the tears glisten on her faith filled face. And she said these words she said, “A new bone for Ben God, honor Thy Word with a new bone in this leg.” And in the course of her prayer I distinctly remember those words. And I told my parents on the way home, “When Pastor Madden prayed for me I literally felt something move inside of my cast.”
Sid: What was your parents’ reaction after that prayer?
Ben: Well, they really believe that God had done something, I mean there was such a tangible presence that they really believed that a miracle had occurred.
Sid: But then tell me this, why did you miss your next two doctor appointments?
Ben: Well, that’s a long story, but I’ll make it very brief. My parents had been really offended at the first surgeon that attended my leg. He is to be accredited for saving my leg, preventing infection and so forth. But he was very derogatory towards my parents, and basically he insulted their faith on more than one occasion. He used profanity and they just didn’t want me under his influence anymore and they made a bold move and they decided right in the middle of this crisis to change doctors.
Sid: Okay, so when you went to this next doctor, though I understand that he was very upset that you waited so long to come in, why was he so upset?
Ben: Well, you understand that my last doctor’s appointment had been September 15, this doctor’s appointment was November 3, 1977 so for a total of 48 days with my leg in the poor condition that it was in I had not seen a doctor. Now my parents treated my wound, they showed us how to change the bandages and so forth, they treated the leg but a doctor had not seen me in 48 days.
Sid: So what did he say when you saw him for the first time this doctor?
Ben: Well, to be honest he was upset with my mother and basically accused her of being irresponsible. He said, and I’m paraphrasing but he said “something to the affect, don’t you know infection or gangrene could set in this leg?” Ben could lose his leg? And of course, we were coming to hear the good news of a miracle, not the possibility of amputation. So he went out of the room to exam the new X-rays. My mother, I’ll never forget, she grabbed my hand and she began to pray kind of in a whispered tone, she said, “Satan we bind you and all of our accusations against us,” she said, “Lord we trusted You this far and we’re not giving up now.” And she just continued to pray; well a few minutes later the doctor came into the room and we got tense, we braced ourself for more verbal abuse, but this time something was noticeably different about the doctor’s countenance. His attitude toward us had totally changed and he stuttered a little bit and he said, “Mrs. Godwin, I need to show you something, and he said, “Something has changed in Ben’s leg since you were here.” And we went down the hall to a small X-ray room. There on the lighted screen he pulled out his pointer and in medical terms tried to explain to my Mom that 3 inches of bone had appeared on the new X-ray.
Sid: Which I’m looking at right now on page 63 of your book. So how did he account for those three inches of bone materializing?
Ben: Well, when my Mom saw it she said, “Is that what I think it is?” And he nodded with his head and my Mom, was very vocal and demonstrative person she began to shout “Hallelujah” and literally leaped for joy, I mean literally!
Sid: Well, what did this doctor say?
Ben: Well, he was baffled; he really didn’t have an explanation. Here’s what he did say, he conceded to my Mom, he said, “Mrs. Godwin, you really do have faith” and he was visibly impressed. He didn’t go so far to say, you know that it was a miracle, but we do know this…
Sid: Listen, we Jewish people have a Hebrew word for doctors like that, Mischugah, it means crazy. Absolutely crazy I got the X-rays.
Sid: Just out of curiosity you went on to play high school sports, we’re you limited in any way?
Ben: Before I answer that let me add, my mother had a housekeeper that was also employed by this same doctor. Although he was nominally religious beforehand, we heard through the grapevine that this doctor began reading his Bible and began attending a Bible preaching church as a result of what he saw in my leg.
Sid: I think anyone that reads the book and sees the documentation has got to reevaluate whether miracles are for today or not.
Sid: But answer my question, you went to play high school sports, did you have any limitations?
Ben: Now the next day after we saw that X-ray he took out the pins that were in my leg, took off that old ugly long leg cast, and he put on a short cast and then I was able to start putting pressure on the leg gradually. See I had lost some muscle as well in that accident so gradually I began to strengthen my muscle and by the end of that school year I was participating in athletics and all throughout Junior High and High School.
Sid: Did you walk with a limp?
Ben: Maybe at first simply because my leg was weak because I hadn’t used it, you know for several months, but all throughout junior high and high school I was able to play basketball, football, volleyball, water skied, I’ve snowed skied.
Sid: Listen, you’re missing three inches of bone do you walk with a limp today?
Ben: No sir, my legs are the same length, I can walk without any problem. In fact I have not been back to a doctor of any kind for any treatment on this leg since that day in November.
Sid: Now, when you share your testimony miracles take place because people have their faith stretched; that’s one reason that you wrote your book “God’s Strategy for Tragedy.” But as far as I’m concerned if the miracle wasn’t in the book this is such necessary teaching because there are Christians that are, they may not even have the nerve to say this to God but they’re wondering “God, why do you allow these tragedies?” “How can I trust you?” I would imagine people that are in that impossible situation where they literally angry with God. I guess that’s because they’ve missed understood…
Ben: The people that have talked to me or written to me so far have had an overwhelmingly positive response. People have told me they’re amazed by my testimony and what God had done and what God has done in my life, but they also have told me that by hearing my testimony or reading it that their faith just begins to soar and they are encouraged to believe God for His supernatural intervention in their lives. Because the Bible says “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever,” What He has done He will do and you know what God has done for somebody else automatically your faith begins to rise and you say “Well if God did it for them He’s no respecter of persons.
Sid: Speaking of faith rising, it’s rising right now. On tomorrows broadcast I believe there’s going to be a release of the supernatural.
Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah, his name is Mike Shreve. I’m speaking to him by way of telephone at his office in Cleveland, Tennessee. He has a new book out and it’s one of these books that is a necessity, absolute necessity. I know that you love your children, I know you love your grandchildren, I know you pray for them but what a difference it would make because what Mike has done he’s researched 65 specific promises found in the Bible that apply to your children and grandchildren. And what you do is you take this book, and each day you pray a scripture, you read the scripture to know God’s heart, his will, then you read the commentary on the scripture to understand it totally. Now you are on firm ground with God, you literally can demand what you’re entitled to over your children and your grandchildren. And the prayer is written out for you, and you actually write the name of your children or your grandchildren and then you pray this prayer each day. Mike Shreve in these days, in these times that we are living in, this is what I believe, I believe these prayers will allow their children and grandchildren to fulfill their God given destiny.
Mike: I believe that these promises are propelling forces if you will a propelling force all together that will push them forward into their destiny and their purpose. And it’s our responsibility as parents to that, in fact one of the promises really speaks of that toward the end of the book. Promise number 62 I bring out the Psalm 127 verses 3 thru 5 says “Behold children are a heritage from the Lord the fruit of the womb is a reward like arrows in the hand of the warrior so are the children of one’s youth, happy is the man that has his quiver full of them, they shall not be ashamed, but shall speak with their enemies in the gate.” And so it depicts children as arrows that are loaded in a bow by a parent and that bow in a sense is our revelation of that child’s destiny and our faith in that child’s purpose. And we load them like arrows in that bow and shoot them toward the goal of the perfect will of God for their life. And they become a spiritual weapon in the hands of God to accomplish His purposes. And we need to do that, we need to have this revelation; every parent out there is grasping for something that will empower them to pray more effectively for their children. I know I did, and that’s what birthed this in my spirit and I began to find promises after promise after promise where God said that He would definitely do things for my son and my daughter. For instance Isaiah 44 verse 3 God said, “I will pour water on him who is thirsty and floods on the dry ground, I will pour my spirit on your descendants and my blessing on your offspring.” And I started claiming that promise for my son and my daughter and a couple months later she got filled with the Holy Spirit. She was drunk on the Spirit for an hour and crawled up into my arms and wept and cried and said, “Oh Daddy Jesus filled me” and I believe it had a direct result from the intercession that went out over her life.
Sid: You know I’m thinking about they’re many listening to us that have their children in secular schools. It’s almost unbelievable what is normal in the education process in secular schools. But then others put their children in Christian schools and a lot of parents do that because their children have so many problems so they put them together with a bunch of children with problems. In other words we can’t pass the buck, we can’t rely on a pastor, or a Christian school to do the praying for our children can we?
Mike: No we can’t and you’ve just described a dilemma for a lot of people. I know my daughter is in Christian school and it’s a very protected atmosphere and she’s prospering well there. She’s in second grade, but in our community there was no good schools for high school age child and my son is in a secular school. And he’s under severe spiritual attack every day that he walks on those grounds, I know that so I try and cover him with these promises. And just one other that I might share that is a good one to claim so that the children will have the strength to resist temptation, the strength to resist peer pressure etc. It’s promise number 42 in the book from Psalm 112, it says “Praise the Lord, blessed is the man who fears the Lord, who delights greatly in His commandments, his descendents will be mighty on earth, the generation of the upright will be blessed. And so when I pray over my son, and pray over the atmosphere of the school where he goes to school I claim the scripture over him. And I say “Now God you said my son would be mighty upon the earth and I expect the Holy Spirit who is called the Spirit of Might to empower him, to resist temptation, to resist friendships that would corrupt him, to resist false things that are being taught in the schools of our land.” And I believe that that makes a difference in the strength that he has to combat the forces that he’s faced with every day.
Sid: You know one of the things I like about your book is you have all the promises in alphabetical order and so if there’s a particular area that you really need on your children and grandchildren you can just look this up and go with the promises number. But I think that it would be good just to start with number 1 and pray one or two promises every day, it’s going to take you less than a minute, and it’s going to change the entire DNA spiritually of your children and grandchildren. Let me read some of, not the promises, but some of the subjects that you have biblical promises for. Angelic protection, compassion, deliverance, divine health, divine instruction; hey I want some of these things for myself. Freedom from captivity, Glory of God, Great peace, Longevity, Love for God, Obeying God, Outpouring of God’s blessing, Outpouring of God’s Spirit, Preserved from trouble, Proclaimer’s of God’s Word, Prophetic insights, Provision, Salvation, Spiritual growth, Success, Vessels of perfect praise, Visions, Prosperity. Mike you’ve covered, I just read a few of them here, I’m thinking about myself, or I’m thinking about you Mike, my parents of course until they were much older didn’t even become believers in the Messiah; but how my whole life would have been different if my parents had been believer’s in the Messiah and prayed these promises over me.
Mike: You know one unique thing though Sid is that the majority of these promises are out of the Old Will, out of the Old Covenant and most of them are promises Jewish people should be very familiar with. In fact I thought seriously about doing a Jewish version of this book for our Jewish brother and sisters that may not necessarily accept Jesus as the Messiah yet.
Sid: Well, you actually use very familiar Jewish objects in your book. The mezuzah on the doorpost of every Jewish home; how did that happen?
Mike: Well I used that as a symbol toward the end of the book encouraging parents to post these promises around their home. I relate it to the mezuzah which is small rectangular object maybe about three or four inches, maybe one or two inches wide. Most of your listeners would be familiar with it. There’s two passages of scripture in the mezuzah Deuteronomy 6 verses 4 – 9 and Deuteronomy 11 verses 13 – 21, and in both of those passages it talks about teaching these things to your children and “Speaking of them when you sit down in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up that you’re days of your children may be multiplied in the land which the Lord swore to you.” And of course when ever a Jewish person enters into to their home or apartment or business quite often they’ll, normally they’ll touch the mezuzah as an affirmation of the promises it contains. And I was just encouraging especially gentiles believers to do something similar on the basis of that practice and post these promises, these 65 promises around their home. And then touch them as you would touch the mezuzah, touch those promises and say “God I thank you this is fulfilled in my child’s life today.”
Sid: You know I can just picture when I shared about myself some of those that are listening to us right now are saying, “Yeah, I wish my parents had prayed that for me, I wish their parents had prayed that for them.” Well someone somewhere has got to say “I’m going to make a difference.” Mike we’re not talking about three hours a day, we’re talking about less than three minutes a day to change the destiny of every member of their family.
Mike: I’m encouraging people right now to perform a spiritual experiment and to pray these promises over their family, over their offspring for the entire year of 2009, and then I’m asking them to get back in touch with me by the end of 2009 and let me know the transformation that takes place in their family. I believe we’re going to have hundreds, thousands of testimonies and changed lives. Children that have increase of spirituality and connectedness with God. And you know one promises that’s really burning in me right now and that’s Isaiah 54 verse 13 and that’s where God said, “All thy children shall be taught by the Lord and great shall be the peace of thy children.” Think of that, all your children shall be taught by God! You know I try to teach my children the word of God all the time, every day I try to mention something that’s relevant to them. But God is letting me know that He’s involved in the process and I can only instruct them, but when God speaks to them that’s revelation that will stay with them a lifetime. And I saw that fulfilled in my son’s life in a very curious way. One morning when he was about four years old he came downstairs from his bedroom and he announced to everyone in the kitchen, he said “Mommy, Daddy I died in my sleep and Jesus took me to heaven”, and he began to describe heaven to us and it was a powerful description.”
Sid: Oh, we’re out of time…
Sid: My guest by way of telephone, I’m speaking to him at his home in Jasper, Alabama which is thirty – forty miles west of Birmingham, Alabama is Pastor Ben Godwin. And Ben what you went through as a young child on July 16, 1977, how old were you?
Ben: I was seven years old, at the time of the accident.
Sid: It wasn’t just one accident, he was hit while on his bicycle and then the ambulance that was taking him they got blindsided, then you get to the hospital and there’s no room available for surgery. It’s a Saturday afternoon and the operating rooms are all busy, and they were worried that shock would set in, and you had to have the surgery. So you began to have a praying family do what they’re supposed to do, pray. What happened?
Ben: I was fortunate to be raised in a church with a strong emphasis on prayer in fact on top of our church building they had gigantic praying hands that rotated and the slogan of the church was “Around the clock and around the world we are praying.” It was a network of prayer groups. And that’s what they did, they began to intercede and within three to four hours unexpectedly to the hospitals schedule an operating room did become available and they were able to go in and tend to my leg and prevent the infection and to prevent the shock from setting in.
Sid: Well, I got a picture in your book, I mean you really have this documented of what the X-ray showed at that stage. Tell me about this particular X-ray, what are these two lines in your leg right above and right beneath?
Ben: Well on page 62 of my book you’re looking at the X-ray there that was taken on September 15, 1977, it had been virtually no difference from the original X-rays. And what happened was when they went in for surgery that night, the piece of bone that had been dislodged from my leg was damaged beyond repair, it was too splintered, too jagged, they could not reinsert it in my leg. So what you’re looking at on page 62 there Sid is two pins, one just below my knee that goes all the way through my leg horizontally, and one just above my ankle and that same night in surgery they put after cleaning the wound they decided to leave the wound open. They placed on the leg a full length plaster cast from my hip all the way to my toes. Then later they cut a window over my calf on the foreleg so that they could tend to the wound later on, but they didn’t do anything with the bone because it was damaged beyond repair.
Sid: Alright the bone was damaged beyond repair, but the X-ray I’m looking at shows there isn’t any bone there’s a three inch missing bone there.
Ben: That’s correct.
Sid: And why did they put those steel rods in?
Ben: Mainly to restrict movement so that my leg wouldn’t compress together. To use a crude analogy, like an accordion they wanted some rigidity there to where my bone, my other bone, the fibula which is a small bone in your body, it had to be set. It had also broken and penetrated through the top of my leg, so I actually had two compound fractures.
Sid: Okay, what was the medical prognosis after this surgery?
Ben: Well, the orthopedic surgeon told my parents after that first surgery that your son Ben will basically never walk again without a terrible limp. They said in essence he’ll be a semi-cripple. They said, “His left leg will always be shorter than his right leg.” They brought up again the possibility of amputation if infection were to set in. They basically braced my parents for the reality that barring a miracle that I would be a semi-cripple the rest of my life.
Sid: Or worse, lose your leg!
Sid: I mean that’s not a good prognosis. There were two ministers that came to the hospital that one had a Word of Knowledge and one had a Vision. Tell me about that.
Ben: That’s correct. Two ministers came and visited my parents and me while I was in the hospital. One of them had a Word of Knowledge that my leg would be totally restored by a miracle. And of course my parents just clung to that tenaciously because they were strong believers to begin with.
Sid: What’s going on with the little seven year old, what’s going on inside of you over all of this?
Ben: Well, I’d have to say I had child like faith you know I was raised believing in the supernatural. So you know I was hopeful, I was expectant. I may not have had the mature faith that I do now but I was you know following my parents lead. What my parents would do is they would get the Word of God out and they would literally from the Bible read many of the healing promises that are in the scriptures, they would read them to me out loud over and over and over again.
Sid: How important was that?
Ben: Well, you know Paul said, “Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” So sometimes you have to tune out the negative news that you receive.
Sid: But what did you think about that Word of Knowledge and that Vision that you were going to be healed?
Ben: Well, I was ecstatic. I mean that would definitely be my preference over more surgery and lengthy therapy and rehabilitation.
Sid: So if I was to have interviewed you at seven years old, and I would say “Little Ben, is God going to perform a miracle, what would you have said?”
Ben: I would have probably said, “Yes.”
Sid: Okay, then your Mom has a vision of your healing, tell me about that.
Ben: That’s correct, now I spent 18 days in the hospital. I was sent home in a wheelchair, I started third grade in a wheelchair and I went to church on a Sunday, soon thereafter. One of the Elders of our church came and during the course of the Worship Service was praying for me. He just had a real burden, a real concern, and he came and he began to pray for me. While he did my Mom who was standing beside us saw a vision, and in the vision she saw an X-ray, and she saw the X-ray like you saw it on page 62 of my book, where there’s a three inch gap of missing bone. But in the vision suddenly a thin thread like milky substance began to span from one end of the bone to the other and then was solidly filled in to where it was a complete and whole bone.
Sid: Did she tell you about that, did she tell others about that vision?
Ben: Yes, definitely, my Mom was a very vocal, very bold women. She definitely whenever God spoke to her in any means she would, she would definitely share it.
Sid: And then you went to a prayer meeting, how long did it take from the time of the vision to the prayer meeting?
Ben: I’m not sure about the time of the vision but from the time of the accident which happened in July 16, 1977 the prayer meeting was on October 7, so less than three months later.
Sid: Okay, tell me about your recollection of that prayer meeting.
Ben: Well, the prayer meeting was at my then Pastor’s home, my Pastor, her name was Bertha Madden, and she formed our church out of a prayer meeting. Kind of like the New Testament Church in the Book of Acts. You know it all started at a prayer meeting, and then the Holy Spirit showed up and the Church was born. Well, that’s how our church was founded out of a prayer meeting in her home. Well she would have these prayer meetings every Thursday morning with ladies that didn’t work and every Friday night with couples and families. And we went to that prayer meeting, happened to be a Friday night October 7, 1977 and by then I was out of a wheelchair, I had graduated to crutches, but the doctors told me I was not to put any weight on my leg because I still had the missing bone, I was still awaiting a bone graft surgery. And so I came into that prayer meeting and plopped down on one of the couches and after a few minutes of prayer, intercession going forth it just seemed like a powerful presence of God came into that room. And my pastor did something very, you might say unorthodox, very…
Sid: I’ll tell you what hold that though we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast but then as important as this great verifiable modern day miracle so documented I’ve never seen a miracle as documented and you have it in this book. And so someone that says, “Show me one miracle where is Geraldo?” I want him to say that to you, “Show me one miracle,” you’ve nailed it.
Sid: Can you hear the passion of the Spirit of God speaking through my voice right now. We want everyone everywhere to hear the good news. We want everyone everywhere not to just be religious but be normal, red hot for Jesus. My guest is normal his name is Keith Miller; I’m catching up with him by way of telephone at his home in Amarillo, Texas. And Keith had a series of angelic encounters beginning in August 2002. As a result of these encounters he’s written his new book “Surrender to the Spirit”, which supernaturally because it came from God, will allow you to walk in the fullness of God in all seven facets of the Spirit of God. And Keith if you would review again the first encounter that occurred in August of 2002.
Keith: Yeah, I was in a worship service and I was actually going to be one of the speakers in a school, and we were doing a school with different people. And during the worship service I was just worshipping and all of a sudden I had a prophetic encounter where I was caught up and I saw this massive incredibly strong authoritive Angel of the Lord. And as I saw him it lasted about ten seconds, fifteen seconds, but he said “Open your mouth!” And when I opened my mouth he threw something in my mouth and I began to eat it and when I come out of the prophetic encounter I just knew in my spirit that it was Ezekiel chapter 3 and Revelation 10. Where in Ezekiel 3 he says, “Take the scroll, eat the scroll and it’ll be sweet to your mouth but it will be bitter to your belly.” And in Revelation 10 the angel of the Lord had an open book and he showed it to John he said, “Take the book and eat the book.” And that’s what the encounter was, and as that moment I knew that something incredible had taken place and I…
Sid: Just out of curiosity had you ever seen an angel before?
Keith: You know I’ve had prophetic encounters I would have to say that I’ve been around the prophetic and the encounters, but I’ve never seen or been part of an encounter like that where it was so tangible, so real. Plus the scroll book I had never studies scrolls, I’d never studied anything about books in the Bible. I really didn’t even know what it was when it happened I really didn’t have a feel of what took place at all; I just knew that it was something that was life changing. Because I knew that I was at a point that, like we shared on Monday and during the different interviews I was in the radio program, where I begin to cry out because of a deep hunger out of a need in 1994 a need to see the power of God to see people’s lives changed.
Sid: Okay, then came September the next month of 2002 the same angle shows up; what happened?
Keith: Three o’clock in the morning woke me up right out of bed I woke up and I knew instantly that I was to go to my office and it’s about fifteen minutes from our house. I got dressed and headed to our office and as soon as I walked into the door of the front of the office area; as soon as I walked in there you could just feel the tangible, electrical presence of the Lord, I mean just like oh, my gosh. I threw off my shoes and it’s like you don’t know what to expect. And as I walked into the front reception area, opened up the door that leads to the corridor down to the different offices, mine was the third door on the right. And as I opened up that door there standing straight in the back in the hallway in the breakroom was the same angel. But it was different this time because this time it wasn’t a prophetic encounter it wasn’t a vision he was there. I mean sometimes it’s hard to understand; even I have to ask myself during the encounter I said, “What’s going on.” But it wasn’t a vision, it wasn’t a trance he was literally right there. It undone me, a fear hit me, a fear of God and I mean I just went oh, oh every hair on my body stood up and I was undone and I dove, I literally dove into my office and hit the floor. When I hit the floor I begin to pray but all of a sudden then I was in a prophetic encounter for about forty-five minutes and the Holy Spirit began, and my cry at that point had been saying “Lord I want to know the counsel of heaven, I want to know Your counsel that stands for many generations and when I go out to minister I don’t want to just s peak a word, I don’t want to just share a word I want the counsel of heaven that establishes the Kingdom.” And for about forty-five minutes in this encounter He showed me like a movie screen that He pulled down and I begin to see scenes begin to be played on the movie screen. And I knew at that moment that He was going to answer my prayer and as I went out He was going to show me the counsel of heaven for different cities, different regions, different places, different ministries, different places that we went, that we go to now. And that takes place; and after about forty-five minutes I felt the lifting of the Holy Spirit lift off of me the power and the unction I could sense that He lifted off of me there in my office and I said this statement, “Holy Spirit what about the guy in my hallway?” And he said, “Look he has names written on his arms and his legs so.” You know I’m real brave, I have to be honest I just kind of ducked my head and looked real quick because this guy was huge, massive and his presence was overpowering.
Sid: So this was another angel?
Keith: No, the same angel still there and I looked and looked my head out there in the hall so I just jumped out in the hall and there he was. This guy he’s just incredibly in the realm of authority and massive and he had his arms crossed and from the should to the elbow was a name written on each shoulder, elbow and it was strength and stature. And then he left just like that, the moment that I read the names I saw strength and statue he was gone just like that. And I knew I said, “Okay, I need to learn everything I can on strength and stature.” I mean first of all it took me hours to get over the encounter, I mean it’s just an incredible thing that took place and so I started studying out the word. And what the Lord was showing me at that time was the strength, and this is Ephesians 3:16 because what we’re pulling from and part of what the books bringing out is Ephesians 3:16, 17, 18, 19 & 20. Where we begin to see the exceedingly, abundantly above and beyond, but what brings out that scripture in the context of the flow, is the fullness of God. And it starts off in Ephesians 3:16 “That He would grant to us from the riches of His glory to be strengthened in the inner man by the power of the Holy Spirit.” And it’s incredible because you begin to pull out that scripture and the word strength there means from the Greek root word kratos which means manifested dominion. So He wants us to learn how to use in an infusion constantly supply and that’s where the lamp stand comes in and why it’s a shadow of things to come because the center part is Christ. And when we’re in union with Christ we’re constantly receiving fresh oil fresh drink, fresh oil fresh drink by His divine power through His divine nature the hope of Glory, Christ in us.
Sid: Right, and you’re describing the lamp stand in the temple and in the times that we’re living in we need it more than ever!
Keith: Yes, yes we do. That’s why I believe the message is for such a time as now. That’s why I felt like we waited, and this all took place in 2002, but it was a season that the Lord didn’t want me to just know about this, but He wanted me to begin to understand which understanding was going to bring the revelation, which brings the impartation that brings demonstration. So we can live, He wants us to know that the strength of the Lord be the dominion of the Kings Kingdom within us that we’re not tossed to and fro but we’re strong. Paul said it the best in Ephesians 6:10 “Finally my brethren be strong in the power and the might of the Lord.” And that word there is krataios and it means manifested dominion. So there’s a strength of the Lord of the dominion of the kingdom in us but then Paul understood this so much that in Acts 19:20 he says, “The word of God grew and prevailed mightily”, the word there mightily is krataios. And what happened in them began to touch out of them and the word grew and prevailed. That’s what the Lord wanted was that message of the second event with the angel was that you need to operate in His strength, and then you need to function under the full stature of Christ in you; because of the Kingdom dominion that’s coming to the body of Christ for the glory and power that He’s going to release. We can’t operate in our strength and we have to operate in the full stature of Christ in us.
Sid: And the thing that excites me is about the impartation you received at the Benny Hinn meeting.
Sid: We want every one everywhere to be outrageous compared to normal Christianity, but normal compared to the Bible; it’s that simple. Let me give you an example of someone that’s normal I’m speaking to Ryan Wyatt, and let’s start out with the most outrageous thing I have in my notes right now. Ryan, according to my notes you prayed for someone and they lost 65 pounds instantly.
Ryan: That’s right in the atmosphere of the glory I was releasing atmospheric miracles. A woman was sitting in her chair and the fire of God began to burn through her body, and she was vibrating from head to toe. When she stood up her pants literally began to drop and she had to grab a hold of her pants. She had lost several sizes and around sixty to sixty five pounds instantly.
Sid: Now just out of curiosity did you have like a word of knowledge for this when this happened, or did it just happen because it was the atmosphere of the supernatural?
Ryan: I was releasing a series of words of knowledge in the atmosphere, and one of them was for a thyroid condition. This woman believes that she had a thyroid condition, and believes that it was instantly healed, and all the weight that that thyroid condition was causing just immediately fell off.
Sid: Now according to my notes at age eleven you did what a lot of young people did, you went forward and you got saved, but you became a punk rocker. And according to my notes you had a purple Mohawk that stood a foot off of your head. I’m trying to visualize this you had black leather jacket with spikes, patches, combat boats. Why in the world did you do this?
Ryan: Well, I’ll tell you what, that’s a group of friends that I ended up falling into and like most people of that age I was extreme and anything I was going to do I was going to be absolutely extreme. I went all for it in the punk rock scene for several years of my life as a teenager.
Sid: Tell me about the first time you heard audible voice of God as you can remember.
Ryan: Well, I’ll tell you Sid I was living that lifestyle, I had had that salvation experience with the Lord, but I was very lukewarm living that Punk Rock lifestyle. I went on a backpacking trip in the Big Horn Mountains along Colorado, Wyoming line with the youth group. I got separated from the group in the mountains, this was the month of June, but we were at such a high elevation there, and it was very cold. The group had looked for me all night long. They went down the mountain to get Red Cross, Red Cross said that there’s a snow storm that’s about to hit at that elevation. They said that they would not put their men in danger. They said we’ll come get his body tomorrow, they told the team that I would not make it that I would die in the mountains there was no hope what so ever. And I remember crying out to God and being angry at God and mad at God and you know why would you do this to me and I had fallen into the river, started to go into hyperthermia. Just really came to a breaking point and came to realize that God was allowing me and wanting me to come to this breaking point. And out of my mouth when I finally realized that I was about to die I said “Fine God, if you will save me I’ll give my life to You in full time ministry.” It was one of those moments where I became afraid, “Oh my goodness, what did I just say, it slipped out of my mouth.” And I’ll never forget you know for me I’m surprised people didn’t hear it miles around, for me it was as audible gets I heard the Lord say as soon as I said “I’ll give me life to you in full time ministry if you save me.” The Lord said, “Okay,” just like that and it was reverberated through the mountains. I remember weeping and coming back to the Lord after years of being lukewarm and knowing like I know that God was going to save my life. And one of the most intimate experiences I’ve ever had you know as I was on deaths door and God answered me audibly and said, “I will save you.” And the group found me within moments, absolutely supernatural and brought me back, saved me just in time, we went to sleep just a couple of hours and woke up and there was nearly a foot of snow on the ground already.
Sid: Now, I’ve heard stories similar to this and I don’t get it but people have backslid after having had such a profound experience, how about you?
Ryan: Well, you know I was sixteen years old Sid when that happened and I came out of that time. You know I did, I had a period of time where I had to really evaluate was I going to live up to that word, but you know Sid for me, it so impacted my life I started traveling throughout a ten state region when I was sixteen years old and preaching the gospel. It absolutely radically impacted me, it led into my baptism in the Holy Spirit. It was just really a turning point in my life and I never looked back.
Sid: You know as I’m reviewing the notes on you there’s something that just intrigues me, you were in the state of Washington and suddenly it got very very warm, tell me about that.
Ryan: Sid this encounter I’m about to tell you about has become the most foundational encounter of my entire life. Within the hotel room I had been ministering for years at this point and I was simply asking the Lord, “What He wanted to do in the meeting that night as I do before any meeting.” And suddenly the temperature in the room instantly changed, it got very very warm in the room, and the fear of the Lord came over me like in a form of an awe. I thought “Oh my goodness, what’s happening.” I went and checked the thermostat, the thermostat was off, and I knew that something supernatural was happening. I went and sat in my chair Sid, and the presence of God came in the room so strong I began to vibrate from the inside out, I began to weep, the intimacy, the presence of the Lord was so strong. From around the corner in my room, I’m telling you honest before God, Jesus Christ literally walked into my room around the corner of my room and he was dripping with oil. And as He was walking towards me He said, “Ryan this is the oil of the overcomers that I’m carrying and He said, I am ready to pour out the oil of the overcomers in this day and this hour.” And He stood next to me, and as He did that this oil came all over me, I remember sitting there as I was weeping in the chair, I was wiping the oil off my clothes.
Sid: Now you are saying in the physical this oil came on you?
Ryan: This was all in the physical Sid and I’m telling you as far as I’m concerned, and when I was looking at the Lord it was a physical manifestation of Jesus Christ in the room, and He literally walked into the room. And this physical oil was on Him and it was on me as well and you know Sid we’re in an hour, He gave me a revelation about the oil. Jesus is coming to the Body of Christ like and man dripping with oil. And it’s like in the Psalm of Solomon He came to the Shulamite woman, the king and he was dripping with oil, the Bible says His hair was dripping with the dew of the night, and he came and touches that doorknob of her house and there was oil dripping off of His hand. And you know they had had a moment of intimacy an intimate encounter, a season of intimacy, but he was now coming to her with that overcoming anointing and he was saying, it’s time to come out and conquer with me. She said, “I’m too comfortable, I’m dressed I’m ready for bed.” But there is a remnant, there is a people right now that the Lord is capturing, they are being captured and fascinated by the Lord’s heart, and He’s calling them, there is a people that’s been living in the secret place and He’s calling these people out of that secret place to conquer with Him and display the kingdom of heaven on earth as it is in heaven in this day. And when the Lord came to me in that encounter that’s how He came and said, “Ryan I am ready to pour out the oil of the overcomers.” And as I said, “It was dripping off of my clothes, my hair, and my skin. Then Sid the Lord began to, His face began to change and there was a groaning that came over Him, a type of intercession and weeping. And He said to me two things that have changed my life forever, the first thing He said was He said, “Ryan I am desperately hungry that I would have a people who lay hold of their full inheritance.” And He began to take me through visions of how we’re only living on a fraction of what He shed His blood to give us. He took me to Ezekiel 44 verse 28 where He was speaking to the priesthood. And He said, “I and I alone am to be your inheritance and I and I alone am to be your possession.” And He began to speak to me about a generation that would so possess the glory of the fullness of the glory of God that even that in the days of Israel where the pillar cloud and the pillar fire was there it would pale in comparison to the end time glory that we will carry as a body on the earth.
Sid: Is this why you did your series “How to Bring Heaven to Earth in Your Life.”
Ryan: Yes, it sparked everything for me Sid, my entire life message from this encounter is about seeing us get our inheritance and Jesus get His and that is a Body that brings the heaven’s to the earth. “On earth as it is in heaven.”
Sid: I want everyone everywhere to be born from above, but not just become religious; have intimacy with God; hear God’s voice accomplish their destiny; walk in the fullness of God. And that’s really what this new book by Keith Miller does, it allows you to walk in the fullness of God to understand his plan for your life to have intimacy with God. In fact Keith you were telling me that some of the comments that you’re getting often from people reading the book that it does such a depth encounter with God that it touches deep into your spirit. And on the book “Surrender to the Spirit” I asked you on yesterday’s broadcast and then I rudely interrupted you, “Did God tell you to write this book?” And your answer is?
Keith: Yes, He told me that it was almost like a mandate from the Lord and it was more than just writing a book, but it was something that we felt like the Lord commissioned us to do. And not just to bring information, but to bring about impartation through the revelation of the Word that was going to bring forth a demonstration of the Seven Fold flow of the Holy Spirit in the Believers life.
Sid: Speaking of impartation tell me about the time you received your impartation for what you’re doing today.
Keith: Well, when we began to realize the importance of impartation it began with a precious lady handing me a VCR tape. Janet and I went home and put that thing in the VCR. And in fact it kind of tells you how old I am and how long ago it was because on the remote control it still had a wire connected to it even though it was called a remote control. And we sat down there and we pushed play and all of sudden this guy comes on and he starts praying for people and they fall down and fall all over the place.
Sid: You didn’t see that in your Baptist church!
Keith: No, we didn’t see it we were going “What in the world?” And he took his coat and threw it all these people fell out and were going “What.” And we shut it off and…
Sid: Was that in the day where we also blew on people and they fell over?
Keith: Yes and he were blowing and… I call him the Woopie hair guy, I didn’t know who he was. Actually the lady said, “Hey this guy reminds me of you because you’re really on fire and radical.” I came in and I started watching this guy and I actually was offended by, not the people being touched by the power of God or even the coat. But at one point he said this, “Hey, there was a lady that had come up on the platform and he goes “Do you want this anointing baby?” I said, “Oh God, don’t call people baby.” And I shut off the VCR and I was so offended by the guy.
Sid: You were so religious, but go ahead.
Keith: I could not believe it, I said, “No way.” And so I put that tape up and I actually from the pulpit as a Senior Baptist preacher I preached against him saying that he was a heretic and not to ever go to his meetings. And I did that, but in 1994, that was ’92 when I saw the video, and 1994 man I woke up one morning and just deep, deep cry hunger hit me so deep in my inner man. I began to cry out to the Lord; What made me cry out to the Lord was I saw people come to the altar Sunday after Sunday after Sunday but never be in… and cry, weep, have a true heart, but never, never seeing transformation and always leaving the same way that they came in. I said, “Come on Lord, there’s got to be something more than this.” In fact we had so many young people get born again, baptized, then three months later we would never see them again. I said, “What’s going on?” And so I began to cry out and I started saying Lord, “What’s going on?” And Psalm 63 became my cry everyday. Every morning at 5:30 I started saying that passage of scripture was my life, I’m crying out, “Where are You, my flesh, my soul, everything that there is about me wants to see the power and glory of God in the sanctuary, where’s Your power, where’s Your glory?” And so for about three months I did that every morning. One morning I turned on the TV 5:30 and there he was on TV and I kind of shifting right through the cannels and didn’t watch him because I was offended by him. But as I was pushing the remote control I just went all the way back around, made a complete circle right back to where I started. As soon as I went back to that channel there was a little boy and he said, “Yes, all the kids at school made fun of me because I couldn’t run, but look what God did for me today.” And he started running back and forth on the platform and he begin to cry and the Momma and Daddy was standing there and they were crying, and the Evangelist Benny Hinn was crying, and I was crying. I sat in my front room 4:00-5:30 in the morning nobody around and I’m crying. I’m going yes Lord, this is what I’m talking about and all of a sudden He goes back to his studio setting, Benny does and he looks at the camera and he goes, and I made fun of this before and all of a sudden he says, “There’s a preacher and you’re in your front room floor and your crying right now saying that you want this anointing.” Well I get up and I look all around and I’m going, “What in the world.” And all of a sudden I started getting up every morning watching him and I saw the power of God, I saw people getting healed and one day I told my wife, I said “Hey Babe what do you think about this Benny Hinn guy and she looked at me, she said, “What?” Well, what do you think about him? I like him I’ve been watching him every day at 1:30, and see I’ve been getting up every day at 5:30 watching him. And we ended up going to Dallas and he picked us out the very back out of, I don’t know 3 to 5,000 people, and he come running back there and he said “Those two right there.” And I had just prayed, I’d just prayed this prayer “Lord I don’t know, I’m not looking to a man but I see what you’re doing through that man I want impartation, I want what he functioning in; I want to see the sick healed, I want to see people empowered by the power of the Holy Spirit.” And he comes running back there and picked us out and says he just said these words, “Take this anointing.” And we went down in the power of God and laid there on the floor and we went back to our church. That was Sunday morning and I hid oil behind my pulpit. I asked everybody in the congregation and I started reading different scriptures out of the Book of Acts and took them to James and I said, “Doesn’t it say in James if there’s any sick among you anoint them with oil?” And they all said “Yes.” And I said well today we just happen to have a bottle of oil right here. And I said, “If you are sick come up here.” And my whole front filled up with people, and I put a little dab of that oil on my finger and I went up there and touched, and the person they collapsed under the power or God. And we saw so many people get healed and ministered and that’s how it all kind of started with us in pursuit of the fullness of the Holy Spirit in our daily life.
Sid: Well, speaking of the fullness of the Holy Spirit we’re making available this week your new book “Surrender to the Spirit” and the subtitle is “The Limitless Possibilities of Yielding to the Holy Spirit.” People have been telling you that when they read this book it touches them so deep in their spirit. What other feedback are you getting on it?
Keith: Yeah, we’ve actually been amazed because even pastors and leaders are writing us and telling us, like here’s one precious gentleman that’s a pastor of that church in Houston, Texas. And he actually said “The revelation that I received out of the book of the “Sevenfold Flow of the Holy Spirit” was mind blowing to me, and the book does and outstanding job of illuminating the work of the Spirit in the life of the believer that will allow the Holy Spirit will walk them into the realm of the limitless possibility as they yield to Him. I’m an avid reader, but I have not read a book that’s spoke to my heart and challenged me more to live under the Holy Spirit’s control and anointing then “Surrender to the Spirit.” I have underlined and meditated each chapter and as I go back and reread I find something new each time, it’s a must read. And I know this pastor and he’s beginning to see and understand some of the different flows of the sevenfold flow of the Holy Spirit in his ministry now.
Sid: And now God gave you this revelation and that’s what it is and you don’t get touched that deep in the Spirit just from surface teaching. But God himself gave you this revelation through three angelic encounters.
Keith: That’s right.
Sid: We don’t have time to go into it, but perhaps we can start with the very first one.
Keith: Yeah it was during worship, actually I was doing a school as one of the speakers and it was my session. During the worship time I was just worshipping, and all of a sudden I mean it was just like that, it was all of a sudden boom I was just caught up in a prophetic encounter. And I was just literally caught up I saw this huge, I mean just this authoritive ,and I say busting in a sense real authoritive, strong angel of the Lord standing there looking at me and he said, “Open your mouth!” And I opened my mouth and he threw this something in my mouth and I felt it hit my mouth and I ate it and then I came out of the prophetic encounter and I sat down. And my whole team, my wife was there and several of my team, and my family and they all said, “What just happened to you?” And I said, “I don’t know man I ate a book or something I don’t even know what it was.” Immediately I knew in my spirit I heard Revelation 10 and Ezekiel 3 and so I marked those down in my book, in my Bible and have them to this day right and it was August 2002 and I knew something incredible just took place for me.
Sid: Very quickly tell me the two scriptures.
Keith: Revelation chapter 10 it talks about the angel of the Lord who told John and showed him the open book and he said, “Take the book and eat the book because you have many people to still to prophecy, many nations to go to” so he said, “Take the book and eat the book.” And Ezekiel 3, Ezekiel was told eat the scroll because I’m commissioning you to send you to the house of Israel.
Sid: Okay, consider yourself challenged.
Sid: My guest John McTernan, were discussing his brand new updated book called, “As America Has Done to Israel.” He has traced forty of the worse judgments that have hit in modern times in the United States in America and most are within 24 hours of going against Israel. But the reason that I have him on the show this week is that you must get this book. I mean it is so overwhelming the connection between God’s judgment or God’s blessings and what the United States does with Israel. John you called me on the phone a few months back, and there was an amazing thing that God had told you and it had to do with the United States once again pressuring Israel to do the most horrific thing Biblically that I can think of coming from Joel Chapter 3. Judgment will come to nations based on and it actually quoted; these are the exact words, “God says, for dividing up My land.” And He’s talking about Jerusalem so tell me what you told me on the telephone so our Mishpochah can hear.
John: Well Sid, I don’t know how long we’ve been going back together I would say ten years Sid?
Sid: That sounds good.
John: And I’ve been on your radio show and your TV show numerous times, and it always Sid when we interviewed you were kind of asking me what happened, but it was in the past and I would update you and your listeners and bring it kind of current. Nothing was happening at the very time that we we’re being interviewed it was more like updating what happened three months ago, six months ago and starting Sid late last year and we can get into this either today or another show but a speech the President gave in July 16th of 2007 President Bush, Junior a dread started to come over me. Just the feeling of awesomeness from the Lord Sid that we were in real trouble with Him; and this has built and it has built in my and it’s built in me since the President gave that speech.
Sid: You know, it almost sounds to me like the experience that Jeremiah had, Your word is like a fire burning inside of me.
John: Well Sid, yeah and it’s very frustrating from my point of view because I’m warning, I’m issuing these warnings, and it just falls on the most part deaf ears of the Church Sid.
Sid: But isn’t it a spiritual blindness just to say that the sin of murdering the child in the womb abortion. You see the United States is like divided down the middle on this, and people that are in favor of abortion it is as if they’re blind to what’s going on. And it’s that same blindness that you’re seeing in a great segment of the Church unfortunately.
John: Well Sid, you are right and added to that is the tremendous surge of the homosexual agenda Sid. And then we have kind of a rise of militant replacement theology in the Church where there actually siding with the Palestinians’ in very subtle ways, I think that it’s the Israeli’s but it’s becoming bolder and bolder and bolder as I study this. And then we have those Sid that don’t believe God judges that they believe the Bible judged in the Old Testament. And He’ll judge sometime in the future maybe the Book of Revelation but right now He doesn’t judge when He says He will Sid for interfering…
Sid: He’s just a sugar Daddy.
John: Yes. All of this Sid, all of this unbelief in proper doctrine; this mocking God worldliness has kind of added up Sid to where our nation is for the most part blinded before God. And He’s literally fulfilling His Word right before our very eyes and people are kind of like mocking Him laughing. So from my perspective this is perplexing Sid. I’m not, this doesn’t depress me or anything like that because God has given me a ministry to do it and I do it. And where the people respond or not is between them and the Lord. But its very perplexing to see God literally fulfilling His Word before our very eyes and to deny it Sid; this is, it’s spiritual, that’s all I can say this is not normal human thinking process. It says a spiritual blindness has fallen over millions of people that claim they believe the Bible Sid.
Sid: But I proclaim in Yeshua’s Name that those that read your book and those that are listening now that the light will penetrate blindness and they will receive what you say. Would you explain what God has shown you in the significance of what the United States is currently trying to do with Israel.
John: Well Sid, the United States is President Bush, Jr.’s last year starting in July in 2007 when he made the speech and then he followed it up with the Annapolis Conference, is trying to work a comprehensive peace plan with Israel and the Palestinians’, which means dividing the land into a Palestinian State and into an Israeli State. And Sid you’ve already quoted from Joel chapter 3 about how God judges the nations that do that. And Sid the United States is actively doing this behind the scenes to divide Jerusalem, it sort of come public in September; in fact it did come public which I will talk about either in this show or another show where the United States is working actively to divide Jerusalem into a capital of a Palestinian State. And we know Sid from God’s Word what He says about Jerusalem is going to be a burdensome stone and the nation, everybody that burdens themselves with it is going to be cut in pieces. And Sid every way along the path of President Bush going to Israel, Condalisa Rice going to Israel, Vice President Cheney going to Israel, or Omert who was the Prime Minister of Israel coming to the United Sates all along the line has been a melt down on that very day of United States economy. It’s been melting down as the United States has been pressuring Israel to divide the land and divide Jerusalem. Precisely on these days every economic debacle that we have run into Sid has been connected to dividing Jerusalem.
Sid: You even told me that you can pinpoint Hurricane Ike connected with it.
John: Yes Sid, yes and what happened was the Counselor General of the United States who is located in Jerusalem on Thursday, let me see if I got these dates right, I’m pulling out of my head it’s 9/11 because I remember 9/11. He brought it out officially that the United States was working in this peace plan between Israel and the Palestinians to divide Jerusalem. And immediately Condalisa Rice, now she didn’t but the spokesman for the State Department said “well these meetings were secret”, and they kind of denied that they were, but they didn’t really deny it. It was kind of put in what you wanted but the headlines that I have Sid is “The Counsel General saying that the United States is actively working with in this peace process to divide Jerusalem and on that day Hurricane Ike, that was on a Thursday. Hurricane Ike is bearing down on Texas Sid, which is the President’s home state, the man that is pursuing this plan to divide Israel. Hurricane Ike which is a monster storm that the meteorologist say is really like the biggest one that they’ve ever seen; it was 600 miles wide Sid. It stretched from into Louisiana all the way down to the Mexican border; it was massive in its size. It literally devastated the Texas coast. At the very next day after the Counsel General said that the United States was actively involved in the dividing of Jerusalem. And Sid where that was going on Lehman Brother’s bank was failing, Merrill Lynch was failing; so follow this scenario Sid, I want your listeners to be very…I want them to listen to this very carefully. On Thursday the idea comes out that the United is actively working to divide Jerusalem; On Friday night and Saturday morning Hurricane Ike slams into the coast of the United States wrecking havoc Sid on the width of it hit Galveston, annihilates the city of Galveston. Goes up into Texas does enormous damage to all sorts of towns, stops in Houston; Houston comes to a standstill. On Saturday and Sunday Lehman has failed, they’re trying to work some sort of plan out to save it, they can’t it’s the largest bank failure in history Sid; $639 billion. On Monday the stock market crashes and there have been economic convulsions since Sid, there has been Federal Reserve, the Treasury Department, Congress, the President, trying to hold this economy together. So immediately after the announcement that the United States was actively in the process of dividing Jerusalem we were hit by hurricane and we headed into arguably the worst economic crisis we have had since 1929 in the stock market….
Sid: John you document this so well in your updated book called, “As America Has Done to Israel.” I mean it’s not, I think he has a point, it’s overwhelming… …evidence. Do you know if people like the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, Senators, Congressman have read this book? I can’t imagine a Senator, a Congressman, or the Whitehouse reading this book and following the strategy that they’re following.
John: Sid I don’t know if I shared this with you or not but…
Sid: Oh you’re not going to do it right now we’re out of time but on tomorrow’s broadcast I’ll let you share it.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be explosively red hot for the Messiah, if not now when? I mean this is the moment of God pouring out His Spirit on all flesh like I haven’t seen I was a brand new believer. My guest Dr. Michael Brown, President of Fire School of Ministry, PhD in near Eastern languages and literatures from a secular university, New York University; reads, rights or understands at least twelve Semitic languages; considered one of the top Messianic Jewish scholars in the world. And tell me some new things that are going on right now at Fire School of Ministry Dr. Brown.
Michael: Well, we have just developed a one year program “Fire Immersion School” for everyone hungry for more of God. Maybe you’re not sure where you’re going next in life or just getting out of high school or needing a life change; an intensive one year immersion in the word, in the Spirit and in the things of God. It’s going to be extraordinary program starting this coming fall, this very year. Then we’re instituting for the next level, Fire Leadership Institute which is also going to have within it a School of Jewish Ministry. We’ve never had before a full focus, we’re bringing other top leaders and teachers to help train; that’s going to be part of our Fire Leader Institute. So some real neat things happening, if folks go to your website they’ll get a link to my website, go to Fire. Find out what’s happening. It’s an extraordinary time, and God’s moving in our midst.
Sid: Okay, I am troubled over something you take on head on in your new book that we’re featuring this week, “What do Jewish People Think about Jesus” and other questions Christians ask about Jewish beliefs, practices and histories and mostly questions you’ve never even thought of asking. But you will find fascinating, it’s going to open up the New Testament like you’ve never had it opened up before. But I am troubles over all of these titles Dr. Brown, prophet this, apostle that, Rabbi this, what about the term Rabbi? I read a commentary recently and it said, “Rabbi has the connotation of someone exalted, this would be the last thing Jesus would want his disciples to be called, exalted.
Michael: Of course I deal with the question in my book and lay out both sides of the issue. I want to try and summarize that and then give you my heartfelt reaction. First I think all the title stuff is wrong, be it apostle, or prophet this or teacher this, or pastor this. You know people call me Dr. Brown, it’s a certain point of reference like a medical doctor, PhD doctor or whatever, but in terms of a spiritual title you know I’m Mike Brown, Scott Fold who leads Fire Congregation is Scott. Our guys in our midst that are apostolic or prophetic they’re just Bob or Josh or whoever, they are just people and I don’t see the need. Listen I understand certain cultures people like to have it, I have friends of mine, black brothers who are pastors, and have churches under them and they’re called bishop. And the New Testament in the King James makes reference to that office of bishop, I understand why people do it. I certainly don’t judge the motivation of hearts. But come on to hand me a business card with the name Apostle so and so it you know I…
Sid: Let’s get closer to home, the title Rabbi.
Michael: I respect my Messianic friends that use the title and the reasons they have for using it. Personally I’m not at home with it, I chose in my book to give the evidence both ways and to give the discussion, and then to raise the point that within Israel Messianic Jewish leaders do not use the Rabbi title. I decided because of the nature of the book…
Sid: Listen, Mike I find guys that have ten people they call it a congregation, they’ve had no training, they call themselves Rabbi, and they get instant respect in the Christian community. I have a problem there.
Michael: Listen, here’s my personal opinion, I have a problem there also, I think it actually hurts our witness to the Jewish community. I’ll tell you why, a lot of our, we have Messianic “Rabbi’s who are Gentiles.” We have rabbis’ who can’t even read Hebrew, we have Messianic Rabbis’ who are you know more Holy Ghost Christians than anything else, is that wrong to be a Holy Ghost Christian? No, but when you’re just going to put a yarmulke on, put on a prayer shawl, use a couple of Hebrew prayers in a service, it discredits Jesus, it makes it look as if He’s also superficial, it makes it look as if…
Sid: All right you go into detail in the book. Tell me something about Hasidic Jews, what are Hasidic Jews?
Michael: Okay Hasidic Jews are groups of Jews that grew out of the 18 century, a man named Baal Shem Tov reacted against the rigid formalism of the Orthodox in his day, a rigid formalism with massive emphasis on study and a certain legalism to it. He broke away from it and emphasized instead a mystical connection with God, and that a shepherd in a field could cry out and have a mystical connection with God. The controversy was so great in the early days that the Orthodox Jews excommunicated the Hasidic Jews; they have persevered to the point that they are one of the larger groups of ultra-Orthodox Jews in the world today. They are characterized by this emphasis on great devotion, mystical connection to God and then in particular they put emphasis on their spiritual leader that they call the Rebbi.
Sid: Okay well speaking of spiritual leaders, in New York City, and Israel you see billboards of a Rabbi that died by the name of Rabbi Shearson. Who is he and why do they have billboards?
Michael: Rabbi Shearson died in ’94 at the age of 92; he was the Grand Rabbi, or the Rebbi, of the Lubavitch sect of Hasidic Jews. I lay out all the stuff in my book, names, terms, backgrounds etcetera. They began to believe that he was the Messiah, they had mystical reasons for it, he helped spread Judaism around the world. They said that he must be the Messiah and then he had a stroke, he couldn’t speak, they said, “Ah hah, Isaiah 53 said he’d be like a lamb going to the slaughter couldn’t speak,” etcetera, and then he died, which shocked them all. Listen these guys were wearing beepers around the world in the early nineties waiting for the beeper to go off that the Rebbi had revealed himself as the Messiah. Instead the word came out that he died, you said that was the end of it. They said, “No, he spiritually rose,” they said that, “His death was just a test of our faith.” Some said that, “He would return,” some say “He would return,” and they to this day many of them believe that he is king messiah, and they go around proclaiming him as messiah and calling Jews to return to traditional Judaism etcetera.
Sid: But after all of these years they still believe many of them that he’s messiah?
Michael: Oh, listen this movement has actually grown, it’s quite amazing the movement has grown.
Sid: Well listen if they believe a messiah is going to die and come back from the dead that’s not a big stretch then to Jesus.
Michael: Oh, this is tremendously exploited; I began to write on it immediately, others have said, “Hang on guys, you said the Messiah couldn’t die before he completed his mission, that he couldn’t rise from the dead, return etcetera, etcetera. Check this out now, some of them even believe that he carries within himself the essence of God, some of them even teach that’s it’s acceptable to pray towards him.
Sid: Oh, what a people group to reach. Tell me a bit about the cause and then this is a loaded question because of the shortness of time; the cause of so much anti-Semitism historically and even today.
Michael: There’s no question that the Jewish people have been the most hated people, hated for the longest period of time, the most vicious ongoing widespread irrational hatred. There are various reasons, people say that it’s economic, people say it’s because Jews are different, people say because you have to find a scape goat, people say it’s because of Christianity. None of the reasons fully check out, there is universal anti-Semitism because God chose the Jews through whom to reveal Himself and to send His Messiah. And the reason for anti-Semitism is because satan hates God, therefore satan hates the Jews, and wants to wipe them out and destroy them. It is the ultimate reason for it. And Sid I’ve given lectures at Yale and Columbia and laid those things out and nobody was able to come up with a better answer.
Sid: Why should someone read your new book “What do Jewish People think about Jesus and Much, Much More?”
Michael: Well, Jesus Himself is Jewish, the New Testament was written against a Jewish background, there’s daily controversy over the nation of Israel today. There are Christians swing on all sides of the board, there are all kinds of Messianic Jewish beliefs, there are Messiah Jews that start well and then end up with weird fringed beliefs.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with LaDonna Taylor. And LaDonna, do you remember the first time you stepped into full time ministry? Now of course as a 12-year-old, you would play the violin and people would be healed. But the first time you stepped into full time ministry, tell me what happened.
LaDONNA: I was ministering a service. I didn’t know what to do, except tell my life story. So I told the life story, and I invited the people to come to the altar for the laying on of hands to be healed, proclaiming that Jesus is their healer and miracle worker. Everyone that came was healed.
SID: How many came?
LaDONNA: About 50 or 60 people.
SID: That’s quite a way to start.
LaDONNA: Praise the Lord.
SID: Where do you go from here? But you told me, and I love the way you said it. You said that God gets into the notes of what you play. Elaborate on that.
LaDONNA: I’m not sure how to even elaborate on it. But I know He permeates the sound waves. You know, music is a very powerful force on this earth. Science even knows that. You know, when you go shopping, music to influence you everywhere.
LaDONNA: But how much more when God gets in the notes and those notes, music can literally go straight to your spirit, bypassing doubt in your soul area and go straight to your inner being.
SID: I like that. Now I had the privilege of meeting and getting to know a little bit, Katherine Kuhlman. And she had favorite songs. The reason they were favorite is she knew that God liked it. And she would have these songs played every service. Now do you feel that there are certain songs that cause God to operate specific gifts?
LaDONNA: I absolutely do. And this was a learning experience for me. I barely knew how to stand behind a microphone when I started full time ministry, 13 years ago. Well I just started noticing certain songs, everybody’s back would be healed, certain other songs, deaf ears would open, and I started seeing the pattern.
SID: The song, “Here I Am to Worship,” most of us know that. What does God do when you play that music?
LaDONNA: I’ve seen many, many cases of fibromyalgia disappear within seconds, just instant.
SID: Are there, like there’s other songs that you have, that you see specific diseases get healed. Tell me one.
LaDONNA: “Amazing Grace”, such a beautiful, beautiful piece of music.
SID: It is.
LaDONNA: The whole world knows that music. Bones, adjustment, alignment, ligaments during that music.
SID: I am going to ask LaDonna to go to the music set right now and play, “Here I Am to Worship” and here’s what’s going to happen. People actually feel arthritis being sucked out of them as she plays music. Anything you need. Don’t pray for what you need. Pray to get closer to the Lord. LaDonna Taylor, “Here I Am to Worship”.