Sid: My guest by telephone Lexington, South Carolina is William Morford. He is the translator “The Power New Testament” revealing Jewish roots. It’s the most readable alive action packed translation of the New Testament that I have ever read. I am so enjoying myself as I read this Bill. And I have to tell you even though I’m a Jewish believer in the Messiah; even though I come from a traditional Jewish background there are things that you have reveled in especially in your glossary in the back about Jewish understanding that is so necessary and vital to understand the New Testament the Jewish roots that I have never seen before. And I’m sure that it has to do with God happened to hook you up with a Rabbi who is a grandson of the man that resurrected modern day Hebrew. Actually made a number of the words up and put them together, Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, and he knew these nuggets that so few people understand. I’d like you teach some of these unique nuggets for us now Bill.
Bill: Alright, one that comes as a surprise to some is the personal greetings at the end of Romans with chapter 16 with verse 1. “And I am introducing our sister Phoebe to you since she is also a minister of the congregation in Cenchrea, so that you would welcome her in the Lord as befitting as saints and you would stand by her in whatever matters she would have need of you. For she has also become a patroness of many even of me.” And that’s what Paul wrote. And a patroness, here she’s called a servant sometimes. Well the Greek word used could be translated servant, but she’s a minister. You can tell by the way he refers to it to welcome her in the Lord as befitting the saints and you would stand by her in whatever matters she would have need of you. In other words they are to be looking out to help her to be servants to her. And of course why would you send a servant from Greece to Rome where there were thousands of tens of thousands of slaves and slaves were cheap. I mean that wouldn’t be done, but she was a minister in the congregation of Cenchrea, and she was a Patroness, that means a woman set over others. So in some way she was set over Paul. And just what her relationship was we don’t know. Because the Middle Eastern mind still is not a tuned to our western love for organization charts and such things. They did not look at a line organization, but they were apostles that were sent out from Rome. And obviously Phoebe had some authority some responsibility in the operations of taking the gospel to the heathen land.
Sid: But this so changes the understanding we see in the King James, or the modern translations. This is just an example Mishpochah and it’s all explained in his footnotes and his glossary. Give us some more illustrations.
Bill: Alright, 1st Corinthians 16 again same chapter number same verse number. “Concerning the collection for the saints as I ordered the congregation of Galatia so also must you now do. On Saturday evening at the Havdalah Service each of you must now set aside for himself from his treasuries from whatever he would have gained so that whenever I would have come so that collections would not need to be made. And when I would arrive whomever you would approve through letters I will send them to send your gift to Jerusalem. And if it would be worthwhile for me to go they will go with me.” For you know what the Havdalah Service is that at the end of the Sabbath 2 hours after sundown there is a service in the synagogue to transfer the congregation from the holy Sabbath day, the time with the Lord back to the work a day world, to going out among the heathens to work. At that service they could talk about money. See people look on this as the first day of the week.
Sid: They think that it’s the Sunday yeah.
Bill: And it is not a Sunday service this is a Saturday evening service to move from the holy time with the Lord back to the secular time of work out in the world. And that Havdalah Service is still held today in synagogues all over the world.
Sid: Again Mishpochah there is no way that you could understand this. You see how rich this Bible is. But I’m going to tell you something if the Jewish roots were not in it and you were to just read this to understand healing and the action and the Gospel’s that’s brought out in this amazing translation it would have worth it. But somehow by combining the understanding of the Jewish roots and the power and the expression that you have in the translation that you have of these powerful scriptures of what God has granted to us, the combination of the two is releasing the power.
Bill: It really is, yes. Another good one that we don’t know about is 2nd Corinthians 12:7 “And in the superiority of the relations we have on this account so that I would not exalt myself a thorn in the flesh was given to me a messenger of Satan so that he could strike me so that I would not exalt myself.” And there’s a great deal of speculation about this thorn is it a reference to some physical problem or to troublesome people. There is no way to be certain. But painful thorn is a metaphor for a menacing neighbors in Ezekiel 28:24. And the Greek word scallops translated thorn actually pointed to a sturdy pointed piece of wood a pike which upon a body could be impaled. It most likely was not a physical problem because whoever those people were or whoever they were they really got under Paul’s skin. So he refers to it as not as a little tiny rose thorn but as a plate being driven into him. And thorn is a good translation of it, but it’s not a physical thorn. We know that from Paul’s references to the false apostles who went around and exalted themselves and had letters of recommendation from one congregation to another. Paul really disliked them they and the Nicolaitanes gave Paul fits. He was really unhappy because he had to go back to those congregations again to straighten out their theology and bring correction to them.
Sid: Let’s go to Ephesians 5:25.
Bill: Alright fine that’s a good one. “Husbands you must continually love your wives just as the Messiah also loved the congregation and gave Himself over on her behalf so that He would sanctify his wife, the congregation the Bride, making her pure by washing with the word of Torah in order that He would present for Himself the glorious congregation not having spot or wrinkle or any of such things, but so that His bride would be holy and without blemish.” And there’s a footnote to that verse that water is a metaphor for Torah. And that’s taken from Isaiah 55:1 and Exodus 14:22 so that it makes it washing with the word of the Torah. And that the way that we are to take cover each other and the husband as the priest of the home has to bathe his entire household in prayer. Then coming from the scripture and quote God’s healing verses and all of God’s blessings over his household and do that on a daily basis. It’s something that we do continually. Matthew 7:7 we have Jesus speaking “You must regularly ask and it will be given to you. You must continually seek and you will find. You must knock habitually and it will be open to you. For everyone that asks takes and everyone who seeks finds and it will be open for the one that knocks. For what man is there of you that when his son will ask for bread will give him a stone, or then would ask for a fish will give over him a snake. And see we must do these things continually and regularly.”
Sid: I like your translation that says “Everyone who asks takes.”
Sid: That’s where that “Power New Testament” comes in.
Bill: Right and very often there are two different Greek words that mean take and they’re very frequently translated “Receive.”
Sid: I’ll tell you Mishpochah I’m sure you’re getting the message. Between the power that’s understood from this particular translation of the New Testament and the Jewish roots what a combination.
Sid: Now one of the tools that has crossed my hands that I saw a few years ago, but I’ve just started to get into it very deep is a New Testament. It’s called “The Power New Testament.” And this is a very very unique translation of the New Testament. I have the translator on the phone, William Morford. Some of the things that makes this unique is the Bill has studied the Jewish Roots of the faith. I happen to believe, and Bill and I were discussing this, that if we go back to what some people consider sacred you know the language that Jesus spoke King James. And of course we know that He didn’t even speak English let alone King James. Bill there was really an anti-Jewish prejudice in the translators of the King James and way even before that of course because that’s where the church was. But even some of the modern translations because of this Jewish prejudice have really missed some important things in the New Testament. As a Greek scholar, as someone that’s studied the Jewish Roots, studied Hebrew from as far as I’m concerned the best Jewish Rabbi on the face of this earth to study this from. Are you frustrated when you read some of these modern translations including the King James?
Bill: Well, I don’t read them anymore.
Sid: (Laughing) So you’re not frustrated anymore.
Bill: I’ve done right so I haven’t read others for oh my goodness must be 10 years because I read the Greek text while I was translating my first addition. And it was very frustrating to read other translations and see things that were incorrect. It just missed the point that the author of the New Testament was trying to make.
Sid: And I have to say something Bill and you obviously you can’t say this and I’m going to say this. I believe that you had supernatural help in this translation. There’s something so riveting it’s almost like I’m reading the Bible for the first time.
Bill: Well it was I prayed every day before working on the translation and it was something that I did personally because I was driven to do it. I know that the Lord appointed me for it. So everything was done in prayer and I had really superior reference books to use and excellent advisers to help me through some of the most difficult passages.
Sid: Now going back to the beginning the average Christian, and you made a serious commitment to the Lord at age 17 coming from a Baptist background does not study Greek? Why did you?
Bill: (Laughing) It was unusual; there was a member in our church who had just come back from the mission field in Zambia. And he had his PhD in Greek and he taught Zambian natives to read the Greek text and sent them out into the field and here we have American seminaries that have stopped requiring Greek because it’s too difficult and here he had the natives in the bush that he taught to read Greek. It’s just awesome. But anyway he was in the church and just offered to teach me and anyone else that was interested in learning Greek. So there was two of us that started and then within a month or so the other one dropped off and he and I had really precious time together as he tutored me personally for over 2 years.
Sid: Then you determined to really learn Greek by translating the scriptures and after 7 years of this the Lord spoke to you about doing something. What did He say?
Bill: “Get serious it’s time to really get serious and do a translation.” And to me that was a frightening prospect because taking on scripture is something that each of us has to take very, very seriously.
Sid: Now in retrospect I see why God told you to do this this is a unique translation. However at the time I think I might have said “God what do you need another translation of Your Bible for?
Bill: Well, I knew that; because there were so many things in it that angered me where the missed Hebrew idioms, or they had…
Sid: Okay when you say the terms Hebrew idiom, define idiom and give me an example of a Hebrew idiom that we might have missed.
Bill: Well, an idiom is a saying that you have in one language that wouldn’t mean the same thing in another language. And one my wife likes to use is that we talk about we use is we talk about it raining dogs and cats. And you know any foreigner hearing that would wonder what’s going on. But some of those in the Hebrew that are in the Greek language they are Hebrew idioms that are written in the Greek text that we have.
Sid: Now I asked you to give me an example of this but I have to tell you I’ve been writing down so many examples of these idioms that there’s no way to understand it. For instance in Matthew 15:22 and in many instances there were people that were sick and they were running to Jesus and they were saying “Have mercy on us.” And what is that an idiom for when you when you ask for mercy?
Bill: It’s asking for forgiveness.
Sid: Now there is no way that anyone would realize that that’s what someone is saying.
Sid: And maybe that’s just one of the missing keys as to why people aren’t getting healed.
Bill: That’s true because not only are we asking for forgiveness but Jesus gave us that requirement in the Lord’s prayer that we have to forgive others first before we even ask God to forgive us. We can’t have any un-forgiveness and of course people that have forgiveness are going to have a barrier that keeps them from a healing.
Sid: Now, you started working on this translation. You moved to Lakeland, Florida and you met Eliezer Ben-Yehuda whose is the grandson of Eliezer Ben-Yehuda the one that literally put together what we call modern day Hebrew. That must have been a fascinating time for you to fellowship with him.
Bill: Oh it was awesome; we became very close. He and his wife; in fact they were with us over Memorial Day weekend this year.
Sid: What is he just out of curiosity and I don’t want to put you or him on the spot, has he seen the work that you’ve done and what does he think of it?
Bill: Oh, he thinks that this is the best translation out there, but of course he has more than a dozen reasons why Jesus cannot be the Messiah.
Sid: That’s his problem, but let me tell you something as a Jewish believer in the Messiah I am just overwhelmed with the information that I wasn’t aware of. For instance, it was worth me reading this new translation for one word. You talk about sickness and you say that the Greek really although we put the word sickness in the Greek really means evil. I never heard that before.
Bill: Well, that’s the word that’s in there “Kakos” and it means evil.
Sid: So someone that says “Well God has just given me sickness so that I’ll learn a lesson.” That’s almost like saying God has just put some evil on me so I’ll learn to be a better person.
Sid: I mean when you really get technical I mean that is wonderful, I mean it’s bad that someone would think such theology but it is wonderful to understand that the word translated sickness really is evil. And as a matter of fact you had some problems with sickness and you had a revelation on healing. And I happen to believe that this “Power New Testament” revealing Jewish roots because of your understanding of healing you could bring out scriptures much clearer from the Greek that really explains even the tenses of what the Messiah was saying which makes a big difference in our understanding.
Bill: Oh, it does and see I think that one of the things that helped me to do this compared to other translations, other translators. Is that we my wife and I are hands on ministers and when we lay hands on others and on each other and we expect to be healed. We see healings every time we minister. But see the translators of the major books are all chosen because of scholarship and they’re people that live in Ivory towers. They may not even be born again, and they definitely are not hands on ministers who believe in healing. We know that it’s healing my goodness my eyes were healed.
Sid: What do you mean “My eyes were healed?” Like for instance you wore glasses?
Bill: I wore glasses; yes and it was in March of 1984 we were in Israel and we were talking and I made the comment that “The Lord had healed the eyes of a friend of our back home.” And one of the people with us said “Well yeah He could heal your eyes too.” And I said “Yes He’s going to give me a sign when I should take my glasses off.” And the very next morning while we were waiting for the bus we were on a Benny Hinn tour a young girl with us was cold. And this was maybe 6 or 7 o’clock in the morning. So I gave he my jacket. And when I got the jacket back the glasses that had been in their case in the inside pocket the glasses were broken. So when we got home they stayed broken and roughly 2 months later driving down the road on my way in the morning I could see street signs way…
Sid: Stop, we’re out of time.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Pastor Charles Cowan; he’s Pastor of the 2000 member Faith Is The Victory Church in Nashville, Tennessee. And he’s just written a new book the title is one that you need to read it’s called “How to Deal with the Cares of Life.” The Bible has much to say about this, and on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about a catch word that’s used in the medical profession a lot it’s called stressed. Although it’s a catch word because the doctors don’t know what the real cause of diseases might be. It a real situation, it’s our response to external stimulus, but there is something that has overcome that. It’s the word of God and it’s the one thing to intellectually know the word of God; but it’s another thing to have the word of God in your heart where it becomes more real than the external stimulus. Then this stress can’t get hold of you, like unfortunately it has with many Christians as much with Christians as non-Christians, it should not be, it will not be. Charles at the beginning of your book you talk about a great move of God’s Spirit and what the devil is trying to do is to get us out of position so we won’t be ready to fulfill our destiny. And in the beginning of your book you talk about an experience that you had and I think that when we become real and we talk about those in the pulpit talk about “You know I go through the same challenges and the same problems that you do. Let me tell you what happened to me when I was flying on an airplane.” Tell us that story.
Charles: Okay, well you know and that is true; what we preach from the pulpit we have to walk it just like anyone else does. I was on a plane out of Nashville and we had to take an early one morning and we were on our way to Dallas, Ft. Worth. And we had gotten up to our flying altitude and we’re flying along rather smoothly when all of a sudden the pilot, the captain, put the plane into a very sharp descent. And just for a few seconds I’m sure it seemed like a long time but just for a few seconds there wasn’t anything said in the plane the plane was in this almost felt that it was in a nose dive. And then he came on the intercom and told the flight attendants to take their seat; buckle their seatbelts and then there were a few more seconds. Well, in this few seconds this emotion; I began to feel this emotion of fear. And you know fear there are 2 or 3 different kinds of fear; fear #1 you know is the fear of God which is reverence for God. Then there is a cautious type of fear where if your person’s crossing the street should look both ways and make sure of their safety. And then there is this fear that is called a spirit; Paul wiring to Timothy said “God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and a sound mind.” So from without I began these emotions I began to feel these emotions and thoughts began to flood my mind. And my thought were “This plane is going to crash; this plane is going down; you’re going to die.” There I am in the midst of that and Satan is using this circumstance and this situation to flood my mind and to drive me away from what God has said about my safety and about my protection. Because the word of God says “He’s given His angels charge over us to keep us in all of our ways to keep us up in their hands less we dash our foot against a stone.” He’s also told us that “No weapon formed that is formed against us shall prosper.” And so there in my mind all of these thoughts were coming.
Sid: But just as the plane suddenly plunged downward you know all of these things but in that moment was fear a very tangible emotion that was happening to you?
Charles: Sid, it felt really, it felt as though that I could actually taste it. I mean it was very, very real it was a most powerful emotion and it came so unannounced. When that plane started down and it just… what it does it tries it best to frighten an individual out of their senses. I used to hear when I was growing up you know and someone would pull… you know hide behind the door or whatever in the dark and then jump out. You know and I’ve heard people say “That just scared me out of my mind.” See that’s what Satan seeks to do with these things that we face many times and he seeks to scare us out of our spiritual mind and get us to thinking in a carnal type mind and buy into whatever that has brought on this emotion of fear. So he was trying to get me to buy into the thought “The plane is going to crash; you’re going to die, you’ll never see your family again,” and all of those kind of thoughts that come. So what he was trying to do he was trying to displace me in my thought life and buy into what was happening at the moment. And so thank God the word of God was in me and so I just began to say “No weapon formed against me shall prosper, God has given His angels charge over me; God is my protector; God will take care of me.” And then the thought rushes in there “Well, how do you think He’s going to take care of you now this plane is going to crash?” So in my mind I was fighting this battle in my mind. Which every believer, every person listening to this broadcast has to face these, maybe not this same situation but has to face these thoughts that come and bring war and bring warfare. You know Paul said “The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but they’re mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds; casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.”
Sid: Is this what James was referred to saying “That a double-minded man is unstable in all of his ways?
Charles: This is exactly what he was referring to; he is double-minded man; Satan wants to…he wants to get you to think about what’s on the other side of the coin as it were. You’re here thinking what God says. He wants to get you thinking about what’s happening in your life at this moment in time. And so what if he gets you thinking about that and then you try to go back and thinking the word; what the word of God says then you’re thinking about the present moment and situation. And get you to vacillate between the two you become double-minded, or in other words you have encountered a distracted mind. You know the scripture teaches us that “He will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him.” And it doesn’t matter really in God’s view it doesn’t matter what’s going on around me, all that matters to God is what He said. So I have to be sure that Satan doesn’t distract me to the point that I just move the word of God over to the side and think only these thoughts Satan is bringing to me. I’ve got to give God my words, I’ve got to give Him my thoughts so that His power that’s in His word can bring to me the deliverance that I need; the help that I need at that moment in time. And so that’s what I found myself doing.
Sid: Okay, so you took this sudden plunge, fear hits you it’s tangible; what did you do?
Charles: I just began to take a hold of my senses, my mind, and I just began to say what the word of God has to say about my safety and about my protection and about what God has stated in His word that He will do for me. I’ve set my love upon Him and you know it says “There things shall not come nigh me; it shall not be able to overcome me.” And so I just began to speak the word of God because you see if my thinking gets over here in the wrong area; my words are going to be in the wrong area. So I put my mind back on the word of God; so it was a fight to do that. It wasn’t the easiest thing to do in my life. But I made myself I made my mind get back over here on what God says. And no matter what was going on around me; no matter what Satan had planned for my life that day I knew that God’s plan for my life was to do His will…
Sid: But things kept getting worse, I mean the plane started shaking; you went into a freezing storm, the pilot came on with problems there was ever worse things going on that he didn’t tell you about. I mean did you find yourself going up and down like a yo-yo as far as what was going on with this fear?
Charles: When this comes against you when things of this nature or problems come against you what you have to make the decision to do is that you’re going to stabilize yourself in your thought life. Yeah, there was opportunity for me to be up and down like a yo-yo. It was an opportunity for me to say “It doesn’t look like God is going to come through.” It was an opportunity to feel like God was a million miles away; maybe He had hung a sign on the door out to lunch or something. But I forced myself to stabilize my thoughts that God would protect me; God is my protector; God is the one who keeps me safe and I will dwell upon those thoughts. I just kept making my mind think that because I knew that I couldn’t fight a thought with a thought. I had to fight those thoughts with words. So I found out that when I say something and I hear myself saying it my mind had to stop and to listen to what I was saying.
Sid: But so in affect you had to make a freewill decision which set of thoughts you would go on.
Charles: That’s it and if you don’t do that; if an individual doesn’t do that when cares of life come against them if they don’t do that they’ll do exactly what you said. They’ll be like a yo-yo. Today…
Sid: Charles we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast. Mishpochah how would you like to stay connected with God no matter what external stimuli comes your way. No matter what problems come your way; this book teaches you how to do it.
Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah. He’s a Messianic Jew by the name of Ron Cantor I’m actually speaking to him by way of telephone and he’s at his home just outside of Tel Aviv, Israel. And Ronnie about 10 years ago you made aliyah; that’s a Hebrew word that means that you go up. And wherever a Jew is north, south, east or west when they go back home to Israel it’s considering going up. And when they move Israel permanently for the diaspora for the nations that’s considered going down. I like going up, anyway you wrote a book explaining the Jewish roots of the faith that very few Christians have ever even entertained ever even thought of; ever even heard. Most ministers don’t know what you put into this book. And God said “Stop, rewrite it.” And you must have been a little concerned. God told you to make it a novel but work all of these historical facts into the novel. Now tell me about the novel and tell me a couple of experiences that the character had in the novel.
Ron: Well you know when we did rewrite it as a novel it was to that very thing to take all of these facts but put it in a format that people would enjoy that they wouldn’t be able to put down. I’ve gotten so many emails Sid from pastors, a Jewish guy emailed me over the summer and he said he couldn’t put it down. Then 2 weeks later he got born again. So we wrote it for believers and then I started hearing about Jewish unbelievers reading this book and for the first time seeing Jesus as the Jew that He was and is. So what we did was the character David who was a reporter in Philadelphia; he’s searching; he wants to know the truth and he realizes as a young father and husband that he needs to know God. And he’s interested in Yeshua and he also knows that as a Jew that’s forbidden. And it’s at that point that he has a visitation from an angel. One of the things that the angel shows him is how Jewish people through the centuries had viewed him. For instance, he gets to watch a movie; he goes back to ancient Jerusalem; watches a movie about a woman who had encountered Yeshua. And her view of him was He’s a Jew; he’s the Messiah. There was no controversy, but as time goes on and you had the crusades where 10′s of 1000′s of Jewish people were murdered by the Catholic crusaders as they marched across Europe into Israel you begin to see the Jewish understanding change of Yeshua. Because what happened was that Jewish people associated Jesus with Christianity, or I should say institutionalized Christianity. We don’t believe that these crusaders were genuine believers they just had a cross on their shield that was about it. They didn’t have one in their hearts. Then he gets to see what a young Jewish boy goes through in the inquisitions where his family being forced to become Catholic converts. And their father well, I don’t want to tell the whole story but what he goes through is agonizing his story. And then of course he actually ends up in the holocaust where he hears a first young Jewish boy suffered in the holocaust. And by that time when I wrote it Sid I was hoping Sid by the time I got to that point in the book that reader would be hooked. And I read it first to my daughter because she… I didn’t mentioned this in the previous broadcast but when I was debating whether or not to rewrite it my youngest daughter she’s now in the Israeli Defense Forces; I said to her “Danielle I have this idea I feel like God wants me to rewrite the book as a novel and what do you think?” And I explained the vision and she “Dad, you’ve got to do it!” And I said “Okay, I’m going to work on it all day today and tomorrow I’m going to read you these first few chapters.” I began to read the first few chapters to her the next morning; and Sid when I got about 4/5 of the way through she burst into tears. Now this is my older teenage daughter and it’s a story that she knew her dad made up and yet she was so touched by it she just broke into tears. And that is what I’ve gotten emails and comments on Amazon.com and other places, Facebook. I had a woman the other day, and it doesn’t sound very humble saying this, but it really was a revelation from God this book. She said “Ron, this is the best book I have ever read in my life.”
Sid: Ron address this question, how did something that was obviously so Jewish; in fact let’s build that case right now. Why does the New Testament so Jewish?
Ron: Well, just look at the words of Yeshua He’s said “I came to lost sheep of the the House of Israel.” He was not born in Rome; Mary was not a Catholic, she was a Jewish girl an Israeli named Mariam; John was not a Baptist preacher he was actually a Jewish prophet prophesying the coming of the Messiah. This was a Jewish story and all of the original believers were 100% Jewish; they were not preaching in Galatia or in Ephesus the years following the resurrection of Yeshua. They were preaching in Jerusalem and in Galilee all over Israel, Akko and in mass were coming to faith but there is no evidence that it ever even entered into their mind that this was something other than Judaism.
Sid: Okay, so then that begs the question then Ron “If everything was so Jewish at the beginning, which it was, then how did it make such a change where a Jewish person like you or me didn’t have a clue the New Testament was about Jews, for Jews written by Jews?”
Ron: That’s a great question and what happened is that it started really quite early; once the Gentiles started coming into the Kingdom as you know there was a controversy whether they had to become Jewish. And Acts 15 says that they didn’t and they… but they quickly outnumbered the Jewish people. And then you have according to a Roman’s historian in the year 49 Claudius the Roman Emperor he kicked out all of the Jews from Rome; they had to leave. And Messianic Jews and non-Messianic Jews and they were gone for about 5 or 6 years. And during that time the Roman believers, which was probably a group of house congregations, they developed a theology that God was done with Israel, God had finished with Israel, and they were now the new Israel. So in the year 55 – 56 Claudius dies and the Jews are allowed back into Rome. So these Jewish believers they go back to their congregation but now they’re treated like second class citizens. The Gentiles who had been leading it now for the past 4 or 6 years begin to treat them very poorly. Now if you have that bit of information then suddenly the book of Roman’s makes sense why it’s called so insisting that the gospel is to the Jew first. Then in Roman’s 11 he makes such a strong case that God has not rejected Israel. And then in the middle of that chapter he warns the Roman believers that if God could break them off then He could break you off too. Don’t be arrogant but be afraid in how you treat the Jewish people.
Sid: Well in light of that verse that you just read what would you say to someone that believes today God is finished with the Jew. He wants Jewish people to know Him but he’s finished with the Jew as a distinct people; He is finished with the call of the Jew, and as a matter of fact, they’re kind of anti-Semitic because they say that the Jews killed Christ.
Ron: Right, what I would say to that person I would say “Be careful, really with all the compassion and love that I have please be careful because that’s a dangerous place to be.” Read Roman’s 11 it says very clearly that if the Gentile Church turns against Israel that God will have a big problem with those people and that’s what happened. Who did Paul write Romans to? The Romans and what did the Roman Church become; it became a church that rejected the Jewish people; it solidified the theology that the church has replaced Israel. And within a very short time the Catholic Church was nothing but a museum of dead tradition and works righteousness. They judged Israel and then they became the very thing that they judged. Now I know that there are many godly Catholics that believe in Yeshua that are born again; but as an institution they begin to create traditions that you can’t find in the Bible. And they begin to persecute the Jewish people and God says “Don’t be arrogant but be afraid; if I can cut off the natural branches I can cut you off as well.
Sid: Well, as you point out the dividing line between the true believers and the false believers in the last days will be “Do you have the same position on the Jew in Israel as God has; and if you have that same position you’re going to move into the same works that Jesus has done and even greater. And if you don’t have that position you’re going to move I heresy and further error.” By the way, to the question of the Jews killed Christ. This is what Paul says in Acts 4:27 (This is who killed Jesus by the way) Acts 4:27 “For truly against your Holy Servant Jesus whom you anointed (Now here’s who killed Him) Herod, Pontius Pilate, the gentles and the people of Israel were gathered together to do whatever your hand and your purpose determined.” So who killed Jesus? The Jews and the Gentiles, you get the Jews and Gentles together you get the whole world. That’s who killed Jesus as a fact no one could kill Him; He laid down His life for the whole world. So stop being mashuga, stop being crazy come to your senses…
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be on God’s side in the last days. That’s why I’m so excited about probably the most unique and fresh approach covering the end times in reference to the Jew, Israel and the church. The book is called “I Still Care About Israel.” And Israel if you haven’t noticed that tiny little country that’s about the size of Rhode Island. You can’t open a newspaper anywhere in the world without that nation being addressed. And just as Israel was front and center stage at the first coming of Jesus well we’re in the footsteps of Messiah according to the Orthodox Jewish Community. The Messiah’s ready to return according to the Christian Community just as Israel was front and center at the first coming of Jesus, Israel is front and center at the return of Jesus. Now I have on the telephone a messianic Jewish believer Sandy Teplinski; she’s an Israeli American. She is an attorney and Sandy I have to tell you you have documented every statement that you make in this book “Why Still Care About Israel.” You went almost overboard on the documentation so no one will think that it’s just opinion. One of the most important questions I believe to God right now is “Who owns the land of Israel; the Jewish people; the Palestinians; who?
Susan: Well, according to God’s Word Psalm 105 “He remembers His covenant forever; the word which He commanded for a thousand generations. The covenant which He made with Abraham and his oath to Isaac. He confirmed it to Jacob for a statue to Israel as an everlasting covenant saying to you that I will give the land of Canaan verses 8-11. According to the scriptures God has given Israel covenantal stewardship of the land of Israel forever. Now if we want to look to non-Biblical sources historically the Jewish people of all other people groups in the world according to the principals of customary international law the Jewish people have a legal right to the land of Israel. Why do I say that? Well, according to customary international law people who have best claim to any given piece of land are the people that last legally exercised sovereign control over that land. The last legal owners of the land of Israel were the Jewish people; in fact there has been a continuous Jewish presence in the land of Israel for 1,000′s of years. Now not only do we have customary international law but back in the early 20th century after World War 1 European nations came together and formed international agreements which established a future Jewish homeland in what was then called Palestine.
Sid: By the way “Where did the name Palestine come from?” Do they have a traceable ancient tie to the land of Israel?
Susan: You read my mind [laughing] even though the land was called Palestine that has nothing to do with the Palestinians of today. The Roman’s renamed Israel Palestine as an insult in mocking remembrance of the Jews ancient enemy the Philistines who were already extinct by the time the Roman’s renamed Israel Palestine. The Palestinians of today…
Sid: So what you’re saying is “The Jews and any Arabs that might have been there were called Palestinians at that time.
Susan: Exactly, exactly. There were Palestinian Jew; there were Palestinian Arabs. Israel was created as a Palestinian state so as you know Israel has a large significant Arab population. Israel’s a democracy; Arab Israel’s have the same rights as Jewish Israeli’s and those Arab Israelis’ are the descendants of the Palestinian Arabs who lived in the country before Israel was created as a modern day state. The key here is that there were very few other occupants of the land when Israel became a nation and during the processes of Israel becoming independent-sovereign state. There were approximately 300,000 individuals in the entire land of Israel which actually included actually about twice as much territory as it does now. And there were very, very few populations centers and so during the time that the Jewish people who were the last legal owners of the land were present and to live and inhabit the land the land had remained mostly barren and a wasteland. Yes there were some Arab villages but those villages had not really become bustling thriving hubs of any kind until after the early Jewish pioneers came back to Israel began to work the land. I believe God anointed them to do so; it seemed that nobody else had been able to cause the deserts and the swamplands to turn into blossoming fields and cites. But as the Jewish people came back and rolled up their sleeves and began to recreate a state by God’s grace that attracted many Bedouin type Arabs in order to get better jobs. In order to get better medical care; in order to get their children educated. And that continues to this day; and I see that even as an Israeli where many Arab Bedouins…
Sid: Is that equal to many people from South of the border come to the United States because we made a great country here just as Israel made a great country?
Susan: Well, certainly there’s a parallel certainly there’s a parallel. And there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that if people come in peace desiring to contribute to a country. (Laughing)
Sid: So what you’re saying is that this huge Palestinian population their ancestors weren’t even there in what was called Palestine. Like for instance Arafat he came from Egypt.
Susan: He did. It’s estimated that about 650,000 Arabs fled when the Jewish state was created into what are called refugee areas now. But even among that number probably the majority came from outside the land of Israel only after the Jewish Zionist pioneers had made headway in bringing modern up to date western civilization type of infrastructure to what was essentially a desert wasteland and swampland.
Sid: And you know what I find fascinating Sandy is that when the Jewish people who lived in the Arab lands were uprooted they left with clothing on their back, nothing. And Israel made them as we Jewish people say a mensch; real human they took care of their own. Now when the Arabs fled the land that they had they weren’t reestablished in the Arab countries who had so much more money. How come? Why did they leave them in squalor like that?
Susan: No Arab state would take in the refugees specifically in order to leave them in place as a local population that could be used in the political, the diplomatic and the military realm to help destroy Israel. The Palestinians have always operated in connection with the larger pan-Arab plan which remains to this day to destroy the state of Israel.
Sid: Answer this question, it looks like there will be a Palestinian state; if there is a Palestinian state how in the world can they exist if their goal is to wipe Israel off the face of the map? I don’t understand the longer term thinking.
Susan: Well, they don’t operate in isolation they gain their weapon supplies and their personnel from all over the Arab Islamist world. The Palestinian’s have historically did not at the forefront but they have been the ones that sadly been manipulated by the ones surrounding Arab nations to their bidding. To serve again as a local platform from which an all-out war against Israel can be launched. But you’re right without out building a state; without having a goal in life other than destruction of another state a people group languishes and doesn’t prosper. And that’s exactly what we see happening in spite the fact the United States for example spends approximately 400 million dollars a year to build infrastructure within the Palestinian Authority in Gaza. Yet there’s poverty and squalor and corruption within both realms that have prevented most Palestinians from having any kind of decent life other than having as their goal the destruction of Israel.
Sid: It’s so sad and so outrages it proves there’s a devil. And as a matter of fact Joel chapter 3 states that the single sin that will cause God’s judgment on a nation and I quote this specifically “Is dividing up the land of Israel that God gave to the Jewish people forever lasting and a thousand generations.”
Sid: Well my guest David Jones is red hot for the Messiah. We found out that God took him into what is known as an open vision and he saw what the Bible refers to as the worst day in the history of planet earth it’s called “The Day of the Lord.” Now David God’s given you a call tell me about that.
David: When I was 30 years old I remember sleeping; I remember sleeping in my bed and all of a sudden I just work up. And I heard these words “Go to the book of Ezekiel the 3rd Chapter and begin at the 14th verse.” And I looked at the clock and it was 5:00 and I said “Uh oh! God’s getting ready to speak to me,” and I got my Bible and I opened it up and it said “Son of man I have made you a watchman unto the House of Israel. When I say unto the wicked thou shall surely die and thou givest him not warning nor to warn him from his wicked way.(And what’s the purpose of the warning but to save his life) That same wicked man shall die in his sin but his blood will I require at thy hand.” That means I had a great responsibility to give people the truth whether I wanted to do it or not. I had to do it because I have to answer to God one day.
Sid: Give me 2 people that you shared the truth with and what happened with them.
David: Well, the call to warn was on me even at an early age at 11 years old Sid. I remember my Uncle Fred, that was my buddy my Uncle Fred. He was 28 years old and I was 11 and I had my own bed but I liked sleeping with my Uncle Fred. And we would talk and just have a great sessions on talking about all kinds of things at night. But this one night something was different and so I begin to speak to Uncle Fred. And I said “Uncle Fred.” And I’m a junior, everybody calls me junior. And he said “Yeah Jun.” I said “Grandma said the Bible says “Except a man be born again Jesus said “He won’t even see the Kingdom of heaven but he’ll die and go to hell and burn in the lake of fire and brimstone.” And his response was, “When you got to go you gotta go.” Sid the next week, not 10 years later, the next week God didn’t allow me to sleep with Uncle Fred I slept across from Uncle Fred. And I heard my Grandmother at the bottom of the stairs calling him about 7:00 in the morning saying “Fred, Fred, Fred get up Fred you got to go to work.” And I got up and I cut the light on and looked over. And he was 28 but he drunk beer so he had a little beer gut and I was kind of half sleeping and I said “It don’t look like Uncle Fred’s stomach going up and down.” I didn’t think nothing of it I went and got in the bed with him and grabbed his arm and started shaking his belly and I said “Hmm Uncle Fred is cold he must have sleep under no cover.” And I was shaking him and my Grandmother got to the top of the stairs and she said “Jun can you get him up.” She said “Lord, have mercy!” She said “I think Fred dead, and I drop his arms.” Sid he had one week to set his house in order, he will have no excuse on that day. “Well Lord, when did I hear about You?” And He will say “Well, remember the lad, he was telling you you must be born again.” Another time I was preaching, ministering on a Wednesday service and I was just ministering the word and all of a sudden I never had this happen to me before. I stopped and I said “There’s someone in this church, this is your last call from God. The Lord is calling you tonight, this is your last call after this night the Lord will not come to you ever again, answer the call of God.” All of a sudden a beautiful Spanish lady, young girl about 17 in the back of the church real long hair jumped up weeping and crying running and crying “Oh my God it’s me, it’s me. I’m a backslider, I want to come home.” And she rededicated her life. That was on a Wednesday night 2 weeks later she was killed in a car accident. The Bible says “The day you hear My voice harken not your heart.” Sid listen God spoke to me said “I’m telling you to warn them for Me because it’s my love reaching out to all mankind I’m giving them warning and I’m living them by giving them the warning it’s My mercy that’s reaching out to them, it’s my compassion that’s reaching out to them through the warning.
Sid: What about someone that’s listening to us right now that is involved in sin but they say “Everyone does it it’s okay, God’s a God of love.” What would you say to them?
David: But he’s a God of justice and He’s a God of judgment. The Lord is holy and He said in His word, “Be ye holy for I am holy.” Hebrew 12:14 says “Follow peace with all men, holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. The Lord means what He says and He’s says what He means.” The scripture cannot be altered neither can it be broken. He said “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.”
Sid: What about people that are living for God on Sunday, but the rest of the week they live like everyone else?
David: Sometime they’ve been bewitched in their own thoughts and their own mind. The Bible says “If we confess our sins He’s faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness.” God is a merciful God and compassionate God. But Sid there is a line that I cannot cross with God. There’s a line that you cannot cross and that is the line of no return. And if they keep going on the Lord will have to judge them on it sooner or later.
Sid: How soon could this whole vision you saw the return of Jesus “The Day of the Lord, the Day of pouring out of His judgment.” How soon could that be?
David: It could happen like NOW! Because it came so SWIFTLY! It came so SUDDENLY! upon all humanity and it caught everyone off guard. Why because Jesus said “I’m coming at an hour and at a time when man least expects it.” I know we got great revelation teachers and they’re comparing scriptures with scripture but in the vision everyone was caught off guard!
Sid: David tell me about the time you were driving in Atlanta and you thought the Lord said to you to “Pick up a woman,” but you kind of shrugged it off, you didn’t want to do it.
David: Sid can I be honest, I knew I heard from God. I’m going to tell the truth on myself, I didn’t want to be bothered with the lady. I didn’t want to stop I’m just telling the truth, I’m honest. I’m the kind of preacher I’ll show you why I missed God. I missed God. The lady was walking up the hill and a steep hill and she had groceries in her hand and I’m driving my car and getting close. And the Lord said “Pick her up.” And I’m being honest I said “I’m not picking that lady up, I don’t even know that lady.” And I past the lady by and the Lord came to me again with authority and said “Pick her up!” I said “Oh God forgive me, I’ll pick her up.” And I start praying and I turn the car around and I’m going back up the hill and I say “Lord give me something to this lady I don’t want to start freaking out on me I know that she don’t know me.” And as I’m getting closer to her she was looking at me out of the corner of her eye like “What is he doing?” And I rolled down the window and I say “Mam I’m going to the top of the hill, I can give you a ride.” She said “I don’t ride with strangers, and then all of a sudden God just started ministering through me.” I said “Mam I understand these are the last days and these are the last times and you have to be so careful but the Lord knows your going in and your coming out there is nothing hid from the Lord.” She said “I believe I’ll take that ride.” Sid, I got right to the point I said “Mam anybody can quit but it take a real man, a real woman to keep going.” And she said “Oh, my God the Lord must have sent you to me.” I said “Why do you say that?” She said “I done wreck my car, that’s why I’m walking now, I lost my job; I’m starting to do crack cocaine, I got this big lump on my breast I’m thinking about killing myself.” I say “Mam if you kill yourself the devil will turn a flip that’s all he want you to do, but where there’s life there’s hope.” And when I said it Sid I heard God for myself and I began to almost breakdown and cry because I heard God. I said “Where there’s life, there’s hope.” And she began to just weep and cry and then Sid I led her to the Lord and when I led her to the Lord I dropped her off at her place and I got ready to drive and I couldn’t drive because I began to break. Now my dad he was a fighter and he always taught me to be strong and not be a cry baby, and so I held back the tears. But now for the first time in my life I’m getting ready to weep, tears are coming out of my eyes and I said “I’m crying.” And I was crying because I was ashamed of myself; I didn’t want to be bothered with this lady, I didn’t want to take time out with woman. And the lady told me that she was going to commit suicide and I began to repent to God and I said Lord I make a vow to you this day. “Wherever you send me oh Lord, I’ll go, wherever you tell me to say oh King I’ll say “Thus sayeth the Lord God whether I know them or not.” And Sid, from that very day God start sending me the businessmen, the bishops, the owners of companies, the movie producers, to doctors, to lawyers, to nurses. God started sending me to people and when He send me He would give me a word for them. And every time I would give there to them I would know that I’d been sent by God to them. Ever since that day I may a vow that wherever God send me I will go.
Sid: David there are people listening to us right now that must get right with God. How will they?
David: Jesus says “Whosoever will let him come undo me and I will in nowise cast him out.” I don’t care what you’re doing, I don’t care what you have done. You might have been on drugs and alcohol, you might be suicidal right now. God loves you with an everlasting love and He says in His word, He wish that none should perish but all come to repentance. He loved you before the foundations of the world; He said “Come unto Me all you heavy laden and I will give you rest.” Aren’t you sick and tired of being sick and tired? Jesus is your answer come unto Me, all you heavy laden and I will give you rest. My yoke is easy and my burdens are light and you will find rest unto your souls. The word of God says that “If we confess with our mouth, and believe in our heart that God raised Jesus from the dead,” this is a promise “Thou shall be saved.” Right now just confess with your mouth, just begin to repent right now say “Lord I repent of all of trespasses and sin. God come into my life; forgive me Lord, wash me and make me clean, come into my life. Be my Lord and my Savior; direct my footsteps in everything I say and do Lord, I give You my life. Cleans me Lord, I say yes to your will and I saw yes to your way. And from this day forward I will serve you all the days of my life and I will be a witness for you wherever I go in the land.”
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah lukewarm it’s deception. You’re better off being cold then being deceived because it you’re cold you know you’ve got a problem. But if you are lukewarm; if you’re like the average 21st century American Christian. You go to church on Sunday; you love the people, you love God; you love the pastor, but during the rest of the week there’s no difference between you and nonbelievers that have a good moral conscience something is wrong somewhere. We are at the wrap up, we’re about ready to see the greatest revival; I mean it’s not an accident that you’re listening to me right now. We’re about ready to see the greatest revival the world has ever seen; God is right now releasing anointing’s, ancient anointing’s. Because there is so much work that has to be done; instead you’re holding on to the toys of this life when the true riches are about ready to come to you. And you know what I’m reminded of Kathryn Kuhlman who had a great miracle ministry and she said “She was the bottom of the barrel last choice of God for this great miracle ministry but many great men of God were offered this ministry and turned it down.” What do you mean by offered this ministry? What I mean by that is that is that if He can trust you with little things He can trust you with big things. You are being offered a very very special destiny; don’t miss it for the toys of this earth. My guest is Patrick McEnnerney I’m speaking to him at his home in Casa Grande, Arizona and Patrick you were in middle of what God was showing you would you expound on that?
Pat: Yes, I was talking about a prophetic word and let’s just back up we’ll roll back a little bit. I was flying from the east coast to Montana, and I actually had been fretting because this conference was an important conference that I was going to do. I had writers block; a road block and I always prepare myself and I don’t ever give a message unless I’m convinced that it’s totally of God. I’m not into tickling anybody’s ears and I was crying out to the Lord on the airplane and the Lord spoke to me He says “Chill out.” He said “What I gave you 10 years ago you’re going to use and listen I want to share with you what I want you to preach.” So the Lord opened; it enlightened my eyes; it enlightened my being and said “I want you to preach about the sons of thunder; the Covenant Sons of signs and wonders. And they’ll be marching out of Zion with fire in their hands and they will shout out the name of their God as kingdoms fall apart. Jesus is returning soon.” Now I shared with you Sid earlier about a vision that God gave me in Spokane in 1998 and this is really part of it God didn’t give it all to me at once. But there’s this new anointing, this new breed, this new army of believers that is Jew and Gentile. And that is the new man; that is the man restored into relationship that will walk with such phenomenal power that we’ll be raising the dead and casting out demons, healing the sick and preaching the kingdom of our God. There’s only one nation and there’s only one blood; and that nation the King is Jesus the Messiah. The blood is the blood of the Lamb and we can’t enter into this new anointing into this new army into this thing God is doing presently at this very hour. He’s tearing away the hierarchies; He’s tearing away the religious things.
Sid: I sure hope that He speeds this up because I am so ready for the new that I can taste it.
Pat: I am too, you know one of the things that I combat constantly is this lip service that people say they believe. Intellectually they have ascended to truth; but in their belly there is no truth of that belief or they would step into it and do it. People need to forget really all the stuff that they’re doing for the most part and come back to the simple truth and come unto Me; Jesus said “Follow Me.” My call was this that I know that I wasn’t God’s first choice; I’m convinced of it but I said “Here I am, choose me.” And then the Lord allowed His fire to come. And we see in Numbers these Levi Priests and they were a holy nation; they were holy. But they weren’t in a position, they weren’t doing really what God had asked them to do; they were outside of what God had spoken to them. They looked good; they were the famous and they were the ones that all would be led by. God stepped out in their midst and they were consumed in their fire. But they’re fire pans became holy and He used it as a memorial of who God is, and I believe that these sons of thunder these Covenant sons Jew and Gentiles will walk with such power that the fire of God will come from heaven and consume up darkness. And I’m seeing in our ministry tremendous things happen. Well, it isn’t happening worldwide. Well, I think that God has been calling and preparing people; healing was non-heard of 5 years ago basically. And now there are hundreds of healing centers or healing rooms and they’re now seeking the face of Jesus. And they’re thinking “Could this gospel be true?”
Sid: Listen, there’s got to be a change. The system that we have as King James would have said “Stinketh.” Listen the system we have is four walls and expect nonbelievers to come in droves inside of these four walls to get saved by the paid professional. That’s not the way that God set this whole system up. He wanted everyone to be a worker and you’re starting to see tremendous miracles in your ministry. And I asked you a question; “What do you think was the turning point where you began to see these miracles.” And you said “It really was through the crucible of suffering.” People don’t want to hear about it, but you had a sickness, tell me about it.
Pat: Yes, the Lord came to me and revealed to me in 1991 the Holy Spirit said “When you gave yourself to Jesus you died, but you have not given me permission to reign and rule in your life.” And so I consecrated my life and I asked the “Father in Jesus Name, I charged the Holy Spirit to come in with power and remove anything that would hinder you possessing me.” And forgot about that little prayer but within 2 weeks I became ill and I was eventually diagnosed with intractable migraines and the pain never left for 6 years and I was on methadone and demurral and it was excruciating and I would pass out from it. It literally ripped away my fortune and in that process, see God didn’t bring that, if I knew then what I know now I wouldn’t have had to suffer. But in that process and in that tremendous pain I put a demand in heaven in desperation and there was a cry that started coming out of me and God leaned and fastened His ear to me and heard my cry. But because of that I entered into what I would call Christ crucified. Now I’m not talking about being perfect; I’m talking about I desired and I started giving up all the idols.
Sid: You know when you’re in such bad physical shape you’re willing to give up anything to get relief. And why is it that we can’t do this without these challenges? What is it that makes us so hard headed and stiff necked?
Pat: Well, I can only speak for part of what I understand and what I’ve experienced but the church as a whole is like the fig tree that Jesus cursed. It had leaves but it had no fruit; and Jesus maybe a lot of people don’t know this a fig tree produces fruit before it does leaves. And this tree dried from the roots up; a trees don’t die in that way. What Jesus was saying “He hates the counterfeit.” And see the devils a liar and a thief he comes, to steal, kill and destroy; he’s the master counterfeiter and deceiver. And so we have walk in the truth and we worship God in the Spirit of truth and Spirit. So I believe as in my case; being raised in Catholicism, the Catholic Church; I knew who Mary was and I heard about the Father. But I didn’t really know this Jesus, that He’s the only way, He’s the only path; He’s the only door. And He is life and if you don’t go through Him you don’t have life. And so I saw a facade of religiousness but I never saw the power. When I minister today I tell people that many have never heard about God and they’re religious and they’re there to jure and come against it. And I say “If what I say is true we can demonstrate it; that it is true sharper than any two edged sword. And many times before I preach I’ll walk over and I’ll speak it from the pulpit “In Jesus Mighty Name I rebuke that Spirit of death on the person stand up.” And they’ll be radically miraculously healed by the power of Jesus Christ.” That brings the lost into the house; and our ministry has moved somewhat; God has told us and we’d done it and we obeyed it. It was a mandate to get a tent to go to places where people won’t darken the church. We put the tent up and those that get saved with relationship to other churches Jew or Gentile churches we want them to be discipled. They mustn’t stay in this state of a convert; they must be discipled. And so you know God said “His word came with power” if we’re not preaching the gospel with supernatural power you know it’s not a new thing; signs and wonders followed those that believe. And we have to judge ourselves and look back at the wake that we leave behind. Is there supernatural things happen in your ministry; or in your house or in your home? If there isn’t you’ve missed it; because Jesus declared that all those that believe signs and wonders follow them.” And He doesn’t need our intellect what He needs is us to enter into His death and be Christ crucified.
Sid: Patrick, let me tell you something, what you are touching on few people talk about. We’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast Mishpochah. Because you have been crying out to God for walking in the power; he’s going to tell you how because he has the goods. I want you ready, I want you in place for the last, for the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history.
Sid: I want to see everyone everywhere laying hands on the sick and having them recover and then having a platform to proclaim the gospel. But remember the law of evangelism is go to the Jew first. Oh, God has just healed someone with a neck problem, if you move your head you’ll see the pain is gone. I’m interviewing Doug Jones. Doug has spent 20 years as an instructor at Rhema Bible College. And for 9 years he ran their Healing School; people came from all over the world. He learned keys to healing that few Christians understand. And if you understood this you would; I believe have the healing that God wants in your own body and you would be able to lay hands on the sick or speak healing words and see people healed all over the map. Now Doug on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about in Mark the 11th chapter the 23 verse about believing before you see. And you said “Preceding that, immediately preceding those verses Jesus cursed the fig tree; it appeared as though nothing happened; the next day it withered from it’s roots. But I said to you “Well, that’s not a long time; that’s you know just 24 hours, but what about someone that’s been believing God for a specific healing for 3 years?
Doug: Well, the thing about it is this; is that Mark 11:24 says “Whatsoever things that you desire when you pray believe that you receive them and you shall receive them.” There’s a lot of people today Sid that are believing for their healing. That tells me this then that they do not believe that God has given them anything yet; they’re still believing to get their healing. I’ll never forget that we had an individual with colon cancer and what happened was that he started bleeding anytime that he had a bowel movement. And he didn’t get physically checked out by a doctor he let it go. And over a process of time he didn’t even tell his wife that he was bleeding and he went for months and it started getting worse and worse and worse. And finally he started losing weight and finally after oh I bet it was 7 or 8 months confided in his wife. Well, she just became unglued and immediately almost just forced him to go to the doctor to find out what was going on. And he found out colon cancer and he had waited too long and it was past operation and now very desperate situation. Well, I started ministering to him but I never could get him on proper position; his faith wasn’t in the proper place. I’ll never forget…
Sid: It’s so logical, why couldn’t you?
Doug: Well, on the hospital bed he’d always say to me he’d put his thumb up in the air and he say “God’s going to do it Doug; God’s going to do it.” And I thought to myself you know God’s going to do it and believing that you received when you prayed are 2 separate different directions.
Sid: It sounds the same; in fact some people didn’t even catch that say that again.
Doug: He was saying “God’s going to do it; God’s going to do it Brother Doug.” But the issue is this as Mark 11:24 says that “When you pray you’re to believe that you received.” If you believed that you received when you prayed then you wouldn’t be getting up into every prayer line offered to you why? No need for me to go up there I believed that I received last Friday, that believing power is in my body it’s working mightily. Just like that fig tree Jesus cursed that fig tree; power was administered to that fig tree and it’s working mightily. Well, He didn’t curse it the next time He went past that tree, it was the next day on their way back to Jerusalem that Peter cries out “The fig trees dried up from the roots.” Jesus didn’t curse that fig tree over and over again. He didn’t go over there and speak to it 2 or 3 different times. He spoke it one time and believed that that power was administered to the roots of that tree. So many people today they have hands laid upon them but because they don’t feel something, because they don’t see a change in their body then they come to the conclusion that God didn’t give them anything. And yet what He gave them was not something visible it was something spiritual it was the healing power of God. That power that was made available to us through the death, burial and resurrection. That same power that went out of Jesus that flowed into the woman with the issue of blood. That same power was administered to our bodies when we were prayed for but we must believe that we received it when we prayed. And so for me Sid if we believed it that that power was administered they wouldn’t be getting up into every prayer line offered to them. Why, that power is in me and the only thing left to do is to say “Father, thank You.”
Sid: Now, does that power ever leave the person once it’s in them?
Doug: That power never leaves, that power never dissipates or disappears. If an individual had hands laid upon them 5 years ago for kidney problems that healing power is still in they’re kidneys. I’ll put it to you like this; you know as well as I do as Christians we miss it sometimes and get into sin. But Mark chapter 1 and verse 19 says or 1 John 1:9 says “If we confess our sins He’s faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness. Every single one of us have seen people pray that prayer, ask God for forgiveness but they get up and because they don’t feel any different. Because they might feel inferior or they might feel unworthy they get up and they don’t believe that God forgave them without question. Did God forgive that person when they asked for forgiveness. Yes, but because they didn’t believe that they were forgiven, because they didn’t believe that they received that in essence they live apart from what was given to them. They were forgiven but they’re living apart from it; they still guilty, they still feel inferior. 1 John 9 will never produce a feeling; it produces a fact. And you hand around the fact long enough and the feeling will come. The fact that say “I was forgiven whether I feel like it or not God forgave me and He’s restored me completely. Such it is with the healing power of God. That fact that the healing power of God was administered to your body, that does not change.
Sid: Let me ask you this “Do I need someone like yourself to lay hands on me.”
Sid: “Or can I speak to my own body, can I lay hands on myself and is that as effective as Doug Jones praying for me?
Doug: Your operating on the word of God; yesterday’s program we talked about the fact that the word of God is likened unto a seed. If you find a scripture and obey a scripture the power within the scripture is released within your life. Sid when Jesus gave the little word come it was a promise. It was some instructions given to Peter, come. That little word come had contained within it enough power to actually defy the laws of nature and allow Peter to walk on water. But it took Peter’s obedience to release the power within the word come in order for it to be manifested within his life. If you have a sick child, first of all we recommend that you contact your medical physician but you also pray. If at 3:00 in the morning you know Mark 16: “They shall lay hands on upon the sick and they shall recover.” I encourage you to pray for that child. Go ahead and get the child medically checked out also but pray and the moment you pray the healing power of God is administered to that body because obedience always releases the power within the word of God. So to answer your question “No.” You do not need a Kenneth Hagin or a Oral Roberts or anyone else; all it takes is a hand. They shall lay hands on the sick; they didn’t say special hands, they say a minsters hand, it said “Hands.”
Sid: You know what I’m reminded again that you said Brother Hagin used to say the moment I lay my hands on you the healing power of God will be administered to your body, but what you do with it is up to you. What did he mean by that?
Doug: Well, you can neglect the healing power of God. Neglected power is dormant power; neglected power is inactive power. You know that Paul told Timothy in 1st Timothy chapter 4 in verse 14. And I encourage our readers to read it; now I realize that this is not talking about healing; but it is talking about something that was given to Timothy at the laying on of hands. Listen to what it says here “Neglect not the gift that is in thee which was given thee by prophesy with the laying on of the hands of presbytery.” In other words evidently hands were laid on Timothy and something was given to Timothy a gift. Paul told Timothy the gift that was given to you through the laying hand “Timothy you’re not to neglect it.” Now Sid you know as well as I do that if you neglect something that it will never reach it’s full potential. If you neglect a dog or a pet it will never reach it’s full potential. If you neglect your yard it will never reach it’s full potential. Evidently he’s saying to us you can neglect things given to you through the laying on of hands. And so there are people today like you stated that Brother Hagin and I so often heard him say it “The moment I lay my hands upon you the healing power of God will be administered to your body; but what you do with it after that is up to you.” And I’ll never forget I’d seen him do it so many times; he’d take his watch off and say “If I gave you my watch as a gift to you from that point on what you do with it is up to you.” You can take it and stomp on it and you can throw it; you can give it away it’s up to you.” And it’s the same thing with the healing power of God; once it’s administered to your body if you neglect it. In other words if you never think about it; if you never thank the Heavenly Father for it; if you never talk about it that healing power will become neglected it will become inactive in your life.
Sid: You know Doug, on tomorrow’s broadcast we’re just about out of time. On tomorrow’s broadcast I want you to read what Ken Hagin had to say and this isn’t published anywhere about keeping the switch of faith turned on. Tell me how you got that.
Doug: That was in August 10th of 1992 Brother Hagin was in Nanuit, New York and he spoke on that subject so as a result I go the transcript on that.
Sid: Whoops we’re out of time.
Sid: I am concerned; I want you to hear God’s voice and Richard Mull no matter what happens on planet earth. No matter how awful it becomes if people hear God’s voice I happen to believe that it’ll be the most exciting adventure of our lives. What do you think?
Richard: Amen; definitely.
Sid: Okay, I’m going to take you back; you never went to seminary and you’re in ministry now but you never were taught how to hear God’s voice. If you were taught anything you were taught the opposite; you got the Bible that’s all you need. Well, that’s true that’s all you need but you need to do what the Bible says. And the Bible you tear… if somebody took the supernatural out of the Bible would they have much left Richard?
Richard: You know it’s interesting we’re trying to find out what percentage of the scripture is supernatural and we’re having some issues because we need a programmer to help us and we have a couple different programmers but we should have it pretty soon. I’ll be able to tell you what percentage of scripture.
Sid: Approximate, what do you think?
Richard: I believe it’s between 60 and 80% of the Bible is supernatural. It’s definitely over 50%. I believe that we’re closer to 80% is supernatural. If you took out everything that’s happening that’s supernatural you’d only have 20% of the Bible.
Sid: Okay, take you back to ’96, 1996, you’re in ministry and not one but two wonderful ministry opportunities cross your path. And you realize God I don’t know which one is from you; that had to be very frustrating.
Richard: It was very frustrating but at the same time when you have 2 opportunities it’s exciting but you want to know “Is there one that is the will of God over the other.” Because either one I would have been happy with.
Sid: So how’d you find out?
Richard: Well, I was Baptist Youth Pastor and I prayed a prayer that is not normal for us. And so I said “God I need it to be supernatural; otherwise I’m going to always wonder if I stayed I would wonder if I took the easy road. If I head overseas and now I got people saying ‘God told them they were supposed to stay here.’ I may doubt and wonder ‘Did I miss God.’ So I want a supernatural answer and this is literally what I prayed and I fasted. And I said either drop a granite stone out of the sky with an etch in it like the 10 Commandments, yes etch it in there you can do that you did it before. Or…”
Sid: Yeah, I saw that in a movie. (Laughing) I’m just easing go ahead.
Richard: I said “Send somebody walk up off the street and tell me God told them, I’m supposed to stay here.” I said, “If it’s a total stranger and they walk up off the streets and they tell me I will know that is from You.” I fasted for 4 days; I had communicated with the Senior Leader of the church that I was going to be resigning to head overseas unless God supernaturally revealed that I was supposed to stay.
Sid: So what did God do did you get hit in the head with a piece of granite?
Richard: The granite did not show up but on Monday morning. I finished the fast on Thursday, on Monday morning I got a phone call from the receptionist. She said “There’s a guy out here that wants to speak to a Pastor.” We got 10 pastors on staff and they were all gone to lunch so I came out there. A guy with a long beard; long hair he had dirty hands; he was missing most of his teeth. There was an old beat up pickup truck outside the glass windows I could see. I thought “This is going to be interesting; how can I help you?” And he introduced himself and told a little bit about having a ministry in the inner city to the prostitutes and homosexuals. And he said “God told me today to come in here and speak to a pastor.” And I said “Okay, how can I help you?” He started to cry a little bit as he said the words he said “The only thing that I know what God wants me to say is that sometimes we feel like God wants us to go far away like another country that’s where He can use us when in reality God wants us to stay right where we are and that’s where He’s going to use to make an impact.” And He says “I don’t know why I’m telling you this but God told me today to come in here and tell this to a preacher.”
Sid: Aren’t you glad that he had enough we Jewish people have a word called chutzpah. He had enough chutzpah; nerve to tell you something of what he didn’t have a clue of what he was every talking about.
Richard: I thought God “What kind of person could even answer that prayer?” You know the normal Christian that I’ve always gone off with couldn’t. I’d never met anybody that would do something like that. But God said “Wow Richard, tough request but I got one guy I could call on.” So he did it.
Sid: Okay, you knew what you were supposed to do but you did a little more than what you bargained for. This pastor Cecil started mentoring you in the supernatural but you had seen something that I think it’s a horrible term it’s called slain in the Spirit. Rather to me I would call it overcome by the presence of the Living God.
Sid: What did you think about being slain in the Spirit?
Richard: Well, I had never seen it in scripture. It’s interesting because Charles Finney had always been one of my favorites and I knew that type of stuff had happened to him. But I felt a lot of what I had seen; I hadn’t been around it much but what I had seen people being pushed seemed a little dramatic. And so I really shied away from it; couldn’t see it in the Bible. And I had a drummer in our youth band come up to me and want to share visions he had when he was slain in the Spirit. I just looked at him and I’m thinking in my head “Okay, if God was going to give anybody visions wouldn’t it be me I’m the Youth Pastor and you’re just a kid.” And I didn’t say that but that was my arrogance thought that. And I said “Could you show me slain in the Spirit in the Bible?” And he couldn’t and I was just like “See.” I said “If God shows you something in the Word tell it to me and I’d be glad for you to share it but no not something that you saw in a vision when you were slain in the Spirit.” It was exactly 7 days later that Cecil called me and said “I have another word from God for you.” And it had been 8 months and I didn’t think he was real, I hadn’t heard anything from him. And he showed up at my office and he gave me… he said “Before I give you the Word that God told me to tell you we need to go pray for your wife she’s having severe back pain.” I was like “How does this guy know these things?” So we went to my house and we prayed for my wife; God healed her and he turned to give me a word from God and the next thing I knew I was laying on the floor having a vision.
Sid: What was your vision?
Richard: You know it was fairly long and extensive but in a nutshell I first saw an angel at my feet; and the angel seemed like morphed into a man. It was the same person; it was the same being but at first it looked like an angel but it was a man and he was laying a sheet over me. And at that very moment this guy Cecil said “There is an angel and he’s laying a mantle on you.” And I thought “How does he know what I’m seeing?” And it wasn’t like he had suggested something and then I saw it; it was he was saying exactly what I was seeing. And then I saw another being that invited me to come and it appeared as though a sword was falling through the sky and it split this veil. And I couldn’t see the veil until the sword hit it and all of a sudden the image went from kind of greyish to much more clear because I could see through the veil. And I saw this sword and it split this veil and a creature invited me to… it was like a young person invited me to come behind the veil. I went with them behind the veil and there was a large round platform like an altar, or I want to say the word, actually I don’t know what it would be called actually. But above it was hovering like a Roman shield; not a shield but a helmet. And it was hovering and it was spinning slowly. I’m just looking at all of this it was 3 dimensional as real as anything I’m looking at right now. And I’m watching that and then there was a star that came down from above and the closer it got to the more I felt this energy. It was pulsating inside of me like it was going to explode and at one point I just said “Enough.” And it was like the vision stopped and I had been on the ground I don’t know how long. My wife had gotten down to see if I was still breathing because she was worried about me.
Sid: I’m sure.
Richard: I just sat up and I went “Wow!” I remembered kind of mocking the kid the week before about what I’d just experienced and here I am exactly 7 days before. It was just a couple of hours before I would be leading my youth and I was sitting there going “I just got off the floor and I just had a vision. I’m going to ask that kid to forgive me.” Because even though I can’t explain just what happened to me and I’m not going to quickly use this word slain the Spirit lightly or anything like that but I know this was an encounter.
Sid: Okay, we’re out of time right now Richard but you then are taught step by step on how to hear God’s voice for yourself. Your wife then learned step by step supernaturally how to hear God’s voice. And God literally directed you to have color coded various categories of the supernatural in a Bible. Imitation leather so that as people read the scripture for themselves that Word will become flesh and they will walk in everything that God has for them in this life.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Pastor Ricky Sinclair Pastor of Miracle Place Church in Baton Rouge Parish, Louisiana. Unbelievable he just started out with the good life; a little alcohol; a little marijuana it won’t hurt anyone and he went as low as a human can go. He was facing life in prison and he escaped from the jail when they were booking him and he was in the woods for 56 days. When you were in the woods running from the police what did you eat; what did you drink?
Ricky: Oh my Sid listen I was in the woods for 56 days eating raw Armadillo. Look I’m talking Dillon on the half shell. (Laughing)
Sid: I haven’t seen that in a restaurant lately. (Laughing)
Ricky: No you see oysters on the half shell (Laughing) I call it Dillon on the half shell; literally and it’s the reality of drugs Sid. You know for our listening audience today I really want them to understand the real reality of drugs. It seems like it’s a party; it seems like it’s fun; it seems like it feels good but in the end it’s like a snake; it biteth like a serpent. At the end you got to pay the piper so ever you sow you also reap. And so here I am in the woods eating raw Armadillo. Now what you do is and I’ll give a little survivor course in case there are some folk that are listening to us today and they say that they want to have a career in drugs. And I want to tell them the real reality; I give them a little survivor course in case they may have to escape because they got busted because they’re in trouble by the law. And here they are running in the woods; and what you do is that you go back into survival mode; you eat whatever is in the woods. You don’t have any kind of knife or any kind of match.
Sid: What did you do for water?
Ricky: I’ll tell you Sid, I laid 4 days and 4 nights 25 feet from the Angola guard line and after 4 days my tongue was welded to my mouth. There’s one thing that you cannot go without and that is water. So after 4 days I was literally dying; I was starting to hallucinate really bad and so what I did was I got out of the spot that I was laying in and went deep into the woods.
Sid: Now why were you deep in the woods; why didn’t you just come on out and…
Ricky: There’s standards all around me; I’m in a 4 mile 4 mile square block and there’s standards, chase team standards every 50 yards around the blacktop road all around the woods that I was in.
Sid: You’re just a 22 year old kid doing drugs; what are they after you like this for?
Ricky: Twenty-two years old busted in in 92 distribution of cocaine, marijuana and Diazepam, which is Valium; 1986 distribution of marijuana. Running from those charges in New Orleans busted again with intent to distribute 14 pounds of marijuana and an ounce of Ecstasy. So let me just tell you Sid now a days in your schools throughout the world every person in that school has got to say yes or no to marijuana; it’s that prevalent it’s everywhere. So yeah I’m 22 years old caught up in the drug scene but many many people in our world today are facing the same kind of peer pressure and the same kind of temptations because of drugs; this is what is in our world. This is what is in our schools. So yes I’m 22 years old and I’m caught up with a terrible habit. Caught up in the bondage of addiction; of drugs…
Sid: So you’re surrounded your stuck in the woods for 56 days trying to survive? What are you drinking you got to have something.
Ricky: I am drinking water out of the creek in a little whole that’s got mosquito lavas; I’m running from the chase team.
Sid: So these things you’re going to swallow and they’re going to grow inside of you?
Ricky: Down the hatch; I’ll never forget my tongue was like welded to my mouth after 4 days of laying there. Walking up the creek backwards because I didn’t want my… if they did find my tracks I wanted them to think I was going in another direction. Came to a little water whole in the creek and there’s a mosquito lavas that’s in there. And what I’m thinking is if I drink this water out of the little whole in the creek and mosquito lavas are going down my throat I’m thinking that at least this is some extra protein. And you know what that’s the kind of sick thinking that you think. You know what when you’re desperate you’ll do desperate…
Sid: And so you were catching animals; killing them and eating them raw you didn’t have any knives even did you?
Ricky: Here’s what I ate Sid and this is my knife; I found the top of a can like a soup or a cat food can top where it’s open with a can opener. And that became what I called my knife. And what I do is I sneak up for instance an armadillo and you go right back into the caveman survival mode. And I’d knock an armadillo over the head and he’d be kicking he’d be jerking and I’d turn him over on his back and start sawing on that hard skin on his stomach. And I would pull that armadillo out of the shell and cut the back side. Now I’m a country boy and I’d cut the backside right out and it would be sushi Dillon on the half shell. Now let me tell you the worst thing that I put in my mouth to this day and that’s black stink turtle or mud turtle. Those are those little round black turtles; it’s like a snapping turtle but it’s not even a snapping turtle he lives in the water. And what you do is you bust his shell over like a hard stump with a stick in the woods.
Sid: You’re not selling me on that life style one bit you realize that. (Laughing)
Ricky: (Laughing) I’m hoping that someone today gets the revelation today that drugs will destroy your life and it’s not what it seems to be. No matter what the alcohol commercials are saying today and it looks like a big party and it looks like everybody is having fun. Actually it’s bondage; it’s slavery; it’s a snake in one day it’s going to bite you.
Sid: So Ricky, let me ask you so you go through 56 days and you started that way in about 160 pounds; what are you weighing now?
Ricky: I lost 30 pounds at the end so I lost actually over 30 pounds in the woods.
Sid: And why did you come out of the woods to your mother’s house?
Ricky: What happened was after 56 days I had a deer-stand in the woods and that’s where I stayed and after 56 days one morning when I woke up it was so foggy that I couldn’t see but 10 feet in front of me. And I thought that today is the day that I’m going to make it out of these woods. And so what I did was I went to the road where the road was and I low crawled. I’ll never forget I was still scared that the standards were going to see me low crawling like a soldier would in the army through the grass. And I’ll never forget I ran into a wasp nest. A guinea wasp nest and as I ran into it the wasps started stinging me in the face; I was so scared to slap and alert someone I just started smashing them in my face.
Sid: Listen wasps are no fun; go ahead.
Ricky: And there they are in my face Sid and stinging me all in my face and I’m scared to slap them; so I just start smashing them in my face. Ultimately made it through that crossed over the road and ended up at my mother’s house 8 miles up the road. And I’ll never forget I was in the house when my mother had gotten home and she didn’t know if I was dead or alive. Nobody knew I was in the woods for 56 days eating raw armadillo; frogs and turtles and blackberries and thistles and anything else I could find in the woods.
Sid: You know in your book it says the first time you saw yourself in a mirror tell me what happened.
Ricky: I looked like Bin Laden to tell you the truth that’s what I really looked like. You know when people get the book and they see my mug shot it really looks like Bin Laden on the front. And so when I looked at myself and I saw skin and bones; I saw a big old beard; I saw in my eyes there was no light it was death. I had nothing but death in me; that’s what I looked like Sid. And ultimately at my mother’s house my mother walks in and she didn’t even recognize me; as a matter of fact when my mother saw me for the first time her own child her first born she didn’t even recognize me. And ultimately I had to say mom it is me; and then she’s scared to death because I had been running crazy and armed and dangerous and I never was a killer. Here’s my thing I came from a good middle-class family, raised on a Wayfield plantation 1900 acres of land. Good farm people middle-class. So I never had a killing spirit it just wasn’t in my heart. I’ll tell you Sid just for our audience today that’s listening to us I really want them to get the message that drugs, living for yourself and living in sin doing your own thing astray from God will destroy your life. That’s really was the message that God gave me as I went through. And that is if you live for yourself and do your own thing it brings a curse on your life.
Sid: Well, they ultimately caught you at your mother’s house, booked you. What happened next, what were you facing?
Ricky: Facing a life sentence again down in the cell in the jail; the jail that I escaped from. And here comes Ernest James the guy that actually chased me out of the jail and he tells me he says “Ricky, you have a purpose in life. You’re not just created to live the life that you’re living; that is not what you were created for and you have a purpose.” And what he did was he gave me a Bible and here I am sick and tired and tired of being sick thinking about suicide and thinking about hopeless that I don’t have anything to look forward to. And here’s…
Sid: And you explained that you had lifetime in prison at age 22; what a horrible fate. No wonder you were suicidal.
Ricky: Facing life; lost my whole life. I’ll tell you what starts to register now; what really matters now is my wife and my child that I neglected. The one that…
Sid: Ricky, we’re out of time.