Sid: And oh do I have a Jewish man that’s red hot for the Messiah. He was a star acrobatic act in the Moscow circus, as a matter of fact in Odessa he won the national championship for what is called acro-gymnastics. It’s a combination of acrobatics and gymnastics. But Igor Ashkinaszi what was it like in the 50’s and 60’s in Odessa, Ukraine. Both of your parents were doctors and both of your parents were Jewish, what was like like?
Igor: Well that’s true my both parents are doctors and Jewish people and the life was in Ukraine at that time was for a Jewish person… it was just right after the war. And actually anti-Semitism in Ukraine was just flourishing and it really took off after the war, after World War II.
Sid: What did you know about Judaism because weren’t you raised under atheism?
Igor: I was raised as an atheist yes even though all of my relatives on my mother and father’s side are Jewish. And even some rabbis were there before the revolution my great great grandfather was a rabbi and so forth on my mother’s side. But I knew very little about. The first time in my life I heard about Jewishness is when I was called a kike. And or it was like a diminishing term for the Jewish person for a Jewish person. And I was about 5 years old and so I began to begin to call that friend of mine also a kike when we had a fight or he called me a kike and I called him back. And his parent got very upset and so his mother came to my mother and she said that your son calls my son a kike. And at that time my mother has given me a spanking because she said “You should not call him.” Well I said “Listen you have to understand that you have to understand that you are a kike he is not so you don’t do that to him anymore.” And that was a first time I was introduced to my nationality. And then I was of course asking the question and I was 5 years old and I heard nationality who I was from actually curse words the first time.
Sid: Did you observe the Biblical festivals?
Igor: We did not observe any Biblical festivals or anything religious. The first time I heard about from my Grandmother when I was maybe about 8 years old because they secretly obtained matzah. And she brought it home at night it was a stormy night it was a snow storm and she brought it in a bag and I asked what it was and they said “matzah” and I had asked “Why?” “Because we have Passover.”
Sid: So did you hear the story about Moses and going to through the Red Sea as though it was dry land?
Igor: No I didn’t not at that time but once my grandmother…I was ill I had this cold at home and my grandmother told me that it was the menace of cold weather and we didn’t come from such a cold climate as Russia. And so I said “Where did we come from?” And she said “Well we come from… she said “Well we come from a place and she said that Moses led us through the desert.”That was the first time and the last time I ever heard from my parents about Moses.
Sid: Well let me ask you what is it like being a Star in a Moscow circus? Is that a high honor in that part of the world is that a sort of like a football star in the United States?
Igor: To a degree it is similar but they exalt you a little bit less there in the Soviet Union. But I was first Soviet National Champion about a month of schools of highest athletic achievement and then it’s kind of easy to make the bridge into the circus. And so they would invite they would invite me into the circus and I immediately accepted into a Star Acrobatic Act which was a very beautiful act and was considered a 4 or 5 people and 4 men and a girl. And we just I did what I know best was catching people when they are flying in the air and throwing them around I’d say (Laughing) it is a circus.
Sid: But one day one of your partners said to you a horrible thing they called you a Jewish pig?
Igor: Yes that is actually why I left Soviet Union I was successful as you know in the Soviet Union and my life was really almost out of the league of anti-Semitism because I was kind of champion. You know people respect you and nobody every said a word to me for a long long time not like it was in the childhood stages or even the universities first years in the university. But this was a long time that I had ever heard that and suddenly my partner called me a dirty Jew in a drunken stupor. And when he said this to me he screamed actually among a lot of people and I felt extremely hurt I felt so hurt I don’t’ remember when I was so hurt. Because it was somebody that I liked and respected till that point and looked up to he was an older man. And we started to fight but as we fought bitterly suddenly something triggered in my heart a peace and I stopped. And I thought to myself “What am I doing in this country I have to leave.” It was just the days when the first Jewish people began to openly talk it each other we have to leave to go to America or go to Israel it is starting to begin the doors are start opening.
Sid: So you had an aunt in Israel who gave you an invitation and you applied to go but it wasn’t so easy to get out at that time. What kind of persecution did you go through?
Igor: Well at the time that I was applied in 1972 there was all kinds of snags to somebody who leave Soviet Union. For example, I had to get a good recommendation from your work and that was difficult it was almost impossible to get we have to fight for their back I spent 6 months just begging my supervisor to write me a good letter. And just the negative they would not accept in the police you have to be good. And usually they would not accept that was done on purpose at that time so they knew that supervisors would not want to write us a good letter become we have become an enemy of the country. And so I had a difficult time receiving that letter but finally I did receive that letter as we were leaving the Soviet Union we were given 24 days to leave the country. And the last days my grandparents at the station was stripped bare and my mother was I didn’t know why they selected my 80 year old grandparents and that’s who were leaving Soviet Union, my mother, my grandmother and my grandfather so they checked everything everywhere.
Sid: Did the KGB make it difficult for you before you were leaving?
Igor: Every one of us had to quit our work our job so we could not get any money and we did not know when we were leaving the Soviet Union.
Sid: Why did you have to quit your job?
Igor: Because they fire you because when I applied to go to Israel it implies to them the different countries had no diplomatic relationship we become like the enemies of the state at that time. And throughout all the ways throughout all the way through 80’s I think they cancel your job you can no longer go back to work. And so you become an enemy of the state an you cannot go back to work but they demand a good recommendation from your boss. Now imagine this Sid the situation and no boss, no supervisor rather, wanted to give a good recommendation to a person like that. And so it becomes a tension and the time is nothing, the money is scarce and every week I have to report to KGB office and every week a KGB officer will say you are not going anywhere we are not letting you out. And I have to say “I am going” and they’d say “Withdraw your papers you’re hurting your family yourself we gave you an education we made you champion and you’re leaving us you are not going anywhere you’re only going possibly to jail.” And I have to persist in that again and again and again until it was said “We don’t even want citizenship in Russia anymore and just take our passports just do with them whatever you want. You either letting us go or we’re no longer citizens here do whatever you want to do with us.”
Sid: How did it feel when you finally were leaving?
Igor: Suddenly we received permission out of nowhere out of nowhere we received a permission a year and a half later after I made my request. And we were given 24 days I felt very exuberant, very extremely happy but yet there was a concern inside too because I was actually going no knowing where. Going there not knowing where I was not leaving Russia because I knew America was great or I knew that Israel was great I was leaving Russia because I felt Russia was bad to me.
Sid: Igor our time is up we’ll pick up right here this is such a supernatural experience you’re about ready to hear the Jews require a sign.
Sid: I’ve got a Jewish man on the telephone oh is he red hot for the Messiah he’s come from such a good Orthodox traditional home. His whole life he’s spent in Yeshiva that’s a Jewish education he even studied in Yeshiva in Israel. He graduated from Yeshiva University in the United States and he became the better known motivational speakers in the world he spoke before stadiums with 80,000 people. He had a bestselling book, he had a wonderful home in Hawaii everything was going wonderful and one day his wife who was raised in a Christian home said to him “Peter we should thank Jesus for all of our blessings.” And he told her “You shouldn’t thank Jesus you should thank me Peter!” because he was into a religion of humanism at this point of “I can do anything.” And his life fell apart and he was offered a job in the United States he was in Hawaii at the time and offered a job in the United States at a high-tech marketing company. He made more money than anyone could ever spend in a lifetime and it would be quick. But he found out very quickly that this company wasn’t what it was reported to be and he withdrew but he found out that the Federal Trade Commission had sued him an $85 million lawsuit. You move from his great mansion in Hawaii to a 2 bedroom apartment in Dallas, Texas. The legal fees took away everything. At that point did you connect when you said “Don’t thank Jesus thank me that had something to do with the plug being pulled Peter?
Peter: Oh definitely not, not at the beginning I just thought “This is something that I’ll be able to take care of and this will go away pretty quickly and I’ll deal with it.”
Sid: At what point did you realize that you bumped into your first crisis that all of your books and all of your speaking all of your religion of humanism could not help.
Peter: Well you know it’s interesting that at some point and I can’t tell you exactly when it was a couple of months into it and remember I’d been preaching around the world positive thinking. You know this is something I could handle I teach this stuff. What I realized is the difference between positive thinking and faith positive thinking hits the wall when you’re sued for $85 million by the government (Laughing) that’s when I realized. And I hit a point Sid where this is not like me at all where I reached a point of total desperation. My reputation was gone and of course I’m fast forwarding this is a couple of months the money’s gone, my reputations gone, the work is gone and I’m inconsolable inconsolable. My wife never stopped having faith, she never doubted for a minute that everything would be okay, but my reaction to her positiveness for a lack of a better word was even more desperation and even more anger and even more frustration. Because I just didn’t get it I couldn’t image why somebody would be positive in this situation.
Sid: But you taught this your whole Peter!
Peter: I know that’s what my wife used to say you know (Laughing.)
Sid: Positive thinking is wonderful until you bump into your first crisis.
Peter: Yeah and it can even get you though some of them but it couldn’t get me though this one and that’s for sure.
Sid: Okay there’s a 2 week period where you could not sleep.
Peter: Yeah and now literally for 2 straight weeks I could not sleep. And so now on top of the mental, the psychological trauma now physically my body is turning into a wreck which of course compounds the mental aspects. I am a complete and total wreck.
Sid: I mean you literally I’ve read about this as an adult you would curl up in a fetal position and just weep.
Peter: Yup there was no way to consol me I didn’t see a way out.
Sid: What about suicide?
Peter: Well I started having those thoughts that now that I’ve spoken with so many people I’ve seen that a lot of men have had them at some point and I start realizing, not thinking, but knowing that I’m worth more to my family dead than I am alive. But of course there’s a challenge with that they couldn’t collect the insurance money if it’s a suicide.
Sid: You were in a real impossible situation. Imagine that Mishpochah owing $85 million being no way of getting out. And not sleeping how could a human even do that you couldn’t sleep for about 2 weeks?
Peter: Yeah yeah it was a time of my life and I could not have ever anticipated any of this happening.
Sid: Tell me your worst night?
Peter: Well the worst night was really the night before the last. I reached what I now consider a beautiful day it was that point it’s over tomorrow. Total and complete despair with no way out I had already contemplated I had creatively imagined a way where I could make it look natural so that my family would be able to live well. And I knew that there was no tomorrow, I just knew it. And I don’t know Sid I don’t know to this day I don’t know what cause me to do what I’m about to tell you I did perhaps it was the 3 years of constant prayers by my wife and her family, but when I knew that there was no tomorrow feeling absolutely torn no way out before bed I knew that if I didn’t sleep this night it was over in the morning I knew it. But I got down on my knees and until this day I never got down on my knees Jews don’t do that but I got down on my knees and I said “Jesus if You’re real now’s the time to show me because I need help and there’s not going to be a tomorrow.” And amazing thing Sid isn’t just that I slept through the night which I did which was a miracle in itself but the real amazing thing was that I woke up knowing it was fine. Knowing it was all going to be over that my life was no longer my own I didn’t have to carry this burden…
Sid: But wait wait you still owe that money!
Peter: Supernaturally I didn’t have to worry about it I gave it up it did not matter it just didn’t matter. All of a sudden I had a peace in me that was way beyond my natural circumstances. I had a peace in me that was not affected by what was going on me not in this world.
Sid: Why did you pray to Jesus?
Peter: That’s a great question I have to answer it by saying it was:
- Out of desperation, but
- It was all of those people who had been praying for me.
Sid: Okay wonderful you have all of this wonderful shalom, this wonderful peace, but you still owe $85 million.
Peter: Yeah but and it didn’t really make sense to anybody around me how I could be so peaceful but I just knew and I did not worry about it. And I’ll fast forward to towards the end of the story.
Peter: And now I’m about ready to have my deposition we get in there they question me the Federal Trade Commission attorney’s question me for 8 solid hours. I’m fine there’s no anxiety what so ever the day after the deposition they call my attorneys and say “Listen we’re willing to settle the case for zero dollars.” I remember I was in the Phoenix airport when I got the call from my attorney’s and right then I just wanted to drop on the floor and just “Thank you God!” I’d never imaged the direct hand of God on my life like it was then because there’s no natural explanation.
Sid: You know the missing thing in the Yeshiva was Jesus.
Peter: That’s exactly right and now I know it and now I realize it like my family like everything with all of the different things that have gone wrong naturally we had never been closer. We’ve never had more joy in our lives than we do now but it gets better every day.
Sid: But you were raised your whole life not to believe Jesus is the Messiah. You explain that reaction when your wife said “Let’s thank Jesus for our blessings.” How could you make such a switch?
Peter: Obviously I couldn’t do it by myself. It was not something that I would make a conscious decision and emotionally I just switch. It was just this beautiful all-encompassing knowing, just knowing. Then I was still a challenge that I could be Jew and still be a committed Jew and accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. Now that’s something I worked out and loved tremendously.
Sid: You know Peter in my opinion and I believe that the Spirit of God and the word of God says this there’s going to be such an outpouring of God’s Spirit on Jewish people….
Sid: So many Orthodox Jews are having revelations of the Messiah. I’ve got a Jewish man on the telephone I’m speaking to him at his home in Dallas, Texas his name is Peter Hirsch. He spent his whole life in traditional Orthodox Judaism. He went to a Yeshiva that’s a religious school his whole life. He even ended up in Israel in a Yeshiva. He even went to a Jewish law school. Peter Hirsch paint me a picture of the best financial moment and your lifestyle and your life.
Peter: Sid (Laughing) that’s really easy for me to do because it wasn’t too long ago life was grand. If you can picture this my wife and I were living in a 4000 square foot home on the beaches of Kauai just to give you a picture of what that looked like my office was in my home and my office over looked through the glass doors that led out to the 90’ balcony it over looked both the ocean and the mountains of Kauai just absolutely beautiful. A couple of times a month I would travel give a talk on success on motivation on sales training to a generally a Fortune 500 or a direct sales company. Taking in more money I had ever thought possible and I was a lawyer before that. So life was just grand financially.
Sid: What’s the largest audience you spoke before?
Peter: That was easy and it was a few times it was about 80 to 85,000 people.
Sid: Your best month your best money you were making a month?
Peter: The best month was $100,000 a month.
Sid: I would say you were doing very very well, but one day your wife Diana it was one evening she said to you “We should thank Jesus for all of our blessings.” What happened inside of Peter Hirsch?
Peter: Well that did not sit well and the scene was perfect. It was such a glorious late afternoon early evening was sitting on the deck holding hands watching the sunset and she whispers to me Sweetie we’re so blessed you really need to thank Jesus. And you could just imagine how quickly her hand dropped from mine it was more of a throwing action then I let go.
Sid: Well you loved this woman why would you react like that?
Peter: You know what inside there was no way in my mind a Jew could ever thank Jesus.
Sid: Now your wife was raised Christian?
Peter: My wife was raised Christian.
Sid: And that didn’t bother you when you got married?
Peter: You knew it did but she knew this is an area you just don’t budge with me. I had left traditional Judaism but there is something called the “Pinto of Yid,” I still had the Jewish spark in me that nothing could get rid of. And my wife had a love for Judaism and all of that and it was fine as long as she didn’t bring up Jesus.
Sid: Alright she brought it up what emotions describe to me what happened inside of you when she said “We should thank Jesus for all of our blessings?”
Peter: More than anything I was furious I was furious I saw her giving credit to an invisible false false god false prophet for all of my work. And I actually said that to her I was so angry and I just said “Sweetie!” in a very harsh tone I said “Not only shouldn’t you thank Jesus but you should thank me because I’m the one that worked my butt off for all of this.”
Sid: In retrospect Mishpochah when he made that statement everything in his life began to fall apart. But before we even get there Peter I want of find out with such a wonderful traditional Orthodox Jewish background being in Yeshiva all of these years even in this school of higher education Jewish school of higher education in Israel Yeshiva what caused you to take a step back from the Orthodox Jewish lifestyle?
Peter: It’s a good question and I’ve asked myself many times because it wasn’t that I was rebellious as much as I was just unsatisfied. You know I had done all of the rituals I had grown up doing all of the rituals and I still respect them it’s just something inside me was completely unfulfilled. So I rested and said “There has just got to be something more.”
Sid: Now did your parents want you to be a Rabbi?
Peter: Yeah and it was somewhat expected that I would I had gone for Yeshiva training my whole life and I’d gone to Israel for a number of years and I was certainly headed in that direction. But there was something in me that it became more routine, if I can put it this way there was no passion in it.
Sid: Now speaking of passion you actually developed a passion for a New Age Humanistic type of teaching tell me about that.
Peter: Yeah and I have no idea where this came from but I became after I left law school I had no passion for the practice of law either. For many years about 8 years after that I became a sales trainer, motional speaker, speaking on and I would never use the word humanism I would never use the words New Age but it was those types of concepts that I would teach to audiences all around the world not just the country but around the world. Concepts that whatever you want you can get it’s all within you can set the goals, you can focus, you will literally declare when you set a goal your mind will act like heat seeking missile and instead of saying “Thy will be done” you will be declaring “My will be done.” That was the kind of thing that I taught all around the world.
Sid: So that was new reaction that came out of your mouth when your wife said “Let’s thank Jesus for all of our blessings.”
Peter: Oh at that point I was very consistent.
Sid: But after that your life it just changed it radically changed tell me about it.
Peter: Radical radical change. What happened was my wife was very smart that after I said “Don’t thank Jesus!” she just stepped back to avoid the lightning.” Well the lightning didn’t come right away it came about a week later at the advice of my intuition which is not a word that I use much anymore and the advice of friends I was offered a position in Dallas, a 5 year old company was being purchased by new investors. It was…they were turning it into a .com taking it public and I was going to be able to retire with more money than my grandchildren needed and I was only 33 years old. It seemed like just an incredible deal…
Sid: I mean you were going to do what you were teaching people all over the world that they could accomplish these great goals you were about ready to actually prove it.
Peter: Absolutely I mean this was this was it.
Sid: Okay at that time you had a bestselling book on success.
Peter: Hm hm.
Sid: How many copies did that book sell?
Peter: About a half million copies in many languages.
Sid: And you’re about ready to become have more money that anyone deserves or could even spend in a life time this is a big bonanza, but when did you realize it might not be as good as it looks?
Peter: Well I was there for about 3 or 4 months and I see that this not clean that this is not kosher the new owners the new investors are not acting in any way that I would want to be associated with. It’s very simple I made a mistake I take the responsibility and I leave I resign. I’m there 3 to 4 months my integrity in tact I leave big deal. In fact it was a very big deal because the Federal Trade Commission, the FTC, powerful branch of the US Government sues the owners some of the new people, some old employees and they name me. Now this stunned me.
Sid: But you’re out why should they come after you?
Peter: That’s a good question for this day we don’t have an answer to that I don’t know. But I’ll tell you…
Sid: But you have lots of money so you could hire good attorneys.
Peter: There was no question, but you know what when you’re sued for $85 million.
Sid: Eighty-five million dollars?!
Peter: Eighty-five million dollars at some point that lots of money can go very quickly.
Sid: Peter hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow….
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest says that the veil between Heaven and Earth is getting thinner. That’s why we’re hearing of so many people having visitations to Heaven, so many people seeing the invisible world, seeing angels, so many people being able to understand the invisible world. And she says she can teach you to see into this invisible realm. Anyone interested? Me, too. You know, as I read the Tanakh, the Jewish Scriptures, I see a term there called “seer” and it’s always intrigued me no end. Ana, you are a New Covenant seer. Explain what a seer is exactly.
ANA: So a seer, that term, it’s not a wackado term. It’s been in the Bible, it’s been there for all times. But a seer is somebody that hears from the Lord, they get wisdom from the Lord primarily through the gift of sight and they prophesy or discern into a situation with that gift.
SID: Now you see things sometimes over people. Give me an example of where you saw something over a person and it resulted in them being helped.
ANA: Sure. Often, because I work in healing ministry a lot, so sometimes when I’m praying for someone or someone comes for a prayer I will see an area of their body highlighted. Like one time I was praying for this lady and I saw her shoulder and it was highlighted in a different color. It just looked purple. And she did not actually ask me for a prayer for that. But I said, “Hey, is your shoulder hurting? What’s going on with your shoulder?” And she said, “Yes, it is hurting.” So I prayed for, our team and myself, prayed for this lady. And as we were praying I could see the presence of the Lord come over her shoulder and I could see a literal color change. And I said, “Well what’s going on now because your shoulder looks better. What’s going on?”
SID: You have an unfair advantage over the devil. That’s pretty cool. I like that. Do you ever see words over people?
ANA: Yes. So I will see words also where sometimes sickness gets locked in our body because we’ve got hurt or wounds, or other things.
ANA: Unforgiveness, bitterness, things that we hold on to. So sometimes I might see the word, like “unforgiveness” or “bitterness” over someone and I’ll know that’s the root, that’s where the enemy has got them, that’s why sickness is on them. So we’ll go after that. We’ll pray together, is there something going on in your life where you can’t forgive somebody. And through that then they get healed as I’ll walk them through that forgiving that person. Then they receive healing.
SID: When was the first time you could remember seeing in the invisible world?
ANA: When I was five years old, I was playing in my room and an angel walked in.
SID: Were you afraid?
ANA: I wasn’t.
ANA: Isn’t that weird? You would think stranger, danger, I would be scared. But it wasn’t like. It was like my best friend just walked in the room, and he was really warm and friendly. And we played together, and he told me his name was Timothy. I asked him, “What’s your name?” Kids just ask whatever they want. So I said, “What’s your name?” He said Timothy. He told me he’s my guardian angel and I asked him, “Can I touch your wings?” He said, “Sure.” So I got to touch his wings.
SID: What does his wings feel like? I’ve never touched an angel’s wings.
ANA: It was really gentle, like soft, but also very firm and strong.
SID: Tell me about the next time you saw an angel.
ANA: I was a missionary in Brazil and I was working in the drug trafficking slums, and I had gone with a bunch of my friends went to our other friend’s house that evening. So I was very naïve, very ambitious, but very naïve, and I thought, I’m going to go walk home on my own. And I hadn’t been in the country very long, and I didn’t speak Portuguese at the time. So I started walking. I got completely lost. Very quickly, I was lost. It was very scary. I’m not going to lie. It was very scary because all around me I could see drug traffickers.
SID: You were in a bad area of town.
ANA: I was in bad area. I was in a slum and I could see men carrying guns and there was also children, little boys like seven years old carrying guns. And they were approaching me. It’s like, you don’t belong here, and they were coming closer and closer, and closer. So little woman of faith that I am here, I got down on my knees and I just started crying, and I said, “God, I need your help. I need your help. I am so stupid and naïve to do this on my own, and I am lost. I need help and I need help now.” My life was really in danger. And I heard the Lord’s voice and he just said, “Ana, look up.” So I looked up, looked down. The blocks go like a zig-zag, and I looked down the block and I saw an angel, and he was staring at the end of the block, and waved, picked a flower and dropped it, and then took off. So it didn’t take me a second to think what I was going to do. I didn’t have another option. So I just went, I’m going to get that flower, chase that angel. So I ran to the end of the block, picked up the flower and then looked down the next block, and there he was at the very next block, and he did the same thing. So I ran to the next block, picked up the flower, and this kept going on and on, and on. It was like an hour and a half of just zig-zagging through, until the very last flower he dropped was at my doorstep, and I was back home.
SID: And Ana told me she actually pressed one of the flowers to always remember it, and you have it right there.
ANA: I did. I brought it.
SID: Can I see it?
ANA: Yes. It even says the day I was lost and I followed an angel home. I brought it.
SID: Wow! That is neat. You’ll always remember this and you’ll always remember not to walk in a country where you don’t speak one word, alone, in the drug traffic area. When we come back, I want Ana to pray for you to have your eyes opened to see angels. Be right back.
SID: Okay Karen. You’re ready for the ministry of your life, what you’re created for. I mean the Israeli army wanted you to do the same thing you did in Jericho. You get back to your destiny, you’re in Jerusalem, you’re managing these Palestinian camps and then the persecution gets beyond the pale. They literally try to kill her. Tell me about that day.
KAREN: Well that was very recent. A year ago. They surrounded our church, they gassed us, they threw rocks through the window. Nine people got hurt.
SID: This was the Palestinian militants?
KAREN: Yes in Jerusalem. Arab/Israelis and some of the Palestinian militants from the West Bank. There was a weapons specialist that used to work for President Arafat. There was another few of the men that had been arrested by the Israeli army for previous incidents. They wanted my building to make a mosque and they just were relentless. I’m talking about 4-1/2 months of serious persecution where I couldn’t even step outside without them saying, ‘We’re going to kill you.”
SID: Okay so you’re in your church and they come up to you. Was it from behind? What did they do?
KAREN: One morning I go outside and I’m feeling that God’s going to give me a breakthrough and I’m waving a flag that says Yeshua. Sunday morning, 10 o’clock, waiting for our service to start. People are coming in and as I was walking towards our double doors behind me the men charged me and just hit me from behind and fractured my wrist. I flipped into the air, my knee was cracked. I mean I was bleeding in the face. I don’t remember exactly all that happened. All I remember is the initial impact.
SID: And you told me you left your body.
KAREN: Oh for sure. I laid on the ground and I left my body. I couldn’t breathe and all of a sudden I’m just in the air with Jesus. I’m just in the air with Jesus. I’m saying to the Lord and I feel the Lord had put this in my heart because afterwards I thought it was a strange thing to be praying about when there was no life in my body laying there in front of the church, but I began to tell the Lord, “Lord they’re laughing at you, they’re blaspheming you.” I said, “Your enemies are mocking you.” I said, “I have no breath, I’m laying there like a piece of flesh.” And it was a woman, an Israeli, came out of the church, Kathy. She began to pray in tongues and then I heard a heavenly choir. I just hear this angel singing and it was just so beautiful and next thing I know it was like a lighting bolt hit me, the breath of God comes back in me and I’m on my feet. I really felt like I shot into the air but I’m standing on the earth and I tell my secretary, “Give me the flag.” I didn’t even know my wrist was fractured and I began to wave the flag wildly. They were watching and I was just waving this flag in front of their cameras just screaming, “Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!”
SID: But then a group of Chinese came to Israel and they had these big drums. How long did they play these drums?
KAREN: 72 hours.
SID: And at the end of 72 hours, and this wasn’t just drums. This was spiritual warfare at the highest level. What happened at the end of 72 hours?
KAREN: Well it was so wonderful because when they arrived they said, “Pastor Karen we know how to fight the dragon.” They just beat those drums for three days and prophesied and I felt it in the spirit. I just all of a sudden felt a flood of peace and I knew the stronghold had fallen.
SID: I believe that if you pray for people right now to be drenched in the love of God, it’s going to change your life. I believe that. Pray.
KAREN: Holy and righteous Father, we just thank you. We boldly come to the throne of grace and Lord we come for all of these out here that are so thirsty God. Lord, these that are out there that have never really known love God. Those that just need this unconditional love, to drench them, to pour over them, to transform their lives. Lord there’s so many out there God and I just ask God, your mercy triumphs judgment God. I ask that you just breakthrough today God and drench those that are out there God. They’ve waited so long for you God. Drench them with those rivers, those waterfalls of love God. I have a vision. I have a vision right now of a waterfall just coming your way. Just coming your way. Just waterfalls. Just rivers coming your way. This is your time for love.
SID: Some of you just experienced being drenched in God’s love and some of you don’t know or have intimate knowledge of God. This is your moment. You’ve felt his presence now say with your mouth, repeat after me. “Dear Jesus, forgive me of all of my sins. I’m sorry. I believe your love washes away my sins and makes me clean. And now that I’m clean Jesus come inside of me. I make you Lord of my life. Amen.”
SID: Karen you’ve been bathed, drenched, I love that word, drenched daily in the love of God. Were you fearful of the Mafia listening to your conversations, following you everywhere, trying to poison you at that point?
KAREN: No. I was laying on my bed meditating on just how beautiful and how good God was. I was no longer afraid of anything. I just wanted to keep being drenched by the love of God. The Lord gave me a vision and I saw the Lord and he had these very large clopping shears. He was cutting wires and I knew that it was finished, that the Mafia would never follow me again. That day there was a white van outside, a big guy got out of the van and he threw a football in the air and he said, “Touchdown.” And they took the wires off my house.
SID: I’ll tell you what if God is for you, who would dare be against you. Your son Blake prophesied to you one day and says, “Mom I think we should help the hungry, the starving, the needy people of the world.” That sounded right to you and then you started moving in miracles. Tell me about the lady in the park that was dying from cancer.
KAREN: Oh it was just wonderful. Her name was Mary and she had cancer all over her. I think she had seven cancers if I remember right. The doctors told her there was no hope for her, to not come back any more. I told her, I said, “Well I serve Jesus.” I said, “Cancer’s no problem for Jesus.” And I said, “Let me pray for you.” So I prayed for her and she said the next morning there was a lump on her and it was gone. She went back to the doctor and it was so funny, she said they bought a new machine, $100,000. They couldn’t figure out, thought there was something wrong with their equipment and she was giggling. She says, “Now they want me in there all the time. They want to know what I’m eating and everything else.” She was a poor woman, they wanted nothing to do with her. Now that the Lord was healing her and the cancer was getting smaller and smaller and smaller, she said they want her in there all the time. They’re asking her all these questions, “What are you doing? What are you eating?” I said, “Tell them Jesus.”
SID: So you get a call to go to Israel. Tell me briefly about that.
KAREN:I got the call to go to Israel the first time with the Samuel Howells Bible College in Wales. The second time I was, every time I heard the word Israel I would … The spirit of God would fall on me and it was like he gripped me and he told me, “You must go to Jerusalem.”
SID: And you do that?
KAREN: I did.
KAREN: Of course.
SID: And then you were directed to a refugee camp in Jericho and you started going through horrible persecution. What did they do to you? Because she’s a witness. Tell me the type of persecution you went through.
KAREN: Well when I moved into the refugee camp I was the only one in a Palestinian refugee camp. It was a militant refugee camp. You know the Israeli army tanks would come in and it was very edgy during the Iraqi war, so I’m in the camp talking about Jesus and they blew up my car, they threw Molotov’s through my windows, all kind of things happened. They talked about me on the mosque. It was war.
SID: Did they talk about you on the loudspeakers?
SID: What did they say about you?
KAREN: They said, “There’s an American here going to steal our children.” And they said, “She’s giving out food. Don’t go there.” And the more they spoke about me on the mosque the bigger the crowds would get around our house.
SID: Tell me about the Muslim man that had the incurable eye disease.
KAREN: I remember this guy. I mean he was just, we were trying to help him. He had 10 children. He came to me one time and his eyes were all infected and running and he said, “Mohammed’s power is greater than Jesus.” I thought, “Well have Mohammed take care of you.” The spirit of the Lord just gripped me, and said, “You pray for him and you tell him if Mohammed’s power is greater he will never be healed but if Jesus’s power is greater he’ll be healed immediately.” I prayed for him and the next day he came and his eyes were totally healed.
SID: Tell me about the last big fire bombing.
KAREN: This is fire number 7. Like 7 years of famine, 7 fires. The fire came in, they used 100 plastic chairs, put them up against the house and made an explosive that every window in the house blew out when the explosive went off. I heard Thomas scream, “Fire!”. The kids, I had two volunteers then, not many. Now we have closer to 50 but back then it was hard to have volunteers because the persecution was so high. They run out so I started crying out to the Lord. I said, “Lord, what? Around this mountain again? Buying more furniture again? The house all full of flames?” At that point I knew I could walk through fire and not get burned. At that point, I mean, I was convinced God would rescue me but I was tired of fires. And the Lord said to me, the Lord said, “If you would just lift your hands in the air and you will praise me and you will give me glory,” God said, “I’ll carry you into the next realm.” I told the kids, they were worshipers, I said, “Come on we’ve got to worship. We’ve got to praise the Lord.” We just lifted our hands in the air and began to praise. I just want to say if you’re out there right now and you’re just being crushed, every wall is caving in, if you would just give him glory, if you would just lift your hands and praise him, God is going to carry you through.
SID: You’re doing such a marvelous job there that you get called to Jerusalem. What did the Israeli army say to you?
KAREN: The Israeli army called me in after about 5 years. They said, “We’ve watched what you’ve done.” They said, “When you first come into Jericho we thought you were crazy.” But they said, “You’ve accomplished much.” And they said that terrorism has fallen in the city of Jericho. They said, “There’s 27 more refugee camps out there. We want you to move into Jerusalem and take an office in Jerusalem because you’re a partner with Israel.”
SID: Did they give you the office?
KAREN: No, no. We rented the office but they gave me a political status and they registered us sovereignly as an NGO.
SID: Alright, everything now, she’s at the height of her ministry. She has success in one Palestinian camp, Jericho. The Israeli army takes note of it and says, “We want you to open up an office and manage over 20 Palestinian camps. Do the same thing.” She’s so excited.
SID: You know, Katherine Ruonala is known for having intimacy with God. Katherine, if there’s one thing that you can help us with to achieve this intimacy with God, what is the key?
KATHERINE: You know, I believe it is fellowship with God through worship, through a life of worship. And worship is, I used to think of it as this strange conduct. Why would God want us to tell him how good he was all the time? But actually, worship is a Divine embrace. It’s like when I was a young mom and my little kids would see me when I came home, they’d put their arms up and go, “Up Mommy, up!” And I couldn’t resist. I’d want to scoop them up. And you know what, that’s what worship is like for us. We come to God and we say, “Up, Daddy! Help!” And he runs towards us, scoops us up, and just as we love on him, he loves on us, and he tells us we have to pray for supernatural help to handle how much love he wants to give us.
SID: Well is worship an event such as singing to God or is it a lifestyle for you?
KATHERINE: For me, worship is an absolutely lifestyle. It’s not just singing. It is actually living in adoration to God. Everything, the whole of creation is our invitation to respond to God in worship, to have fellowship with him and that’s where joy comes from. You could live joyful knowing that he loves you.
SID: You know, I believe if it didn’t release miracles, if it didn’t release favor, if it didn’t release healing, if it didn’t release solving family problems you would live a life of worship anyway.
KATHERINE: There’s nothing, nothing more glorious. We were created for worship.
SID: Would you worship God just for a moment. I want to watch you worship God. Would you?
KATHERINE: You know, I believe even as we talk about him we are worshiping him. The Holy Spirit, he leads us in revelation knowledge of him and then God manifests himself through us. As we are communing with him we get to manifest him.
SID: I feel his presence as you’re talking about him right now. Tell me a few miracles that have happened.
KATHERINE: You know, I believe that as we live this lifestyle of intimacy with God, God wants to show himself strong. We had a couple bring a little foster baby, 18 months old, to a meeting, and she, they think she had been shaken as an infant. Her eyes couldn’t focus. She had one eye would go this way, one eye go this way, and she had no sense of balance, had never walked as a result. And we just commanded her eyes in the name of Jesus to come straight, and in front of everybody, God just straightened her eyes. People gave their lives to the Lord on the spot.
SID: You know what’s so amazing, here we are in Jerusalem, and they have the Muslim prayers on loud speakers right now. I’m looking for the day that we have Christians worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the name of the one Messiah, the whole world, the Jew, Jesus, Yeshua Ha’Mashiach on loud speakers.
KATHERINE: Well you know, and when we see God do miracles it causes people to respond to God and worship. And I got called one night into the intensive care unit and a man had had a terrible accident. It was a logging accident. He had been in a tractor, rolled down a cliff and had huge gashes in his head. They had operated, but they couldn’t get all the mud and the gunk out of the deep gashes because it was just so deep and so dangerous. And so we worshiped God in the intensive care and just thanked God for healing. I felt the release of power and we just worshiped God there. I left. He was unconscious. We didn’t see anything, but I knew God had done something. Well the next day, the nurses said that they had never seen anything like it.
SID: What happened?
KATHERINE: As he was lying on his bed unconscious, suddenly the gashes in his head started spurting out all the dust and the mud, and the gunk all over his pillow, and he was completely healed. He didn’t even need an operation.
SID: Do you know something, when you have a lifestyle of worship of God there’s not enough that God can do for you. He wants to do so much more for you than he’s doing right now. But in fact, he wants to heal you right now. I know as a fact there are people with arthritic fingers, the pain is gone, and back and neck problems, what is God showing your right now? Pray for the sick.
KATHERINE: You know, I believe even as you’re watching God wants to touch you. We see so many people healed even as we pray when people are watching. So right now whatever you need, I believe the God who loves you more than life, even if you don’t know him, he wants to make himself real to you. He loves in a way that is practical. So right now in Jesus’ name, I’m going to pray, Holy Spirit, Lord, whatever the miracles they need touch their bodies. I thank you, Lord, for eyes being opened. I thank you, Father, for a brain tumor right now disappearing in the name of Jesus. And Lord, I pray above all that everyone watching, everyone hearing the sound of my voice, Lord, that they would have the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of you, the eyes of their understanding would be enlightened, God, that they would personally know you, that they would experience you and find you, and feel you, Lord, that you would be so real to them because you don’t want to be a concept to them. You don’t want to be just a theology. You want to be their friend. Lord, make yourself real to them. Open the eyes of their heart as they cry out and say, “help.” If you’re watching just say, “Help, Lord, I want to know you and I thank you, Lord.” You delight to him.
SID: There is something going on right now in the invisible world. There is a flood of liquid love coming out to you from Katherine’s heart of worship. There are rivers of living water pouring out to you right now. If you have never said with your mouth, God, forgive me of my sins, I’m so sorry. I believe the blood of Jesus washes them away and now that I am clean, I ask Jesus to live inside of me. Give me a new heart, a new spirit. Become my Lord. Use your own words. It doesn’t have to be my words. Just “Jesus help” was enough to get it done for me. But this is your moment to have experiential knowledge with the Living God and live a life of worship. Yes.
SID: Katherine, a word, when I think about you I think about two things. I think about miracles and someone that has such intimacy with God that the miracles are natural. To you, what does intimacy with God mean?
KATHERINE: You know, the Bible talks about us becoming one with him. Because of the cross we have the privilege of actually being one with him and his desire, the joy that was set before him was that we would fellowship with him. That is we could be real with him, talk with him and hear what he’s saying, and tell him everything that’s going on in our hearts. You know, I believe if we learn how to really lean on him and not try to work out things with our own understanding, but to lean on him, to involve him in every aspect of our lives then he makes our path straight. And I tell you what, Christ in us, he has big dreams.
SID: You know something that I’m, from the people I interview and my study of the Bible, of course, there’s something called being filled with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues or supernatural languages. But I hear so little and yet when I interview people that move in extraordinary miracles they have had what the Bible calls a baptism of fire. Tell me about the time you had a baptism of fire.
KATHERINE: Well you know, I would read people like Maria Woodworth-Etter and John G. Lake, and Smith Wigglesworth, and their experiences with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And I used to think to myself maybe I missed something. I received the gift of tongues when I was about 13, and I’d pray in tongues, and that’s powerful. But I wasn’t doing the stuff that they were doing, and I thought what have I missed. And I began to think, well Lord, you said you were going to come and baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire. So I just began to press in and contend with God, saying, Lord, I want a baptism of fire. And I tell you, God just began to do such a deep work on my life. I was forever changed and his power now, he manifests himself in amazing miracles.
SID: Describe a specific moment in your history and what happened with this baptism in fire.
KATHERINE: Well I used to go and rent videos, when I was mom with little kids, of people who moved in miracles. I’d watch Kathryn Kuhlman and different ones. And one day the video man that I was renting these videos from, he prayed for me. And as I walked off the bus I got in the car and suddenly the power of God came on me in such an amazing way. I shook and I laughed, and I cried, and you know, from that moment on things have been different. The Lord, he comes with such power and such holy boldness, and I believe that’s what the baptism of fire is.
SID: Now out of curiosity, were you always as bold as you are now?
KATHERINE: Sid, I was one of the most self-conscious and insecure people that you could have met, but it’s the perfect love of God. It’s in intimacy with him that his love casts out fear. You see, if we’re not receiving what we need from him we’re going to be trying to get it from everybody else. We’re going to be looking at them and trying to get them to make us feel better. We’ll be afraid to do things in case we don’t get our needs for affirmation met. But when you’re receiving daily from the one who speaks to you and loves you more than you can absolutely even emotionally handle, his desire is to fill you to overflowing so that when you are interacting with people you’re no longer needing something from them. You’re overflowing with a love that empowers you and casts out fear.
SID: You know, I’m reminded of a worldly saying: You’re so heavenly minded, you’re no earthly good. I call that a lie.
KATHERINE: I think it’s ridiculous.
SID: If you become so heavenly minded that’s the only way you can be earthly good.
KATHERINE: Well I think unless you are then you’re conscious about yourself. But if you are absolutely caught up with this one who loves you more than life, and I pray from Ephesians 3. There’s a prayer in there that I pray: Lord, that you would strengthen me with might so I could understand and know the love of God that passes knowledge. I need supernatural strength to actually handle that amount of love that he wants to give me. And as I receive that, that’s what empowers me to no longer be worried about myself and I get to see what he wants. I get to hear his heart and I am empowered to be as he is in the earth, which is really exciting.
SID: You recently got back from Nicaragua. Tell me, I mean, that is a country with needs. What happened?
KATHERINE: It was a very big meeting where many, many people came. They gave out free tickets to the prostitutes of the city and we saw such astounding miracles. I mean, the first miracle we did was open a deaf ear and then after that, suddenly the faith in the room was so high. I began to call out words of knowledge. There was a lady who had a tumor on her neck, another lady with a brain tumor who walked in unable to walk properly because of the tumor, someone with a leg significantly shorter than the other to the point that she had to hem her pants. I gave these words of knowledge not knowing anything about any of them being there, and they all came up and testified that the tumor on the neck had disappeared. The lady who couldn’t walk because of the brain tumor ran up the stairs to testify. The other lady got down and showed us how her leg had grown out and she was now able to walk properly.
SID: And what I find is when people start saying God is moving and God is not a respecter of persons, that means that if he’ll do it for one person, he’ll do it for everyone. I’ll tell you what, when we come back I want you to pray for two things. I want you to pray for miracles and I want you to pray for the most important thing. To God it’s the most important thing that you yourself have your own intimacy with God because it is from this intimacy that the Messiah says all things are possible. So don’t you tell me, “but”. I tell you God says all things are possible. We’ll be right back.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I’m in the most supernatural land in the world, Jerusalem, Israel, the place that Jesus came at his first appearance, the place that Jesus is about ready to return, and the most important thing for you to know is you can have yourself experiential knowledge with God. God wants you to have experiential knowledge. And my guest is supernaturally equipped by God to help you just have experiential knowledge with God, but she operates in what is known as creative miracles, Katherine Ruonala. I’m going to tell you something. Get ready for your experience with the Living God.
You know the Wuest’s translation of the Bible says, “This is eternal life that you might have experiential knowledge of the Messiah.” Katherine, I don’t know how it happened, but at 12, your heart said, I’ve got to have more than religion. What did you pray?
KATHERINE: You know, I believe you need to be, we need to be real with God. And I was at a youth camp. Everyone was worshiping God, lifting their hands, and I just got real with him. I said, “Lord, I believe in you, but I can’t see you and I don’t know you, and it’s really hard to worship somebody I can’t see and I don’t know.” And I just said, help, and you know, right there in the middle of worship the Lord made himself real to me. I can’t explain it any other way than I was blind but now I see. He made himself real and from that day on I was different.
SID: But you know, Katherine, many times people have an experience with God, but then they get sabotaged along the way, called life. It’s like the devil knows something good is in your future and he tries to sabotage you. So the first two people that Katherine prays for that are dying from cancer, what happened to them?
KATHERINE: Sid, both of them died. And I tell you, I was so discouraged. I actually thought, you know, Lord, I love you, but I think I’m going to put this miracle healing thing in the too hard basket because it didn’t seem to, it seemed to be too risky to me.
SID: Besides that, you know what, you can get by without the supernatural.
SID: The words she said is true. It’s too risky and most of you don’t understand the definition of biblical faith is spelled R-I-S-K, risk.
KATHERINE: That is so true. It’s so true. But you know, as I was just putting this whole thing in the too hard basket, suddenly I had a vision. It was an open vision and the Lord spoke to me, and he said, “Katherine, you must believe.” You know, God’s ways are better than our ways and he said, “Lay hands on the sick and you’ll see them recover. Heal the sick.” And this was the way Jesus did it. He performed miracles and people then would listen as he told them the Good News.
SID: You know, this may be hard for you and maybe hard for you to believe, but when I first started praying for people, I had met Kathryn Kuhlman, I saw all these miracles, do you know the first at least 200 people I prayed for no one was healed, no one. One person died on me. The elders of the congregation said, “I don’t like the way Sid is praying for so many people.” But something in me would not give up.
KATHERINE: Well you know, I believe if you don’t change the subject, if you don’t quit, you win. And now we have seen so many people with cancer, incurable diseases healed.
SID: But this is ridiculous. Let me explain something to you. Jesus said, “You’ll do the same things I have done and even greater.” You told me that you absolutely expect God to heal at least one deaf person when you speak. You really have to have faith.
KATHERINE: Absolutely. Well you know, the Holy Spirit, it’s the Holy Spirit who does it. And pretty much every town I go into one of the first miracles he does is someone with a completely deaf ear gets their ear open.
SID: All right, what about something really amazing like someone with no eardrum? How do you get someone healed with no eardrum?
KATHERINE: I’ve seen four.
SID: Tell me one. Tell me about one.
KATHERINE: Four of those. Just recently in South Korea we had two people, one lady was born without an eardrum, instantly got her hearing restored. Another lady at the age of six had had a terrible infection that didn’t get treated and her eardrum was completely deformed and damaged. She had no hearing whatsoever. The doctors have just confirmed she has a perfectly formed eardrum. She instantly heard. God does this and then as soon as people can recognize, wow, that person couldn’t hear, now they can, they release their faith and amazing miracles happen without hands even being laid on.
SID: Now you teach that worship is the key to everything in life to the supernatural, to miracles, to solving family problems, to solving financial problems, just living this life in this crazy thing called life. Why is this worship so important to you?
KATHERINE: Well you know, how do you trust somebody you don’t know? When you know him, when you know how good he is and how much he loves us then it’s easy to trust him. Because I know him, because I know his love for me, his love for people, because I know his will is to bring life and healing, then I’m not putting my trust in a concept or an intellectual idea or even a theology. My trust is in somebody I know, God himself.
SID: When we come back I want to find out how you were baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Sid: We want everywhere to receive the manifestation from the invisible world to the natural world of your physical healing and I’m going to believe that many of you in the next two days are going to have physical healings. And I have on the phone Sandra Kennedy and she’s the Director of the Whole Life Ministries in Augusta, Georgia. Jesus literally she had a visit from Him and He showed her how to set up the healing schools which are nothing more than teaching people how to appropriate what God has given us in the natural realm. And if you’ve been listening all of this week you know I’ve been asking some pretty tough questions. Sandra there are many people that say all you have to do is confess God’s word to be healed. There are other people that say that’s a big crock, that’s a big waste of time what’s the truth about confessing God’s word can you get healed by doing this?
Sandra: Well you can’t get healed just by saying it no. It has to be a believing once you believe it it has to get down inside of you.
Sid: Well how do you believe it?
Sandra: Well the Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. So that’s why at the Healing Center here we teach you…first of all most people don’t know that it’s God’s will to heal. That’s because the number 1 enemy to healing.
Sid: They know that God can heal.
Sandra: Can heal.
Sid: But they don’t know if He will heal or if He will heal them.
Sandra: Right and so if you take the word the first time we do that is to show you in the word out of 3 witnesses out of Isaiah, Matthew and Peter. The Bible says “Out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let a thing be established.” So I pulled out 3 witnesses in the Bible who state up front that it’s God’s will to heal. And then if I can get you to say that it’s God’s will then you begin to confess what God says about you once you believe it. Now remember faith comes by hearing so you’ve got to hear and hear and hear and hear what God says. See what we do Sid we go to the doctor we get the doctors report and everything the doctor says is a fact I mean and it’s a fact you’re going to die unless something intervenes there. And so I don’t say ignore the fact I say that the word of God is truth and you take the truth is higher than a fact.
Sid: Well how about the people that go around saying “I don’t have cancer, I don’t have heart disease, I don’t have high blood pressure the Bible says that so I don’t. What would you say?
Sandra: Well I would say…first of all I’d talk to them a little bit because it wouldn’t take about 2 minutes to find out whether they are just parroting something they heard or whether they’re really in faith. I would say that I believe that I believe I receive my healing was the way the way that I would put it.
Sid: Would you deny your symptoms?
Sandra: I wouldn’t let my symptoms rule me I would deny no. I would simply say you know I’m having a little struggle here but I want you to know up front that I believe that I received my healing based on the word of God.
Sid: Would you say that if it hadn’t become a Rhema to you because of God you believe it but it hasn’t become a reality inside of you would you still say that before that happened?
Sandra: I would but I don’t think just saying it makes it happen I believe you have to do as God told Joshua we have to meditate on the word of God and listen and listen and listen it’s the whole center of the heart of the healing center. That you hear and you hear and you hear it from this teacher and that teach, from this angle from that angle until it becomes such a reality to you until you can say it with assurance “I believe I receive my healing based on the word of God.” And once you really do believe it you will I promise you you will see manifestations of healing begin to happen in your body. But again there a lot of people that are in mental assent a lot of people…
Sid: Explain mental assent.
Sandra: Well mental assent is just saying well I see it in the word and you’ve prepared me and your acting religious and you’re just saying a whole bunch of things because you’ve been taught to say it. But when you’re quiet and your alone by yourself and if I was a family member or I was a fly on the wall listening to you I would hear you say when you’re not around certain people I hear you say “I don’t know if I’m going to live or not, I don’t know if this is going to work, I don’t really know things get worse for me than better.” And when start that way that automatically tells me that you are not in faith. When you start with all of the negative stuff and you say one thing to one group of people and another thing to another group you know. What you say to the preacher and those that you want to praise God I had it but then when you are with family and this friend and you know I don’t really know I better get my will ready.
Sid: Or you want sympathy.
Sandra: Yeah and you are like I mean you are not walking in faith I’ll assure you you are not walking in faith when you’re doing all of that. Real faith and once you have it again faith comes by hearing you don’t just hear it one time faith comes by hearing and in the tape series that you mentioned and in the book that you mentioned. I’ve tried to help you decide very easily whether you’re in real faith or not or whether you’re just playing games in your minds.
Sid: And the wonderful thing is once you’ve nailed someone you show them how they can change their thinking.
Sandra: Right because once you can really believe and it all goes back again to the bigness of God. It always goes back to how big is your God? Is He can He do this? Do you know…do you understand His love for you, can you understand that He’s already done it? Are you excited about Him do you trust Him enough with your life, do you trust Him with Your health? Do you trust Him and even when you’re going to the doctor do you trust Him to be the surgeon, do you trust Him to be the one in the operating room? Do you trust Him when you take just medicine? Do you pray over it, do you believe God that this is going to do what it’s supposed to do? Do you thank Him and praise Him? See real faith praises God, it praises in the middle of the pain, in the middle of the problem you still praise Him for what He’s done in your life.
Sid: Where the rubber meets the road Sandra is playing with her dog and what did the dog do to you?
Sandra: Well he bite off it is a sheltie and I stooped down and she jumped up. Her tooth grabbed the side of my nose and her mouth closed on my lip and literally ripped off on the floor ripped off my lip. You know 3/8’s of an inch exactly.
Sid: So what’s the first thing that went through your mind when you realized what had happened?
Sandra: Well blood was everywhere and I didn’t know exactly what had happened and I thought…the very first thing that went through my mind was “Oh thank You Lord, thank You that you know I thank You and that this thing is going to be alright.” And then I immediately called and I went to the doctor, went to the emergency room. And I didn’t understand the extent of the problem all of this just happened last November so this hasn’t happened not long ago. So when I got to the emergency room they called a plastic surgeon. A plastic surgeon came in and he said to me that this so bad that we cannot really fix this so that it can look good. You know a plastic surgeon cannot correct this because you have literally lost the lip. And matter of fact he said to me Sid “If you were to take a nickel and put a nickel on the side of your nose on the left side of my nose and lay it beside of my lip that’s how much lip I actually lost.
Sandra: The side of a nickel; I mean ripped off. So I went…and when he said that you are going to have to go in surgery well I immediately said to him “Come here I want to pray for you.” I’d never laid eyes on him before. I said “It’s my lip it’s my face; and I’m going to pray for you to know what to do and how to handle this.” Well he came and I took his hand and I prayed for him. I wake up in the emergency room I mean in the operating room hearing him tell the nurses that normally I would have come in here and would have grafted the bottom lip up over the top lip and sewn the lip together for at least 3 weeks but for some reason I did not do that. From my point of view it was God, my prayer God that prevented him from doing that. And when I came out of the surgery he said “You will take 3 to 6 more surgeries to even…he said it will be like a cleft lip and you will be deformed basically.” And I said to him and now this is my confession I said to him “No I will not. I will never have another surgery my God will fix this lip, my God will heal it and put it back in the right place and will rebuild that lip.”
Sid: Okay Sandra I was with you recently.
Sid: I looked specifically at your lip I don’t see any problem. How much plastic surgery did you have?
Sandra: I’ve had none.
Sid: How did it heal? I mean they even said that plastic surgery you will still have a cleft lip.
Sandra: I’ve never had one… it has only been 8 months I’ve never had anything else done to it. What I did was what I teach. I took the word of God I began to speak to my lip and I began to say “By the stripes of Jesus I am healed lip I command you to move I command you.” I lay hands on it every single day I anoint it with oil and “I command you to reform yourself and to grow in the name of Jesus I command you to do it.” And again you saw me and when I went back to him he kept saying and as a matter of fact this is another point he’d pick up this big book with all of these pictures with cleft lips in it and he said “I want to show you this.” And I say “No I will not look at it.”
Sandra: And he said I want to show you what we’re dealing with.” I said “No I will not put that picture in my mind I will not look at it.” I said “What I will do is I’ll go back to my house I will find every lovely picture of me smiling that I have and I will put those pictures up and those are what I did I’ve never looked at that book and I never had any more surgery and you would have to look mighty close to see that it happened.
Sid: I looked close (Laughing).
Sandra: That wasn’t even a full smile Sid it would take a full year before I could have a full smile.
Sandra: You saw me a couple of months ago and I had a full smile.