SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I have to tell you. The presence of God is so strong that I am literally trembling under the presence of God at this moment. My guest has gone to Heaven frequently and he was instructed in Heaven how the scriptures tell us that we can access Heaven while we’re alive as believers in the Messiah. And he teaches, and multitudes then begin going to Heaven after they’re exposed to his teachings. So my guest, James Durham, at age three went to Heaven. But his parents were just nominal Christians. No paradigm for anything. What happened at three?
JAMES: Well Sid, at three, I just, one night I just got lifted up into this place that was absolutely amazing to me. I was in a place of perfect peace. There was such unity there that I had never experienced on Earth. Just saw the animals, that people were together and I just felt something so wonderful and so unique that I desired to be there. I had no idea what it was, but it was wonderful.
SID: And then at four, I mean, at four, I can’t remember three and four. At four, he doesn’t know the Bible stories. His parents would go a few times a year to church, if that. What happened at age four?
JAMES: When I was four years old, I had an open vision and it was felt like I was actually translated to a different location. And I was standing, and I was watching these animals. As they were coming by me they were going up a ramp into some kind of a building, and they were going two by two. And the little animals coming by, that was very fun to watch, but when the big cats, the lions and tigers, it really terrified me. I had no idea what I was seeing and I cried out, and when I cried out the vision ended.
SID: Well what he was seeing obviously was Noah and the ark, going two by two. When you told your parents this, were they excited?
JAMES: They were excited, but not in a good way. When I cried out, I woke up my older sister and so I was actually punished for this. And when I told them what happened, they didn’t believe me, and so I was punished for lying.
SID: Okay. At six, you’re going at this time you’re going to like a Bible camp and Sunday school, and you have another what you call an open vision. To me, an open vision is you’re seeing it happen right before your eyes. What did you see?
JAMES: Well Sid, that’s exactly what happened. I was sitting in the pew during a worship program. It was a Vacation Bible School and this was a new experience for me. But as I sat on that pew, literally I saw like the floor open in front of me and the flames of Hell just erupted up from that opening in the floor. And I felt like I could just slide right into that fire and be in Hell. At that moment, I was only six years old, but I felt convicted of sin, that I needed Jesus from what I had learned in Vacation Bible School. So I gave my heart to Jesus.
SID: He devotes his life now to being a chaplain. He was a chaplain in the Army for how many years?
JAMES: Almost 30 years.
SID: And, but the thing that intrigues me is when these visits to Heaven started in 2008. Explain.
JAMES: In 2008, two things happened sort of simultaneously. First of all, God put it on my heart, pray for Israel, every day. Every day I would get face down on the floor and repent for the things our nation had done to Israel, cry out, Shalom Jerusalem and Shalom Israel. And about that same time, I went to a large revival. And one night I came home late from the revival, and when I laid down in bed my head hit the pillow, I was literally translated to Heaven. I stood in this place in Heaven. Some people called it The Throne Room, but it was not really a room. It was huge. But I was standing looking at the throne of Jesus, and I was in so much awe of Jesus. I was literally paralyzed with awe of Jesus. And as I looked at him, just love flowed out of me, and I just felt like this is my Jesus. And I felt like I was just connecting with him in such a powerful way. And it was a life-changing experience for me.
SID: And then a few days later, a second vision. What happened?
JAMES: Well I actually, I asked the Lord if He would allow me to go back to that same place because I had a question I wanted to ask.
SID: What was that?
JAMES: I wanted to know, the Bible—
SID: I have a lot of questions. How about you? Wouldn’t you like to ask?
JAMES: Good luck asking. Ephesians 2:6 says, “We were seated with him in heavenly places.” So I actually, I wanted to know, this is kind of self-centered, but I wanted to know, where is my seat in Heaven.
SID: But wait. That’s exactly what the scriptures say. We’re already seated in heavenly places. So that’s a fair question. Did you get your answer?
JAMES: I did, but not directly. I had almost the same experience. Came back late at night from the revival meeting, very tired. But as soon as my head hit the pillow I was translated back to that exact same spot I had been the night before. And there was Jesus, and I was in awe of Jesus again. I was literally paralyzed, in awe of this amazing Jesus. And as time went on, I began to think, I believe I had a question, but I can’t remember what it is.
SID: I’ll tell you what. Hold that thought because Jesus gives him three assignments. We’ll find out about it when we come back.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah but there are things that are sabotaging you from fulfilling your destiny; from hearing God’s voice; from walking in supernatural peace 24 – 7 and it has to do with soul problems that are keeping you from the potential God has for you. I have Dr. Cindy Trimm on the telephone; the bestselling author; she’s been a guest before on Messianic Vision and I’m introducing to you the soul fast kit in which Dr. Trimm is going to coach you in a 40 day period with 8 weeks’ worth of DVD’s on 2 DVD’s and 2 books and you will heal your soul. And Dr. Trimm on yesterday’s broadcast you brought up an interesting concept. We were talking about it’s a restoration such as what Adam lost in the fall, explain that again.
Cindy: Yes, Jesus said “I’ve come to seek and to save that which was lost.” I believe what was lost in the Garden of Eden is several things: Our connectivity with God and our connectivity to who we really are as human beings. The more human we are I believe the more godly we are and most of us are living out of our fallen nature and not out of the original human nature. And our human nature was designed to represent God and to reflect God in the earth realm.
Sid: And do you find that a lot of believers because they were so sabotaged by their parents who were sabotaged by their parents, and by what people think of them that they just never fulfill their potential.
Cindy: Absolutely, absolutely and it’s interesting too because if you ask the average person who they are they’ll respond to you by telling you what they do. I’m a doctor, I’m a lawyer; I’m a husband, I’m a wife; there are roles that we play; these are things that we do. But who we really are is understood at the level of our soul because that’s the true nature of who we are. And one of the weeks in the 40 day soul fast is about awareness. When Moses has this encounter with God and he’s running he had done something; he had killed a man and so he has this stigma of being I would call it like an ex-convict some that was on the run from his past. And one encounter with God gave him the awareness of who he really was and he accepted God “Who am I that you should consider Me a deliverer?” And the same question David said “Who am I and what is my life that I should be the son-in-law of a king?” And so the question of self-awareness of “Who are we really; who does God say that we are; and to see ourselves from that perspective and not through the eyes of man.”
Sid: Okay, I have to ask you a question “You are a teacher, you are a bestselling author; you move in the gifts of the Spirit, but who are you Dr. Cindy Trimm?”
Cindy: I like everyone else am a child of God and I am a representative of God here in this earth realm. I reflect Him in His image and His likeness and then God has given me an assignment; He’s given me purpose which is the things that I’m called to do out of the person that I am. And I believe that we do more because we want to be more.
Sid: Alright in your first week let’s break this down; talk about journey to authenticity; what is journey to authenticity?
Cindy: It’s like journeying back to who God originally planned and purposed us to be. And I believe that you know that when I look at a little baby. A baby is examining his toes and everything and I think sometimes growing up we’ve learned how to do certain things because of how we were socialized; how we were raised; how we were educated. The culture impacted upon us, who we associated with and I believe that sometimes we became less and less of ourselves and more and more of something that we were never created to be. And the story of the protocol son says that he was disconnected to his true self; and when he came to himself and he said to himself he really became aware of “What I’m doing in this pigpen is not who I really am.” And he said that “I will arise.” And I believe that our standards of modern days have become lower and lower for how we live as human beings. And God is raising the standard and the more aware that we are that God created us to reflect Him in His image and His likeness. Not as consumers but as co-creators, not as followers but as leaders, not as beggars but as lenders. Once we discover that we believe that we will be able to feel alive again.
Sid: You said something interesting, you said that “If we don’t define ourselves other people will define us,” and people have been believers for 20 or 30 years and they’ve defined themselves what other people have said about them. Even though they’d been reading the Bible going to church and they’re stuck in this rut and they have problems in soul areas from addictions to emotional problems to not hearing God and they wonder why. When they take this 40 day soul fast you get every one of these things Cindy.
Cindy: Yes. And we’re talking about identity; we’re talking about identity here too. It’s about being true to who God has made you to be as an individual in Christ. And how He has constructed you; David said “I’m fearfully and wonderfully made; I’m purpose built.” That God said to Jeremiah “Before you were formed in your mother’s womb I knew you and I called you to be a prophet to the nation.” So we’re born wired to be; be specific things and to contribute in our own unique way to the betterment of society.
Sid: Tell me about exactly what you mean by a soul fast.
Cindy: The soul fast simply means that you are cutting away things and habit…habits that undermine and keep you from living a full and successful and a prosperous life in Christ Jesus.
Sid: What are some of the roadblocks to a soul fast?
Cindy: Some of the roadblocks #1 is: Living outside in rather than inside out. Waking up in the morning and just letting life happen and then reacting and responding and not knowing that we can be pro-active. Being a slave to our bodies and allowing the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye and the pride of life to dictate to how we live. And it’s interesting because as I was thinking about it and I had a conversation with a colleague of mine a couple of days ago. We were talking about the death mute Helen Keller, and she was able to break the bonds, break through the bonds of a body that could not respond to who she was and through sheer will she was able to become one of the greatest influencers within her generation, a deaf mute. And I asked a question “What is it about the human soul that not even the impotence of the human body can prevent an individual from becoming everything that they are?” If Helen Keller through the shear will of her soul could break through the impotence of her body how much more can we who do have sight and do have hearing just by cutting away the undermining effects of negative habits how much more are we able to arise and make a difference in our family, our homes and our communities if we could just get rid of those habits and the thoughts that are sabotaging who we really are.
Sid: Why do you say this will be the best 40 days of their lives?
Cindy: Because they have an opportunity to spend I call it “Me moments.” The moments when they remove themselves for a couple of minutes a day and they sit before God and through going through the word of God and utilizing the “Forty Day Soul Fast” they’re able to ask some tough questions and get some real answers for their own lives from the word of God.
Sid: And what you’re saying is as you mentor them the power of God is really bringing this awareness and getting rid of the obstacles.
Cindy: It is, yes it is.
SID: I’m having the most wonderful discussion with Larry Randolph about being who you are called to be.
SID: Rather than being a copy. Talk to that a little bit.
LARRY: I realized at that moment when the Lord talked to me that one of the things I was allergic to, if I can put it that way, was sameness. I was born in a world of sameness where people thought that being the same, everybody being the same, was seeing the same way, was unity. I didn’t realize that God is a God of harmonized diversity. Everything in the universe is in harmony, but it’s diverse. There are no two stars alike, no two raindrops alike, no two DNAs alike, no two hair strands alike, no two invertebrate alike, no two bacteria like. No universe, no star, nothing is alike in God’s universe. And I realized that I, too, had a unique reflection and I was the craftsmanship of this one of a kind phenomenon that this great artist had designed. I was a Mona Lisa. You’re a Mona Lisa, one type. And I thought, how true could that be, because God is a genius artist. He’s the artist of maximum diversity. That means He’s incapable of repetition. He’s incapable, you don’t ever paint two Mona Lisa’s. You paint one and that’s it. And I realized I’m unique, I’m real, and I realized that authenticity, my authenticity is what will attract God’s friendship, the anointing in my life. And the Lord said to me, “You have to be real. You have to be you, because I’ve made you different. No one in this world can do what I’ve called you to do because they don’t have the hardware, the DNA footprint. They don’t have the destiny, the design that I put in you.” Every person in this world has a Divine destiny, a footprint from that reflection of God that no one else owns. So if I don’t be me, the world goes without seeing that part of God.
SID: Okay. You have learned how to bless people.
SID: By giving them permission to be unique. Explain that a little.
LARRY: I feel like one of the deficits of the church is a lack of fathers and mothers who give permission for people to become. It’s called equipping saints. And we’ve been whipping the saints. And so equipping the saints means that, like your children, you give them permission. You don’t tell them, you’re going to be a doctor like me. I give you permission to follow your wildest dreams and be what God has created you to be. That’s what a good father does or mother does. So what I’ve done, what I do is I ask people, what is your wildest dream? What’s God made you to be? Is it a musician, is it a doctor, is it what are you unique about? I give you permission as a spiritual father to be everything God has called you to be. Because we are steeped in a theology of sameness, we need somebody to break the mold in our life for us to become what God has called us to be, which is different.
SID: I’m going to ask you to pray for us.
SID: To break the mold of being copies.
SID: It’s time for us to be authentic, unique and fulfill our destiny. Now you had two encounters with the Lord. Tell me about them briefly.
LARRY: Briefly, the one encounter with the Lord was the Lord, I woke up one night and the Lord, as He does many times, He stands at the foot of my bed, which is His favorite spot, the foot of my bed, and He sang to me. He sang the song to me, “Have I Told You Lately That I love You” and it was just amazing. I wept under the love of God and how much He loved me. And He loved me because I’m a unique reflection of himself. As Paul said, “We have this treasure laid in vessels.” I’m a piece, something in me looks like something in God, that looks like nobody else. So He loves that piece of me because that’s a part of Him. That’s an original breath He breathed into me. So as I lay there, He said this to me, “Larry, I have to ask you a question.” And He said, “If you found out tomorrow from the doctor you had a terminal disease, how would you live the rest of your life?” And I knew it was a hard question. And I began to weep, and as I did, I began to say, “Lord, I would love people more. I would encourage people more. I would tell my wife I love her more. I would tell my office, have I told you lately that I love you. I would have a softer heart, I would forgive, I would not live with a closed fist, but with an open fist.” And when I got through this long list, I said, “I would hold babies.” And I even said this, “I would dance more.” I don’t know why I said it. But I would dance with my wife. It seemed like the simple things were the most endearing things to God. And He said to me in this strong voice, “Larry, I want you to live the rest of your life like you’re terminal tomorrow.” And I realized we all are terminal. We just don’t know when.
SID: Tell me that second experience.
LARRY: The second one after that, sometime after that, the Lord visited me again at the left side of me. And He said this to me, which was a shocker to me, “Larry, you’re going to be seeing me pretty soon.” And I’m thinking, shoot, you know.
SID: What would you think?
LARRY: Like now?
SID: My goodness.
LARRY: And He said, “You’re going to be seeing me pretty soon and I want to ask something of you, a favor of you.” And He said, “I want you to live a zero regret lifestyle.” And what He meant by that, He said, “When you come to see me I want you to come with no regrets because I don’t want to have to wipe tears away from your eyes.” And I thought, in the scripture it says, “And the lambs that were taken by the river and he shall walk with tears of Heaven.” And I realized the tears of Heaven are regrets for not being what God made us to be and become. And this is what He said to me. I said, “What do you mean by that, Lord?” He said, “I want you to maximize every inch of creative space and talents I put in your life. I want you to forgive everybody that’s hurt you. I want you to live your life with zero regrets. When you come to see me you can smile, have no tears, and I can say, ‘well done, good and faithful servant.'”
SID: You made a statement to me.
SID: This is so profound and so wonderful that the Lord told you He wanted your heart.
LARRY: Gifts are given. Character is grown in the soul of adversity. He said, “When you come to see me, you can’t bring your gift with you because you need a word of knowledge up here. I’m here. Can’t bring healing with you, can’t bring preaching. The best preacher is in Heaven. You can’t bring your apostleship. Only thing you can bring in Heaven is your heart and some of your talent,” because I’m planning on playing guitar with David when I get there. So He said, “You can bring your heart,” He said, “because what, you’ve lived in a world where your gift is bigger than your heart, and in Heaven the heart is bigger than the gift.”
SID: I’ll tell you what. Hold that thought. I want to find out what God has shown Larry will shortly come to the United States, Israel and Russia. We’ll be right back.
Sid: My guest is LaDonna Taylor and LaDonna we found out that you were raised in a Christian home; you had a grandmother that would pray for dead people that would come back to life. Just as a toddler you would have visions of Jesus and worship Him for hours; and at age 12 you heard the audible voice of God, what did He say?
LaDonna: He called my name; I thought that there was a man standing back of the church; I actually thought it was my father my natural father. So I turned around and as soon as I saw that the church was empty I knew that the voice of God had just called my name.
Sid: And then shortly thereafter you started playing the violin; what were the circumstances; how did you happen to pick the violin?
LaDonna: At that time I was already advanced playing the piano; I studied hours a day playing the piano and I had been asked to be the pianist for the school orchestra. I came in and was playing the piano for the school orchestra and when I saw the violins I fell in love. I asked the orchestra director if he would let me take one home. I came back in one week I was first chair in that orchestra. There was such a love for the violin.
Sid: Now wait a second I know a little bit about the violin in one week you were first chair, that’s sounds almost supernatural!
LaDonna: Well, my mother didn’t think it was supernatural she wanted me to take that violin back to school and leave it there but my dad came in the room and said “Oh, Momma let her keep it look how she loves it.
Sid: And look how this was part of your destiny, and then you were a guest on Messianic Vision Radio and It’s Supernatural Television and we had a wonderful time. And you had told me that you had been very sick, this was 2012, the hospital made a mistake what happened?
LaDonna: I was having surgery it should have been a one night stay and the doctor cut me in the wrong place. As a result of that cut I needed 9 surgeries in less than 90 days. When I was interviewed in 2012 on It’s Supernatural I had had 4 of those 9 surgeries.
Sid: Now you certainly did not know that you needed 5 more surgeries or did you while you were being interviewed?
LaDonna: Yeah, I thought I needed one more.
Sid: Hmm and for what I understand it wasn’t that easy for you to even do the interviews when we did the television show.
LaDonna: I was taking antibiotics, I was wearing a tube in my back that was draining my kidney when I did the show, but something inside of me knew I had to do that show. And we did it didn’t we?
Sid: And well not only did you have to do the show for all the people that you blessed throughout the world but it was life critical for you. So you have these 9 surgeries in 90 days and it doesn’t go as well as the doctors expected. Describe to me what the prognosis was for you.
LaDonna: At the end of the 5 surgeries my colon had died, it had quit functioning.
Sid: Now what happens when someone doesn’t have a colon; it sounds to me like you can’t live.
LaDonna: You can’t live very long. My stomach became protruded and I began to starve to death.
LaDonna: My abdomen was so painful because my colon was dying and it was twisting and causing my colon to have spasms so I became… I was very very addicted to high power pain medicine. They were giving me a Delotta every 2 to 4 hours. That’s a form of morphine.
Sid: So I would imagine you lost a lot of weight.
LaDonna: I was down to 89 pounds.
Sid: Eighty-nine and how tall are you?
LaDonna: I’m 5’ 2”.
Sid: Okay, but still 89 pounds, you were just skin and bones.
Sid: So you must have felt you were dying or what did you feel; what’s going on inside of LaDonna Taylor?
LaDonna: I felt I was dying. I became confused because of the pain medicine. I couldn’t comprehend from all the people that I had prayed for and seen receive miracles and I knew the truth of healing in the word of God and I’m dying. The other issue was the pain medicine was clouding my thinking. But thank God that my relationship with Christ was strong because when it comes to when everything goes wrong in this world there’s one thing that you’ve got left and it is your relationship with Him. Thank God I had that to hold on to.
Sid: Now in the hospital listening to your own music was very critical; tell me about the song “Leaning on the Everlasting Arms of Jesus.”
LaDonna: When I started hearing that song I realized that in my suffering I was learning to lean on the Lord that I loved so much.
Sid: But wait a second, you knew Him all of these years; you had your crisis situations. I mean at that time you were 65 is that correct?
LaDonna: That’s correct.
Sid: I mean you’re down to 89 pounds which is awful, you’re dying which is awful but why did you need encouragement to hold on. I’m reminded of this little toddler that’s just seeing visions of Jesus and worshiping and just seeing people raised form the dead. But I guess the devil through a lot of his high power demons against you.
LaDonna: Did He ever, I felt evil in the room and a lady that didn’t know me was sitting in my hospital room. She was a member of a church that I had just connected with and she said “LaDonna, didn’t I read somewhere that when people play your music people are healed? Why don’t we bring your music in this hospital and play it for you,” and she did.
Sid: I want to hear a song that made a profound difference in your healing called “Leaning on the Everlasting Arms of Jesus.” Music Excerpt.
Sid: My guest is a teacher’s teacher; he has a mantle from God. This man has been called to teach and many of you are familiar with his bestselling book “The Bait of Satan” but he’s had many bestselling books. As a matter of fact 20,000 churches or more in North America use his teaching materials. But I have to tell you the most fascinating subject to me to understand is who is the Holy Spirit? And I believe that John is going to introduce you to a classic teaching but before we do that you were talking on yesterday’s broadcast about a Holy Spirit, God visitation in Malaysia tell me about it.
John: Yes this does relate to the Holy Spirit so powerfully. While I was teaching in Malaysia woman were down front the auditorium was jammed packed, a huge auditorium. The Spirit of God came in and it was like Daddy… these women were like laughing hysterically, now this was back in the mid 90’s. I’d never really seen this in Asia and I realized that God was just loving on his daughters. Well, all of a sudden after 5 minutes lifted and the Lord said “I’m coming in differently.” And all of a sudden the atmosphere changed and this awesome, mighty, wonderfully terrifying presence comes in. And all of a sudden these women stop laughing and immediately they’re screaming like they’re on fire; now it wasn’t demonic. Now remember I was walking back and forth going “Oh my God! Oh my God!” because that presence was so amazing I knew irreverence wouldn’t be tolerated in that presence because the King came in, Daddy didn’t come in if that makes sense. And I remember I kept walking back and forth and I remember that out of mouth came these words “This is the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord.” And my mind went “That’s it!” Jesus the Bible says in Isaiah 11 “The Spirit of… the Lord will be upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and knowledge, counsel, and the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord.” It goes on to say and His delight was in the fear of the Lord.” And I realized that this is one of the manifestations of the Spirit. And I remember right after that meeting it was the largest Bible school in the nation and there was a couple from the nation of India that were in that Bible school and the woman said to me “I feel so clean inside” and I said “I do too!” Well the next morning in my hotel in Malaysia I was praying and God said to me “Read Psalm 19.” I started reading Psalm 19 and I got the verse that says “The fear of the Lord is clean and enduring forever.” I remembered what she said “I feel so clean,” and so did her husband. I thought “The fear of the Lord is clean and it endures forever.” The Lord spoke to me Sid and the Lord said this, “Lucifer led worship before My throne, he didn’t fear Me, he didn’t endure forever.” He said “A third of the angels worshiped around the throne, they didn’t fear Me; they didn’t endure forever.” Adam and Eve walked in the presence of My glory in the Garden of Eden, they didn’t fear, they didn’t endure in the Garden forever. And He said “Every created being that is around my throne forever will be tested in not only the love of God but in the holy fear of God. And it was like a marker in my life and I realized right then that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. People ask me constantly “Where do these insights and revelations come from in these books?” And I can say it’s from the fear of the Lord that opens up the door to open and expand upon His word.
Sid: Well that begs a question “If you were like most Christians in north America that I know and you high fived God all the time and you acted as if you were a cheer leader and you say “Yeah God!” do you think that you’d be where you are right now?
John: No I don’t I honestly don’t I looked at… there is… you know Sid and you are going to be able to correct me; when they brought the children out of Egypt God said “The whole reason I brought you out was to bring you to Myself.” Moses goes up in the mountain Aaron was invited up and ends up back with the people because he was more comfortable in the presence of people than in the presence of God. Aaron ends up building a calf, he forms it with an engraving tool. And they look at the calf and say “Behold Israel Elohim.” Now Elohim is found about 2,250 times in the Old Testament. About 250 times it’s a false God; 2000 times God Almighty. Elohim is the word used for God all through Genesis chapter one; I think it’s like 30 some occurrences. So you always have to read it in context. But then Aaron makes a statement about that calf “Tomorrow is a feast the Lord.” That word Lord that he uses there is Jehovah or Yahweh. That is the sacred name of God and the Hebrews wouldn’t even write the vowel. And so Aaron looks right at that calf and says “There is Yahweh who delivered us out of Egypt.” So he doesn’t deny that God delivered him out of Egypt; he doesn’t deny that God saved them; he doesn’t deny that He brought them through the water and fed them. He just has changed his image to now it’s Jehovah who’s going to give me what I want. Well when you look at Roman’s chapter 1 Paul says “In the last day people are going to change the image of God into an image of man or four footed beast.” Now we don’t worship four footed beasts in our society we worship human beings, mankind okay. So because you see the Egyptians worshiped four footed beasts; they had statues of calves all over the place so they were accustomed to that. But my question is “Are we serving the real Jesus at the right hand of the Father, or have we created an image of Jesus that will give me what I want; I can high five Him treat Him like “Hey Baby, what’s going on Jesus” and really not be the real Jesus but the one that we’ve made in an image that will give us whatever we want.
Sid: I am almost wondering the scripture comes to my mind John is “The love of most will grow cold in the last days.” Maybe it’s because of the misunderstood image of God.
John: Well let’s talk about that scripture “The love of many,” and the Greek word there many does mean most, means majority is what it means; “Will grow cold.” Well what causes it to grow cold is because lawlessness will abound.” What is lawlessness? Lawlessness is when we’re not submitted to the authority of God. So what happens is we pull ourselves out from His authority by creating a Jesus that will give me what I want so therefore he’s really not the Jesus of the right hand of the Father we have conveniently slipped out from under His authority but we still acknowledge He saved me, He died on the cross but is He the real Jesus at the right hand of the Father. That’s what we have to ask.
Sid: And that’s an honest fair question that each person has to ask themselves. John tell me in your words who is the Holy Spirit to you?
John: Well the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead and He is my very closes friend on earth. I never would be talking to you on this program had it not been for the Holy Spirit. One of the things that deeply concerns me is that if you say Holy Spirit to a person they immediately want to talk about His manifestations, His gifts or power rather than talking about Him as a person. I personally am much more interested in knowing Him as a person before I know His power and manifestation. It’s kind of like this “If I meet a woman and I realize that this woman she is very very well known in the community; let’s say I’m a single man she is very wealthy and I want to marry her because I’ll get her wealth, I’ll get the popularity, I’ll get the power in the community to get things done rather than coming to know her first as a person. And so I think many have gotten their relationship with the Holy Spirit backwards. They’ll study out His manifestations, they’ll study out His gifts, they’ll talk about His power; talk about His manifestations which are all important, don’t get me wrong but they don’t first of all seek Him as a person.
Sid: Now you teach a lot about a word called communion is that what you’re talking about now?
John: Yeah, the word communion when I was a Catholic boy to me it was taking those wafers and sneaking the wine as an altar boy after the service. But that was not what communion means. The Greek word for Communion is the Greek word koinonia and it has many definitions but the major ones I highlight in the book are partnership and fellowship and intimacy. Now fellowship is interacting, it’s companionship. Sid can you imagine if you pick me up at the airport when I fly into do the television programs with you. Let’s say that you pick me up at Charlotte Airport and we got a 20 minute drive. I don’t way one word to you and you don’t say one word to me. Not “Hello” not “Good Morning;” not how’s your family; thank you for coming; nothing. That whole…we can’t even imagine that. I mean for people that are listening to us can you imagine carpooling with your neighbor and you drive 20 minutes to downtown Charlotte let’s say and you don’t say one word to them when they get into the car. Yet how many times do we drive 20 minutes and not say anything to the Holy Spirit?
Sid: Well I’ll tell you what we’re out of time right now. John, it’s a new book, new teachings, but what kind of feedback are you getting on your book “The Holy Spirit” and your teaching DVD’s and CDs?
John: You know what’s thrilling me; this is the greatest feedback even pastors have said this to me “My whole relationship with the Holy Spirit has changed my Christian life has become much more exciting and so much more full.”
Sid: What about people that are kind of opposed to the gifts of the Spirit for today, have any of those read your book and any feedback?
John: You know I was prepared for it but interesting enough because in the book I talk about Him as a person and I walk through and there’s tons of scriptures laid out in order in this book. I think what happened is a lot of them have seen Him as a person and it open’s them more up to His gifts and manifestation. And I also show because most people their reason for not knowing His manifestations today is they say that which is perfect has come.
Sid: Well we’ll pick up there on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: Well I found out on yesterday’s broadcast that my friend James Goll who I’m interviewing this week had cancer. He had non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma cancer and was the prognosis fatal with this cancer from a medical viewpoint James?
James: Yeah they actually told me at the very beginning they said “No one has ever lived past 10 years is what they told me.” And I looked him straight in the eye and I said “You don’t know who you’re talking to.”
James: I told them right then that I’m not going to be the first and said “We’re going to break that and I have.”
Sid: And you know the interesting thing is that it came back 3 times. We found out that Oral Roberts prayed for you and that it’s never going to come back again. And how many years have it been?
James: It’s been at least 4 ½.
Sid: Okay, were you the last person Oral prayed for or saw?
James: I think so; I believe so it was in September in his home in Orange County and then he did go to be with the Lord early December.
Sid: Now of course when you had it the first time a friend of mine prayed for you and you had quite an encounter with the Lord. His name is Suprisa and he probably has prayed for more dead people that have come back to life than anyone that I have ever heard of, he’s African. Tell me what happened.
James: Yeah, it’s really quite amazing there’s always these little parables seems to be. Some months ahead of time the Holy Spirit spoke to me and He said “I want you to keep October in that particular year; I want you to keep it free I have a surprise” that’s what He said. “I have a surprise coming your way.” And I went oh, what is that? He didn’t tell me what it was; so I kept my October a little more fluid in my calendar so often I travel and it get’s filled up. So I kept October relatively free, and so Pastor Supraza but he also goes by Surprise. So he comes here to Nashville, Tennessee to minister.
Sid: And so that’s of course is your Surprise; but go ahead.
James: Yeah, yeah I know it was amazing. The Holy Spirit said ahead a time, I have a surprise for you.
Sid: How many people are named Surprise, not too many.
James: No, I mean really, give me a break; I mean only the Holy Spirit can do that and it was a play on words. And so He said, “I have a Surprise for you, so Supraza comes to Nashville that October” exactly the way the Lord said. And so I have a special time with him and he’s praying for me and when he does he enters into my actual body. He doesn’t only come on me and into my body. So as that’s happening I am like thrown into or I’m moved upon in such a manner that an open vision occurs. And this wow this heat was riveting in my body Jesus appears in a vision to me and He is standing like Revelation chapter 1 says “He had eyes the flames of fire.” And it talks about “His feet are burnished like with fire.” Well He describes Himself to me as the man of fire and as this heat fire is moving through my body the bloodstream it would stop and it would rest over my body and then it would move on. I actually started perspiring when this happened, and then Jesus in this open vision speaks to me and starts telling me some of the most amazing things I have ever heard. He said “With every wound I received I obtained a special of healing for My people.” So He starts taking me to these different wounds and He talks to me about how He was pierced through and that He obtained healing of the heart for every person. He takes me to the piercings of His hands and this was very fascinating and He said to me “Did you know that most diseases are transferred by the hands,” in other words like germs, things of this nature, bacteria and germs. And He said “I obtained healing so that every bacteria and every germ would be conquered.” He takes me to the crown of thorns on His head and He said to me “I obtained through this wounding the healing of every mental illness known to mankind.” He turns to His back and I see the riveting of the 39 lashes upon His back and it was almost devastating appearing looking at this. Then every one of these stripes with His wounds that Jesus’ back was lacerated there were names that were written in all of these 39 stripes. And I remembered that there was like tuberculosis and leukemia and many different things were named in these stripes of Jesus. It was absolutely incredible, He takes me to His feet where He was pierced and said “I obtained healing for cripples through the wounds that I received. And that heat riveted through my body and I actually was cleansed and had a healing that occurred right at that time. I had actually doing radiation treatments and I went back to the doctor at that time, and I said “I’m healed, I know I’m healed.” And I was actually able to stop the radiation treatments right at that time didn’t even finish them. Because they did tests and it showed that the cancer that it was not active at that point.
Sid: With this information that you know that this is revelation, only God could have told you this and He did. How do we go from intellectually understanding and we all understood what you said to having it manifest in our bodies?
James: Well that’s a good one you know because for all of us it’s a walk of faith and there’s a walk of study let yourself approved. You know the scriptures that you’re a workman unto God and all of that. And so decreeing the things is really important.
Sid: Give me an example, how would you decree a thing as a matter of fact why don’t you decree something over people with cancer right now.
James: Great and you know what you have received you have authority to give away so I agree. So right now in the Name of the Lord of Host, in the Name of Jesus that One Name that is above every Name I release and decree every tumor in peoples bodies shall shrink in the Name of Jesus. And the fire of the Lord will come you even now and it’ll bring supernatural cleansing to toxins and to diseases that are in your body. So right now what I see, is I see tumors, and I command tumors to dry up; I command you to breakup, I command you to dissolve and never return again, in Jesus Name. The Book of Job says “You will decree a thing and it will be established.” And so as I receive I declare and the Holy Spirit gave me a dream and He said “I am sending forth something greater than radiation treatments; I’m sending forth Holy Spirit treatments to heal people of cancer. So I speak Holy Spirit fire treatments upon people right now; any form of cancer; so I speak Holy Spirit treatments to come upon you and to drive the cancer out in Jesus Name.
Sid: Boy, I can feel the presence, in fact even before you prayed I felt the special presence of God and almost said James, what’s going on your the prophet but something was going on even before you prayed. And I believe that we’re going to get reports from all over the world that heard that prayer that are going to be set free. And as a matter of fact you want to go on our web page if you know someone with cancer and have them listen to this particular radio show. Now James, I am fascinated by how many supernatural experiences you’ve had. You operate in all of the gifts of the Spirit, but why in your book did you not just talk about all of these amazing experiences and you primarily stuck line upon line for how to live a supernatural life from the Bible? Why did you take that approach, what was your reason?
James: One of the things that I’m really burdened about today is that in the earlier Charismatic Movement, which you and I were both a part of was a teaching movement. In today’s wonderful supernatural culture that exist the teaching element is a little weaker today. So I’m finding the need to ground people in the word of God. Because, here’s the deal we need to solid in the words, and then when the devil comes around he can’t steal what God has given because then we can declare like Jesus said “It is written, man does not live by bead alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.” We live by the ever proceeding word that comes forth from the mouth of God. So this wonderful new book that Bill Johnson wrote the forward for “Living a Supernatural Life” it has 200 scripture references in it because I want us to be grounded, grounded, grounded; have tools that are effective weapons of warfare and then we got to learn to declare the word, speak the word, pray the word, declare the word. And so I’ve done this in this manner so that I want you out there; I want you to have tools in your hands; I want you to be encouraged.
SID: I am absolutely amazed at the statistics of people that are in hopeless situations, whether it has to do with their employment, whether it has to do with their family, whether it has to do with their health, whether it has to do with just past things that they’ve been stuffed down and it’s just popping up now. It’s a spirit. Dutch, tell me some of those statistics of hopelessness.
DUTCH: You know, I was shocked, too, Sid. I found these things staggering. The divorce rate in the last 30 years has risen 300 percent, two and half million people every year, 50 percent of first time marriages, 60 percent of remarriages. When they try it again, it still doesn’t work. The pressures are overwhelming, a million children a year affected by new divorces. Fatherless homes, this was staggering to me, 63 percent of youth suicides are directly connected to being raised in a fatherless home. Ninety percent of runaway homeless children and 85 percent of youths in prison because they don’t have a father. People are looking for that security and hope. Nineteen million adults have a depressive disorder. It is the leading cause of disability in America, depression. The youth suicide rate has tripled in the last 35 years. It is the third leading, the third leading cause of death among young people in America is suicide. Twenty-five percent of high schoolers seriously consider suicide every year, a fourth of them. Psychiatric admissions account for 25 percent, a fourth, of all hospital admissions, suicide, depression, 25 percent. Even our spiritual leaders are not immune from this. Seventy percent of pastors said they constantly fight depression. Eighty percent of adult children of pastors seek professional help for depression. Fifty percent of pastors said they would leave the ministry if they could, but they don’t know how they would survive.
SID: That is—
DUTCH: Staggering isn’t it?
SID: Everything coming out of your mouth, it shows you how what critical times we’re living in.
DUTCH: It’s amazing.
SID: What does the Bible say about a term called “hope deferred”?
DUTCH: Hope deferred, it say,s makes the heart sick. If you think about what happens with physical heart disease, you lose your energy, you get tired. Eventually you’ll die. You can’t run. That’s what happens when hope deferred sets in. It doesn’t just affect your mind. It affects your body. You know, serious depression they’re now saying is the equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. It takes a toll on your physical heart, but then again, your emotional heart, it affects. You can’t dream. You don’t eat. You don’t run the race of life. You quit looking at the future with hope. You can’t have faith. Hope deferred is the common cold of the soul. You can’t go through life without experiencing setbacks. You’re going to be hit with something: loss of a loved one, a disease, you lose your job, your marriage.
SID: What are stages, briefly, of hope deferred? And I believe you’re going to recognize you’re actually in some of these stages.
DUTCH: Well the first stage is simply discouragement. You know, you just get slammed by this and discouragement sets in. If you don’t deal with that, the next phase you come to is confusion. You just get disoriented. How did this happen? What do I do? What do I latch on to now for hope? And then of course, if that doesn’t stop, unbelief sets in. Now you’re in trouble because your trust is wavering and your connection with the Lord begins to waver. The next step if that isn’t checked is disillusionment. That’s what happened to me in my life. I became disillusioned. I don’t know if I believe in this God. I don’t know what I believe any more. I just don’t know. And then of course, the real killer, bitterness sets in. Once you become bitter, you just, you’re just a target for the enemy. He just begins to steal your health, he steals your joy and in the last phase, and I certain came into this, is simply cynicism. You just don’t believe anything anymore. That’s where I was. People talked to me about God. I don’t want to hear it. I don’t believe this stuff anymore. Completely cynical, hopeless, cynical.
SID: Tell me about how your brother observed a heart surgery. Tell me what he found out.
DUTCH: This is the most amazing story I think I’ve ever heard. He was actually allowed to go into the operating room and stand at the head of the patient, actually three of them. He had a heart surgeon in his congregation and he watched them over the person, take the heart, work on it, and they actually would sometimes disconnect it from the arteries, take it out, work on it and hook the person up to a machine that would do the work of the heart. When they were finished, they would reconnect everything, they had to get the heart beating again. And everything worked fine until the last patient. And he didn’t know exactly what was happening, but he could tell they’re trying to get this heart to beat. And tension, you could feel the tension start to come into the operating room. Finally, he realized they can’t get this heart beating. And in desperation when they exhausted all of their methods, the lead surgeon leaned down to this obviously unconscious person, whispered in her ear and said, “Ma’am, I need your help. We can’t get your heart to beat. Please tell your heart to beat again.”
SID: This is an unconscious person.
DUTCH: Obviously. Can’t hear naturally. Instantly, the heart began boom-boom, boom-boom. And the surgeon, all the people around the table looked up at each other. He looked at them and just kind of went, and they went on with the surgery, and he of course realized, that’s what we have to do with our emotions, with our spiritual heart.
SID: Tell me what God has shown you based on that story and the power of choice.
DUTCH: Oh you know, that’s where it all starts. God said to me, “Listen son, I know it’s not your fault that you are in this condition. You didn’t know. You didn’t know how to deal with this. I’m not angry with you that you turned to these things. But it will be your decision if you remain this way because I’m here to heal you.” And I had to activate my will and say, I’m going to choose to live again. I’m going to choose to dream again. I’m going to choose to not allow this to define me. I’m going to let God define who I am. Alcohol is not who I am. Depression is not who I am. Anger is not who I am. And I made a choice. Now I wasn’t in denial because when we make a choice God’s life, God’s power, God’s energy is activated in us and all He needs is us to make that choice, and His power comes along and gives us the ability to do it. It’s not denial. It’s denying the right of that circumstance to control my life through to believe God can turn things around for me.
SID: It’s the supernatural belief in the supernatural God. It’s not natural. And when we come back, we’re going to talk about the third great awakening, and Dutch has literally seen it, and he’s going to describe what he saw, and it’s starting right now.
SID: Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. You know, some 40 years ago, as a brand new Jewish believer in the Messiah, I was exposed to a woman by the name of Kathryn Kuhlman. And I have to tell you, the miracles I saw there I haven’t seen to that degree since. But all the way in Australia God raised up another Kathryn that is moving in those same miracles. But here’s the difference. She’s not only moving in these miracles, she’s teaching everyone she can to move in the same miracles. Do you want to? Me, too. So Kathrine walks by people and they get healed. I mean, this is outrageous what’s going with her. I have found out some of the things she does that causes God to smile on her, and that’s what’s happening. Tell me about the woman that you were praying for that walks up there, you’re going to pray for hearing and you notice she has no ear. Tell me about her.
KATHERINE: Well I had a word of knowledge in a meeting here in the U.S. of a lady that I said, “There’s someone here that needs their hearing restored.” And we’ve seen many deaf ears open and I expected someone with a deaf ear to come forward. But the lady who came forward had no ear. It had been cut off, the eardrum had been removed because of a cancerous tumor. And she came forward all with her face lit up and faith just knowing God was touching her.
SID: I want you to get this straight. This is no ear, no eardrum and she’s coming forward to restore her hearing. I just want to make sure you got that. Go ahead.
KATHERINE: Well I didn’t quite know what to think. I thought well perhaps God might restore her hearing, grow an eardrum overnight. That was about the level I thought my faith was at. And sometimes when I’m with the power of God my right hand will start tremble. And I went to go lay my hand on her, and the Lord said, “Put your left hand on her.” And I thought, oh Lord, I need all the help I can get. But I did and then as I prayed for her, the Lord just whispered to me, He said, “Ask her if she can hear.” And she swung her head around and said, “Yes!” And I said, “Really?” It was so extraordinary. And you know, the Glory just fell. So many miracles happened that night. We saw cataracts disappear in front of our eyes. People with crippled fingers had their fingers straightened out. You know, God, He is more willing to do miracles than we have faith to see it happen.
SID: And you know what’s so wonderful? Here he goes to Australia, he puts his finger on a woman abused as a child, all sorts of fears in their life, and traumas. So she watches TV, she sees movies and she knows that Hollywood says you get married to the right man and everything works out perfect. That’s what Hollywood says. However, we know better than Hollywood does, because Katherine had the same fears even after she married her Prince Charming. Her fears now were even compounded. She was afraid he was going to die. So one day, she asked God to do three things. Tell me the three things.
KATHERINE: I was driving in the car on the way to a meeting and I thought, I’ll talk to the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit, the Bible tells me, he’s my teacher and my helper. So I thought, well I’m going to try this. And I said, “Well Holy Spirit, could you teach me about the falling down thing.” I had seen people fall down under the power of God in the meetings and I thought, I didn’t know whether they just fell down out of courtesy or whether they were pushed. But if it was the power of God I genuinely wanted to know. So I believe in asking for help. God is so good at helping us. So I asked Him, could you teach me about that. And I said, “And I have this little ganglion cyst on my wrist. Would you heal me of that?” I said. “And would you take away the fear that I have that my husband would die?” I was just a new bride and I just got this man to sign a piece of paper to say he was going to love me until he died. And then you know, coming from a background of insecurity and abandonment issues, I was so worried that now the next thing this one that finally has [committed] to love me might die. And so I said, “Set me free from this fear.” I didn’t realize it was the tip of a huge iceberg. But it was an invitation, an invitation for the Holy Spirit to come and do incredible work.
SID: What happened?
KATHERINE: Well I went to the meeting that night and they invited forward people for prayer, and I just sort of slipped in on the end. And I lifted my hands, and the preacher was right at the other end, and bang, the power of the Holy Spirit touched me. I was knocked to the floor, no catchers, and I trembled under the power of God.
SID: He didn’t even push you down.
KATHERINE: He didn’t even come and pray for me. Eventually, he came to me and he said, “Pick her up.” And then he said, “Oppression go.” I was on the floor again. And right during that time, I saw the face of Jesus right in front of me. He said, “Katherine, I’m setting you free from everything.” And you know, God so delivered me and set me free.
SID: So what happened to the cyst?
KATHERINE: Well I didn’t, I wasn’t even thinking about the cyst because that was such an incredible encounter with God. But when I got home, it was gone. And the scripture says, “I sought the Lord and He heard me, and delivered me from all my fears.” And that’s what He did that night. So sovereignly, He let love come in and replaced my fears.
SID: So then a few days later, you got some more deliverance.
KATHERINE: Well you know, I really believe that it’s so important that we continually present our need to God. And I just went forward on another altar call. It was a message about shame. I thought, oh that applies to me. So I went forward. And as I was just waiting for people to come and pray, a few people came past and prayed, the Holy Spirit said, “Just stay here.” So I kept staying there and he began to show me a vision. And the first part of the vision, I saw myself as a child with my head on the Father’s lap, and he’s stroking my hair like this. And I never had someone do that for me. And then the next vision, I saw myself as a little girl with this really ugly face. And then I saw that face just peel off like a mask and float away. And then I saw this picture of this beautiful woman walking in the heavens and she was dressed in the most beautiful robes. Really the only way I could describe her was she clothed in dignity. And as I was looking at this vision, the Lord said, from behind me I heard Him say, “That’s you.” And I fell on the floor again. And you know, when I got up, God had done in me what no psychiatrist could ever have done. He restored my dignity. He restored my identity and He showed me that I was His beloved daughter, that He would be there to meet all my needs for love, affection. And yeah, He truly is my best friend.
SID: When we come back, I believe that miracles are going to erupt of a magnitude you have never seen before. Don’t you dare go away.
Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah, his name is Keith Clark I’m speaking to him at his office in Tampa, Florida where he’s Prayer Director for Set Free Ministries. We’re making available the book of the leader of set free ministries Molly D’Andrea. It’s called “Set Free” true accounts of those that have been liberated from pornography, sexual addiction, masturbation, rape, molestation, incest, lesbianism, and homosexuality. Unfortunately this problem is not getting less, it’s getting more. Unfortunately we find this in the church because people don’t know how to be set free. This book will tell you:
- Many testimonies of people that were set free to give you encouragement.
- That the problem is not you, that it’s a spiritual entity that it really isn’t you it isn’t the person that God created, there is a hope there is a way to be set free and to stay free….
I have on the telephone Keith Clark and we found out that Keith was a drag queen, he was a male prostitute. He was a practicing homosexual, he got into drugs but God when he overdosed revealed Himself to him and said that “He was saved for a purpose.” And he came back to consciousness from a coma. What were the first words that you said when you came out of a coma?
Keith: Jesus, Jesus, Jesus those were the first 3 words that I spoke when I came out of that coma.
Sid: And then your ex-step mother was involved in the deliverance and getting you set free, tell me about that.
Keith: Well a couple of years later from that point like I told you I was on the streets selling myself because I didn’t have people to disciple me or people to help me out. So I did lapse back into my homosexuality, I did lapse back into the sin. And because I didn’t know how to be set free. I was on the corner praying and begging for God to help me and my sister came and picked me up on the street corner and asked me if I wanted to go to my stepmother’s house, Lynn’s house, to be with her because she wanted to go over for prayer. And I said “Sure, I’ll go with you and I’ll support you Debbie.” And we went to her house and Lynn did counsel with her but then she came in and said “Keith you’re not here for Debbie you’re here for yourself and God wants you to be here and to stay here. At that point and time I had such a drug addiction that my veins in my body had collapsed. I shot up in places that we won’t even mention, and I thought “Well this is a place to hide out. I wasn’t going to buy the God’s stuff because I had tried the God’s stuff. I had also tried people tell me that they would help me and then turn on me and I knew that that was… I just thought that that was no way even after the experience I’d had with the coma and stuff. Because I couldn’t get out of my mind that I couldn’t really be set free. Well needless to say for lack of time I’ll just skip over and say that Lynn ministered with me for 6 months nonstop and I read the word of God. I read Psalms the 10 chapters of Psalms for 3 months every night I read those Psalms. I read and I prayed and I prayed and sought God. After being with Lynn for just 2 nights I woke up after she prayed deliverance over me that the drug addiction totally gone, the veins in my body totally healed. God did such a miraculous thing. I had to get rid of everything that had to do with that lifestyle. And Lynn instructed me on that. The next day a guy showed up with everything I needed from underclothes all the way to shaving equipment and didn’t know why but he just felt led by God to bring this box of stuff and it was everything I needed. The following night a woman showed up at the door who was the same woman who was praying for me when I was in the hospital and interceding with me that night. She spoke with the same British accent as the angel spoke. I fell on my knees because right then I knew that God is real and that there was a chance for me. I proceeded to study the word of the Living God and to feed upon the word and eat it day and night. I became a new creature in Christ.
Sid: How long have you been free Keith?
Keith: I’ve been free for oh my at least 25 years.
Sid: Now you’ve devoted your life to helping others with similar problems and any sexual problems to be set free. Out of curiosity, tell me the most dramatic case you know of someone you were involved in getting set free.
Keith: Well after I got set free God had us open a house, and I literally went to the same place and the same corner where I stood and went to minister to people and we’d take them off of the corner and bring them to this house.
Sid: Where you were a male prostitute?
Keith: Yes, in Tampa Florida and we help these people. One guy that we did pick up he was so bad that he had bugs in his hair. He had been on the streets for so long and had been prostituting himself so long that it’s just indescribable. We took him, picked him up. I told him I’d give him $20 if he would just give me 15 minutes of his time I didn’t want to have sex with him but I just wanted to talk to him about my lover that I had had found. And I proceeded to tell him about Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God and tell him how much of a lover he was and could be to him and set him free. Well after a series of deliverance sessions and stuff… this man has such demonic spirits that he literally could read the word of God and backwards and then forwards, he could read one verse and then tell me that verse and know it’s a photographic memory and mind. And he just howled at the moon, I mean this guy needed deliverance so badly. That’s how God taught me how to pray for deliverance for people with working with this man. He was totally delivered, totally set free. He is now living a wonderful life with his wife and has 3 children, has never ever ever gone back into any kind of sexual perversion that I’m aware of. And would tell you today if you were talking to him that he has definitely been set free.
Sid: Keith I have to ask you a difficult question; are you just controlling your desire to be a woman, your desire for homosexuality or are you really free?
Keith: I’ve been asked that question by several men and several woman and if you could only see and know the before and after that question would not have to be asked. But to answer that question I can tell you definitely without a doubt, without any kind of hesitation that Jesus Christ has totally and completely set me free from homosexuality and drug addictions. Am I perfect, have arrived to the perfect state of mind, perfect state of man that the Bible would say like Jesus Christ. No, probably not before I stand before our Father. But I can tell you this that there is no temptation, there is no sexual addictions drawing us to any kind of man. And I’m very blessed and very pleased with my manhood and my identity in Christ.
Sid: You said that the best way to be set free and to stay free has to do with staying in the word, explain that.
Keith: Well we hear a lot today about formulas, we hear a lot about “You should do this, you should do that, but this is this, and this is that.” Trust me, as Paul said “I’m the chief among sinners” I can say I’m a chief among formulas. I’ve tried formulas left and right, backwards and forwards trying to be set free from homosexuality to try to be set free from this thing that plagued by mind. Because afterwards the mind has to be renewed after the deliverance. I only know of one way to be set free and it’s not a formula it’s a relationship with Jesus Christ. Formulas are good for the mind, they’re good to teach the mind, they’re good to renew the mind. The word of God is the best formula that anybody could ever have or do. That’s why I encourage reading the word, but relationship is a heart matter and that’s where. If you can get your relationship with Father right, then He will write the word of the Living God upon your heart and upon your mind and He will cause you to keep it.
Sid: Is there anyone anywhere with these kind of addictions if they want to be set free can be?
Keith: Oh yes, anyone anywhere can be set free from this at any time that they call out on the Lord Jesus.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. So what’s the deal, are you red hot, are you lukewarm, or are you cold? Well you know lukewarm is worse than cold, when your cold you know your cold, when you’re lukewarm your deceived. Guess what, if your lukewarm Jesus says and this is in the Greek, in the Book of Revelation the word of God says “If you’re lukewarm I will vomit you out of my mouth.” Listen, this is the wrap up. This is time that all of the prophets and all of the wonderful men and woman of old whose shoulders we’re standing on that we’ve been waiting for. It’s the time of the great harvest and it’s the time to be free. Now there’s many people that I’m speaking to right now that are not free in one or more areas of their life. There’s a specific area that I want to deal with this week, it has to do with eating disorders such as anorexia, bulimia, binge eating, and gluttony. You know gluttony is the acceptable Christian sin but sin is sin. And I have on the telephone Nancy Alcorn. I’m speaking to her at her office in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m interviewing her on her new book titled “Mercy for Eating Disorders – True stories of Hope and Real Answers for Healing and Freedom.” And I cannot pronounce her name Nancy. Darlene…
Nancy: Darlene Zschech like a check mark.
Sid: That’s it, Darlene Zschech you’re familiar with her from the Hillsong music this is what she says. “I personally know several young girls who the principles found in this book have been set free after near death from anorexia and bulimia. Mercy for eating disorders is so timely reminding us that freedom from an eating disorder is possible. I thank God for Nancy who on these pages is willing to tell the truth.” Now Nancy Alcorn, for my knowledge and listener’s knowledge how rampant are eating disorders today?
Nancy: Well they’re extremely rapid in fact it’s getting to the point that it’s almost like an epidemic breaking out. I travel not just in America but in other countries such as New Zealand, Australia and England and it’s the same thing everywhere. Young girls in junior high, high school, college and now even in some elementary school children….
Sid: I couldn’t believe last month on USA Today they’re talking about special fashion shops to glamorize little 5 & 6 year olds, I mean I think the whole deal is getting out of hand.
Nancy: It is, it’s leading right into this issue and causing it just to become more and more rampant.
Sid: Now you said something in the introduction to your book that is so fascinating to me I want to read this. First you spoke about anorexia, bulimia, binge eating and then you said “This issue has been explained as an evolution of self-medication that in years past manifested itself in alcoholism, then transformed into drug use in the ’70s, and now is evident in eating disorders.” I never thought about that before but I think that you’re really on to something there.
Nancy: Well you know I think that it’s just another ploy of Satan to try to destroy lives and he uses whatever he can. And there are girls out that are part of youth groups that go to church every Sunday that wouldn’t think about doing drugs or alcohol but they have got caught up with this whole thing of self-image and not dealing, numbing pain and trying to be in control. And a lot of girls who have suffered from eating disorders there’s 1 out of 3 you can relay it back to sexual abuse, and the whole control issue and the way they see themselves and all kind of stuff. It’s just so many things that play into it.
Sid: Now you originally were involved in secular social work, government programs but you got very frustrated, why?
Nancy: Well the reason I was frustrated was because I worked in the government system in the state of Tennessee and I was told that I could not share Jesus Christ, separation of church and state. And here I am knowing that government changes behavior but only Jesus Christ could put a new heart and a new Spirit in us. And when there’s a heart change behavior change is an automatic byproduct of that and yet the One that could change the heart I was told I couldn’t talk about. So knowing that the word of God says that “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon us because God has anointed us to heal broken hearts, to set captives free, to open up the prison of them that are bound.” Then to have the answer and be told “You can’t share that” so I saw kids leave that place 300 kids at any one period of time locked up for a year sent by Juvenile Court Judges and I saw kids leave the place from drug overdoses, killed in street gang fights, some past the age of 18 and ended up in the woman’s prison. Some felt so hopeless that they went out and committed suicide. And it was out of that that I became so frustrated that I began to cry out to God to show me a better way.
Sid: Out of curiosity you founded in 1983 that better way “Mercy Ministries” in which you you’ve seen 1000’s of young women between 13 and 28 rescued from really certain destruction. What results are you really getting, there’s a lot of women that have gone through those door?
Nancy: Right, well you know the thing that’s so incredible is we can’t… I’d love to say that it’s because Mercy Ministries is so great that these lives are changing. We actually are getting changed lives because God is so great and God is so good and He sent a Savior who could put a new heart and a new spirit in us. And when we have a way a message of hope and freedom where we can say to them Jeremiah 29 verse 11 “These are the plans that I have for you declares the Lord, plans to prosper you not to harm you and to give you hope and a future.” And God “You’re not a mistake, you were born for a purpose, God does have an individual plan for your life. And the past does not have to destroy your future, there’s nothing you’ve done that God will not forgive you for and God promised He’ll never leave you and He’ll never forsake you.” And we just really basically try to take all of the negative out and try to see themselves the way that God sees them. To be born again, to be filled with God’s Spirit, to understand God’s plan and purpose for their life, and to have their minds renewed to the word of God. And then that’s where the real transformation process begins as they renew their minds it’s Romans 12:2 “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you can prove what is good, acceptable and perfect will of God.” So that’s what changes the lives, I mean mercy creates an environment where that happens but it’s really Christ who is the heart and the life changer. And because what He’s done for us all ready and girls receiving that and getting a revelation of it. And knowing that they are the righteousness of God in Christ, they’ve been forgiven and that then having the slate wiped clean and being able to start over, being born again. Then they can go forward and that’s why it works.
Sid: But Nancy you have this wonderful facility, and I’m sure you must even have waiting lists of people to get into it. Is that why you wrote your book, for those that perhaps can’t come?
Nancy: That’s absolutely true, we do have a waiting list of girls waiting to get into our facilities, we’re in the process of opening new facilities. There are 2 reasons, 2 primary reasons that were in my heart about writing the book. One is just about what you just said “We wrote this eating disorder book in such a way that girls would not have to come to a place called Mercy Ministries but they would come to a God of mercy who this place is named in honor of. We wanted to write it with the principles of freedom contained on the pages so that anyone who chooses to read this and apply it to their life with God’s help that they can overcome whatever they’re facing. And the second thing I wanted to do with is book is to expose the lies of the experts of the world who say that this is a disease that you cannot overcome that you just have to learn to cope. I wanted also to take our girls at free of charge because we want them to know that our love for them is pure, that our love is unconditional, that we’re not trying to make money off their problem, that we genuinely care. And we believe that they can be free but there is an industry going on in the name of treatment out there that charges some places $2000 a day for these girls to come. And as soon as their parents run out of money or their insurance runs out you know the same people that said they cared they don’t care anymore because that beds got to make money.
Sid: It’s a quick fix but they don’t get a changed life.
Nancy: Exactly, and so I wanted to expose that too, that freedom is possible and that there are a lot of people are being I believe taken advantage of financially by being told your “Daughters going to die if you don’t come here and get this help. And then they get all their money and they’re still not better.”
Sid: Put some flesh on the bones, take one specific person very briefly and tell me about a particular girl that was set free.
Nancy: Okay, well there’s a young girl that came in to the program and she had… I’ll tell you about one from just probably 2 years ago. Her parents were told by the sales department at this Eating Disorder Clinic that’s well renown that if they’re daughter weighed about 70 pounds, I think about 68 pounds at the time and very very thin and very much in a life threatening situation and just getting worse and worse and worse. And her parents were told if they didn’t use their retirement money, they’d saved $100,000 was all their retirement money, if they didn’t spend that to get that to get their daughter help. Because they didn’t have any more insurance, they had already exhausted all of that. If they didn’t spend that she would certainly die. So they spent their whole retirement and when they’re daughter graduated from the program Mercy Ministries, because she went through their program and she didn’t get the help she needed and she called us she was back at the same weight that she was before she went into that treatment program. And when she came into ours, while she was here about 6 or 8 months and she just needed to deal with the issues inside of her heart that she had never dealt with. And there were things internally that she needed help with. And so our counseling department pointed her to Christ, pointed her to the word of God, pointed her to God’s healing process. And it was a process of her working through things and making things right with people in her family that had heart her, and some other individuals in her life. But over a period of time her parents came and stood at her graduation and tears streaming down their face by this time because she weighed about 115 pounds and just absolutely beautiful girl. And she’s now back in college and doing great.
Sid: And you know Nancy when you see that and you contrast it with some clinics where people pay $2000 a day sometimes they keep the young person for 6 months, the parents go bankrupt literally….