Sid: Now I was given a book, oh several months ago and I couldn’t believe what I was reading. There two facts in this book while one I’ll read to you this is the first fact about this book “This is the best kept secret in 500 years one is that do to be exposed now.” The second fact that I saw that just blew me out of the water that there are well this is actual quote here you know Netanyahu the former primer of Israel Netanyahu’s father said in the Jerusalem Post “There were 60 million Sephardic Jews in the diaspora.” That’s 60 million scattered throughout the whole world that’s a lot of Sephardic Jews! Now my guest is an expert on this he is a Sephardic Jew his name is Dr. Dell Sanchez. I’ll be interviewing him this week on his book “The Last Exodus” and for starters Dell what is Sephardic, what does that word mean?
Dell: Sephardic is a word that emanates from the word S’pharad which is Hebrew for Spain.
Sid: So Spanish Jews. Many of our listeners are not aware Jewish people are divided into lots of categories but one category is that there are Sephardic Jews.
Sid: That means Jews Hispanic type Jew, Spanish Jews, and then there are Ashkenazi Jews; these are Jews from Poland and Europe. And a lot is spoken about the Ashkenazi Jews which I happen to be from my heritage. But there is not much spoken and yet it’s too me the history is so fascinating of Sephardic Jews. Now I have to ask you a question because otherwise will have people right in and complain, the question is “What is the best kept secret in 500 years?”
Dell: (Laughing) The best kept secret is that my forefathers in the process of the Spanish inquisition and the expulsion from Spain transferring the inquisition to Mexico and Latin America. That despite the tortures and burnings at the stake and confiscations and genocide, we have been multiplying we’re still alive and well and we’re coming out of the double ash heap of oblivion Sid. That’s the best kept secret that they could not exterminate us all.
Sid: Well I know but I’m going to tell you what I was shocked over and being a Jewish believer in the Messiah for close to 30 years, I have never ever heard anyone ever say this of the shocking really torture that went on to Jews in Mexico and other places in North America.
Dell: Oh yes, yes, yes.
Sid: I mean how come we never heard about the inquisition in Mexico City? I heard about the Spanish inquisition but I never heard of something like that so close to America.
Dell: Well they hid the secret so well both in Mexico as well as in Spain. My wife and I have traveled to Spain and across Mexico not as extensively as we’d like to but the secret has been held and kept so well as to what the inquisition did; the nominal Spaniard today as well as the Mexican all the more. A little bit is know about the inquisition that came against the Sephardic Jew that is our forefathers of Spanish descent and the Iberian Peninsula such as Portugal, the Canary Islands and all of that neck of the woods. But they hid the secrets Sid so terribly well therefore because of the pressure on my people our people had to go underground unless they exterminate them as well.
Sid: Well the thing that so fascinating also is the list you’ve compiled of Spanish names and these are people that actually have Jewish heritage and many of them don’t even know that they have it, is that correct?
Dell: That’s correct and I’m an example. Well I didn’t know why I would use certain terms that I would use from my parents and my grandparents and my great grandparents, and I was always criticized that that was not Castilian, that was not proper Spanish. Well it was never intended to be proper Spanish because it was not ladino or le décimo which is the language of Sephardim of Spain, the Jews of Spain.
Sid: Now how many Spanish names have you accumulated that have Jewish heritage?
Dell: Oh my Lord easily, easily about 6,000 commonly known, commonly accepted Sephardic Jewish names.
Sid: I’m looking at some of these and some of these don’t look Jewish at all!
Dell: Oh, I didn’t think so either (Laughing). In fact I was just in Tel Aviv during Passover, in Israel that is and I met a fellow his name is Labe Frank. And after his reading my book “The Last Exodus” he said “Wait a minute I just discovered based on your facts that I come from a name really that was really Franko and it was changed to Frank, Franko is Sephardic.
Sid: Tell me some of the terms that were not proper Spanish that turned out to be Jewish.
Dell: Oh my goodness.
Sid: Just one or two.
Dell: Well one or two of them or three we used to say for instance el troque instead of la troca, me topé you know la troca means the truck. Okay me topé meaning I bumped into something, that’s Sephardic okay. Anfina instead of así basically meaning like that in this fashion. And I mean a host of terms that we thought you know we thought we were being very secretive when I was being born and reared in a predominately Hispanic community called the barrio. By the way in Spain you had barrios in Poland and Eastern Europe they had ghettos. Our people have been pushed into barrios, in Spain wound up in barrios and Mexico, wound up in barrios in the southwestern United States.
Sid: Did the inquisition actually get in southwest America from Mexico or not?
Dell: I want to say this with a forgiven spirit, I believe it got in through another camouflaged source namely the Spanish missions. And I know that this is shocking but when my wife and I were in a major I believe this countries biggest genealogical center and libraries, but frankly (Laughing) in Salt Lake City, Utah. And I had a theory as to why the missions were established throughout Latin America and Mexico, New Mexico, Arizona, California, and San Antonio, Texas. And when I began to find documented in ancient books in Spanish la quejas, the complaints, my theory came to light and it was documented there of the atrocities and the ugly things that were done to my people in the early beginnings of the Spanish Missions.
Sid: Now let me switch gears for a second, the Netanyahu’s father estimated there is 60 million Sephardic Jews scattered throughout the world. The Jerusalem Post actually reported they thought there were approximately 20 million Sephardic Jews scattered throughout the world. What do you think?
Dell: I think it’s really up into the millions I really do. I don’t know that it would be up to….
Sid: Do you realize what would happen in the Middle East if a tithe of those Hispanic Jews went back to Israel?
Dell: They are going back to Israel God is opening doors for Aliyah, yes. Yes, God is opening doors in fact my wife and I Sid will be guest of none other of the premier of the University in the Negev, that’s the Ben Gurion University and Research Institute.
Sid: Why are you guests?
Dell: We’re guests because they liked what they were seeing in our character and our history, in our investigations and our proclamations to Sephardim. To our Latino Hispanic Brethren across the America that are coming that something it’s a Spirit of God that’s stirring a new awakening that’s going to cause a major revival.
Sid: Dell let me stop you because we haven’t talked for more than a few minutes on the phone ever and I want to tell you what God is showing me. And this was before I got a hold of your book I believe God put this book in my hands. God told me, I can’t say an audible voice, but in my heart of hearts with every fiber of my being I believe the next move of God’s Spirit on Jewish people, it has been on Russian Jews and it’s going to continue in a very big way, but the next big move of Jews world why will be Hispanic Jews. I can’t give you a logical explanation in my head, however with the information that you’re giving me the number the millions of Hispanic Jews can you picture what’s going to happen when…and I think in terms of black Christians when they turn their life over to God. I mean there’s something about the way a black Christian can put their whole being into worship. But I’ve been seeing some Hispanic Jews worship lately and I’ll tell you something they’re going to give the black Christians a run for the money! (Laughing)
Dell: Yes let me tell you one thing that our Hispanic Latino brethren do not have, they have no fear. We have no fear we overcome fear because of the atrocities of the past 400, 500, 600 years it’s in our DNA Sid, fear is abolished. I mean we don’t fear terrorism my wife and I have been there in a kibbutz next to the Gaza Strip above in Egypt when they were bombing and automatic gunfire and tanks rolling and helicopters over head. My wife slept every night peacefully like a baby while I was interceding doing my part not in fear but in alertedness, my wife would just sleep through it all.
Sid: And not only that I think some of the greatest people involved in medicine and philosophy and science and astronomy and music and the arts come from the Sephardic background.
Dell: Well and let me tell you I’m glad that you say that because actually it was…
Sid: And it’s hard for the me to say it since I’m Ashkenazi!
Dell: (Laughing) We’re partnering together for the purposes…
Sid: Well we’re part of that one new man (Laughing).
Dell: But truly it was a Jews that were from Spain that led Spain to the golden age. They were gifted in sciences, and humanities, and the arts, in music, in finance, in business you name it, I mean they had only been there x thousand years since the days of King Solomon they knew what they were doing.
Sid: Solomon? Are you sure since Solomon?
Dell: Let me tell you, yes I am sure because the ….
Sid: I’ll tell you what hold that thought we’re out of time we’ll pick up there on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is John Carver I’m speaking to him from his headquarters in Baltimore, Maryland. And for 30 years God commissioned John to accumulate the best data, video, cassettes of those that have moved in the miraculous. Because as I understand it John the Lord said that we have a generation that knows nothing about the miracle working power of God. Tell me exactly what God commissioned you to do.
John: After my first trip to Arizona God guiding me there not knowing what I was going to find or what I was going to be involved with I was at Miracle Valley for the second time.
Sid: Now for those that are not familiar with Miracle Valley what is that?
John: Miracle Valley was a Bible School and headquarters of AA Allen Ministries from 1958 until 1970, well it went on a couple of years after AA’s death in 1970. Another organization had taken it over and they needed room for their expansion program. So they were eliminating the materials of AA Allen; and it was like a warehouse in some places it was like 2 stories high books and things and Bible Studies were stacked as high as the ceiling 14, 15, 16 feet high and as a warehouse would be very high. So my first visit I went there I got 2 of everything and I thought well these are the tools that I’m going to need in order to become the evangelist that God wanted me to be with signs, wonders and miracles. After I got home with all of that the Spirit of God let me go back again which to me was insane but if you’ve been serving God for awhile He doesn’t always ask you to do the things that seem right. So I went back out again and on my way out of there the second time my car broke down I’m in the middle of the desert and I’m saying “What am I doing here anyway this is crazy?” And I was kind of angry and I just kind of yelled it out you know I’m in the middle of the desert and nobody can hear me and I just say “What in the world am I doing here anyway?” And the Spirit of God spoke to me and said “You’re here because there’s a generation that knows nothing about the miracle working power of God and AA Allen documented his ministry. Well that just scared me to death and I jumped out of the car and kind of stood there and looked at it a little bit and kept thinking the car wasn’t speaking to me that’s for sure. But it was just mind boggling and so all the way home 2600 miles that’s all I kept turning over over in my head was that there’s a generation that knows nothing about the miracle working power of God. And when I looked around and I talked to ministers who I wanted to learn from they really didn’t know the mechanics of these things. May have had God use them but they didn’t know the workings of it, I wanted to know the workings of it I wanted to understand the depth of how God’s power worked.
Sid: Why did you want to understand this?
John: I don’t know now in hindsight I can understand that because he just didn’t want me to go out there and be a minister in signs wonders and miracles he wanted someone to train people of which AA Allen was commissioned to do. He did it to a degree but he didn’t take it to the level that it could have been. And that’s what needs to be done and a lot of preachers never perpetuate their ministry. Oral Roberts made a statement one time that most ministries that have a healing ministry or deliverance would pass away after the person passes away. But he said a ministry like ours would also do that if we hadn’t done something other and that was to create a Holy Spirit research Center which he has there. And it’s pretty unique but at the same token most ministers that God used in the miraculous had very little to show for their ministry in order to pass on to another generation.
Sid: Now you have quite an archive set up tell me about that.
John: That’s correct well unknowing I mean I didn’t know that I was going to go in the direction that I’m in. So I just started getting this material of Allen and Allen had anybody and everybody that was in the healing movement would send him literature their magazines and all of that. So I actually was able to get a pretty good size library from AA Allen’s library actually of magazines of every description from the various healing ministers that communicated with one another. I mean Oral Roberts Ministry was there, Jack Coe’s and you name them TL Osborn the Who’s Who and not so popular people were in there. And so people that later on came down the line 10 or 15 years later their materials were there in the beginning stages of their ministry. And that developed into getting more and more materials in order to understand the mechanics of the gifts of the Spirit and even though there were books written about and certainly people teaching on it there never really that demonstrated. Paul made this statement that “I didn’t come with enticing man’s words wisdom I’ve come to demonstration.” I was looking for the demonstration; we’ve heard a whole lot of people teach about it but not really demonstrating I wanted to see that….
Sid: Tell me why you put together these 3 videos that we’re making available called “The ABC’s of God.”
John: Well here again another visitation from the Holy Spirit how can I equip the body of Christ being I felt like that was what God was kind of leading. And if we go to Ephesians the fourth chapter it talks about the 5 fold ministry are just there to equip the saints for the working of the ministry. And I thought “Boy we kind of got this all backwards if most of the saints are helping the 5 fold ministry to do the work of the ministry. And I thought “Well something’s strange here so I really began to look at this and as the Spirit of God dealt with me He just gave them. The only thing I can contribute everything to God I’m not that smart God literally gave me all this information. And as I looked at the materials that I had it just seemed simple that the beginnings of anything we call it the ABC’s. And so Allen, Branham and Coe just kind of fit it. Each one of their ministry will represent a facet of the miracle ministry that God wants to get to His church.
Sid: Now many of our listeners are not familiar with them even by name.
Sid: Briefly tells us in just a minute for each something for Allen, something about Branham and something about Coe.
John: AA Allen came on the scene about 1950 in the Voice of Healing Ministry. Brannon likewise came in 1946 – 1947 met up with Gordon Lindsey he was a promoter of the Vice of Healing men. He kind of put the business part together for them. He was the organizer I call of victory. He organized these men that otherwise would not then able to the job that God called them to do. And then Coe was part of the voice of healing all three of these men were part of the Voice of Healing Ministry under Gordon Lindsey as the President and a couple of other people. Actually all of those men in some capacity service on the board of the Voice of Healing Ministry they were elders or they were executive partners in this. So each person had a unique ministry that would show a facet of God’s power.
Sid: Tell me the uniqueness for each one and perhaps a miracle that you’ve seen on a video for each one.
John: Okay well I’ve had the privilege of interviewing scores of people who have been in their meetings. Now I was only in AA Allen meeting one time before he past so I saw some wonders that you don’t see today too much but it was something phenomenal. AA Allen had what I call the working of miracles and if you would see on the video how he would literally move people’s body parts in order to actual the working of miracles. I mean he would put people’s legs in place and pray and pull and do this and do things that’s pretty hard to explain on the phone. But he had it…
Sid: How did he even know to do this?
John: Well here again this is where we don’t really understand the mechanics of revelation gifts. Discerning of spirits, the working of word of knowledge, the word of wisdom and Allen was he was probably more unique than any of them he’s actually my favorite…
Sid: I don’t know Branham’s my favorite but go ahead.
John: He was just…because he had so many facets of these other men’s ministries. I mean Branham was more of a word of knowledge he would give you what happened to you tit for tat you know 3 days ago.
Sid: I mean I’ve watched these videos and he’d walk up to a total stranger…
Sid: And he would tell that person what was going on in their life which would cause their faith to just sky rocket and then they’d be healed.
John: That’s the point every ministers responsibility everybody that I’ve ever talked to that’s been in the Voice of Ministry ministered who ministered around these lines it’s like God gave you the gift but He gives you the responsibility to get the people’s faith to a place where they can believe. And I’ve heard this so many times. And Branham’s ministry that word of knowledge told people something that nobody else knew but them and it built such faith the their heart that the miracle took place. Of course Branham also had that gift of miracles to where no disease would stand in front of him even cancer they had a phenomenal ministry phenomenal. And then Coe which was they called Jack Coe the man of Dallas he had such a powerful faith that it just went beyond anybody’s understanding and they criticized him for it greatly because the considered him rough but he only did the things that God told him to do. And I mean he was just bend somebody over or put his knee in their back and pull them back and bring healing. He would pull people out of wheelchairs, take their crutches away and break them and just run with them. And just an endearing faith a bold faith and he’d preach a very simple message just a message of encouragement, of faith stories out of the gospels 90% of the time. And just build people’s faith to a point. There’s one film that we have that’s not on this particular one but it talks about he says “The presence of the Lord is here to heal and we’re not going to preach we’re going call a prayer line and we’re just going to lay hands on people. And these men were sensitive to the moving of the Holy Spirit I think that’s the best answer I could possible give.
Sid: Are there many mysteries on the face of the earth at the level these 3 men were at?
John: Today? No Sir.
John: They won’t pay the price.
Sid: Well maybe on tomorrow’s broadcast we can talk about what paying the price means. Mishpochah there’s some of you that are hungering and thirsting and praying to God, God I want that miracle ministry. We’ll find out what the price is….
Sid: My guest by telephone is Dr. Tedd Tripp. I’m interviewing on his book “Shepherding a Child’s Heart.” I’m concerned about this generation of young people that we have, I’m concerned about parents that are really Christians but they’re working all… one job, two jobs even with tone job they’re so tired they come home they kick off their shoes; that both parents are working or it’s a single parent household. And this generation of kids that are going to hell literally and so one of the things that we’re talking about is authority and I asked the question about the rod. Then on yesterday’s broadcast and we went off the air and you didn’t have a chance to answer is “What if the child after you spanked them and you’ve done all of these loving approaches that you outlined in your book and they are angry, bitter, want to just be away from your presence what would you do?”
Tedd: Well I think that there are 2 things that you want to check. The first thing that you want to check is your own spirit was your spirit wrong in the discipline; maybe you came at the child with your teeth bared.
Sid: What if it was?
Tedd: Well then you need to ask for forgiveness because if your spirit was wrong and you have you have brought sinful anger into this righteous process of discipline then you have muddied the waters with your sinful anger. Now I know some people say “Wait a minute I have righteous anger” and there is such a thing as righteous indignation but I think most of would have to acknowledge we feel toward our children is more often just the garden variety “I just can’t believe you’re doing this I’m not going to take this from you.” And if I’ve been unrightously angry towards my children and I have handled them roughly, my spirit has been one of anger I’ve reduced this to an interpersonal breakdown issue between the child and God. See that’s a very important thing I want to keep the focus in discipline so it’s not just me coming to the child saying “You haven’t been listening to me all day you’re going to get in now I’m not going to put up with this who do you think you are I wasn’t born yesterday!” All of those kinds of things make it an interpersonal breakdown between me and the child. Now I’ve pitted myself against the child, but see what I want to do I want to come to this child in a spirit that’s totally different than that. “Honey I love you I’m committed to you, you have put yourself in a place of danger because it won’t go well with you I want you long life out there, you have violated this circle.” I’m pointing back to what I talked about yesterday Ephesians 6:1 God’s drawn a circle in which children are to live. “Children honor and obey you father and mother it will go well with you if you want to enjoy long life.” This is a great blessing for the child, so I want to talk to this child about that now I’m coming to them not with my teeth barred but Honey I come to you I love you and I’m committed to you. Now if I have come to them with my teeth barred and I’ve come to them in personal indignation and I’ve sinned against them in my spirit and my manner I need to ask them for forgiveness. And I need to not blame the child I must say something like this “Honey please forgive me I was very angry and I should have gotten alone and prayed and asked the Lord to subdue by heart before I talked with you; and I was very angry with you there’s no excuse for me to be coming to you with that kind of anger.” Now you notice I’m not dealing I’m not saying I’m angry but you make me crazy.” Because that’s just saying “I’m angry but it’s your fault” I’m acknowledging my sin and I’m modeling for my child when I’m acknowledging my sin; now true honest confession of sin.
Sid: Now do you ever tell your children or advise parent to tell their children mistakes that they’ve made?
Tedd: Personal mistakes in life?
Tedd: I think that sometimes we can do that and we say “In this situation I acted very foolishly God is showing me that it was wrong and how wrong it was and I’ve turned from that and I don’t do that anymore.” I think it’s spiritually…I think that it’s fair for us to acknowledge to our children our own struggles with our hearts. I think that’s a very powerful way to come along side kids when my child’s struggling with selfishness I don’t have to be hypocritically distant from this child and believe that they’re so selfish and I can stand in solidarity with him. I understand how selfishness works in the human heart. Daddy understands what’s it’s like to be selfish, I know what it’s like for myself first. And there’s hope for people like you and daddy and it’s found in Christ and His grace and His ability to change us eternally. I think that it’s positive for us to in those kinds of ways identify with our children and say “I’m in solidarity with you as a broken, fallen person who sins and fails and continually in need of forgiveness and grace because that’s how we live the Christian life.
Sid: You know the thing that I like about your book that I don’t like in most books that even Christian psychology books is that everything that you teach in this book you’re really zeroing in on the heart, let’s talk about some of these heart issues.
Tedd: Well one of the things that I teach in the book and I talk about in seminars when I’m teaching parents is that you know “It’s out of the overflow of the heart that the mouth speaks.” Now that sounds like an abstract concept if you think about it. I’m talking about heart issues and just to interrupt myself for a minute and say this prophetically. We don’t have to go beyond the world of God to understand people. We don’t have to psychology, we don’t have to go to all the top ideas of the culture the word of God is sufficient the word of God describes for us what the nature of human struggles are. And so I want to use Biblical terms and Biblical concepts. For example vengeance I mean what parent has not seen revenge behavature at your house. I mean “He hit me first.” That’s a defense statement.
Sid: Oh let’s face it adults…it carries on into adulthood.
Tedd: Exactly and let’s see when instead of revenge we need to be trusting ourselves to God that’s what Paul says in Roman’s chapter 12. “Don’t take room for revenge my friends leave rooms for God’s wrath, it’s my revenge I will repay sayeth the Lord.” The point is God will take care of justice I don’t have to take revenge. Or the fear of man the Bible says will prove to be a snare the fear of the Lord in contrast is the beginning of wisdom.
Sid: Ted I imagine a lot of parents read this book to help their children end up having it help them.
Tedd: You know Sid that’s one of the things that parents say to me again and again and again parents will come to me or they’ll write to me or they’ll talk to me in a seminar and they’ll say “This book has changed my life and it’s given me a handle on talking to my kids but it’s changed my life.” You see we’re driven with heart stuff I mean some of those terms vengeance, pride, the love of self, of fear covetousness, envy, hatred, anxiety and fear. Paul talks in Philippians 4 about the contrast between anxiety and fear and knowing peace and contentment. And it’s those things in the heart that push and pull behavior and the things that I do and say that are wrong are driven by those heart attitudes. And I can’t you know if I’m going to really really see lasting change I’ve got to deal with the root issues not just the fruit. There may be fruit that appears on the tree of my life that is unseeingly fruit but the root issues are these heart issues pride, self-love you know covetousness, envy, hatred, rebellion, jealousy these things in the heart are what produce bad behavior. Part of what we want to do with kids is that we want to teach that to children, we want to teach them that contents that’s part of the formative instruction that we do in teaching our children is giving them that understanding of how the heart works and then we want to appeal to that when our children are struggling.
Sid: Give me an example of someone with a heart issue.
Tedd: Alright I’ll give you a quick one we have a…years ago in our Christian School we had boys 4th grade boys that they happen to fight on the playground; I was asked to talk to the boys. One boy come into my office and I said “Ethan tell me what you think is going on here.” I read these passages to him “By the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks and so forth, we know that this behavior is heart driven what do you think was the abundance of the heart for you in this fight?” Well this boy had been in a fight with another little lad in the classroom who was kind of the class outcast you know the class outcast and this boy had made a pass at being included in this little in crowd and the boy was most offended was this boy who I was speaking. He said to me this 9 year old he said “I think it was as we talked he said “I think it was pride.” Why pride? “I think I’m better than he is.” “What else?” “Love of self.” “What do you mean?” “I love me more than I love him.” “What else?” “Selfishness.” This is a 9 year old Sid.
Sid: That is phenomenal, that’s wonderful.
Tedd: Opened up you know we talked about these heart issues he was able to identify some of these things as things that were motivating him. And I said to him I said “Ethan this is why Jesus came; Jesus came because you and Mr. Tripp are people who are full of selfishness, we’re full of pride, we’re full of self love and Christ came to change us eternally and to make us people who truly love others from the heart.” And I said “I want to pray for you and pray that you would be able to love James from the heart.” And I prayed for him and sent him back to class. The teacher called me that night and said “What did you talk to these about today?” I told him about the conversation and he said “I saw Ethan reaching out to John the rest of the day.” Now you could give a threat, you could give an onerous assignment to a child that you know of. “Okay you boys who were fighting on the playground you must write 100 times “I must overcome evil by doing good.” And from Roman’s 7:12-17 and …. You can give some punishment and the child might learn his lesson he’ll come in the next day with writer’s cramp “I’ve learned my lesson Mr. Tripp I’ll never fight on the playground again.” Yeah don’t fight on the playground you’ll have write 100 dumb verses.
Sid: But the heart has not changed.
Tedd: The hearts never been touched.
Sid: Speaking of that there’s children that have been raised on a television show karate and defending yourself and most parents say “If someone starts a fight don’t run away crying just go and land the strongest blow.” What would you say about that?
Tedd: Well I’d say that that’s not Biblical counsel. The word of God says and I know that this is hard for parents and some people listening on the radio might drive off of the road when they hear this but the word of God says “We overcome evil by doing good,” we don’t overcome evil with evil. “Evil…when you respond to evil with evil you increase evil; you overcome evil with doing good.” Now let me say “I think it’s different for a state than it is for an individual because there is a proper sense in which the state and national defense may defend itself and may retaliate.” But the individuals God’s word says “We overcome evil by doing good.” Let me give you an illustration.
Sid: It would take a real changed heart to do that.
Tedd: Well that’s exactly right see that’s the key, that’s the key because my child shall look to me and say “I can’t do this daddy.” And I’m going to say to him “Honey you are right you can’t do it but there’s grace and power and enablement in Jesus Christ. I takes grace it doesn’t take grace to knock the bullies block off but it takes grace…
Sid: But I need grace because we’re running out of time right now…
SID: So John, from your knowledge of, back there, what are the, what’s the strongest weapon we have against the devil?
JOHN: I believe the Word of God is the strongest weapon you can ever have on this planet. You have to learn how to appropriate it. You have to know how to use it. You have to know how to apply it. I think a lot of believers, they’re not learning how to bring up targets in the enemy’s camp. My intimacy with God brings me, gives me authority and the enemy recognizes that you are a child of God and he knows the authority God has given you.
SID: Can anyone have the same authority you have?
JOHN: God is no respecter of persons.
SID: What should someone do if they’re sleeping at night and all of a sudden they feel an oppression, they feel something in the room and that’s not good? What would you do?
JOHN: You know, I had an incident not too long ago. The devil showed up in my room. I mean, the devil himself showed up in my room and cold like an ice box, and it woke me up. I knew there was something there that wasn’t pleasant. And he tells me, and I hear him, and I hear him like an audible. He said, “If you turn on the light I will leave.” And I hear the Holy Spirit deep down inside of me telling me, “If you turn on the light you have no faith.” And I live by myself [unintelligible]. I got up. I got me some water. I said, “I’ll see you in the morning. I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ. I bind you and I command you to leave, and you got 30 seconds to go.”
SID: But you see, he knows his authority. I want you to know your authority. The devil trembles when a believer knows the Word of God and the authority behind it, and the name of Jesus. You told me when you were in the dark side that you used to do something called astral projection.
SID: You go to neighborhoods. What would be doing in those neighborhoods?
JOHN: I would ask, my mission was to astral project, leave my body. I was so good at it that I would even go during the day in neighborhoods that were day time, and the ones that were night time I would go back and forth, and I would throw curses, and I would bring new principality from one region to another so there could be patterns and cycles to happen in the spirit realm so those people won’t grow and they won’t meet Jesus. So that, but they had amazing believers that knew how to pray in the spirit, that would stop me from going into their neighborhood and executing the plan of the enemy.
SID: You’re telling me that these believers could, you could not do anything. You couldn’t put curses on them?
JOHN: I couldn’t even lift a finger.
SID: Now how important is praying in the spirit, praying in unknown languages?
JOHN: The spirit, praying in the spirit is like if you don’t, if your body doesn’t have water you would die. If the believer today is not praying in the spirit you would die spiritually.
SID: You were telling me about these cycles and patterns. What do you mean by that?
JOHN: Repeat. A lot of believers today don’t know how to cut the rope. I lot of believers today, they’re free for six months then they go back to the bondage for eight months. They cut the rope and then they go back again because it’s like the enemy knows how to put entrapment on the believer and then the believer…and then today I have a righteous anger, Sid, that the church is preaching people happy, but they’re not preaching people free.
SID: Boy, that’s a mouthful.
JOHN: I don’t want to go to church to be happy. I can be happy at home. I want to go to church and have you teach me how to fight the enemy, teach me how to be free, teach me how to save my marriage, teach me how to get my children out of drugs, how to beat the devil like no tomorrow. And I believe, and that’s what God has called me to unmask the devil in the towns that we’re in and not because of me, is because who lives in me is greater than he that lives in the world.
SID: I believe, that’s for sure. I believe that when John prays for you right now and I am amazed, I am learning so much so quickly. You think I would know by now. I am learning my authority over sickness, my authority over the demons. And I want you to pray that spirits of infirmity, of sickness will come off of people, and I’m going to tell you something. You’ve been going to the doctor for years and years, and years, and they’re treating the symptoms and it’s not even getting better. You have high blood pressure and they just give you more medicine. You know what I’m talking about. You just get rid of that spirit of infirmity and watch everything work. Pray that right now.
JOHN: Father, in the name of Jesus, right now, I bind the strong man over the airways in the name of Jesus. I bind the gatekeeper. I bind any reinforcement. I shut down the second and first [unintelligible] with the blood of Jesus Christ. I paralyze every devil, every hell, every demon. I paralyze infirmity of sickness right now. Father, I separate one from another. I change their languages, confuse them. I send civil war to the enemy’s camp to let them destroy each other. Loose the person right now. Loose the person in the name of Jesus. I bring healing. I speak healing into your life right now. I speak restoration. I speak restitution upon your life. I put the devil under your feet and keep him there. Father, in Jesus’ name I cage up every demon, my God, in the name of Jesus. I put the blood of Jesus in those demon boxes and let them be tormented night and day, and I close this prayer right now. Father, I come against retaliation. I come against retribution. I come against any [unintelligible] the spirit in the unmatchable name of Jesus.
SID: Okay. Let every man be a liar, but God’s Word, I tell you, God’s Word is true. And God’s Word says, by his stripes, by his wounds, by his blood you were healed. Now be free. The truth will set you free.
SID: Thousands of people have been trained to understand the language of Heaven, to understand their dreams, and this is so important. Adrian, what is the first thing we should do right after we’ve had a dream?
ADRIAN: I guess the first thing we should is write the dream down so we don’t lose that revelation. But after that I think we need to go to God. Ask the Holy Spirit what he’s saying to us. And after I’ve done that I’ll spend some time waiting on God and looking at the dream. Then I would look at the overall picture of the dream and then try to break it down looking at the context of the dream, looking at the elements and see if I can identify certain elements within the dream. Sometimes dreams happen and we’re so subjected and so close to the dream that we don’t understand what God is saying. So sometimes it’s very useful to actually step back and take a little bit of time out before you start to look at the dream. But looking at context, context, dream interpretation is not a formula, and that’s probably the first mistake we make. We tend to think every time we see a rabbit in a dream it’s going to mean something or every time we see a dog in a dream it’s going to mean this. That’s not the case because you look at the other elements in the dream and see how you can get the elements to fit together. You know, just as we would with the Word of God, it says, “By the mouth of two or three witness that every word be established.” So you’re looking for elements within the dream to lock together in your understanding. Well if that’s that and that’s that, and that’s that, now I’ve got a lock. I’ve got three witnesses and now I can build out the rest of the picture and understand what God is saying.
SID: So context really is the key. Now Adam, tell me the difference between, I know what a dream is, but the difference between a dream and a vision.
ADAM: Well vision, from my revelation, a vision is having a dream while you’re awake. Now you can have a—
SID: I like that.
ADAM: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I teach that you can position yourself for visions. And when you’re actually half asleep and half awake, when you’re just about to fall asleep, many people experience images rushing through their mind, when they’re just about, they’re not awake, they’re not asleep. It’s called an alpha sleep.
SID: Give me two, an example of a dream and an example of a vision, and what happened.
ADAM: Well with me, with a vision I had myself, I could stand, I stand in the meeting and I get these open visions, and it’s my subconscious mind receiving like a dream while I’m awake. I saw this man that had a dark mesh over his brain. I basically called this man out. I saw him there. I actually went up to him because he was a senior man. I said, “There’s something wrong with your brain and I need to pray for you to receive healing. You need healing in your brain.” And he agreed. So I put my hand on his head and I decreed Divine order in the name of Jesus. And he was shuffling around beforehand, they were telling me this, and he couldn’t even get out of the chair. And when prayed for him, I came back about, you know, probably six months later, he was walking around, you know, completely free and healed. And that’s impossible.
SID: Healed of Parkinson’s disease.
ADAM: Yes. The doctor is mystified.
SID: Adrian, give me an example of, not you, but someone that had a dream and what happened.
ADRIAN: Someone sat in our teaching, Sid, and they had a dream. So in the dream, they woke up in their bed, and on the end of their bed was the gynecologist of when they had had children. And the gynecologist said to the woman who had the dream, he said, “What does this person’s name mean to you?” Now the person who had the dream works in the capacity where she would go to a person’s home and she would work the whole day there in that home. So when he mentioned this person’s name, what it meant to her was that she had to cross the other side of the city and go to a suburb, so it meant a trek to the other side of the city and to this suburb. And she put two and two together and she realized that the gynecologist relates to birth and this, the suburb happened to be the surname of her daughter. And so she put two and two together, and she realized that her daughter was pregnant. Well that’s what she thought the dream interpretation meant. So she rang her daughter and she said, you know, “I’ve had this dream and I believe that God is showing me that you’re pregnant.” And her daughter denied the fact that she was pregnant. So they talked a little bit, mother-daughter chat, and then she thought, I’ll a different tact. I’ll ring up my son-in-law. And so she rang up her son-in-law and she said, “Congratulations, I understand your wife is pregnant.” And he didn’t know anything about that. He said, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.”
ADRIAN: Yeah. And so she hung up the phone and thought, maybe God got it wrong. Well that night she received a phone call from her daughter and she said, “What have you done? Tomorrow I’m booked for an abortion, and you and God have, you know, intercepted, you know, you’ve come in and you stopped the plan.”
SID: I don’t want you missing any of the language of Heaven anymore. Adam, I want you to pray for people to have dreams, to understand dreams, to have visions, to understand visions, and anything else God shows you to pray right now.
ADAM: Father, in the name of Jesus, I prophesy in the name of Jesus that, Lord, you will be released upon the people out there. And I just ask you if you’re watching this right now, touch the screen or touch your laptop, or wherever you are, because this is transferable. And I decree through the power of the blood of the Messiah that dreams and visions will be released upon people out there, believers. Even if you’re an unbeliever, just touch the screen and I release the revelation of the Messiah Jesus. And Lord Father, in the name of Jesus, we thank you for the Spirit of God that is moving out there, and we thank you for encounters. We thank you for visions, Lord, open visions in the night. And Lord, we thank you, Lord, for the understanding of dreams.
ADAM: The passion and the hunger to have dreams.
ADAM: And Lord, I thank you for appearing to, revealing yourself to unbelievers out there. You’re probably seeking God right now. I see somebody out there who’s actually crying out saying, “If there is a God, if there is a God, reveal yourself to me.” This is a man. I see a man with dark hair and he’s wearing like, it looks like someone in an Islamic country, and I see, in fact, it’s Pakistan, and you’re crying out, “If there’s a real God, if you’re real, reveal yourself to me.” Lord Jesus, I thank you for appearing in this man’s dream and reveal yourself to this man. I decree this across the whole of Asia, the whole of the world in Jesus’ name
ADRIAN: And right now, I would like to add I want to impart the spirits of wisdom and revelation so that not only will you get the revelation, but you understand what God is saying through that revelation, in Jesus’ name.
SID: I want to tell you something. It will never be the same as you begin to understand the language of Heaven.
SID: You know, Joshua is just sitting on the set, and I saw it happen before my eyes, the gold dust started materializing. But this gold dust, it’s a biblical thing. Just give me a couple of passages.
JOSHUA: The Bible says that, “The silver and the gold is mine, says the Lord.” That’s in Haggai. So it all belongs to God. Another thing is, you know, in the Old Testament, Solomon was given instruction to build the Temple using overlaying with gold, ornamenting with gold. And we know that in this day, it’s not, the Temple of God is not a temple that’s made by the hands of man, but we are the Temple of the Holy Ghost. We are the Temple of God. And I believe that God is choosing to pour out his Glory and assign his Glory upon his people, just like Acts 2 says, “In the last days I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh.” He’s choosing to pour out his Glory on us.
SID: Yeah, but in an elevator? Tell me about that.
JOSHUA: Well you know, quite a few years ago I was ministering in Toronto and I was getting ready for the meeting, and I went, I was going to go downstairs. And when I got to the elevator, the door opened. I didn’t have any gold on me. I mean, just looked plain as day, whatever. I go to walk in the elevator. As soon as I walked in that elevator it was like some kind of supernatural dump truck from Heaven opened up over my head and literally the gold of Heaven poured from the top of my head all the way right down to my feet, and I was covered in gold, not just a few specks, like millions. It wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say millions because I looked like I was painted with gold.
SID: I wasn’t in that elevator, but I have seen you like that.
SID: It is a sign and a wonder.
JOSHUA: It happens on occasions, just God’s Glory. And there was three people standing on that elevator, and they were watching me. I mean, they literally saw me come on the elevator, no gold. The next thing they know, I’m covered with gold. They don’t know what’s happening, but they start freaking out, and they’re shouting and screaming, making all these sounds. And I’m standing there like thinking, what am I going to say. And the next thing I know, the elevator door closes behind me and I realize these people are on for the ride whether they like it or not. And you know, God has a way of setting people up and getting them into a place of encountering his Glory and that’s what he did. And in a moment, God spoke to me and gave me the words to say. I said, “This is a miracle from God because Jesus loves you.” And that’s all I had to say. I didn’t realize, later on I found out that there was someone in downtown Toronto that was telling, had been telling them that afternoon the Gospel message and trying to preach the Gospel to them, and they just continued to walk. But the Bible says in Mark 16, verse 20, “Signs will come from the Word that’s been preached.” And you know what, they walked right onto that elevator into that place where God was about to manifest a sign to confirm his Word, and when that sign came, and I said, “This is a miracle from God because Jesus loves you,” tears began to well up in the one lady’s eyes, and all three of them ended up giving their hearts to Jesus as Lord and Savior by the time we got to the lobby of that hotel. It was that easy. It was simple.
SID: You know, this gift that Joshua has, when he plays the piano, I’ve been listening to it lately, it brings such supernatural peace. Tell me about the woman in the hospital who started listening to your music. She was in a coma, I believe.
JOSHUA: Well you know what happened, was she ended up, they found out, she didn’t realize it, she had a tumor on the back of her head. And they took her to the hospital, they found the tumor. They thought this is going to be a routine surgery, no problem. They went to take the tumor out and the next thing they knew, they cut an artery and she started bleeding. All of a sudden, the surgery, instead of being simple, it got very complicated and one thing led to the next, she ended up in a coma. They had to remove a portion of her skull. They ended up putting it in her stomach. She ended up on life support. They called her sister, and said, come in because it was a very serious situation. And I thank God that the one sister had been in my meetings and actually had one of my CDs, and she brought it up with her to the hospital. And when all hope was gone and the doctors wanted to take her off life support, the sister began playing this CD all night to her in her ears, and just over and over, and over, just soaking within the atmosphere of the Glory. And Sid, the next day when the doctor came in, this was, this lady’s name was Mary Jo, and she was able to move her pinky. By that night she was beginning to walk. The doctors said, even if she came to, that most likely she would be disabled her entire life, that she wouldn’t be able to walk she wouldn’t be able to talk properly, that she wouldn’t be able to move. The second day, she was moving around the hospital room so much that they had to put her in what’s called a butterfly bed because they didn’t want her to get out. They needed to contain her for the healing process. And it’s amazing. God did this supernatural miracle with her by her being in the right atmosphere of Glory, by just soaking in the atmosphere of Heaven, Heaven literally was released onto her into her physical body. It’s awesome.
SID: Tell me a few ideas, like you mentioned one right now to have the atmosphere of Heaven.
SID: You told me in your house you have speakers in every room and you’re playing music such as yours and other people. What difference is it making?
JOSHUA: You know what, it cost a lot of money for those speakers in my home, but the right atmosphere is priceless. And what the right atmosphere creates, money can’t even buy. And so we ended up outfitting our house with these speakers that we could just fill the home with the sounds of praise, which changes the atmosphere, and then worship, which sustains the realm. And day in and day out, we have this atmosphere just releasing the Glory of God within our home. We just had a baby two weeks and so I’m really excited about that. Her name is Legacy.
SID: That’s a great name.
JOSHUA: It is an awesome name.
SID: Was your wife pregnant, the whole time that she was, your wife, she was hearing that worship music.
JOSHUA: She was. We kept them incubated, if you will, within the atmosphere of Glory. And when Legacy was born, she was born so healthy and beautiful, and we actually played worship music even in the hospital. And my wife was able to give a pain-free, natural, I believe supernatural childbirth in the Glory because of the atmosphere of Heaven being present.
SID: How about your marriage? How does the atmosphere of Heaven affect your marriage?
JOSHUA: The Glory of Heaven infiltrates our marriage with the atmosphere of unity. It brings the atmosphere of healing. It brings the atmosphere of reconciliation. It releases the atmosphere of peace within our home. It’s amazing what the Glory of God does. It even comes to give creative ideas and solutions.
SID: I tell you what. You businessman that’s worried about whether you’re going to continue getting money in your job, you businessman that has a problem that you can’t figure out how to solve, do you realize you student that’s doing a special term paper, how would you like an idea from Heaven for your term paper. When we come back, I’m going to have Joshua tell you of some amazing things that have happened to people by just being in the atmosphere of Heaven. I want to find out a few more ways of getting in that atmosphere. We’ll be right back.
SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Why does a rabbi get involved in deliverance, people that have evil spirits? Why does a rabbi say, it’s so simple, you can take care of it yourself. Why does a rabbi say, everyone needs deliverance in areas of their life? Why does a rabbi say you will have unprecedented peace when you’re totally free? Anyone interested? Rabbi Schneider, when was the first time you were exposed to deliverance to demons?
RABBI SCHNEIDER: It was the mid-1980s, Sid. I was pastoring a church. There was someone that was really manifesting demons. I was called to the scene. I brought another pastor with me. I had never been exposed to it before. The only thing I knew how to do was scream. Hopefully they’d leave. And we left that episode and the other pastor that I brought with me said to me, he said, “You know, when the knife is sharp you don’t have to cut so hard.”
SID: You learned a lesson well. But then you have this Messianic Jewish congregation and you notice a lot of problems and you decide you’re going to help these people with a course. But then that created a problem. Explain.
RABBI SCHNEIDER: Exactly. Well I became aware of the fact that we’re moving deeper into the End Times more than ever. People have been infiltrated with demonic spirits. And so I got some training in this area to minister deliverance to people and we set up a team. I trained a team of people in our congregation to minister deliverances, about an eight-hour process that we bring people through. What happened, Sid, was so many people were requesting to go through the process that we ended up in a short period of time being booked out a year in advance. And every week I’d run into people that would say, I need help, I need help, I need to go through deliverance. And I’d say, “You know what, let’s get you through the deliverance process,” realizing in my heart they’re going to wait a year. And I was grieved about this I began to pray, well what can I do to solve this. I tried to raise up another deliverance team. I couldn’t find the right people with the right availability. Kept on seeking, Lord, how can I help these people, they need help today, not a year from now. And the Lord led me to start teaching on what I call self-deliverance so that the people in the congregation that needed help today that we couldn’t see for a year, they could find help today through the process of learning how to exercise the Holy Spirit within them, with the Word of God to get breakthrough through the darkness so that they could come into freedom for themselves. And so how that’s how this whole concept evolved. It was really to address a need that I saw within my congregation.
SID: There’s people watching us right now and what is this demon business? That’s not for today. We don’t have demons today. What would you say?
RABBI SCHNEIDER: You know what, that’s a great question and I think that we do live in such a sophisticated time that as you said, Sid, the term seems archaic. I like to try to speak to people on these terms. Most of us will recognize that there is such a thing as evil in the world. In other words, we can point to specific acts where, for example, a child was abused sadistically, and no one would argue that that’s evil. So the next question is, well where did that evil come from, so that then people are moving from the fact that they see evil in the world, now they’re moving into the phenomenon, okay, I see that there are such a thing as general evil. But when we speak about a demon we’re taking it one step further. We’re going beyond general evil to personal evil, that evil has intelligence and it has an agenda to destroy.
SID: What about a born-again Bible believer that says, wait a second, you’re going a little too far. I can’t have a demon. What would you say?
RABBI SCHNEIDER: Well you know, the scriptures say to us, Paul said, “Our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities of darkness.” So of course, he was speaking to believers when he said, “Our fight is not against flesh and blood.” And Peter said, “Your adversary,” speaking to believers, “the devil is roaming around like a lion looking for someone to devour.” So the New Testament is very clear that everybody is struggling against darkness.
SID: When we come back, I want you to share about how God set Rabbi Schneider free supernaturally from a dream. Yes, a dream. We’ll be right back.
Sid: I want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah and that’s almost an understatement for my guests. I’m speaking to Heidi then shortly I’ll be speaking to her husband Rolland Baker. I caught up with them because the lines were so bad going to Mozambique, Africa that I caught up with them in Toronto where they’re ministering at the Toronto Airport Church. I have seen a video of Heidi and I had heard about what God is doing in the Baker’s lives. As a matter of fact Heidi I was telling Rolland this a little earlier, my first exposure to your family was a few years ago I got a hold of a book called “Visions Beyond the Veil.” I did not notice the date it was written. I read it, and I read about China, and orphan children having visions of heaven and being caught up and preaching on the streets of China, so many supernatural things. So I called my producer and I said “Get me that man I want to interview him and offer this book.” Then I found out he had gone to heaven many years ago and the author of that book, the man in China, was the grandfather of Rolland Baker. But Heidi I saw what the world would call outrageous things going on in your life on a video from the Toronto Airport Church. I found out that you have a PhD, not that means a whole lot, but it gives you a certain credibility, but what goes on when you minister… I mean I saw you in a video where you were preaching because you were flat on your face. Why someone with a PhD, why wouldn’t you at least stand and use that microphone?
Heidi: Well I was unable to stand up the kavod of God the weight of His glory just fell upon me and I was unable to stand up. So if I can’t stand up I preach with my face flat on the ground prostrate before the Mighty God.
Sid: Now you’re an American and at 16 you were trying to figure out what life was all about and you wondered into an Indian reservation in Mississippi. What happened?
Heidi: Well I was an American field scholar and was living on a reservation and was really was lonely and wanted God. I grew up wanting God and was in a very formal church and prayed a lot, never knew Him. Went to a revival meeting where 500 Indians were seated and myself. I walked in with my long blonde hair in a rain storm sopping wet, and heard the gospel for the first time. I was pulled from my seat by God, just pulled from my seat. I was the only that night that gave my life to Jesus and I met Him with such complete passion and devotion. I remember just crying over my sins and they said “Calm down, calm down it’s okay.” I said “No it’s not I’m a sinner!” and I just cried out and asked God for mercy. From that day I’ve been loving Him and serving Him.
Sid: Five months later while you were still 16 years of age you had an unusual vision, explain that.
Heidi: Well I was fasting and praying. I was in this little Pentecostal Holiness Church and they told me that it was really a wonderful thing to fast and pray and I needed to do that. So I just said “Okay I’ll do that I want more of God.” On the 5th day of the fast I was in church worshipping and suddenly I was frozen right where I was on my knees with my hands lifted up. I was unable to move and a bright white light covered me and I heard the audible voice of God, the only time in my whole life that I’ve heard the audible external voice of God. He called me to be a minister and a missionary to go to Africa, Asia, and England. I felt Jesus kiss my left hand and oil ran down my arm and I was completely ruined from that point on. I’ve never looked back, I’ve never dreamed of doing anything else and I just love Jesus more than life itself, I love Him more than anything. The next day I started preaching on the streets and I’ve never stopped.
Sid: Now this may be difficult but as best you can describe what the audible voice of God was like.
Heidi: It was clear, it was a clear deep voice. I felt like my heart was melting I felt so loved, so loved. As I heard the voice it went straight through me it felt like it not just hit my ears but it hit my entire being my whole body. It was like it captured me those are the only words I could use for it His voice captured me, captured my heart, my spirit, my soul, and my mind.
Sid: So did you immediately got to Africa?
Heidi: I wanted to but my parents both were very educated and they said “You must finish at least one degree.” So I ended up going to an Assembly’s of God University in California and finishing my BA. At the time met Rolland went lunch once and got married and went off to Indonesia on a one-way ticket and $20.
Sid: How supernatural was the fact that the 2 of you were attracted to each other?
Heidi: Very supernatural I think he was 12 years older and we weren’t interested in dating and we didn’t do any dating we just had the one lunch at a Chinese restaurant (laughing). God spoke to me again, to my heart in the slums of Mexico City and He told me I’d marry Rolland Baker and I did.
Sid: Now did God speak to Rolland also?
Heidi: He did. I didn’t tell Rolland what I had heard. So we started talking and he’d come to my school and we talked and prayed together. I knew even the night he asked me to marry him. We got to know each other after we were married.
Sid: Now I’m going to fast forward you to a very important, critical time in your life it was 1997 and you were at a church in Toronto, Canada called the Toronto Airport; where for many years they’ve had an outpouring of God’s Spirit that is really a tremendous watering hole for people that want to be refreshed. What were you doing there?
Heidi: I was just desperate for God. Rolland had went and was transformed by God. He was just so sweet and filled with the love of God I said “I have to get there.” The first time I went I had pneumonia checked myself out of 2 hospitals. Was just on the floor again, the weight, I literally felt the weight of God’s presence as this desperate hungry thirsty missionary, already been missionaries full-time 18 years. Just so tired, so weary and we just drug ourselves in the door and “God please, please do something! You know we love you but we’re tired.” At that time… the first time I was stuck to the floor I saw a vision of Jesus. I never seen Him so clearly just His eyes…
Sid: Excuse me when you say to “stuck to the floor” for those that aren’t familiar with that explain.
Heidi: I was unable to move. I was… I really… I asked God what it was and it was the kavod, it’s the weight of His glory. You know the word in Hebrew for kavod it’s weight. The glory of God is heavy and it fell upon me. I was unable to even move my little finger, unable to move.
Sid: How long?
Heidi: Well the first time it was for several days about 3 days…
Sid: But, but wait a second now did someone carry you out? 3 days is a long time.
Heidi: I was unable even to use the ladies room. I was carried everywhere and it took several people to carry me. I’m not a very big person but I was very very heavy (laughing). At times it would take 4 people to carry me.
Sid: What did God reveal to you that first time?
Heidi: Well the first time he showed me His eyes. I was just ruined, that’s the only word ruined.
Sid: Ruined for what?
Heidi: Ruined for anything but loving Him and giving all that I am, and all that I will be over to His love.
Sid: You know that’s a gift. People can say “I want that” but you can’t do that in the flesh.
Heidi: No you can’t manufacture it.
Sid: You know I’m reminded of what the Messiah said He was quoting Deuteronomy 6:4 and someone asked him what’s the major commandment and He said the Sh’ma Deuteronomy 6:4 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul,” and then the Messiah added to that and said “And you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” You can’t do that without God’s help.
Heidi: No and this vision incorporated both those things because I fell so in love with Him, even more than I ever knew I could be in love with Him as His eyes just pierced into my heart and I felt like I was melting on the floor. Then I saw His body His broken bloody beaten body and there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of children all around me and I began to scream “No! No! No! There are too many!” I couldn’t do it we already had 320 orphans and that was overwhelming enough. The Lord said “Feed them” and he took a piece of His side right out of His broken bloody side He took a piece of His flesh and He handed it to me. As He handed it to me that flesh turned into bread in my hands right before my eyes it turned into bread. He said “Give it to the children” and as I began to give the children the bread it multiplied in my hands and thousands of children ate, thousands. Then He took a cup and was a poor man’s cup it wasn’t jeweled like some of the pictures you see jeweled and beautiful gold cup it was a wooden cup, it was a poor man’s cup. He filled it with blood and water from His side and He handed it to me He said “Drink it” I knew it was a cup of bitterness and joy. He said “Drink it.” I drank that cup, He said “Give it to the children to drink.” As I gave that cup to the children it became drink, it became drink and they drank thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands. He said “I died that there would always be enough.” From that day we have taken every single blind child we’ve ever come across.
Sid: How many do you have that you take care of now?
Heidi: We have several thousand now that we take care of and…
Sid: And how many churches have you been responsible for starting?
Heidi: Over 3000 churches.
Sid: In how long a period of time?
Heidi: Well we had 90 churches in the summer of ’98 after this vision…
Sid: Oh my goodness we’re out of time.
SID: Remember the old story about the emperor’s new clothes? Do you remember that? Well Bert, your wife had a dream which is kind of on that order. Tell me about it.
BERT: Yeah, it was very significant at the time she had it and it still is today. In this dream, she was on this church property and the pastor was giving her a tour. They were having like a picnic-like fellowship on the grounds and the pastor was showing her around. And then they went into this large kitchen. He actually called it a cookhouse where they were preparing this food. And my wife knew what the food was because she had had some of this food, these rice dishes and these things that she had in Africa. And she told the pastor, she looked up at all this food that was being stored on all these shelves, and she said, “How come you’re not serving this food to the people?” And he said, “It’s strange food. They’re not used to it.” And so after that he took her back out on the church ground and there were all these weeds and tares that were growing up all over the property. They were crossing over on this little stick bridge, this little garden bridge and she noticed these weeds and tares were coming up under through the wood, and it was hard to even cross that bridge. And then all over the ground it was getting harder for people to walk. They were getting entangled in all these weeds and all these tares. And then my wife was very distressed after the dream and asked the Lord about it, and the Lord said, “These weeds and these tares represent festering sin, complacency and compromise that it’s gotten into the body of Christ because of certain truths and themes that are not being preached.
SID: Well here’s what I don’t get. We have more Bibles in the United States of America per square Christian than any country that ever lived. Now we have the Internet, and where you can get free copies of almost every version of the Bible right on your own Internet. How can we be missing these major themes?
BERT: In the West, we separate knowledge from application. The Bible is an eastern book and in the East, you know because you’re a Jew, they did not separate application and knowledge. You did not know something until you applied it. But here we, our supreme authority, has not been the Word of God. Jesus has not been the supreme authority in our lives and people are, you know, Paul prophesied. He spoke of it. In the last days, people are not going to endure sound doctrine. They’re not going to have ears to hear the truth. They’re going to keep to themselves teachers because they’re going to have itching ears. Paul said, “Some will depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of the devil.” We’re living in that time. We’re living in the last of the last days. And I’ve seen a major departure from biblical truths. I mean, I’m not talking about minor truths. I’m talking about major truths, major themes in the Bible.
SID: God told you, actually spoke to you that there is a diabolical plan so that major areas of the Bible are just not talked about today.
BERT: Yeah. He said there’s been a diabolical silence on holiness and because people just misunderstood.
SID: What is holiness?
BERT: Holiness, to me, the essence of it—what happened with Adam and Eve? When they first fell, the first thing they tried to do was what? Hide. To me, holiness does not hide. The essence of holiness is transparency. It’s an unveiled face. It’s when you’re open and honest before God. And then out of that will come a lifestyle of holy living. It’s not what you wear, how you dress, the outward blessings that you have. Holiness is the nature, it’s the character of God, it’s the outshining of God in a person, and it’s beautiful.
SID: You’ve researched the nuggets that people of old that had normal, according to the Bible, ministries, like Smith Wigglesworth. Give me a nugget from Heaven.
BERT: Well there’s many of them. Wigglesworth said, “If anything in this world fascinates you more than God then you don’t have what God wants you to have.” He said, “Anything that cools your affection for God is worldliness.”
SID: So how does someone that is a mixture, we’re humans, there’s degrees of mixture in every human, that’s going to a seeker sensitive, lukewarm church or one where there’s no power, how do they have a fire on themselves and a fire in their home?
BERT: Well we know today that God doesn’t dwell in a temple made with human hands. He dwells in each one of us. If a person is born again, especially if they’re also filled with the spirit, they are the Temple of God. God lives within them. And it’s being aware, developing a consciousness, an awareness of God’s presence 24/7 that you really learn to experience the presence of God. And there’s an infilling that’s not just a one-time infilling, we call the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, but it is a stream that should never run dry. We should be being filled continually. The Bible says in Ephesians 5, “Do not be drunk with wine with excess, but be filled” or be drunk “with the spirit.” Talk about Smith Wigglesworth, he came to place at the end of his life when he said he could get drunk any time he wanted to on the Spirit of God. And when he was around sinners and people that were not informed or were ignorant of these things, he could just sober up like that. I tell you, what a way to live that a man got to that point where he could tap into the Spirit and get drunk any time he wanted to.
SID: Okay. How can we have it in our home, what he had?
BERT: It comes through praying in the Holy Ghost. It comes through spending time in the Word of God. What was it, those two disciples on the road to Emmaus, remember after the resurrection in Luke 24, what caused their hearts to burn? It said, “Did not our hearts burn when he spoke the Word of God to us, the Scripture to us by the way?” In other words, it was a revelation of the Word that caused their hearts to burn. Well we know that the Word of God is an all, God is an all-consuming fire, but the Word is a fire. So you know, these spiritual exercises being filled with the Holy Ghost, praying in the Spirit, meditating on the Word of God, just spending time with Jesus, we need to give ourselves to inspired utterances, not just in tongues, but we need to be speaking and singing to ourselves. The Bible says psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. That’s almost a lost art in the church today. We don’t do it.
SID: So many things are lost. You have to tell me about Father Nash. Most people never know that name, never know that name.
BERT: Father Nash was the prayer partner of Charles Finney. He went, wherever Charles Finney was sent to preach, he would go like a week or two before him, sometimes gather one or two other praying, very skillful, prayerful people, and they would enter into deep intercession together. I’m talking about groanings, and travail, and giving birth to what God wanted to do in those meetings. And they knew it was time to bring Finney, to summon Finney, they would look out the window when, in the time when many people were outside on the sidewalks, on the street. And when men started bowing down and kneeling on the ground in conviction they knew it was time to bring Finney.
SID: You know, he had an easy job. As a matter of fact, you told me that when Father Nash died, what happened to Finney?
BERT: Oh he stopped, he quit the ministry. He knew the power engine in his ministry, the power behind his ministry was Father Nash’s prayers.
SID: Okay. I want to find out what he believes, being a student of revivals and awakenings that we’ve never even seen in our generation to this degree. Is there hope for America? We’ll be right back.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. How would you like to make right decisions every time? My guest says it’s simple. Would you like to learn? You know, my guest was an instructor at Rhema Bible College and I am told by friends that graduated the best course at Rhema was what she taught, “The Blood Covenant.” Give me one nugget, Karen.
KAREN: Well I think probably, you know, it’s an amazing covenant and if I had to give one it would probably be the fact that the blood of Jesus brought back for us everything that Adam lost. You know, the life is in the blood and it was the blood of Jesus that brought [it] back for us. And now we’re in the same position with God that Adam was because Jesus tore down the veil between man and God, eradicated our sin and let us just walk in to his throne room.
SID: You know, you like to teach the way Jesus taught. Give me a couple of things Jesus taught in reference to prayer.
KAREN: Well one of the things he prayed, of course, was the Prayer of Consecration. When Jesus faced the toughest decision of his life he had to pray, “Father, not my will, but your will be done.” So if we’re trying to make a decision we want to pray that way, too, Father, let your will be done in my life. But that’s not to be confused with the Prayer of Faith, which is something that, the Prayer of Faith changes things. And so we don’t pray if it be thy will concerning my healing, for example, because we know it’s God’s will to heal us.
SID: You found that when you pray the way Jesus taught to pray you get supernatural results. Tell me about that relative of yours with the awful condition in her hand.
KAREN: So I was just talking with this person and all of a sudden I noticed on her hands that she had this kind of rash that they looked all red. And she told me it was all over her body. She had never had anything like that happen before, but it was making her miserable. You know, she couldn’t sleep, she couldn’t, you know, rest, and it was itchy and everything. And I said, you don’t have to have that. So I took Jesus at his word, laid hands on her and when we parted ways she didn’t look any different. But she contacted me the next day and said, “Thank you, I’ve been healed all over my body. There’s no more rash.
SID: You know, there is a quote I have for you, Karen, “God has plans for you. He’s not keeping from you, but for you.”
KAREN: Isn’t that good news.
SID: It is.
SID: Explain it to me a little.
KAREN: Well you know, Jeremiah 29:11 says, “I know the plans I have for you, plans for good and not for evil that you can have hope and an expected end.” I love that verse. First of all it tells you, A, there is a plan, thank God, and B, somebody knows what it is, you know. Many of us are seeking around for God’s plan wondering his direction for our life. But he has a plan. Ephesians 2 says, “He had it before you were born. He created you for good works that you should walk in them.” And so when we seek him we can get into the plan and that’s how we follow it out and be in his perfect will for our lives.
SID: You say we can make decisions from God, which will be perfect decisions. We can know what he wants us to do every single time. And you say we have a helper.
KAREN: We have what I like to call a guide on the inside. The Holy Spirit is in there to lead and guide us, and help us every step of the way.
SID: You teach that we really can get God’s input in decisions every single time. What types of decisions, just the life-changing ones or little day-to-day?
KAREN: I’d say both. You know, obviously we need to hear for major things, you know, should I marry this person, should I move to that city, should I take this job, you know, big decisions, but then also tiny little ones. And really, we should practice with the everyday decisions. You know, Lord, should I turn left or right here, should I talk to this person or not. You know, and the Holy Spirit will give you promptings and say, go over there, do that. And if you practice listening to the Spirit, he’ll lead and guide you in those small things so that you’re ready to hear him in the big things, and you can make those right decisions.
SID: I know people whose very advice were dependent on hearing God and doing what he had to say. When we come back, I want to get more of these nuggets on how we can make right decisions every time and it’s simple. Be right back.