SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest says that the veil between Heaven and Earth is getting thinner. That’s why we’re hearing of so many people having visitations to Heaven, so many people seeing the invisible world, seeing angels, so many people being able to understand the invisible world. And she says she can teach you to see into this invisible realm. Anyone interested? Me, too. You know, as I read the Tanakh, the Jewish Scriptures, I see a term there called “seer” and it’s always intrigued me no end. Ana, you are a New Covenant seer. Explain what a seer is exactly.
ANA: So a seer, that term, it’s not a wackado term. It’s been in the Bible, it’s been there for all times. But a seer is somebody that hears from the Lord, they get wisdom from the Lord primarily through the gift of sight and they prophesy or discern into a situation with that gift.
SID: Now you see things sometimes over people. Give me an example of where you saw something over a person and it resulted in them being helped.
ANA: Sure. Often, because I work in healing ministry a lot, so sometimes when I’m praying for someone or someone comes for a prayer I will see an area of their body highlighted. Like one time I was praying for this lady and I saw her shoulder and it was highlighted in a different color. It just looked purple. And she did not actually ask me for a prayer for that. But I said, “Hey, is your shoulder hurting? What’s going on with your shoulder?” And she said, “Yes, it is hurting.” So I prayed for, our team and myself, prayed for this lady. And as we were praying I could see the presence of the Lord come over her shoulder and I could see a literal color change. And I said, “Well what’s going on now because your shoulder looks better. What’s going on?”
SID: You have an unfair advantage over the devil. That’s pretty cool. I like that. Do you ever see words over people?
ANA: Yes. So I will see words also where sometimes sickness gets locked in our body because we’ve got hurt or wounds, or other things.
ANA: Unforgiveness, bitterness, things that we hold on to. So sometimes I might see the word, like “unforgiveness” or “bitterness” over someone and I’ll know that’s the root, that’s where the enemy has got them, that’s why sickness is on them. So we’ll go after that. We’ll pray together, is there something going on in your life where you can’t forgive somebody. And through that then they get healed as I’ll walk them through that forgiving that person. Then they receive healing.
SID: When was the first time you could remember seeing in the invisible world?
ANA: When I was five years old, I was playing in my room and an angel walked in.
SID: Were you afraid?
ANA: I wasn’t.
ANA: Isn’t that weird? You would think stranger, danger, I would be scared. But it wasn’t like. It was like my best friend just walked in the room, and he was really warm and friendly. And we played together, and he told me his name was Timothy. I asked him, “What’s your name?” Kids just ask whatever they want. So I said, “What’s your name?” He said Timothy. He told me he’s my guardian angel and I asked him, “Can I touch your wings?” He said, “Sure.” So I got to touch his wings.
SID: What does his wings feel like? I’ve never touched an angel’s wings.
ANA: It was really gentle, like soft, but also very firm and strong.
SID: Tell me about the next time you saw an angel.
ANA: I was a missionary in Brazil and I was working in the drug trafficking slums, and I had gone with a bunch of my friends went to our other friend’s house that evening. So I was very naïve, very ambitious, but very naïve, and I thought, I’m going to go walk home on my own. And I hadn’t been in the country very long, and I didn’t speak Portuguese at the time. So I started walking. I got completely lost. Very quickly, I was lost. It was very scary. I’m not going to lie. It was very scary because all around me I could see drug traffickers.
SID: You were in a bad area of town.
ANA: I was in bad area. I was in a slum and I could see men carrying guns and there was also children, little boys like seven years old carrying guns. And they were approaching me. It’s like, you don’t belong here, and they were coming closer and closer, and closer. So little woman of faith that I am here, I got down on my knees and I just started crying, and I said, “God, I need your help. I need your help. I am so stupid and naïve to do this on my own, and I am lost. I need help and I need help now.” My life was really in danger. And I heard the Lord’s voice and he just said, “Ana, look up.” So I looked up, looked down. The blocks go like a zig-zag, and I looked down the block and I saw an angel, and he was staring at the end of the block, and waved, picked a flower and dropped it, and then took off. So it didn’t take me a second to think what I was going to do. I didn’t have another option. So I just went, I’m going to get that flower, chase that angel. So I ran to the end of the block, picked up the flower and then looked down the next block, and there he was at the very next block, and he did the same thing. So I ran to the next block, picked up the flower, and this kept going on and on, and on. It was like an hour and a half of just zig-zagging through, until the very last flower he dropped was at my doorstep, and I was back home.
SID: And Ana told me she actually pressed one of the flowers to always remember it, and you have it right there.
ANA: I did. I brought it.
SID: Can I see it?
ANA: Yes. It even says the day I was lost and I followed an angel home. I brought it.
SID: Wow! That is neat. You’ll always remember this and you’ll always remember not to walk in a country where you don’t speak one word, alone, in the drug traffic area. When we come back, I want Ana to pray for you to have your eyes opened to see angels. Be right back.
SID: Okay Karen. You’re ready for the ministry of your life, what you’re created for. I mean the Israeli army wanted you to do the same thing you did in Jericho. You get back to your destiny, you’re in Jerusalem, you’re managing these Palestinian camps and then the persecution gets beyond the pale. They literally try to kill her. Tell me about that day.
KAREN: Well that was very recent. A year ago. They surrounded our church, they gassed us, they threw rocks through the window. Nine people got hurt.
SID: This was the Palestinian militants?
KAREN: Yes in Jerusalem. Arab/Israelis and some of the Palestinian militants from the West Bank. There was a weapons specialist that used to work for President Arafat. There was another few of the men that had been arrested by the Israeli army for previous incidents. They wanted my building to make a mosque and they just were relentless. I’m talking about 4-1/2 months of serious persecution where I couldn’t even step outside without them saying, ‘We’re going to kill you.”
SID: Okay so you’re in your church and they come up to you. Was it from behind? What did they do?
KAREN: One morning I go outside and I’m feeling that God’s going to give me a breakthrough and I’m waving a flag that says Yeshua. Sunday morning, 10 o’clock, waiting for our service to start. People are coming in and as I was walking towards our double doors behind me the men charged me and just hit me from behind and fractured my wrist. I flipped into the air, my knee was cracked. I mean I was bleeding in the face. I don’t remember exactly all that happened. All I remember is the initial impact.
SID: And you told me you left your body.
KAREN: Oh for sure. I laid on the ground and I left my body. I couldn’t breathe and all of a sudden I’m just in the air with Jesus. I’m just in the air with Jesus. I’m saying to the Lord and I feel the Lord had put this in my heart because afterwards I thought it was a strange thing to be praying about when there was no life in my body laying there in front of the church, but I began to tell the Lord, “Lord they’re laughing at you, they’re blaspheming you.” I said, “Your enemies are mocking you.” I said, “I have no breath, I’m laying there like a piece of flesh.” And it was a woman, an Israeli, came out of the church, Kathy. She began to pray in tongues and then I heard a heavenly choir. I just hear this angel singing and it was just so beautiful and next thing I know it was like a lighting bolt hit me, the breath of God comes back in me and I’m on my feet. I really felt like I shot into the air but I’m standing on the earth and I tell my secretary, “Give me the flag.” I didn’t even know my wrist was fractured and I began to wave the flag wildly. They were watching and I was just waving this flag in front of their cameras just screaming, “Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!”
SID: But then a group of Chinese came to Israel and they had these big drums. How long did they play these drums?
KAREN: 72 hours.
SID: And at the end of 72 hours, and this wasn’t just drums. This was spiritual warfare at the highest level. What happened at the end of 72 hours?
KAREN: Well it was so wonderful because when they arrived they said, “Pastor Karen we know how to fight the dragon.” They just beat those drums for three days and prophesied and I felt it in the spirit. I just all of a sudden felt a flood of peace and I knew the stronghold had fallen.
SID: I believe that if you pray for people right now to be drenched in the love of God, it’s going to change your life. I believe that. Pray.
KAREN: Holy and righteous Father, we just thank you. We boldly come to the throne of grace and Lord we come for all of these out here that are so thirsty God. Lord, these that are out there that have never really known love God. Those that just need this unconditional love, to drench them, to pour over them, to transform their lives. Lord there’s so many out there God and I just ask God, your mercy triumphs judgment God. I ask that you just breakthrough today God and drench those that are out there God. They’ve waited so long for you God. Drench them with those rivers, those waterfalls of love God. I have a vision. I have a vision right now of a waterfall just coming your way. Just coming your way. Just waterfalls. Just rivers coming your way. This is your time for love.
SID: Some of you just experienced being drenched in God’s love and some of you don’t know or have intimate knowledge of God. This is your moment. You’ve felt his presence now say with your mouth, repeat after me. “Dear Jesus, forgive me of all of my sins. I’m sorry. I believe your love washes away my sins and makes me clean. And now that I’m clean Jesus come inside of me. I make you Lord of my life. Amen.”
SID: Karen you’ve been bathed, drenched, I love that word, drenched daily in the love of God. Were you fearful of the Mafia listening to your conversations, following you everywhere, trying to poison you at that point?
KAREN: No. I was laying on my bed meditating on just how beautiful and how good God was. I was no longer afraid of anything. I just wanted to keep being drenched by the love of God. The Lord gave me a vision and I saw the Lord and he had these very large clopping shears. He was cutting wires and I knew that it was finished, that the Mafia would never follow me again. That day there was a white van outside, a big guy got out of the van and he threw a football in the air and he said, “Touchdown.” And they took the wires off my house.
SID: I’ll tell you what if God is for you, who would dare be against you. Your son Blake prophesied to you one day and says, “Mom I think we should help the hungry, the starving, the needy people of the world.” That sounded right to you and then you started moving in miracles. Tell me about the lady in the park that was dying from cancer.
KAREN: Oh it was just wonderful. Her name was Mary and she had cancer all over her. I think she had seven cancers if I remember right. The doctors told her there was no hope for her, to not come back any more. I told her, I said, “Well I serve Jesus.” I said, “Cancer’s no problem for Jesus.” And I said, “Let me pray for you.” So I prayed for her and she said the next morning there was a lump on her and it was gone. She went back to the doctor and it was so funny, she said they bought a new machine, $100,000. They couldn’t figure out, thought there was something wrong with their equipment and she was giggling. She says, “Now they want me in there all the time. They want to know what I’m eating and everything else.” She was a poor woman, they wanted nothing to do with her. Now that the Lord was healing her and the cancer was getting smaller and smaller and smaller, she said they want her in there all the time. They’re asking her all these questions, “What are you doing? What are you eating?” I said, “Tell them Jesus.”
SID: So you get a call to go to Israel. Tell me briefly about that.
KAREN:I got the call to go to Israel the first time with the Samuel Howells Bible College in Wales. The second time I was, every time I heard the word Israel I would … The spirit of God would fall on me and it was like he gripped me and he told me, “You must go to Jerusalem.”
SID: And you do that?
KAREN: I did.
KAREN: Of course.
SID: And then you were directed to a refugee camp in Jericho and you started going through horrible persecution. What did they do to you? Because she’s a witness. Tell me the type of persecution you went through.
KAREN: Well when I moved into the refugee camp I was the only one in a Palestinian refugee camp. It was a militant refugee camp. You know the Israeli army tanks would come in and it was very edgy during the Iraqi war, so I’m in the camp talking about Jesus and they blew up my car, they threw Molotov’s through my windows, all kind of things happened. They talked about me on the mosque. It was war.
SID: Did they talk about you on the loudspeakers?
SID: What did they say about you?
KAREN: They said, “There’s an American here going to steal our children.” And they said, “She’s giving out food. Don’t go there.” And the more they spoke about me on the mosque the bigger the crowds would get around our house.
SID: Tell me about the Muslim man that had the incurable eye disease.
KAREN: I remember this guy. I mean he was just, we were trying to help him. He had 10 children. He came to me one time and his eyes were all infected and running and he said, “Mohammed’s power is greater than Jesus.” I thought, “Well have Mohammed take care of you.” The spirit of the Lord just gripped me, and said, “You pray for him and you tell him if Mohammed’s power is greater he will never be healed but if Jesus’s power is greater he’ll be healed immediately.” I prayed for him and the next day he came and his eyes were totally healed.
SID: Tell me about the last big fire bombing.
KAREN: This is fire number 7. Like 7 years of famine, 7 fires. The fire came in, they used 100 plastic chairs, put them up against the house and made an explosive that every window in the house blew out when the explosive went off. I heard Thomas scream, “Fire!”. The kids, I had two volunteers then, not many. Now we have closer to 50 but back then it was hard to have volunteers because the persecution was so high. They run out so I started crying out to the Lord. I said, “Lord, what? Around this mountain again? Buying more furniture again? The house all full of flames?” At that point I knew I could walk through fire and not get burned. At that point, I mean, I was convinced God would rescue me but I was tired of fires. And the Lord said to me, the Lord said, “If you would just lift your hands in the air and you will praise me and you will give me glory,” God said, “I’ll carry you into the next realm.” I told the kids, they were worshipers, I said, “Come on we’ve got to worship. We’ve got to praise the Lord.” We just lifted our hands in the air and began to praise. I just want to say if you’re out there right now and you’re just being crushed, every wall is caving in, if you would just give him glory, if you would just lift your hands and praise him, God is going to carry you through.
SID: You’re doing such a marvelous job there that you get called to Jerusalem. What did the Israeli army say to you?
KAREN: The Israeli army called me in after about 5 years. They said, “We’ve watched what you’ve done.” They said, “When you first come into Jericho we thought you were crazy.” But they said, “You’ve accomplished much.” And they said that terrorism has fallen in the city of Jericho. They said, “There’s 27 more refugee camps out there. We want you to move into Jerusalem and take an office in Jerusalem because you’re a partner with Israel.”
SID: Did they give you the office?
KAREN: No, no. We rented the office but they gave me a political status and they registered us sovereignly as an NGO.
SID: Alright, everything now, she’s at the height of her ministry. She has success in one Palestinian camp, Jericho. The Israeli army takes note of it and says, “We want you to open up an office and manage over 20 Palestinian camps. Do the same thing.” She’s so excited.
SID: You know, Katherine Ruonala is known for having intimacy with God. Katherine, if there’s one thing that you can help us with to achieve this intimacy with God, what is the key?
KATHERINE: You know, I believe it is fellowship with God through worship, through a life of worship. And worship is, I used to think of it as this strange conduct. Why would God want us to tell him how good he was all the time? But actually, worship is a Divine embrace. It’s like when I was a young mom and my little kids would see me when I came home, they’d put their arms up and go, “Up Mommy, up!” And I couldn’t resist. I’d want to scoop them up. And you know what, that’s what worship is like for us. We come to God and we say, “Up, Daddy! Help!” And he runs towards us, scoops us up, and just as we love on him, he loves on us, and he tells us we have to pray for supernatural help to handle how much love he wants to give us.
SID: Well is worship an event such as singing to God or is it a lifestyle for you?
KATHERINE: For me, worship is an absolutely lifestyle. It’s not just singing. It is actually living in adoration to God. Everything, the whole of creation is our invitation to respond to God in worship, to have fellowship with him and that’s where joy comes from. You could live joyful knowing that he loves you.
SID: You know, I believe if it didn’t release miracles, if it didn’t release favor, if it didn’t release healing, if it didn’t release solving family problems you would live a life of worship anyway.
KATHERINE: There’s nothing, nothing more glorious. We were created for worship.
SID: Would you worship God just for a moment. I want to watch you worship God. Would you?
KATHERINE: You know, I believe even as we talk about him we are worshiping him. The Holy Spirit, he leads us in revelation knowledge of him and then God manifests himself through us. As we are communing with him we get to manifest him.
SID: I feel his presence as you’re talking about him right now. Tell me a few miracles that have happened.
KATHERINE: You know, I believe that as we live this lifestyle of intimacy with God, God wants to show himself strong. We had a couple bring a little foster baby, 18 months old, to a meeting, and she, they think she had been shaken as an infant. Her eyes couldn’t focus. She had one eye would go this way, one eye go this way, and she had no sense of balance, had never walked as a result. And we just commanded her eyes in the name of Jesus to come straight, and in front of everybody, God just straightened her eyes. People gave their lives to the Lord on the spot.
SID: You know what’s so amazing, here we are in Jerusalem, and they have the Muslim prayers on loud speakers right now. I’m looking for the day that we have Christians worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the name of the one Messiah, the whole world, the Jew, Jesus, Yeshua Ha’Mashiach on loud speakers.
KATHERINE: Well you know, and when we see God do miracles it causes people to respond to God and worship. And I got called one night into the intensive care unit and a man had had a terrible accident. It was a logging accident. He had been in a tractor, rolled down a cliff and had huge gashes in his head. They had operated, but they couldn’t get all the mud and the gunk out of the deep gashes because it was just so deep and so dangerous. And so we worshiped God in the intensive care and just thanked God for healing. I felt the release of power and we just worshiped God there. I left. He was unconscious. We didn’t see anything, but I knew God had done something. Well the next day, the nurses said that they had never seen anything like it.
SID: What happened?
KATHERINE: As he was lying on his bed unconscious, suddenly the gashes in his head started spurting out all the dust and the mud, and the gunk all over his pillow, and he was completely healed. He didn’t even need an operation.
SID: Do you know something, when you have a lifestyle of worship of God there’s not enough that God can do for you. He wants to do so much more for you than he’s doing right now. But in fact, he wants to heal you right now. I know as a fact there are people with arthritic fingers, the pain is gone, and back and neck problems, what is God showing your right now? Pray for the sick.
KATHERINE: You know, I believe even as you’re watching God wants to touch you. We see so many people healed even as we pray when people are watching. So right now whatever you need, I believe the God who loves you more than life, even if you don’t know him, he wants to make himself real to you. He loves in a way that is practical. So right now in Jesus’ name, I’m going to pray, Holy Spirit, Lord, whatever the miracles they need touch their bodies. I thank you, Lord, for eyes being opened. I thank you, Father, for a brain tumor right now disappearing in the name of Jesus. And Lord, I pray above all that everyone watching, everyone hearing the sound of my voice, Lord, that they would have the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of you, the eyes of their understanding would be enlightened, God, that they would personally know you, that they would experience you and find you, and feel you, Lord, that you would be so real to them because you don’t want to be a concept to them. You don’t want to be just a theology. You want to be their friend. Lord, make yourself real to them. Open the eyes of their heart as they cry out and say, “help.” If you’re watching just say, “Help, Lord, I want to know you and I thank you, Lord.” You delight to him.
SID: There is something going on right now in the invisible world. There is a flood of liquid love coming out to you from Katherine’s heart of worship. There are rivers of living water pouring out to you right now. If you have never said with your mouth, God, forgive me of my sins, I’m so sorry. I believe the blood of Jesus washes them away and now that I am clean, I ask Jesus to live inside of me. Give me a new heart, a new spirit. Become my Lord. Use your own words. It doesn’t have to be my words. Just “Jesus help” was enough to get it done for me. But this is your moment to have experiential knowledge with the Living God and live a life of worship. Yes.
SID: Katherine, a word, when I think about you I think about two things. I think about miracles and someone that has such intimacy with God that the miracles are natural. To you, what does intimacy with God mean?
KATHERINE: You know, the Bible talks about us becoming one with him. Because of the cross we have the privilege of actually being one with him and his desire, the joy that was set before him was that we would fellowship with him. That is we could be real with him, talk with him and hear what he’s saying, and tell him everything that’s going on in our hearts. You know, I believe if we learn how to really lean on him and not try to work out things with our own understanding, but to lean on him, to involve him in every aspect of our lives then he makes our path straight. And I tell you what, Christ in us, he has big dreams.
SID: You know something that I’m, from the people I interview and my study of the Bible, of course, there’s something called being filled with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues or supernatural languages. But I hear so little and yet when I interview people that move in extraordinary miracles they have had what the Bible calls a baptism of fire. Tell me about the time you had a baptism of fire.
KATHERINE: Well you know, I would read people like Maria Woodworth-Etter and John G. Lake, and Smith Wigglesworth, and their experiences with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And I used to think to myself maybe I missed something. I received the gift of tongues when I was about 13, and I’d pray in tongues, and that’s powerful. But I wasn’t doing the stuff that they were doing, and I thought what have I missed. And I began to think, well Lord, you said you were going to come and baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire. So I just began to press in and contend with God, saying, Lord, I want a baptism of fire. And I tell you, God just began to do such a deep work on my life. I was forever changed and his power now, he manifests himself in amazing miracles.
SID: Describe a specific moment in your history and what happened with this baptism in fire.
KATHERINE: Well I used to go and rent videos, when I was mom with little kids, of people who moved in miracles. I’d watch Kathryn Kuhlman and different ones. And one day the video man that I was renting these videos from, he prayed for me. And as I walked off the bus I got in the car and suddenly the power of God came on me in such an amazing way. I shook and I laughed, and I cried, and you know, from that moment on things have been different. The Lord, he comes with such power and such holy boldness, and I believe that’s what the baptism of fire is.
SID: Now out of curiosity, were you always as bold as you are now?
KATHERINE: Sid, I was one of the most self-conscious and insecure people that you could have met, but it’s the perfect love of God. It’s in intimacy with him that his love casts out fear. You see, if we’re not receiving what we need from him we’re going to be trying to get it from everybody else. We’re going to be looking at them and trying to get them to make us feel better. We’ll be afraid to do things in case we don’t get our needs for affirmation met. But when you’re receiving daily from the one who speaks to you and loves you more than you can absolutely even emotionally handle, his desire is to fill you to overflowing so that when you are interacting with people you’re no longer needing something from them. You’re overflowing with a love that empowers you and casts out fear.
SID: You know, I’m reminded of a worldly saying: You’re so heavenly minded, you’re no earthly good. I call that a lie.
KATHERINE: I think it’s ridiculous.
SID: If you become so heavenly minded that’s the only way you can be earthly good.
KATHERINE: Well I think unless you are then you’re conscious about yourself. But if you are absolutely caught up with this one who loves you more than life, and I pray from Ephesians 3. There’s a prayer in there that I pray: Lord, that you would strengthen me with might so I could understand and know the love of God that passes knowledge. I need supernatural strength to actually handle that amount of love that he wants to give me. And as I receive that, that’s what empowers me to no longer be worried about myself and I get to see what he wants. I get to hear his heart and I am empowered to be as he is in the earth, which is really exciting.
SID: You recently got back from Nicaragua. Tell me, I mean, that is a country with needs. What happened?
KATHERINE: It was a very big meeting where many, many people came. They gave out free tickets to the prostitutes of the city and we saw such astounding miracles. I mean, the first miracle we did was open a deaf ear and then after that, suddenly the faith in the room was so high. I began to call out words of knowledge. There was a lady who had a tumor on her neck, another lady with a brain tumor who walked in unable to walk properly because of the tumor, someone with a leg significantly shorter than the other to the point that she had to hem her pants. I gave these words of knowledge not knowing anything about any of them being there, and they all came up and testified that the tumor on the neck had disappeared. The lady who couldn’t walk because of the brain tumor ran up the stairs to testify. The other lady got down and showed us how her leg had grown out and she was now able to walk properly.
SID: And what I find is when people start saying God is moving and God is not a respecter of persons, that means that if he’ll do it for one person, he’ll do it for everyone. I’ll tell you what, when we come back I want you to pray for two things. I want you to pray for miracles and I want you to pray for the most important thing. To God it’s the most important thing that you yourself have your own intimacy with God because it is from this intimacy that the Messiah says all things are possible. So don’t you tell me, “but”. I tell you God says all things are possible. We’ll be right back.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I’m in the most supernatural land in the world, Jerusalem, Israel, the place that Jesus came at his first appearance, the place that Jesus is about ready to return, and the most important thing for you to know is you can have yourself experiential knowledge with God. God wants you to have experiential knowledge. And my guest is supernaturally equipped by God to help you just have experiential knowledge with God, but she operates in what is known as creative miracles, Katherine Ruonala. I’m going to tell you something. Get ready for your experience with the Living God.
You know the Wuest’s translation of the Bible says, “This is eternal life that you might have experiential knowledge of the Messiah.” Katherine, I don’t know how it happened, but at 12, your heart said, I’ve got to have more than religion. What did you pray?
KATHERINE: You know, I believe you need to be, we need to be real with God. And I was at a youth camp. Everyone was worshiping God, lifting their hands, and I just got real with him. I said, “Lord, I believe in you, but I can’t see you and I don’t know you, and it’s really hard to worship somebody I can’t see and I don’t know.” And I just said, help, and you know, right there in the middle of worship the Lord made himself real to me. I can’t explain it any other way than I was blind but now I see. He made himself real and from that day on I was different.
SID: But you know, Katherine, many times people have an experience with God, but then they get sabotaged along the way, called life. It’s like the devil knows something good is in your future and he tries to sabotage you. So the first two people that Katherine prays for that are dying from cancer, what happened to them?
KATHERINE: Sid, both of them died. And I tell you, I was so discouraged. I actually thought, you know, Lord, I love you, but I think I’m going to put this miracle healing thing in the too hard basket because it didn’t seem to, it seemed to be too risky to me.
SID: Besides that, you know what, you can get by without the supernatural.
SID: The words she said is true. It’s too risky and most of you don’t understand the definition of biblical faith is spelled R-I-S-K, risk.
KATHERINE: That is so true. It’s so true. But you know, as I was just putting this whole thing in the too hard basket, suddenly I had a vision. It was an open vision and the Lord spoke to me, and he said, “Katherine, you must believe.” You know, God’s ways are better than our ways and he said, “Lay hands on the sick and you’ll see them recover. Heal the sick.” And this was the way Jesus did it. He performed miracles and people then would listen as he told them the Good News.
SID: You know, this may be hard for you and maybe hard for you to believe, but when I first started praying for people, I had met Kathryn Kuhlman, I saw all these miracles, do you know the first at least 200 people I prayed for no one was healed, no one. One person died on me. The elders of the congregation said, “I don’t like the way Sid is praying for so many people.” But something in me would not give up.
KATHERINE: Well you know, I believe if you don’t change the subject, if you don’t quit, you win. And now we have seen so many people with cancer, incurable diseases healed.
SID: But this is ridiculous. Let me explain something to you. Jesus said, “You’ll do the same things I have done and even greater.” You told me that you absolutely expect God to heal at least one deaf person when you speak. You really have to have faith.
KATHERINE: Absolutely. Well you know, the Holy Spirit, it’s the Holy Spirit who does it. And pretty much every town I go into one of the first miracles he does is someone with a completely deaf ear gets their ear open.
SID: All right, what about something really amazing like someone with no eardrum? How do you get someone healed with no eardrum?
KATHERINE: I’ve seen four.
SID: Tell me one. Tell me about one.
KATHERINE: Four of those. Just recently in South Korea we had two people, one lady was born without an eardrum, instantly got her hearing restored. Another lady at the age of six had had a terrible infection that didn’t get treated and her eardrum was completely deformed and damaged. She had no hearing whatsoever. The doctors have just confirmed she has a perfectly formed eardrum. She instantly heard. God does this and then as soon as people can recognize, wow, that person couldn’t hear, now they can, they release their faith and amazing miracles happen without hands even being laid on.
SID: Now you teach that worship is the key to everything in life to the supernatural, to miracles, to solving family problems, to solving financial problems, just living this life in this crazy thing called life. Why is this worship so important to you?
KATHERINE: Well you know, how do you trust somebody you don’t know? When you know him, when you know how good he is and how much he loves us then it’s easy to trust him. Because I know him, because I know his love for me, his love for people, because I know his will is to bring life and healing, then I’m not putting my trust in a concept or an intellectual idea or even a theology. My trust is in somebody I know, God himself.
SID: When we come back I want to find out how you were baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Sid: We want everywhere to receive the manifestation from the invisible world to the natural world of your physical healing and I’m going to believe that many of you in the next two days are going to have physical healings. And I have on the phone Sandra Kennedy and she’s the Director of the Whole Life Ministries in Augusta, Georgia. Jesus literally she had a visit from Him and He showed her how to set up the healing schools which are nothing more than teaching people how to appropriate what God has given us in the natural realm. And if you’ve been listening all of this week you know I’ve been asking some pretty tough questions. Sandra there are many people that say all you have to do is confess God’s word to be healed. There are other people that say that’s a big crock, that’s a big waste of time what’s the truth about confessing God’s word can you get healed by doing this?
Sandra: Well you can’t get healed just by saying it no. It has to be a believing once you believe it it has to get down inside of you.
Sid: Well how do you believe it?
Sandra: Well the Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. So that’s why at the Healing Center here we teach you…first of all most people don’t know that it’s God’s will to heal. That’s because the number 1 enemy to healing.
Sid: They know that God can heal.
Sandra: Can heal.
Sid: But they don’t know if He will heal or if He will heal them.
Sandra: Right and so if you take the word the first time we do that is to show you in the word out of 3 witnesses out of Isaiah, Matthew and Peter. The Bible says “Out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let a thing be established.” So I pulled out 3 witnesses in the Bible who state up front that it’s God’s will to heal. And then if I can get you to say that it’s God’s will then you begin to confess what God says about you once you believe it. Now remember faith comes by hearing so you’ve got to hear and hear and hear and hear what God says. See what we do Sid we go to the doctor we get the doctors report and everything the doctor says is a fact I mean and it’s a fact you’re going to die unless something intervenes there. And so I don’t say ignore the fact I say that the word of God is truth and you take the truth is higher than a fact.
Sid: Well how about the people that go around saying “I don’t have cancer, I don’t have heart disease, I don’t have high blood pressure the Bible says that so I don’t. What would you say?
Sandra: Well I would say…first of all I’d talk to them a little bit because it wouldn’t take about 2 minutes to find out whether they are just parroting something they heard or whether they’re really in faith. I would say that I believe that I believe I receive my healing was the way the way that I would put it.
Sid: Would you deny your symptoms?
Sandra: I wouldn’t let my symptoms rule me I would deny no. I would simply say you know I’m having a little struggle here but I want you to know up front that I believe that I received my healing based on the word of God.
Sid: Would you say that if it hadn’t become a Rhema to you because of God you believe it but it hasn’t become a reality inside of you would you still say that before that happened?
Sandra: I would but I don’t think just saying it makes it happen I believe you have to do as God told Joshua we have to meditate on the word of God and listen and listen and listen it’s the whole center of the heart of the healing center. That you hear and you hear and you hear it from this teacher and that teach, from this angle from that angle until it becomes such a reality to you until you can say it with assurance “I believe I receive my healing based on the word of God.” And once you really do believe it you will I promise you you will see manifestations of healing begin to happen in your body. But again there a lot of people that are in mental assent a lot of people…
Sid: Explain mental assent.
Sandra: Well mental assent is just saying well I see it in the word and you’ve prepared me and your acting religious and you’re just saying a whole bunch of things because you’ve been taught to say it. But when you’re quiet and your alone by yourself and if I was a family member or I was a fly on the wall listening to you I would hear you say when you’re not around certain people I hear you say “I don’t know if I’m going to live or not, I don’t know if this is going to work, I don’t really know things get worse for me than better.” And when start that way that automatically tells me that you are not in faith. When you start with all of the negative stuff and you say one thing to one group of people and another thing to another group you know. What you say to the preacher and those that you want to praise God I had it but then when you are with family and this friend and you know I don’t really know I better get my will ready.
Sid: Or you want sympathy.
Sandra: Yeah and you are like I mean you are not walking in faith I’ll assure you you are not walking in faith when you’re doing all of that. Real faith and once you have it again faith comes by hearing you don’t just hear it one time faith comes by hearing and in the tape series that you mentioned and in the book that you mentioned. I’ve tried to help you decide very easily whether you’re in real faith or not or whether you’re just playing games in your minds.
Sid: And the wonderful thing is once you’ve nailed someone you show them how they can change their thinking.
Sandra: Right because once you can really believe and it all goes back again to the bigness of God. It always goes back to how big is your God? Is He can He do this? Do you know…do you understand His love for you, can you understand that He’s already done it? Are you excited about Him do you trust Him enough with your life, do you trust Him with Your health? Do you trust Him and even when you’re going to the doctor do you trust Him to be the surgeon, do you trust Him to be the one in the operating room? Do you trust Him when you take just medicine? Do you pray over it, do you believe God that this is going to do what it’s supposed to do? Do you thank Him and praise Him? See real faith praises God, it praises in the middle of the pain, in the middle of the problem you still praise Him for what He’s done in your life.
Sid: Where the rubber meets the road Sandra is playing with her dog and what did the dog do to you?
Sandra: Well he bite off it is a sheltie and I stooped down and she jumped up. Her tooth grabbed the side of my nose and her mouth closed on my lip and literally ripped off on the floor ripped off my lip. You know 3/8’s of an inch exactly.
Sid: So what’s the first thing that went through your mind when you realized what had happened?
Sandra: Well blood was everywhere and I didn’t know exactly what had happened and I thought…the very first thing that went through my mind was “Oh thank You Lord, thank You that you know I thank You and that this thing is going to be alright.” And then I immediately called and I went to the doctor, went to the emergency room. And I didn’t understand the extent of the problem all of this just happened last November so this hasn’t happened not long ago. So when I got to the emergency room they called a plastic surgeon. A plastic surgeon came in and he said to me that this so bad that we cannot really fix this so that it can look good. You know a plastic surgeon cannot correct this because you have literally lost the lip. And matter of fact he said to me Sid “If you were to take a nickel and put a nickel on the side of your nose on the left side of my nose and lay it beside of my lip that’s how much lip I actually lost.
Sandra: The side of a nickel; I mean ripped off. So I went…and when he said that you are going to have to go in surgery well I immediately said to him “Come here I want to pray for you.” I’d never laid eyes on him before. I said “It’s my lip it’s my face; and I’m going to pray for you to know what to do and how to handle this.” Well he came and I took his hand and I prayed for him. I wake up in the emergency room I mean in the operating room hearing him tell the nurses that normally I would have come in here and would have grafted the bottom lip up over the top lip and sewn the lip together for at least 3 weeks but for some reason I did not do that. From my point of view it was God, my prayer God that prevented him from doing that. And when I came out of the surgery he said “You will take 3 to 6 more surgeries to even…he said it will be like a cleft lip and you will be deformed basically.” And I said to him and now this is my confession I said to him “No I will not. I will never have another surgery my God will fix this lip, my God will heal it and put it back in the right place and will rebuild that lip.”
Sid: Okay Sandra I was with you recently.
Sid: I looked specifically at your lip I don’t see any problem. How much plastic surgery did you have?
Sandra: I’ve had none.
Sid: How did it heal? I mean they even said that plastic surgery you will still have a cleft lip.
Sandra: I’ve never had one… it has only been 8 months I’ve never had anything else done to it. What I did was what I teach. I took the word of God I began to speak to my lip and I began to say “By the stripes of Jesus I am healed lip I command you to move I command you.” I lay hands on it every single day I anoint it with oil and “I command you to reform yourself and to grow in the name of Jesus I command you to do it.” And again you saw me and when I went back to him he kept saying and as a matter of fact this is another point he’d pick up this big book with all of these pictures with cleft lips in it and he said “I want to show you this.” And I say “No I will not look at it.”
Sandra: And he said I want to show you what we’re dealing with.” I said “No I will not put that picture in my mind I will not look at it.” I said “What I will do is I’ll go back to my house I will find every lovely picture of me smiling that I have and I will put those pictures up and those are what I did I’ve never looked at that book and I never had any more surgery and you would have to look mighty close to see that it happened.
Sid: I looked close (Laughing).
Sandra: That wasn’t even a full smile Sid it would take a full year before I could have a full smile.
Sandra: You saw me a couple of months ago and I had a full smile.
Sid: I have on the telephone Sandra Kennedy I’m speaking to her at The Whole Life Ministries by way of telephone in Augusta, Georgia. Sandra you were telling me on yesterday’s broadcast it sound wonderful before you started Whole Life Ministries you had a visitation from the Lord 3 as a matter of fact. He showed you exactly what you’d do step by step things you had no way of knowing. Now that you sit back and see the center you see the teaching center that you have you only allow incurables to come there for the full time ministries. You’re getting even when you go out to minister 60 to 80% of the people get healed. You’re seeing this all happen now how do you feel? I mean you’ve see the vision and now see the vision transferred from the invisible realm to the visible realm.
Sandra: Well overwhelmed overwhelmed at the mercy of god the goodness of God and yet very excited, excited of how wonderful God is. I love knowing that God is really God today do you understand what I’m saying?
Sid: For sure there’s nothing more exciting for me than to see a miracle, to see 1000’s of people saved. There’s nothing more exciting for me than to see God show up.
Sandra: To see that He is still God He’s on the throne, He’s in the healing business, He’s in the saving deliverance business and He’s wonderful. He’s not mad with us He’s on our side He’s just a marvelous God. And to see that in action and see it working out in the church and here at the church we have not only do we have a healing center where people are coming across the nation and across the world are coming to our healing center. It’s only been in operation for about a year and a half or a little better than a year and a half. And the kinds of healing Sid we’re asking at this point that people that the doctors say they cannot do anything else with you you have a life threatening disease.
Sid: Tell me about what happens with…alright tell me about some people with cancer that have shown up at your doorstep.
Sandra: Oh my goodness this one it just blows me out of the saddle every time I think about it. There was a lady who was in Hospice program sent to Hospice to die. And cancer by the way is the number 1 percentage wise of cures that we have.
Sid: What type of cancer did this woman get that she had to get Hospice?
Sandra: This woman had bone cancer and it was in all parts of her body and to make a very long story short within this kept building we kept teaching her, teaching her and teaching her and it appeared that nothing was happening. You know a lot of people get discouraged they want…miracles are instantaneous but healing are progressive and people are ready for an instantaneous healing but yet when we go to the doctor we don’t get instantaneous healing we get progressive healing.
Sid: To me a healing means time a miracle is instant that’s the way I separate it.
Sandra: But see that’s exactly right but what happens is you have noticed a lot of people that they want God to do everything instantaneous even though they don’t require that of the doctor.
Sandra: And so we kept ministering to this woman the word of God. Again the heart of all that we do is taking the word of God and letting the word work in your life. There’s not anything on the face of the earth more powerful than the word of God. I mean it will work and it will work all of the time. And we kept pumping the word in this lady and pumping the word in this lady. And within finally a doctor, her husband and her children came and said to her “Momma go on home to be with the Lord we release you to go home with the Lord.” And they all left and walked out of the door and left her in the hospice bed and when they left she turned to the nurse and said “I learned at the healing center that I could live and not die and my God is in healing business and what He did for me 2000 years ago still works today I want you to get me out of this bed and set me in that chair.” And the nurse said “I can’t do that if I pick you up your bones will break.” And the lady said “They’re my bones and I’m not going to die anyway I believe that God has started a work in my body.” To make a long story short they picked her up and moved her. This lady today is cancer free back on the job working.
Sid: And what about the ones that are not healed?
Sandra: Well the ones that are not healed we teach them to get ready to meet Jesus. We make sure people get saved every single day in the healing center. We make sure that at least they know that they are saved and that they are ready to meet God. We make…
Sid: Kathryn Kuhlman used to say the thing that would break her heart is to see not that it was wonderful the ones that were healed but to see people in wheelchairs that came believing that they were going to be healed and then go back in the same wheelchair. How do you handle that?
Sandra: Well that is that’s heart breaking at times what it does for you you want to go in there and jerk on and act like you can do it but I can’t heal anybody I can’t heal gnat I can’t heal a fly I’m not the healer. Jesus is the healer but Sid I’m a firm believer that if you get past religion. I believe that religion is probably the number l thing that stops us from moving and accepting what God has for us and I believe religion gets in our way. And if I can get you passed religion and get you to believing and trusting God I really believe that if you’ll give me enough time, and that’s really the criteria for the healing center is time. And by the way we insist that people keep plugged in with their medical doctor.
Sid: Now why do you do that?
Sandra: Because when you are healed the doctor will see it he will know it. We don’t tell people to throw away medicine, we don’t tell people to not take their therapy or whatever they’re going through. We do many times to ask the doctor to go and run new tests if they know that they have been healed. And people know you can get a knowing inside of you and when you know that you are healed not based on how you feel, not based on what it looks like but a knowing inside of you. Sid that’s true with people who are when you get saved.
Sid: Now let me ask you a question I’m really pondering this thing Sandra. I just read a book by Smith Wigglesworth and he had kidney stones I mean horrible condition I mean here the greatest healing ministry the world has ever seen and he’s in agony of pain and it wasn’t for a month it wasn’t for 6 months. The doctor said “Well look all we have to do is operate on you and we can solve this problem.” And he said “No I’m believing that my manifestation will come without a doctor completely by God.” After a period of suffering for years which could have been alleviated by going to a doctor he was healed. I don’t understand why someone like him didn’t receive it instantly.
Sandra: God knows I don’t know.
Sandra: Laughing I really don’t know but what I try to do is build people’s faith.
Sid: Well you teach in medical schools.
Sandra: Yes and the doctors in this city refer people to us and we have doctors in my church who are on our healing teams and who are part of the healing center nurses and all across the medical profession they’re very much involved in what we are doing. But what I tell people is live and not die; get inside of you that you will live and not die and give God glory. And if you need to go to the doctor and you need to have surgery then go but don’t go out of faith make sure that you’re in faith.
Sid: Now if God tells you to go then you have faith that the doctor will heal you is that what you’re saying?
Sandra: I mean you’re a believer and make sure that you have prayed and make sure that when you’re taking your medicine if you need medicine. Again Sid if I need medicine I’m going to take it, if I need a doctor I’m going to go. I don’t believe that the doctors are against…I don’t believe that the doctors are doing one thing and the God’s doing another I believe that they’re working together. And so I do not in any way suggest people do not go to doctors but I do suggest that you learn to use your faith even when it comes to the medical profession use your faith. Pray over your medicine your medicine say all of these evil side affects no you pray and put your faith out there. When you take the medicine it’s going to work for good in your and all of this evil stuff is going to come to you and what we try to do is teach how to develop your faith to try to receive faith.
Sid: Now you did not you told me you don’t have the actually statistics but on the meetings where you go out you see about 60 to 80% people healed you have statistics but at your healing center where you at this point your only taking in people with incurable diseases are you seeing high percentages of those people manifest.
Sandra: Very high percentages. I mean we’ve had people who’ve had stokes gone back and when they take tests they can’t even find that they have even had a stroke. We’re seeing all kind of cancers, cancer of the throat, bone cancer, cancer in the blood, breast cancer, colon cancer you name it.
Sid: You’re seeing tumors fall off of people.
Sandra: We’re seeing tumors fall off of people, we’ve had blind eyes open, deaf ears open, dead ears pop open. We’ve had people on kidney dialysis and they’ve come off of the dialysis. We’ve had people with diabetes be totally completely cured of it. I’m not talking about anything but the word of God.
Sid: You know I’ve seen people that get into alternative medicine and I might add I’m ready for regular medicine and I’m for alternative medicine but I see people get in it and I shouldn’t be a judge but it almost appears that they have…with the faith that they have in the alternative medicine if they have the same faith in the word of God they’d get their healing.
Sandra: Oh yes I agree it’s seeing. The word most people don’t even know what the word teaches. Most people don’t even know that the Bible proclaims that on the cross of Calvary that Jesus not only took care of our sins but died for our healing. Most people don’t even know that.
Sid: But most people I mean you really nailed me in a couple of areas things I knew but they…
Sid: My guest by way of telephone at her center in Augusta, Georgia, that’s the Whole Life Ministries Healing Center is Sandra Kennedy. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that she was the first woman in the nation to be ordained Southern Baptist Church. But she almost got kicked out because she’d had a call since 6 years of age by God to pray for the sick. And in the dormitories every one of them that was getting sick she was praying for and they were getting healed but that was against their theology. She did graduate but they did force her out of the dorms by the way. And she bumped into a guy by the name of Harold Bradeson and he prayed for a bunch of people to get baptized in the Holy Spirit she was disappointed she wasn’t. She walked up to him and said “How come?” He said “You have a spirit of rejection.” She remembered her parents had been divorced at a young age in the name of Jesus he broke that she still didn’t pray in tongues. And one day she’s driving her car and all of a sudden what happened Sandra?
Sandra: All of a sudden I was caught up in the Spirit and in the throne-room of God and I get in what some people would call an open vision. Now I was caught up and I saw whom I knew to be God the Father but I never saw His face. I saw from like the bosom down and I saw over in the corner a small child 4, 5, 6 year old and I recognized it to be myself. And I’m watching this and He reached over and clapped his hands like a daddy would clap his hand for a child to come jump in His arms. And that young child who was me went and jumped in the arms of my Father my heavenly Father. And when that happened it was no longer that child it then became me and I began to speak in tongues. And I mean I spoke I believe I spoke in every tongue known to man. I’ll never forget it I mean I just talked and talked and talked in my language kept changing and I talked and talked. And then the next thing I know I’m sitting in front at my house in my car in front of the garage door which happened to be 22 miles away from the incident.
Sid: Now do you believe the Bible talks about being translated in the Spirit? Philip was translated in the Spirit do you think that was what happened to you?
Sandra: Either that or either again what people call like an open vision where you go of course that was exactly what I thought when I had the same similar experience when I started the church here Whole Life Ministry the same identical type thing happened to me. As a result of that I had was driving outside of Dallas, Texas and was caught up and was standing with the Lord again I don’t know who drove the car I was coming down I-20 the car was no longer there and I was standing with Jesus looking at the front of a building that said “Whole Life Ministry” with Jesus looking at it.
Sid: Now of course that building it did not it did not exist at that time.
Sandra: No it did not it did not exist and He took me by the hand walked me through it showed me the components of the ministry, told me what to do and what not to do. How to set up boards of the church and all different kind of things that I knew nothing in the world about and I was at that point wasn’t even Spirit filled when this happened.
Sid: Now you know the Bible says “Jesus only did what He saw His heavenly Father doing.” I imagine that’s the way Jesus did everything He was instructed and just acted out what He was instructed that’s the way it should be. That is so wonderful…so you saw this whole thing. Just of curiosity from the time you had that vision of having this whole center and how to set it up and being told how to do it did you have a fight to get to happen?
Sandra: (Laughing) It took me 10 years to act on it as a matter of fact I had that vision 3 times. Because of my background, because of me being Southern Baptist, because I’m here in southern Georgia Southern Baptist was birthed here in Augusta, Georgia. I had never met another woman minister, I did not know of a woman minister. And the 3 different times of degrees that I have from Southwestern Seminary I had never heard about Aimee Semple McPherson, I had never heard you know I had seen maybe something on TV about Kathryn Kuhlman but I’d never known of any woman minister it’s pathetic but I hadn’t I never knew. So in my mind I could not do this thing and it was one of the greatest battles and there were people I knew who to ask were my friends who were Southern Baptist and the pastors who I knew who were Southern Baptist of course they all told me I couldn’t.
Sid: So you had a bunch of Job’s friends.
Sandra: Yes I did (Laughing.)
Sid: And so it really toke you 10 years.
Sandra: Ten years.
Sid: You think you could have started it the next year if you had moved?
Sandra: I believe if I did not have so much religion in me. I believe if I did not have so much so much of man’s interpretation of God’s word in me. If I had just had the faith to just move on it without asking everybody and asking everybody’s opinion but just doing what God had said and realizing the God’s not a man that He should lie and just walk on what He had done in my life I believe in all honesty I could have started it so many years earlier.
Sid: Now at that time did the Lord…He showed you the future as to what it would be but what did He tell you did He tell you what ultimately what your ministry would be?
Sandra: He just simply when He pointed out again He name it “Whole Life…W-h-o-l-e Life Ministry and said basically that the church could teach the fullness of God. We should minister to the whole man spirit soul and body.
Sid: Now why did you have such extraordinary miracles happen and such high percentage of people being healed at your place?
Sandra: Well I think there it’s pretty clear because it’s so scriptural if we teach the word of God we do not try to give you our opinion. All we do is take you and walk you through the Bible and let you decide for yourself what the Bible has to say about healing. And so all we really do is I take this wonderful book and I do my very best to make you fall in so love with Jesus that He is so big in your life that you see that He so loves you and the goodness of God that it becomes almost a normal response to say “Well my goodness I see where He wants me well, I see the provision that He’s made for me.” Sid I’m convinced that this ignorance of the word of God and religious teaching that make us miss the simple things of the gospel.
Sid: And now I’ve been looking over some of the things that have happened there such as 6 brain dead individuals that have come back to life that were healed. That’s brain dead 6, 7 women with total hysterectomies have gotten pregnant. Tell me about this woman whose eye was disconnected and the eye was dead tell me about that.
Sandra: This was a woman that had the eye died well she had an eye transplant and then the transplanted eye died and became disconnected from the socket. This woman when we prayed for her and told her about the word of God I did not know what was totally wrong with her eye. I assumed that she had glaucoma or that she had cataract something I did not know all of the information that we now know. We just prayed and believed God and taught the word of God about healing. And the woman then began to shout and scream and carry on and then call forth colors there were banners around and she began to say blue, green, gold, yellow and began to red.
Sid: Now let me say the transplanted eye was disconnected and you didn’t connect it back all you did was just pray.
Sandra: All I did was pray and out of the dead disconnected transplanted eye she began to see.
Sid: Is anything impossible for God?
Sandra: Not a thing!
Sid: I mean you really believe that.
Sandra: I believe that with all of my heart.
Sid: So how come I know people you you know people everyone listening to us knows people that were strong in faith, believed God’s word, had good teaching and did die?
Sandra: Well you know I don’t know that I know all of the answers there’s some things that I can’t give an answer to but I do know this; I know that you can have faith and have tremendous faith in your life and not understand faith for healing and I think that’s very important. I have people say to me go visit so and so in the hospital and say to me up front these are wonderful Christians and they really have a lot of faith, they really believe God and they know that God is the healer and understand what I said “They know that God is a healer and they know that God is a healer would you go to them and talk to them and pray for them?” And many times I go and what I find out is yes they do know, yes they are wonderful people, yes they do love God, yes they are born again and yes they do know that God can do it. But they don’t have the assurance in their heart that God has already done it that’s a major difference.
Sid: I’ve been listening to your 2 audio cassette series titled “Genuine or Fake (F-A-K-E) Faith” and you nailed things to such a degree. I understand that that’s required listening for your healing teams and then you wrote a booklet called “Preparation for a Move of God.” Do you really believe that there will be a move of God?
Sandra: Oh I believe it I believe we’re already in it. I believe we’re in it you know the Bible talks always about remnants that God talks about remnant. And God deals with a remnant and I believe that there’s a remnant throughout this nations who’s hungry for God. I mean they all ready to lay down all religious teachings…
Sid: But I don’t see how most people can be satisfied where they’re at; if someone tells me they’re satisfied I’ll tell you there’s something wrong with them.
Sandra: I agree 100% I mean there’s such a hunger to see and to know God better and to understand Him and I believe with all of my heart that the church should be the powerhouse of God. I believe the church should be the stronghold of community; I think the church should be the authority center of the community. That we should be the place that understands what living a godly life is about. We should be the place when people are in need…I’m not talking about financial time to get all of your bills paid on but I’m talking about wanting to be fulfilled wanting to find your destiny, wanting to find your purpose knowing the blessings of God, the goodness of God. The church is the place to come we should be the powerhouse of God. There’s not anything too big for God and the church should be holding up that banner. We should be holding elbows with the community.
Sid: Sandra I’m sorry we’re out of time.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to care for orphans, widows, poor and oppressed. We want everyone to care for these helpless people like God cares for these people like God cares for these people. I was telling on yesterdays broadcast we’re making available this week a booklet perhaps the most important book that Derrick Prince has ever written it’s called “Who Cares for Orphans and Widows and the Poor and the Oppressed? God Does.” Do We? And he brings out truths that I just never seen before that Old Covenant Prophets the New Covenant Prophets with a heart of God. I believe that there are many listening that are calling out to God saying “God give me a ministry.” I believe that as you read this book God’s going to give you a ministry we’re such a blessed country. And if there’s ever been a time to meet this mandate it’s now. …I’m speaking to a couple that took this message seriously Joan and Bob Nast. And they had a vision from God they had such a supernatural burden for children that were either seriously ill or dying. And God directed them they bought a farm and they’ve had 1000’s of children AIDS victims, seriously ill children and they give them joy. I mean more important than joy I mean these children see angels. Many are healed, many experience the presence of God coming from every background imaginable. So one day Joan you are traveling with Benny Hinn’s Ministry because you love to see miracles you love to see people saved. But one meeting in 1995 there were a lot of witches present and they were praying against the meeting. And I imagine you didn’t think much of it but what happened 5 days later?
Joan: Well I got deathly sick leaving the crusade so sick that I could smell the dampness almost the death smell in the taxi cab. I was literally starting to throw up, Bobby had to carry me up to the hotel; I stayed up all night on the bathroom floor deathly deathly ill.
Bobby: It just came on her instantly.
Joan: And he knew that this was spiritual even though we weren’t that knowledgeable about it. I stayed sick for 3 days very very sick. By the time we got back to Florida all of a sudden coming out of the shower we noticed this huge lump on my breast within 5 days of the crusade. We immediately called the surgeon, no my gynecologist and at first he didn’t think it was cancer I went for a mammogram and when I came out from the mammogram the technician said to me “Oh my god you have cancer and you better get to a surgeon immediately but look at this it’s an actually shape of a witch on your mammogram,” and there surely was. Long story short fear panic came over us in the beginning and we went to Benny Hinn’s Church and…
Sid: Did it really look like a witch?
Sid: I mean I’m still thinking about that.
Joan: Yes in fact there’s a magazine we’ve been on television with it but there’s a magazine one of Benny Hinn’s he put a picture of my mammogram in there and it went out to 250,000 people. And no one ever even questioned that this is a definite shape of a witch exactly where the cancer was.
Sid: Hm. So what happened next?
Joan: Well I believe that the miracles started by the word of God getting down in my spirit. We went up to a service up in Orlando at Benny’s church and Lester Sumrall was there. And actually I think it was one of his last meetings.
Bob: It was it was his last.
Joan: It was the very last time he spoke because he died shortly after that. Benny said “For all of you people who will listen to the Holy Spirit at this moment I’m not taking up an offering for our church I’m taking up an offering to feed the hungry. Now you know that Lester Sumrall feeds the hungry around the world and so whoever will listen to the Holy Spirit come up and give to that ministry not ours.” We immediately got to our feet and ran forward and God spoke to the both of us that we must plant a $1000. Well we sat down.
Sid: At that point how difficult was $1000 to plant?
Joan: It was difficult, it was difficult.
Bob: It was very difficult at that time.
Joan: It was very difficult at that time.
Bob: You just know that you know that you know that you just had to do it just God gave us a $1000 right now right in our head. And I looked at her and she looked at me and we just knew.
Sid: You both heard a 1000.
Bob: We both heard it yeah.
Sid: Okay I’m glad because that first vision that Joan had she just saw it not in the vision.
Joan: But Bob tell him real quickly what God told you 2 weeks after we wrote the contract on the ranch.
Bob: Well 2 weeks after we wrote the contract on the ranch I was still not sure if she really heard from God. And I said “Joan you know we’re putting our house; we’re going to be putting our house up for sale I said “We were going to stay here until Jesus comes back this is the house desire of our heart we have been looking at this house for 10 years that we were going to live in this area.” And I said “Are you sure?” She just said “Bobby I know that I know that I know.” So one day I was in prayer in the morning and I’m saying and I was travailing that’s what I was doing I said “Lord am I doing the right thing here and I making the right decision how come You haven’t spoken to me You always speak to both of us how come you didn’t speak to me yet?” And I heard Him say loud and clear He just said “You just follow the leading of your wife she’s doing everything that I’m telling her to do.”
Sid: Was it almost like an audible voice?
Bob: Yes, yes it seared so far into my heart that I burst out in tears.
Sid: For those that are just tuning in for the first time Bob and Joan had a half a million dollar home. The home of their dreams and they have no extra money and Joan has a vision to set up a farm for seriously ill children and give them a little joy in this life. And so she goes to buy the farm and she didn’t have money for down payment and she takes her jewelry off and there’s another man that’s giving a nice check for down payment and the owner says “I’ll take her jewelry I want to do something for God.” And what God is saying he didn’t get conformation he went along with her and then God gave that confirmation. Let’s go back right now you’ve got cancer and you’re giving $1000 to feed the hungry and what happens next?
Joan: Well after we gave $1000 Benny said “For all of you people that just gave to feed the hungry…
Bob: In fact what impressed me was he stopped other people from coming up because he says “Stop.” He said “A lot of you people are just doing it out of emotion now he said the first people that came up here were the ones that heard from the Holy Spirit and he said “Everybody else sit down.” I was very surprised at that.
Sid: In other words he’s turning down money.
Bob & Joan: Yes he said “That’s it he says only the people that heard from God are supposed to get up here, when everybody jumped up at once that was the move of the Holy Spirit. He said “Now you’re just doing it just to be there” and he stopped it. And I was really taken back by that.
Joan: So he said “All of you just gave you will be able you don’t know what’s coming around the corner you don’t know if attacks are coming against you but what it does and when it does you will be able to stand on Psalms 41. Psalms 41 says “For those who feed the hungry or take care of the poor God will sustain them in their time of sickness, He will turn their bed of languishing around and they shall live and they shall not die.” He said “People I know that maybe this means nothing to you at this moment” which it meant nothing to us at that moment but it was that week I found out I had cancer. And the fear that came over us was tremendous we went home we’re sitting there I would cry he would cry back and forth back and forth. After going through this terrible battle with fear for 2 days before I went in for the surgery all of a sudden Bob grabbed a hold of me one night and he grabbed the Bible and opened up to Psalms 41 pull he off the couch started shaking me “Joanie you’re not going to die you can’t die, he said “We feed the hungry and take care of the poor.” He says “Psalms 41 says that “You shall live and not die and all nations shall call us blessed.” He said “Do you understand that, get it down in your spirit you’re not going to die.” And at that moment it went down in my spirit and that night fear actually left and I felt it come from my stomach and a black cloud came right out of my mouth at the service that night.
Sid: Wait, wait wait. You imagined this you saw this?
Joan: No I saw it, I saw it I started praising God that night at the service because of fear I felt it going. And I said “Oh God forgive me for doubting forgive me I know that I’m going to live now I know that I’m not going to die.” And all of a sudden as I started praising God from the pit of my stomach I felt something moving up through my chest. And out of my mouth I actually saw a little black cloud go “Puff” and it was a spirit of fear left me and it’s never returned.
Sid: And you know the people that really keep in the spirit tell me that people die from this fear more than sicknesses.
Joan: I asked the cancer specialist that when after she operated on me she said to me “You don’t have any fear do you?” I said “No I’m a child of God I’m not going anywhere.” And she said “That’s amazing.” I said “Well spirits of fear you know.” And my doctor was Jewish and I said to her “Well God loves me and has a plan for me” and I said let me ask you something when you see people fearful do they die quicker than others?” She said “Most definitely she said they’re consumed with the fear.” And I actually asked her if she knew what the spirit of fear was and she said no. And but the prognosis with me got worse after that week because after they operated and took out the lump…
Bob: Joan I hate to interrupt you but just tell them what you did to the doctor before you went into the operating room this is really neat Sid.
Joan: Well my doctor was Jewish and she was a fabulous surgeon and I trusted her with all of my heart. And I was going into the operating room and it was 6:00 in the morning and the Lord spoke to me to open the Bible to Isaiah 53 and write down all of the verses down. So when we were going into the operating room she said “Well kiddo are you ready?” And I said “Well not exactly.” She said “What do you mean?” I said “Well on the way down I have a piece of paper Isaiah 53 you are not going to operate on me until you read it I’ll know so you better not.” She said “I promise I will, yes I will.” So I went on to the operation you know praise God greater is He that’s in me and every word of God that I ever put in was coming out. So…
Sid: So were out of time…