Sid: Well my guest David Jones is red hot for the Messiah. We found out that God took him into what is known as an open vision and he saw what the Bible refers to as the worst day in the history of planet earth it’s called “The Day of the Lord.” Now David God’s given you a call tell me about that.
David: When I was 30 years old I remember sleeping; I remember sleeping in my bed and all of a sudden I just work up. And I heard these words “Go to the book of Ezekiel the 3rd Chapter and begin at the 14th verse.” And I looked at the clock and it was 5:00 and I said “Uh oh! God’s getting ready to speak to me,” and I got my Bible and I opened it up and it said “Son of man I have made you a watchman unto the House of Israel. When I say unto the wicked thou shall surely die and thou givest him not warning nor to warn him from his wicked way.(And what’s the purpose of the warning but to save his life) That same wicked man shall die in his sin but his blood will I require at thy hand.” That means I had a great responsibility to give people the truth whether I wanted to do it or not. I had to do it because I have to answer to God one day.
Sid: Give me 2 people that you shared the truth with and what happened with them.
David: Well, the call to warn was on me even at an early age at 11 years old Sid. I remember my Uncle Fred, that was my buddy my Uncle Fred. He was 28 years old and I was 11 and I had my own bed but I liked sleeping with my Uncle Fred. And we would talk and just have a great sessions on talking about all kinds of things at night. But this one night something was different and so I begin to speak to Uncle Fred. And I said “Uncle Fred.” And I’m a junior, everybody calls me junior. And he said “Yeah Jun.” I said “Grandma said the Bible says “Except a man be born again Jesus said “He won’t even see the Kingdom of heaven but he’ll die and go to hell and burn in the lake of fire and brimstone.” And his response was, “When you got to go you gotta go.” Sid the next week, not 10 years later, the next week God didn’t allow me to sleep with Uncle Fred I slept across from Uncle Fred. And I heard my Grandmother at the bottom of the stairs calling him about 7:00 in the morning saying “Fred, Fred, Fred get up Fred you got to go to work.” And I got up and I cut the light on and looked over. And he was 28 but he drunk beer so he had a little beer gut and I was kind of half sleeping and I said “It don’t look like Uncle Fred’s stomach going up and down.” I didn’t think nothing of it I went and got in the bed with him and grabbed his arm and started shaking his belly and I said “Hmm Uncle Fred is cold he must have sleep under no cover.” And I was shaking him and my Grandmother got to the top of the stairs and she said “Jun can you get him up.” She said “Lord, have mercy!” She said “I think Fred dead, and I drop his arms.” Sid he had one week to set his house in order, he will have no excuse on that day. “Well Lord, when did I hear about You?” And He will say “Well, remember the lad, he was telling you you must be born again.” Another time I was preaching, ministering on a Wednesday service and I was just ministering the word and all of a sudden I never had this happen to me before. I stopped and I said “There’s someone in this church, this is your last call from God. The Lord is calling you tonight, this is your last call after this night the Lord will not come to you ever again, answer the call of God.” All of a sudden a beautiful Spanish lady, young girl about 17 in the back of the church real long hair jumped up weeping and crying running and crying “Oh my God it’s me, it’s me. I’m a backslider, I want to come home.” And she rededicated her life. That was on a Wednesday night 2 weeks later she was killed in a car accident. The Bible says “The day you hear My voice harken not your heart.” Sid listen God spoke to me said “I’m telling you to warn them for Me because it’s my love reaching out to all mankind I’m giving them warning and I’m living them by giving them the warning it’s My mercy that’s reaching out to them, it’s my compassion that’s reaching out to them through the warning.
Sid: What about someone that’s listening to us right now that is involved in sin but they say “Everyone does it it’s okay, God’s a God of love.” What would you say to them?
David: But he’s a God of justice and He’s a God of judgment. The Lord is holy and He said in His word, “Be ye holy for I am holy.” Hebrew 12:14 says “Follow peace with all men, holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. The Lord means what He says and He’s says what He means.” The scripture cannot be altered neither can it be broken. He said “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.”
Sid: What about people that are living for God on Sunday, but the rest of the week they live like everyone else?
David: Sometime they’ve been bewitched in their own thoughts and their own mind. The Bible says “If we confess our sins He’s faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness.” God is a merciful God and compassionate God. But Sid there is a line that I cannot cross with God. There’s a line that you cannot cross and that is the line of no return. And if they keep going on the Lord will have to judge them on it sooner or later.
Sid: How soon could this whole vision you saw the return of Jesus “The Day of the Lord, the Day of pouring out of His judgment.” How soon could that be?
David: It could happen like NOW! Because it came so SWIFTLY! It came so SUDDENLY! upon all humanity and it caught everyone off guard. Why because Jesus said “I’m coming at an hour and at a time when man least expects it.” I know we got great revelation teachers and they’re comparing scriptures with scripture but in the vision everyone was caught off guard!
Sid: David tell me about the time you were driving in Atlanta and you thought the Lord said to you to “Pick up a woman,” but you kind of shrugged it off, you didn’t want to do it.
David: Sid can I be honest, I knew I heard from God. I’m going to tell the truth on myself, I didn’t want to be bothered with the lady. I didn’t want to stop I’m just telling the truth, I’m honest. I’m the kind of preacher I’ll show you why I missed God. I missed God. The lady was walking up the hill and a steep hill and she had groceries in her hand and I’m driving my car and getting close. And the Lord said “Pick her up.” And I’m being honest I said “I’m not picking that lady up, I don’t even know that lady.” And I past the lady by and the Lord came to me again with authority and said “Pick her up!” I said “Oh God forgive me, I’ll pick her up.” And I start praying and I turn the car around and I’m going back up the hill and I say “Lord give me something to this lady I don’t want to start freaking out on me I know that she don’t know me.” And as I’m getting closer to her she was looking at me out of the corner of her eye like “What is he doing?” And I rolled down the window and I say “Mam I’m going to the top of the hill, I can give you a ride.” She said “I don’t ride with strangers, and then all of a sudden God just started ministering through me.” I said “Mam I understand these are the last days and these are the last times and you have to be so careful but the Lord knows your going in and your coming out there is nothing hid from the Lord.” She said “I believe I’ll take that ride.” Sid, I got right to the point I said “Mam anybody can quit but it take a real man, a real woman to keep going.” And she said “Oh, my God the Lord must have sent you to me.” I said “Why do you say that?” She said “I done wreck my car, that’s why I’m walking now, I lost my job; I’m starting to do crack cocaine, I got this big lump on my breast I’m thinking about killing myself.” I say “Mam if you kill yourself the devil will turn a flip that’s all he want you to do, but where there’s life there’s hope.” And when I said it Sid I heard God for myself and I began to almost breakdown and cry because I heard God. I said “Where there’s life, there’s hope.” And she began to just weep and cry and then Sid I led her to the Lord and when I led her to the Lord I dropped her off at her place and I got ready to drive and I couldn’t drive because I began to break. Now my dad he was a fighter and he always taught me to be strong and not be a cry baby, and so I held back the tears. But now for the first time in my life I’m getting ready to weep, tears are coming out of my eyes and I said “I’m crying.” And I was crying because I was ashamed of myself; I didn’t want to be bothered with this lady, I didn’t want to take time out with woman. And the lady told me that she was going to commit suicide and I began to repent to God and I said Lord I make a vow to you this day. “Wherever you send me oh Lord, I’ll go, wherever you tell me to say oh King I’ll say “Thus sayeth the Lord God whether I know them or not.” And Sid, from that very day God start sending me the businessmen, the bishops, the owners of companies, the movie producers, to doctors, to lawyers, to nurses. God started sending me to people and when He send me He would give me a word for them. And every time I would give there to them I would know that I’d been sent by God to them. Ever since that day I may a vow that wherever God send me I will go.
Sid: David there are people listening to us right now that must get right with God. How will they?
David: Jesus says “Whosoever will let him come undo me and I will in nowise cast him out.” I don’t care what you’re doing, I don’t care what you have done. You might have been on drugs and alcohol, you might be suicidal right now. God loves you with an everlasting love and He says in His word, He wish that none should perish but all come to repentance. He loved you before the foundations of the world; He said “Come unto Me all you heavy laden and I will give you rest.” Aren’t you sick and tired of being sick and tired? Jesus is your answer come unto Me, all you heavy laden and I will give you rest. My yoke is easy and my burdens are light and you will find rest unto your souls. The word of God says that “If we confess with our mouth, and believe in our heart that God raised Jesus from the dead,” this is a promise “Thou shall be saved.” Right now just confess with your mouth, just begin to repent right now say “Lord I repent of all of trespasses and sin. God come into my life; forgive me Lord, wash me and make me clean, come into my life. Be my Lord and my Savior; direct my footsteps in everything I say and do Lord, I give You my life. Cleans me Lord, I say yes to your will and I saw yes to your way. And from this day forward I will serve you all the days of my life and I will be a witness for you wherever I go in the land.”
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah lukewarm it’s deception. You’re better off being cold then being deceived because it you’re cold you know you’ve got a problem. But if you are lukewarm; if you’re like the average 21st century American Christian. You go to church on Sunday; you love the people, you love God; you love the pastor, but during the rest of the week there’s no difference between you and nonbelievers that have a good moral conscience something is wrong somewhere. We are at the wrap up, we’re about ready to see the greatest revival; I mean it’s not an accident that you’re listening to me right now. We’re about ready to see the greatest revival the world has ever seen; God is right now releasing anointing’s, ancient anointing’s. Because there is so much work that has to be done; instead you’re holding on to the toys of this life when the true riches are about ready to come to you. And you know what I’m reminded of Kathryn Kuhlman who had a great miracle ministry and she said “She was the bottom of the barrel last choice of God for this great miracle ministry but many great men of God were offered this ministry and turned it down.” What do you mean by offered this ministry? What I mean by that is that is that if He can trust you with little things He can trust you with big things. You are being offered a very very special destiny; don’t miss it for the toys of this earth. My guest is Patrick McEnnerney I’m speaking to him at his home in Casa Grande, Arizona and Patrick you were in middle of what God was showing you would you expound on that?
Pat: Yes, I was talking about a prophetic word and let’s just back up we’ll roll back a little bit. I was flying from the east coast to Montana, and I actually had been fretting because this conference was an important conference that I was going to do. I had writers block; a road block and I always prepare myself and I don’t ever give a message unless I’m convinced that it’s totally of God. I’m not into tickling anybody’s ears and I was crying out to the Lord on the airplane and the Lord spoke to me He says “Chill out.” He said “What I gave you 10 years ago you’re going to use and listen I want to share with you what I want you to preach.” So the Lord opened; it enlightened my eyes; it enlightened my being and said “I want you to preach about the sons of thunder; the Covenant Sons of signs and wonders. And they’ll be marching out of Zion with fire in their hands and they will shout out the name of their God as kingdoms fall apart. Jesus is returning soon.” Now I shared with you Sid earlier about a vision that God gave me in Spokane in 1998 and this is really part of it God didn’t give it all to me at once. But there’s this new anointing, this new breed, this new army of believers that is Jew and Gentile. And that is the new man; that is the man restored into relationship that will walk with such phenomenal power that we’ll be raising the dead and casting out demons, healing the sick and preaching the kingdom of our God. There’s only one nation and there’s only one blood; and that nation the King is Jesus the Messiah. The blood is the blood of the Lamb and we can’t enter into this new anointing into this new army into this thing God is doing presently at this very hour. He’s tearing away the hierarchies; He’s tearing away the religious things.
Sid: I sure hope that He speeds this up because I am so ready for the new that I can taste it.
Pat: I am too, you know one of the things that I combat constantly is this lip service that people say they believe. Intellectually they have ascended to truth; but in their belly there is no truth of that belief or they would step into it and do it. People need to forget really all the stuff that they’re doing for the most part and come back to the simple truth and come unto Me; Jesus said “Follow Me.” My call was this that I know that I wasn’t God’s first choice; I’m convinced of it but I said “Here I am, choose me.” And then the Lord allowed His fire to come. And we see in Numbers these Levi Priests and they were a holy nation; they were holy. But they weren’t in a position, they weren’t doing really what God had asked them to do; they were outside of what God had spoken to them. They looked good; they were the famous and they were the ones that all would be led by. God stepped out in their midst and they were consumed in their fire. But they’re fire pans became holy and He used it as a memorial of who God is, and I believe that these sons of thunder these Covenant sons Jew and Gentiles will walk with such power that the fire of God will come from heaven and consume up darkness. And I’m seeing in our ministry tremendous things happen. Well, it isn’t happening worldwide. Well, I think that God has been calling and preparing people; healing was non-heard of 5 years ago basically. And now there are hundreds of healing centers or healing rooms and they’re now seeking the face of Jesus. And they’re thinking “Could this gospel be true?”
Sid: Listen, there’s got to be a change. The system that we have as King James would have said “Stinketh.” Listen the system we have is four walls and expect nonbelievers to come in droves inside of these four walls to get saved by the paid professional. That’s not the way that God set this whole system up. He wanted everyone to be a worker and you’re starting to see tremendous miracles in your ministry. And I asked you a question; “What do you think was the turning point where you began to see these miracles.” And you said “It really was through the crucible of suffering.” People don’t want to hear about it, but you had a sickness, tell me about it.
Pat: Yes, the Lord came to me and revealed to me in 1991 the Holy Spirit said “When you gave yourself to Jesus you died, but you have not given me permission to reign and rule in your life.” And so I consecrated my life and I asked the “Father in Jesus Name, I charged the Holy Spirit to come in with power and remove anything that would hinder you possessing me.” And forgot about that little prayer but within 2 weeks I became ill and I was eventually diagnosed with intractable migraines and the pain never left for 6 years and I was on methadone and demurral and it was excruciating and I would pass out from it. It literally ripped away my fortune and in that process, see God didn’t bring that, if I knew then what I know now I wouldn’t have had to suffer. But in that process and in that tremendous pain I put a demand in heaven in desperation and there was a cry that started coming out of me and God leaned and fastened His ear to me and heard my cry. But because of that I entered into what I would call Christ crucified. Now I’m not talking about being perfect; I’m talking about I desired and I started giving up all the idols.
Sid: You know when you’re in such bad physical shape you’re willing to give up anything to get relief. And why is it that we can’t do this without these challenges? What is it that makes us so hard headed and stiff necked?
Pat: Well, I can only speak for part of what I understand and what I’ve experienced but the church as a whole is like the fig tree that Jesus cursed. It had leaves but it had no fruit; and Jesus maybe a lot of people don’t know this a fig tree produces fruit before it does leaves. And this tree dried from the roots up; a trees don’t die in that way. What Jesus was saying “He hates the counterfeit.” And see the devils a liar and a thief he comes, to steal, kill and destroy; he’s the master counterfeiter and deceiver. And so we have walk in the truth and we worship God in the Spirit of truth and Spirit. So I believe as in my case; being raised in Catholicism, the Catholic Church; I knew who Mary was and I heard about the Father. But I didn’t really know this Jesus, that He’s the only way, He’s the only path; He’s the only door. And He is life and if you don’t go through Him you don’t have life. And so I saw a facade of religiousness but I never saw the power. When I minister today I tell people that many have never heard about God and they’re religious and they’re there to jure and come against it. And I say “If what I say is true we can demonstrate it; that it is true sharper than any two edged sword. And many times before I preach I’ll walk over and I’ll speak it from the pulpit “In Jesus Mighty Name I rebuke that Spirit of death on the person stand up.” And they’ll be radically miraculously healed by the power of Jesus Christ.” That brings the lost into the house; and our ministry has moved somewhat; God has told us and we’d done it and we obeyed it. It was a mandate to get a tent to go to places where people won’t darken the church. We put the tent up and those that get saved with relationship to other churches Jew or Gentile churches we want them to be discipled. They mustn’t stay in this state of a convert; they must be discipled. And so you know God said “His word came with power” if we’re not preaching the gospel with supernatural power you know it’s not a new thing; signs and wonders followed those that believe. And we have to judge ourselves and look back at the wake that we leave behind. Is there supernatural things happen in your ministry; or in your house or in your home? If there isn’t you’ve missed it; because Jesus declared that all those that believe signs and wonders follow them.” And He doesn’t need our intellect what He needs is us to enter into His death and be Christ crucified.
Sid: Patrick, let me tell you something, what you are touching on few people talk about. We’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast Mishpochah. Because you have been crying out to God for walking in the power; he’s going to tell you how because he has the goods. I want you ready, I want you in place for the last, for the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history.
Sid: I want to see everyone everywhere laying hands on the sick and having them recover and then having a platform to proclaim the gospel. But remember the law of evangelism is go to the Jew first. Oh, God has just healed someone with a neck problem, if you move your head you’ll see the pain is gone. I’m interviewing Doug Jones. Doug has spent 20 years as an instructor at Rhema Bible College. And for 9 years he ran their Healing School; people came from all over the world. He learned keys to healing that few Christians understand. And if you understood this you would; I believe have the healing that God wants in your own body and you would be able to lay hands on the sick or speak healing words and see people healed all over the map. Now Doug on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about in Mark the 11th chapter the 23 verse about believing before you see. And you said “Preceding that, immediately preceding those verses Jesus cursed the fig tree; it appeared as though nothing happened; the next day it withered from it’s roots. But I said to you “Well, that’s not a long time; that’s you know just 24 hours, but what about someone that’s been believing God for a specific healing for 3 years?
Doug: Well, the thing about it is this; is that Mark 11:24 says “Whatsoever things that you desire when you pray believe that you receive them and you shall receive them.” There’s a lot of people today Sid that are believing for their healing. That tells me this then that they do not believe that God has given them anything yet; they’re still believing to get their healing. I’ll never forget that we had an individual with colon cancer and what happened was that he started bleeding anytime that he had a bowel movement. And he didn’t get physically checked out by a doctor he let it go. And over a process of time he didn’t even tell his wife that he was bleeding and he went for months and it started getting worse and worse and worse. And finally he started losing weight and finally after oh I bet it was 7 or 8 months confided in his wife. Well, she just became unglued and immediately almost just forced him to go to the doctor to find out what was going on. And he found out colon cancer and he had waited too long and it was past operation and now very desperate situation. Well, I started ministering to him but I never could get him on proper position; his faith wasn’t in the proper place. I’ll never forget…
Sid: It’s so logical, why couldn’t you?
Doug: Well, on the hospital bed he’d always say to me he’d put his thumb up in the air and he say “God’s going to do it Doug; God’s going to do it.” And I thought to myself you know God’s going to do it and believing that you received when you prayed are 2 separate different directions.
Sid: It sounds the same; in fact some people didn’t even catch that say that again.
Doug: He was saying “God’s going to do it; God’s going to do it Brother Doug.” But the issue is this as Mark 11:24 says that “When you pray you’re to believe that you received.” If you believed that you received when you prayed then you wouldn’t be getting up into every prayer line offered to you why? No need for me to go up there I believed that I received last Friday, that believing power is in my body it’s working mightily. Just like that fig tree Jesus cursed that fig tree; power was administered to that fig tree and it’s working mightily. Well, He didn’t curse it the next time He went past that tree, it was the next day on their way back to Jerusalem that Peter cries out “The fig trees dried up from the roots.” Jesus didn’t curse that fig tree over and over again. He didn’t go over there and speak to it 2 or 3 different times. He spoke it one time and believed that that power was administered to the roots of that tree. So many people today they have hands laid upon them but because they don’t feel something, because they don’t see a change in their body then they come to the conclusion that God didn’t give them anything. And yet what He gave them was not something visible it was something spiritual it was the healing power of God. That power that was made available to us through the death, burial and resurrection. That same power that went out of Jesus that flowed into the woman with the issue of blood. That same power was administered to our bodies when we were prayed for but we must believe that we received it when we prayed. And so for me Sid if we believed it that that power was administered they wouldn’t be getting up into every prayer line offered to them. Why, that power is in me and the only thing left to do is to say “Father, thank You.”
Sid: Now, does that power ever leave the person once it’s in them?
Doug: That power never leaves, that power never dissipates or disappears. If an individual had hands laid upon them 5 years ago for kidney problems that healing power is still in they’re kidneys. I’ll put it to you like this; you know as well as I do as Christians we miss it sometimes and get into sin. But Mark chapter 1 and verse 19 says or 1 John 1:9 says “If we confess our sins He’s faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness. Every single one of us have seen people pray that prayer, ask God for forgiveness but they get up and because they don’t feel any different. Because they might feel inferior or they might feel unworthy they get up and they don’t believe that God forgave them without question. Did God forgive that person when they asked for forgiveness. Yes, but because they didn’t believe that they were forgiven, because they didn’t believe that they received that in essence they live apart from what was given to them. They were forgiven but they’re living apart from it; they still guilty, they still feel inferior. 1 John 9 will never produce a feeling; it produces a fact. And you hand around the fact long enough and the feeling will come. The fact that say “I was forgiven whether I feel like it or not God forgave me and He’s restored me completely. Such it is with the healing power of God. That fact that the healing power of God was administered to your body, that does not change.
Sid: Let me ask you this “Do I need someone like yourself to lay hands on me.”
Sid: “Or can I speak to my own body, can I lay hands on myself and is that as effective as Doug Jones praying for me?
Doug: Your operating on the word of God; yesterday’s program we talked about the fact that the word of God is likened unto a seed. If you find a scripture and obey a scripture the power within the scripture is released within your life. Sid when Jesus gave the little word come it was a promise. It was some instructions given to Peter, come. That little word come had contained within it enough power to actually defy the laws of nature and allow Peter to walk on water. But it took Peter’s obedience to release the power within the word come in order for it to be manifested within his life. If you have a sick child, first of all we recommend that you contact your medical physician but you also pray. If at 3:00 in the morning you know Mark 16: “They shall lay hands on upon the sick and they shall recover.” I encourage you to pray for that child. Go ahead and get the child medically checked out also but pray and the moment you pray the healing power of God is administered to that body because obedience always releases the power within the word of God. So to answer your question “No.” You do not need a Kenneth Hagin or a Oral Roberts or anyone else; all it takes is a hand. They shall lay hands on the sick; they didn’t say special hands, they say a minsters hand, it said “Hands.”
Sid: You know what I’m reminded again that you said Brother Hagin used to say the moment I lay my hands on you the healing power of God will be administered to your body, but what you do with it is up to you. What did he mean by that?
Doug: Well, you can neglect the healing power of God. Neglected power is dormant power; neglected power is inactive power. You know that Paul told Timothy in 1st Timothy chapter 4 in verse 14. And I encourage our readers to read it; now I realize that this is not talking about healing; but it is talking about something that was given to Timothy at the laying on of hands. Listen to what it says here “Neglect not the gift that is in thee which was given thee by prophesy with the laying on of the hands of presbytery.” In other words evidently hands were laid on Timothy and something was given to Timothy a gift. Paul told Timothy the gift that was given to you through the laying hand “Timothy you’re not to neglect it.” Now Sid you know as well as I do that if you neglect something that it will never reach it’s full potential. If you neglect a dog or a pet it will never reach it’s full potential. If you neglect your yard it will never reach it’s full potential. Evidently he’s saying to us you can neglect things given to you through the laying on of hands. And so there are people today like you stated that Brother Hagin and I so often heard him say it “The moment I lay my hands upon you the healing power of God will be administered to your body; but what you do with it after that is up to you.” And I’ll never forget I’d seen him do it so many times; he’d take his watch off and say “If I gave you my watch as a gift to you from that point on what you do with it is up to you.” You can take it and stomp on it and you can throw it; you can give it away it’s up to you.” And it’s the same thing with the healing power of God; once it’s administered to your body if you neglect it. In other words if you never think about it; if you never thank the Heavenly Father for it; if you never talk about it that healing power will become neglected it will become inactive in your life.
Sid: You know Doug, on tomorrow’s broadcast we’re just about out of time. On tomorrow’s broadcast I want you to read what Ken Hagin had to say and this isn’t published anywhere about keeping the switch of faith turned on. Tell me how you got that.
Doug: That was in August 10th of 1992 Brother Hagin was in Nanuit, New York and he spoke on that subject so as a result I go the transcript on that.
Sid: Whoops we’re out of time.
Sid: I am concerned; I want you to hear God’s voice and Richard Mull no matter what happens on planet earth. No matter how awful it becomes if people hear God’s voice I happen to believe that it’ll be the most exciting adventure of our lives. What do you think?
Richard: Amen; definitely.
Sid: Okay, I’m going to take you back; you never went to seminary and you’re in ministry now but you never were taught how to hear God’s voice. If you were taught anything you were taught the opposite; you got the Bible that’s all you need. Well, that’s true that’s all you need but you need to do what the Bible says. And the Bible you tear… if somebody took the supernatural out of the Bible would they have much left Richard?
Richard: You know it’s interesting we’re trying to find out what percentage of the scripture is supernatural and we’re having some issues because we need a programmer to help us and we have a couple different programmers but we should have it pretty soon. I’ll be able to tell you what percentage of scripture.
Sid: Approximate, what do you think?
Richard: I believe it’s between 60 and 80% of the Bible is supernatural. It’s definitely over 50%. I believe that we’re closer to 80% is supernatural. If you took out everything that’s happening that’s supernatural you’d only have 20% of the Bible.
Sid: Okay, take you back to ’96, 1996, you’re in ministry and not one but two wonderful ministry opportunities cross your path. And you realize God I don’t know which one is from you; that had to be very frustrating.
Richard: It was very frustrating but at the same time when you have 2 opportunities it’s exciting but you want to know “Is there one that is the will of God over the other.” Because either one I would have been happy with.
Sid: So how’d you find out?
Richard: Well, I was Baptist Youth Pastor and I prayed a prayer that is not normal for us. And so I said “God I need it to be supernatural; otherwise I’m going to always wonder if I stayed I would wonder if I took the easy road. If I head overseas and now I got people saying ‘God told them they were supposed to stay here.’ I may doubt and wonder ‘Did I miss God.’ So I want a supernatural answer and this is literally what I prayed and I fasted. And I said either drop a granite stone out of the sky with an etch in it like the 10 Commandments, yes etch it in there you can do that you did it before. Or…”
Sid: Yeah, I saw that in a movie. (Laughing) I’m just easing go ahead.
Richard: I said “Send somebody walk up off the street and tell me God told them, I’m supposed to stay here.” I said, “If it’s a total stranger and they walk up off the streets and they tell me I will know that is from You.” I fasted for 4 days; I had communicated with the Senior Leader of the church that I was going to be resigning to head overseas unless God supernaturally revealed that I was supposed to stay.
Sid: So what did God do did you get hit in the head with a piece of granite?
Richard: The granite did not show up but on Monday morning. I finished the fast on Thursday, on Monday morning I got a phone call from the receptionist. She said “There’s a guy out here that wants to speak to a Pastor.” We got 10 pastors on staff and they were all gone to lunch so I came out there. A guy with a long beard; long hair he had dirty hands; he was missing most of his teeth. There was an old beat up pickup truck outside the glass windows I could see. I thought “This is going to be interesting; how can I help you?” And he introduced himself and told a little bit about having a ministry in the inner city to the prostitutes and homosexuals. And he said “God told me today to come in here and speak to a pastor.” And I said “Okay, how can I help you?” He started to cry a little bit as he said the words he said “The only thing that I know what God wants me to say is that sometimes we feel like God wants us to go far away like another country that’s where He can use us when in reality God wants us to stay right where we are and that’s where He’s going to use to make an impact.” And He says “I don’t know why I’m telling you this but God told me today to come in here and tell this to a preacher.”
Sid: Aren’t you glad that he had enough we Jewish people have a word called chutzpah. He had enough chutzpah; nerve to tell you something of what he didn’t have a clue of what he was every talking about.
Richard: I thought God “What kind of person could even answer that prayer?” You know the normal Christian that I’ve always gone off with couldn’t. I’d never met anybody that would do something like that. But God said “Wow Richard, tough request but I got one guy I could call on.” So he did it.
Sid: Okay, you knew what you were supposed to do but you did a little more than what you bargained for. This pastor Cecil started mentoring you in the supernatural but you had seen something that I think it’s a horrible term it’s called slain in the Spirit. Rather to me I would call it overcome by the presence of the Living God.
Sid: What did you think about being slain in the Spirit?
Richard: Well, I had never seen it in scripture. It’s interesting because Charles Finney had always been one of my favorites and I knew that type of stuff had happened to him. But I felt a lot of what I had seen; I hadn’t been around it much but what I had seen people being pushed seemed a little dramatic. And so I really shied away from it; couldn’t see it in the Bible. And I had a drummer in our youth band come up to me and want to share visions he had when he was slain in the Spirit. I just looked at him and I’m thinking in my head “Okay, if God was going to give anybody visions wouldn’t it be me I’m the Youth Pastor and you’re just a kid.” And I didn’t say that but that was my arrogance thought that. And I said “Could you show me slain in the Spirit in the Bible?” And he couldn’t and I was just like “See.” I said “If God shows you something in the Word tell it to me and I’d be glad for you to share it but no not something that you saw in a vision when you were slain in the Spirit.” It was exactly 7 days later that Cecil called me and said “I have another word from God for you.” And it had been 8 months and I didn’t think he was real, I hadn’t heard anything from him. And he showed up at my office and he gave me… he said “Before I give you the Word that God told me to tell you we need to go pray for your wife she’s having severe back pain.” I was like “How does this guy know these things?” So we went to my house and we prayed for my wife; God healed her and he turned to give me a word from God and the next thing I knew I was laying on the floor having a vision.
Sid: What was your vision?
Richard: You know it was fairly long and extensive but in a nutshell I first saw an angel at my feet; and the angel seemed like morphed into a man. It was the same person; it was the same being but at first it looked like an angel but it was a man and he was laying a sheet over me. And at that very moment this guy Cecil said “There is an angel and he’s laying a mantle on you.” And I thought “How does he know what I’m seeing?” And it wasn’t like he had suggested something and then I saw it; it was he was saying exactly what I was seeing. And then I saw another being that invited me to come and it appeared as though a sword was falling through the sky and it split this veil. And I couldn’t see the veil until the sword hit it and all of a sudden the image went from kind of greyish to much more clear because I could see through the veil. And I saw this sword and it split this veil and a creature invited me to… it was like a young person invited me to come behind the veil. I went with them behind the veil and there was a large round platform like an altar, or I want to say the word, actually I don’t know what it would be called actually. But above it was hovering like a Roman shield; not a shield but a helmet. And it was hovering and it was spinning slowly. I’m just looking at all of this it was 3 dimensional as real as anything I’m looking at right now. And I’m watching that and then there was a star that came down from above and the closer it got to the more I felt this energy. It was pulsating inside of me like it was going to explode and at one point I just said “Enough.” And it was like the vision stopped and I had been on the ground I don’t know how long. My wife had gotten down to see if I was still breathing because she was worried about me.
Sid: I’m sure.
Richard: I just sat up and I went “Wow!” I remembered kind of mocking the kid the week before about what I’d just experienced and here I am exactly 7 days before. It was just a couple of hours before I would be leading my youth and I was sitting there going “I just got off the floor and I just had a vision. I’m going to ask that kid to forgive me.” Because even though I can’t explain just what happened to me and I’m not going to quickly use this word slain the Spirit lightly or anything like that but I know this was an encounter.
Sid: Okay, we’re out of time right now Richard but you then are taught step by step on how to hear God’s voice for yourself. Your wife then learned step by step supernaturally how to hear God’s voice. And God literally directed you to have color coded various categories of the supernatural in a Bible. Imitation leather so that as people read the scripture for themselves that Word will become flesh and they will walk in everything that God has for them in this life.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Pastor Ricky Sinclair Pastor of Miracle Place Church in Baton Rouge Parish, Louisiana. Unbelievable he just started out with the good life; a little alcohol; a little marijuana it won’t hurt anyone and he went as low as a human can go. He was facing life in prison and he escaped from the jail when they were booking him and he was in the woods for 56 days. When you were in the woods running from the police what did you eat; what did you drink?
Ricky: Oh my Sid listen I was in the woods for 56 days eating raw Armadillo. Look I’m talking Dillon on the half shell. (Laughing)
Sid: I haven’t seen that in a restaurant lately. (Laughing)
Ricky: No you see oysters on the half shell (Laughing) I call it Dillon on the half shell; literally and it’s the reality of drugs Sid. You know for our listening audience today I really want them to understand the real reality of drugs. It seems like it’s a party; it seems like it’s fun; it seems like it feels good but in the end it’s like a snake; it biteth like a serpent. At the end you got to pay the piper so ever you sow you also reap. And so here I am in the woods eating raw Armadillo. Now what you do is and I’ll give a little survivor course in case there are some folk that are listening to us today and they say that they want to have a career in drugs. And I want to tell them the real reality; I give them a little survivor course in case they may have to escape because they got busted because they’re in trouble by the law. And here they are running in the woods; and what you do is that you go back into survival mode; you eat whatever is in the woods. You don’t have any kind of knife or any kind of match.
Sid: What did you do for water?
Ricky: I’ll tell you Sid, I laid 4 days and 4 nights 25 feet from the Angola guard line and after 4 days my tongue was welded to my mouth. There’s one thing that you cannot go without and that is water. So after 4 days I was literally dying; I was starting to hallucinate really bad and so what I did was I got out of the spot that I was laying in and went deep into the woods.
Sid: Now why were you deep in the woods; why didn’t you just come on out and…
Ricky: There’s standards all around me; I’m in a 4 mile 4 mile square block and there’s standards, chase team standards every 50 yards around the blacktop road all around the woods that I was in.
Sid: You’re just a 22 year old kid doing drugs; what are they after you like this for?
Ricky: Twenty-two years old busted in in 92 distribution of cocaine, marijuana and Diazepam, which is Valium; 1986 distribution of marijuana. Running from those charges in New Orleans busted again with intent to distribute 14 pounds of marijuana and an ounce of Ecstasy. So let me just tell you Sid now a days in your schools throughout the world every person in that school has got to say yes or no to marijuana; it’s that prevalent it’s everywhere. So yeah I’m 22 years old caught up in the drug scene but many many people in our world today are facing the same kind of peer pressure and the same kind of temptations because of drugs; this is what is in our world. This is what is in our schools. So yes I’m 22 years old and I’m caught up with a terrible habit. Caught up in the bondage of addiction; of drugs…
Sid: So you’re surrounded your stuck in the woods for 56 days trying to survive? What are you drinking you got to have something.
Ricky: I am drinking water out of the creek in a little whole that’s got mosquito lavas; I’m running from the chase team.
Sid: So these things you’re going to swallow and they’re going to grow inside of you?
Ricky: Down the hatch; I’ll never forget my tongue was like welded to my mouth after 4 days of laying there. Walking up the creek backwards because I didn’t want my… if they did find my tracks I wanted them to think I was going in another direction. Came to a little water whole in the creek and there’s a mosquito lavas that’s in there. And what I’m thinking is if I drink this water out of the little whole in the creek and mosquito lavas are going down my throat I’m thinking that at least this is some extra protein. And you know what that’s the kind of sick thinking that you think. You know what when you’re desperate you’ll do desperate…
Sid: And so you were catching animals; killing them and eating them raw you didn’t have any knives even did you?
Ricky: Here’s what I ate Sid and this is my knife; I found the top of a can like a soup or a cat food can top where it’s open with a can opener. And that became what I called my knife. And what I do is I sneak up for instance an armadillo and you go right back into the caveman survival mode. And I’d knock an armadillo over the head and he’d be kicking he’d be jerking and I’d turn him over on his back and start sawing on that hard skin on his stomach. And I would pull that armadillo out of the shell and cut the back side. Now I’m a country boy and I’d cut the backside right out and it would be sushi Dillon on the half shell. Now let me tell you the worst thing that I put in my mouth to this day and that’s black stink turtle or mud turtle. Those are those little round black turtles; it’s like a snapping turtle but it’s not even a snapping turtle he lives in the water. And what you do is you bust his shell over like a hard stump with a stick in the woods.
Sid: You’re not selling me on that life style one bit you realize that. (Laughing)
Ricky: (Laughing) I’m hoping that someone today gets the revelation today that drugs will destroy your life and it’s not what it seems to be. No matter what the alcohol commercials are saying today and it looks like a big party and it looks like everybody is having fun. Actually it’s bondage; it’s slavery; it’s a snake in one day it’s going to bite you.
Sid: So Ricky, let me ask you so you go through 56 days and you started that way in about 160 pounds; what are you weighing now?
Ricky: I lost 30 pounds at the end so I lost actually over 30 pounds in the woods.
Sid: And why did you come out of the woods to your mother’s house?
Ricky: What happened was after 56 days I had a deer-stand in the woods and that’s where I stayed and after 56 days one morning when I woke up it was so foggy that I couldn’t see but 10 feet in front of me. And I thought that today is the day that I’m going to make it out of these woods. And so what I did was I went to the road where the road was and I low crawled. I’ll never forget I was still scared that the standards were going to see me low crawling like a soldier would in the army through the grass. And I’ll never forget I ran into a wasp nest. A guinea wasp nest and as I ran into it the wasps started stinging me in the face; I was so scared to slap and alert someone I just started smashing them in my face.
Sid: Listen wasps are no fun; go ahead.
Ricky: And there they are in my face Sid and stinging me all in my face and I’m scared to slap them; so I just start smashing them in my face. Ultimately made it through that crossed over the road and ended up at my mother’s house 8 miles up the road. And I’ll never forget I was in the house when my mother had gotten home and she didn’t know if I was dead or alive. Nobody knew I was in the woods for 56 days eating raw armadillo; frogs and turtles and blackberries and thistles and anything else I could find in the woods.
Sid: You know in your book it says the first time you saw yourself in a mirror tell me what happened.
Ricky: I looked like Bin Laden to tell you the truth that’s what I really looked like. You know when people get the book and they see my mug shot it really looks like Bin Laden on the front. And so when I looked at myself and I saw skin and bones; I saw a big old beard; I saw in my eyes there was no light it was death. I had nothing but death in me; that’s what I looked like Sid. And ultimately at my mother’s house my mother walks in and she didn’t even recognize me; as a matter of fact when my mother saw me for the first time her own child her first born she didn’t even recognize me. And ultimately I had to say mom it is me; and then she’s scared to death because I had been running crazy and armed and dangerous and I never was a killer. Here’s my thing I came from a good middle-class family, raised on a Wayfield plantation 1900 acres of land. Good farm people middle-class. So I never had a killing spirit it just wasn’t in my heart. I’ll tell you Sid just for our audience today that’s listening to us I really want them to get the message that drugs, living for yourself and living in sin doing your own thing astray from God will destroy your life. That’s really was the message that God gave me as I went through. And that is if you live for yourself and do your own thing it brings a curse on your life.
Sid: Well, they ultimately caught you at your mother’s house, booked you. What happened next, what were you facing?
Ricky: Facing a life sentence again down in the cell in the jail; the jail that I escaped from. And here comes Ernest James the guy that actually chased me out of the jail and he tells me he says “Ricky, you have a purpose in life. You’re not just created to live the life that you’re living; that is not what you were created for and you have a purpose.” And what he did was he gave me a Bible and here I am sick and tired and tired of being sick thinking about suicide and thinking about hopeless that I don’t have anything to look forward to. And here’s…
Sid: And you explained that you had lifetime in prison at age 22; what a horrible fate. No wonder you were suicidal.
Ricky: Facing life; lost my whole life. I’ll tell you what starts to register now; what really matters now is my wife and my child that I neglected. The one that…
Sid: Ricky, we’re out of time.
Sid: I have my good friend Jonathan Bernis on the telephone; Jonathan is the head of Jewish Voice Ministries. And he has had a ministry that has had greater impact than all of the churches in America put together over the last 25 years. Maybe over the last 100 years and he’s not saying it I’m saying it. Because he’s gone out to the former Soviet Union. Over a quarter million Jewish people have heard a clear presentation of the gospel. Half of them at least have made professions of faith to the point where they’ve filled out a card where they filled out a card with their name and address. And Jonathan if there is anyone that I would like to share the misconceptions that unfortunately most Christians have about Jewish people it would be you. Let’s continue where we left off yesterday.
Jonathan: Well, Sid let me just recap for those that are tuning in today and were not with us yesterday. There’s a number of misconceptions that really hinder the gospel going forth to Jewish people. And I want to reiterate that Christians Gentile Christians have a Divine Biblical responsibility to bring the gospel to the Jewish people. If you will to return the favor that Paul speaks about in Roman’s chapter 9 where he says it’s because of the Jewish people that you have the Patriarch’s that you have the glory of God; that you have the scriptures themselves and ultimately the Messiah who came through the Jewish people. And he says that “There’s a debt of gratitude that’s to be repaid by provoking the Jewish people to jealousy.” And unfortunately there’s a 2000 year legacy of simple provoking the Jewish people in the Name of Christ and Christianity and we have to over come that 2000 year history of misconception and hate in the Name of Christ. Now there are hindrances that are keeping Born Again Spirit-filled Christian’s from sharing their faith with Jewish people. The first one is a fear to share with a Jewish person out of a misconception that they will know the scriptures better than they will. And so who am I as a Christian to share with the Jewish people who brought us the scriptures who have this deep knowledge and revelation of God. And it’s absolutely false, nothing could be further from the truth (Laughing). And I laugh every time I hear this because very few Jewish people less than 10% of the Jewish community in the United States read the scriptures. I didn’t have the slightest clue about who God was or salvation, or the Messiah when I became a believer. And Sid I have people lining up, Christians lining up to ask me questions as the Jewish scholar and you know I was too prideful to say I didn’t know so I made up answers.
Jonathan: They would come back to me and say “I found something different here than you told me.” And I mean it was embarrassing. So that’s one very very important point to mention. I want you Christian listener to realized that 90% chance or better that the Jewish person that God has put across your path does not know the scriptures. They don’t know Isaiah 53, they don’t even know who Isaiah is. So you need to understand that is a misconception and you need to share with the Jewish person as you would share with anyone else that needs God and does not understand His path of salvation through Messiah Jesus. The second misconception is that Jewish people have their own path to God. That they do not need Jesus as Savior; that Judaism itself as a religion is complete and has a path of salvation. That is a doctrine of devils, it is absolutely false, the Bible’s clear that “There’s one Name given under heaven by which we must be saved.” And it’s the person of Jesus or Yeshua or whatever you want to call Him. He is God’s only plan for the Jew and Gentile. In fact Paul wrote as Apostle to the Gentiles in Roman’s 1:18 that the gospel is “The power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes to the Jew first and then to the Gentile.” So that is a very very serious misconception. Jewish people need Jesus, need Yeshua, need Christ the Messiah for salvation the same as anyone else. What’s another misconception Sid that I talked about let’s see theres…
Sid: Well, you didn’t talk about this but I can tell you something that is really the worst, the pits is what’s known as Replacement Theology. Somehow the Christian has replaced the Jew.
Jonathan: Many Christians believe and this is taught Sid and this is shocking to me, this is taught in Evangelical Charismatic or Pentecostal Christianity by well meaning teachers. I believe that they’re well meaning but they’re really are deceived. And this is a teaching that’s been passed down through the church for 2000 years now; almost 2000 years. That because the Jewish people rebelled against the prophets and God, because of their rejection of Jesus 2000 years ago that God has finished with them, He has rejected them and now He has replaced them with a new people the church, or Christians or Gentiles or whatever. Paul states unequivocally God is not finished with the Jewish people. Has God rejected His people he says in Roman’s 11:1 “God forbid.” And then he points to himself he says, “I myself is an Israelite, a Jew and God has not forsaken me.” And then he repeats the second time “God has not rejected his people.” Jeremiah 31 verses 35 – 37 couldn’t be any clearer “As long as the sun shines by day and the moon and stars shine by night they declare as a testimony, as a visible testimony that I have not rejected my people Israel sayeth the Lord; and only if these cease to be will Israel cease to be a nation.” Could not be any clearer. Now there’s various forms of replacement theology as simple or as naive as Christians believing that Jewish people have all rejected the gospel so there’s no reason to share with them. False, again it’s a deception from Satan, and my friend God has put that Jewish person in your path for a reason, am I right Sid?
Sid: For sure, but there’s another question, have you ever heard the misconceptions the Jews killed Christ?
Jonathan: All, the time as a matter of fact many many friends have as part of their testimony that they went through their childhood being spit upon, being hit or ostracized, beat up because they were blamed for killing Christ. Again, a misconception and a lie. The Bible is very very clear that Jesus laid down His life for us. Who killed Jesus? We all did.
Sid: You know the greatest summary that I’ve found Jonathan on that is Acts…jot this down Mishpochah Acts chapter 4 verse 27 tells you who killed Jesus. This is what it says “For truly, against your holy servant Jesus whom you anointed both Herod…awe he’s the guilty party and Pontius Pilate with the Gentiles, oh it’s the Gentiles that did it and the people of Israel. Well, if you get the Gentiles and the people of Israel together you got the whole world!
Jonathan: Yeah, we’re all responsible. And also 1st Corinthians 15 is very clear. Paul says “That which I receive I pass on to you how Jesus died for our sins according to scripture.” What scripture Sid, Isaiah 53 He laid down His life, He was pierced through for our inquiries and by His wounds, or by His stripes we are healed.
Sid: Jonathan let’s move to another area for a moment, you had said to me that you were witnessed to as a young man; you went to a camp called Young Life but people were afraid to ask you to receive the Lord. Then you went into you know into college, you got involved in drugs and dealing and you had a friend a druggy friend by the name of Susie and one day you walked into some place and you bumped into Susie and what happened.
Jonathan: My goodness Sid I’m going to invite you to some churches I’m supposed to speak at to give my testimony.
Sid: That’s my thing.
Sid: I know your testimony, I think better than you do but go ahead.
Jonathan: I’ll take a vacation. Susie, when I bumped into Susie it was undeniable that there was a radical change in her life. She had been a drug abuser, she was a…had dropped out of college, she was emaciated when I left seeing her on her way to an early grave. But when I saw her months later on the street she was glowing; she looked healthy, she looked clean and I could not help but ask the question “Susie what happened to you?” And she told me and she told me, and she told me. I mean I regretted ever having asked her because every night she’d call me and tell me how Jesus had changed her life, delivered her completely from drugs. And I’m talking about a drug abuser; a drug addict completely delivered from drugs cleaned up and all she talked about was Jesus Sid and I was…I became her number one target. And she did not stop until I finally went to a Bible study with her where I almost without realizing accepted Jesus into my heart.
Sid: You know Mishpochah has hit on the nerve, the best way to reach Jewish people with the gospel are changed lives, signs and wonders. That’s what grabbed his attention. Good stories Jewish people will read.
Sid: Now I’m speaking all this week to Tommy Almonte who was born in the Dominion Republic but a young age went to the United States; backslidden and had an encounter with the Holy Spirit and he says everyone could and should and must. But a question comes to mind for many of our listeners Tommy and that is you talked about the wonderful relationship you have with the Holy Spirit what about Jesus, what about God the Father do you talk to them.
Tommy: Yes I do and it wasn’t until I feel like in the beginning of my relationship with the Holy Spirit He did introduce me in a way to Jesus and God the Father. Because He wanted me to get it; meaning He wanted me to know that not only did He want to have intimacy with me but He was the person that was standing by Jesus to lead us into the presence of Jesus. And once I realize that I remember one day I walked in to spend time with the Holy Spirit and I felt myself in the presence of God. Now when I say in the presence of God I mean literally I was standing quite a distance maybe 2 or 3 yards a way from the throne of God and He said to me “Hold my hand and as I hold His hand He started walking closer to the throne of God. In the distance I knew that there was someone sitting in the seat of the throne. And someone standing next to Him and I’m walking closer and closer and I felt myself standing literally before God Almighty and Jesus. You know any time I had this encounter with God I never had any encounter with God that’s outside of what’s in the Bible. The Bible says that the Father is seated in the throne in Heaven and that Jesus is now at His right hand and is seating. And as I was standing there the Holy Spirit released my hand and I was standing there. He was standing behind me the Holy Spirit and let me go and take a couple more steps and Jesus came down from..He was next to the Father, He walked towards me and He said “We want…we want you to have a ministry where you can touch people. And He shared a couple of other things there that were more personal. And while He was speaking to me I laughed, but I laughed out of unbelief because He was saying speaking things into my life that were not yet in place.
Sid: Can you tell me one thing that just seemed outrageous to you at the time.
Tommy: Well, as He was speaking to me I was able to see what he was saying He said you will be able to ministering to 100′s, 1000′s of people and I laughed. And my laugh was more on unbelief and when I laughed it was the first time that God Almighty had spoken. And I asked Jesus “How do you plan to accomplish this? Now here I’m in the presence of God Almighty and I look to Jesus and I say “How do You plan to accomplish this?” My question was more out of fear; I was saying I”m not capable of doing what You said that I’m going to be doing you know. All of my…you know as you’re growing up you have all these views of who you are and a lot of those you know are negative you know…
Sid: Of what you can’t do.
Tommy: Of what you can’t do right and speaking of things that I was able to do that I just couldn’t see how that was going to come into place.
Sid: Did He tell you that you would have a deliverance ministry?
Tommy: No, he says that you will have a ministry that would touch 100′s of 1000′s of people. And at that point I just said “Well, I don’t know how…and literally I verbalized that “How do you plan to do that? And God Almighty He was quiet the whole time and He said “I’m in control.” Now you have to understand when he speaks in Heaven, Heaven stops.
Tommy: Everything in Heaven comes to a pause, I felt like everything that was taking place in Heaven stops, His voice was…the only way that I could describe the voice of God is like a train that is coming down and along with the train there is mighty waters are coming down. And for us it’s like thunder, His voice is such that when He spoke; whey He say “I’m in control.” Everything stopped and you can sense in the spirit that everything has stopped. But when He said that I realized that my question to Jesus was a question of questioning whether they were capable of doing this. And here I’m in the presence of God and I’m questioning whether they were capable of doing what they were saying it was going to happen in my life. But when I came back into my room I was numb physically I was numb for about 3 days. The first day I literally I said to my wife, “I can’t feel my legs that I’m numb to the point that I’m walking but I don’t feel like I am walking. My hands were numb, my face as numb; after 3 or 4 days slowly it started to fade away into my same normal feeling on my flesh.
Sid: Any idea why this was going on?
Tommy: You know all I can say is that our flesh, our flesh is flesh and when you’re in the presence of God that His presence is such that your flesh cannot stand it. It literally…being in the presence of God your flesh…I mean our flesh was not meant to be in His presence and so you know anytime that I go in the presence of God when I come back into the room I cannot feel my flesh. Now it’s not like the first time it happened but my flesh is numb and I can feel like it takes hours to come back into the normal feeling of my flesh and to be honest I can’t explain other than our flesh when it’s in the presence of God it has to you know it has to bow to the presence that’s greater than what our flesh has ever encountered.
Sid: Tommy you told me that the Holy Spirit had a message for the people that are listening before we started this week; would you tell me what the Holy Spirit said.
Tommy: You know I was thinking about talking to you Sid you know that the Holy Spirit wanted me to let everyone know that we were not created we were not created for salvation. In our mind we think that once we become saved and we ask Jesus to come into our hearts that’s the end of the rope. But that’s not why we were created. We were created for intimacy; it was the purpose why you and I were created to have an intimate relationship with God. I feel that sometimes we settle for less; because once we accept Jesus Christ we say “Well, we have all I need and this is where I’m going to stop.” And the Holy Spirit is saying to you “Don’t settle for less.” I believe and I know that when we die here on the earth that level of intimacy where you end here on the earth is the same level of intimacy that you will carry to Heaven. If you have a close relationship with God here on the earth, that is the same level of intimacy that you will carry and breathe into Heaven. Some of us are going to have to go to the beginning of getting to know God because…
Sid: You know what someone told me and I’m curious what your spin is on this “That wherever you start in Heaven people that start a head of you you will never past those people.
Tommy: You will never past those people.
Sid: God told you that.
Tommy: And this is why, if I know you Sid for 20 years and someone comes and meets you today for the first time the gap of relationship between 1 and 20 years is such that if I continue to move forward within that relationship with you…
Sid: Oh, I’m sorry we’re out of time but I catch what you are saying…
SID: Well I’ll tell you. If I had had the vision that David Jones had, I wouldn’t need some uncle to tell me to serve God. I would be running to serve God. But David, he becomes a Marine. He’s interested in his life. He was continually, continuously going down, down, down. And one day he’s at work. Someone invites him to go to church with him and he had an accident that almost cost him his life. What happened to you?
DAVID: The boss brought me a big old check. And I said, “Me and my brother were going out and partying tonight.” And I thought about it. And then I said [to myself], “No, I’m not going.” I made my mind up not to go. I fell on the conveyor and I tried to lift myself up, Sid, but I had no strength. Then God Himself allowed me to hear my heartbeat. I said, “Oh no.” I started fading out and I wanted to lift myself up, but I had no strength. I said, “Oh no, please.” I began to pray, “Give me another chance, Lord, please, please Lord. I’ll go with this man. Give me another chance.” And I came back and all the people were around me and said, “Are you all right?” Don’t do me like this. I’ll go with this man to church. The next thing I know, I’m going home, I’m getting ready. Here comes my friends, coming to party. They were like, hey man. I said, I went out on the porch. I said, “Hold it. I’m not going with you guys today.” I said, “I’m going to the House of God. You all know I almost died today.” And they were like, what? They said, “It’s Friday. It’s our party night.” I said, “God can keep my heart beating and I’m going to the House of God.” And I went. And I sat in the back of the church and the preacher was preaching. And as he began to preach, all the conviction started hitting me. And I said, I got to save myself. And so I got up and as I started walking towards him all of a sudden, Sid, the devil said, “Get out of this church. Run out of here. Get out of here!” And my legs began to get weak. And I was like, no, no, I know what’s right. I’ve been brought up in church as a little boy. I remember. I remember. And when I got to him he said, “Son, do you want to be saved?” I said, “Sir, yes sir, I want to be saved.” And I went to grab his hand and all of a sudden the power of God hit me and I flew straight back. But when I hit the floor, there were no ushers there to let me down easy. But it was like falling on a bed of cotton. Then all of a sudden the girls were looking at me. Back then, I thought I was a cool daddy. And I said, let me get off the floor with these beautiful girls looking at me. Then the supernatural began, and it began in my belly. Then it got in my chest. Then it got in my throat. Then my tongue began to cling to the roof of my mouth. Then I began to hear myself speak a heavenly language. That’s the spirit of God. Pretty soon I didn’t care about those girls. All of a sudden, I started experiencing such joy, such peace I had never experienced before. I was addicted to crack cocaine, acid, mescaline, THC, alcohol. But God delivered me. Now I have a joy and a peace I’ve never experienced before. And I got off the floor and I was just speaking in my heavenly ways. And then the ushers were trying to grab me. The pastor said, “Let him go. God has him now.”
SID: Okay. Now what happened to your alcohol addiction? What happened to your drug addiction?
DAVID: Totally gone. Instantly healed by the mighty God of Israel.
SID: I’ll tell you, when God can take someone like him and flatten him on the floor, have him speak in a supernatural language and get delivered, and have him, now it’s been like 25 years you’ve been in ministry.
SID: But I’m going to take you to February 2012. What happened to you?
DAVID: Well I got up to go use the restroom. And as I was coming back and I was getting back in bed, it’s like someone grabbed me by the arm and shook me. Next thing I know, I’m catapulted into an open vision and I’m hovering about 200 feet over the earth. And I can see all the beautiful skies and the sun, and all the happiness, people going to and fro, mothers with their children going into the grocery stores, people pumping gas, businessmen with their ties and briefcase going into the buildings. And all of a sudden, a thick darkness and clouds started appearing upon the earth. And then all of a sudden there was a sound from Heaven, a sound that I have never heard before in all my born days. It was like seven claps of thunder uttered into one. The sound was so deafening, not only did it pierce the ears of all mankind, but it began to pierce them that when they heard it their bodies began to shake and quake. This sound was so deafening, people began to scream. Then all of a sudden like someone took a razor blade and split the heavens, here come the Son of God with all his bands of angels and all of his glory. Oh Sid, and the colors were glorious, splendid, magnificent, glorious, the blues, the golds, the greens. I had never seen such colors like this. And he was coming speedily on the earth. Then people began to urinate on themselves and scream. And then one man said, “No, no, no, wait, wait, wait. I thought I had time. I thought I had time.” But too late. All time had ran out for all mankind. Another man, he was like an Indian guy, real short, he began to say, “No, no, no, this is a dream, this is a dream. I’m going to wake up.” But Sid, he couldn’t wake up because he was already woke. Then I heard a voice from Heaven say, “This is the day of the Lord! It has come!” And I came out of the vision, trembling on the floor, and I’m shaking and quaking within myself. And I began to pray for me. I didn’t pray for my mother, my wife, my children. I began to intercede for me because God allowed me to see such terror. Terror. We know God is love and He’s mercy, and He’s long suffering, and He’s gentle, and He’s kind. But Sid, there’s another part of God that mankind has not been introduced to, and that’s the terror of the Lord. Such terror, such horror. And I began to repent over my own life. Lord, save me. God, forgive me. Because He allowed me to sense what everyone was feeling. And I began to repent. Because I said, “God, I want to be pleasing to you, Lord. If I have hurt you or come against you in any shape or form, please forgive me, Lord. Lord, please allow me to be counted worthy to go back with you. I have seen the Day of the Lord.” Then the Lord spoke to me saying, “I charge you now to warn all mankind,” and said it like this, “I’m coming, I’m coming, I’m coming, I’m coming. Whether they would believe you or not, give them warning from you. Whether they receive you or not, give them warning from you. For the day of the Lord is at hand.”
SID: You heard that. Now what are you going to do about it? I’m going to tell you something. If you are lukewarm, you are backslidden and you are not prepared for the Day of the Lord, you are either going forward red hot for the Messiah or deceived. No in-between. Believe that Jesus died for your sins. Repent. Tell him you’re sorry and believe that he has washed your sins away as if they never existed. And then say, “Jesus,” with your own words, “I make you my Lord. Come and live inside of me. I make you Lord of my life.” Do that now. God has given you a very strong charge to tell people. But simultaneously God is telling many people even that are not believers in the Messiah the same thing. For instance, orthodox Jews in Israel are being told that we are in footsteps of the coming of the Messiah. In other words, they know something is up in the air. About the same time that David had that dream, I had a dream. And in my dream, you know, I wasn’t even, David, I wasn’t even thinking about this. It didn’t cross my radar. If someone had said to me, the Lord is coming back soon, I would have said, yes, I believe that. But you know, I’m 73. In my heart of hearts, I’m not sure I really believe that. You’re supposed to say he’s coming back soon. You’re supposed to live like he’s coming back soon. But there just seems to be so much that has to be done. But it’s not up to my peanut brain. It’s up to God. And this is what God showed me in the dream. He said to me three times, “I’m coming back soon. I’m coming back soon. I’m coming back soon” David, between you and me, what did you believe in your heart about the Lord’s return? I mean, between the two of us.
DAVID: Well I didn’t think it was close. I mean, according to all the scriptures and the Revelation teachers and the scholars, I knew it was gonna come and I wasn’t sure. But now I’m absolutely sure that He’s coming at an hour and at a time when man least expects it.
SID: What should someone do that’s just heard this message and believes it’s from God?
DAVID: Set their house in order. Whatever they need to do for God they must do quickly. If they need to ask for forgiveness, they better do it quickly. If they need to go to their mother, father, sister, brother, ask for forgiveness, they need to go get things straight before it’s everlasting too late, because the terror of the Lord is like something I never seen in my entire life.
SID: Okay. Let me take you. I know you’re living a holy life. I know that you love God. Right after that open vision, what did you do?
DAVID: I began to repent and cry out to God.
SID: But you repented. I know you. You repented way before a vision like that.
DAVID: Not like this one. Not like this one. Because he made it so real to me. It was so real and it was so overpowering and overtaking that men and women could not even think straight when it happened. And He came so suddenly just like He said He would.
SID: Why is there so much urgency in giving this message? I mean, I’ve never seen someone with such a compulsion like it, an urgency in your voice. Why?
DAVID: Because there’s an unction within, inside of me that I don’t have much time. You don’t much time. We don’t have much time. And I must preach it and I must proclaim it just as Noah did for 120 years it was going to rain. But they turned a deaf ear to Noah. They didn’t believe that man of God. But the Bible said, God said unto Noah, “Come you and your family into the ark. For He opened up the windows of Heaven. And the windows of Heaven poured out a water upon the land. And everything that breathed through nostrils died just like God said it would.
SID: When you share this message, things have happened to people, have you ever seen people that just moan and wail, and run forward?
DAVID: Sid, I was invited to come preach a week revival. I ended up preaching 21 days. While I was preaching the first night, people began to wail. Football players began to wail, running to the altar screaming, children, teenagers wailing and repenting, and a lot of them were Christians. The pastor himself, mighty man of God, and his wife just ran towards him and said, “Have mercy on our souls, O God. Spare us. Forgive us, O God,” and fell to his face. I had never seen such conviction before in my entire life.
SID: You were telling me about an evangelist that was one at one of your meetings. What happened?
DAVID: Well after meeting, you know, first of all, when I did the altar call everybody came: the pastor, the church, the wife, everybody. The guest ministers, everybody came. And this evangelist left the meeting, and you know, this is exactly what he said, “David scared the hell out of me with that message.” He had stopped preaching. He wasn’t preaching. Next thing you know he started preaching, doing revivals. Eight months later, he died.
SID: Did you just hear what he said? Did you just hear what he said? You see, the Bible says, you do not know when your end will come. Eight months later, he died and all, there’s someone looking at me right now, and you think that you’re all alone. No. The reason that you’re watching this show is for this moment. You think God isn’t interested in you? He has you watching us right now for this moment. It’s your life. It’s your eternity. It’s your purpose. I have to tell you this. If there was no fear of not knowing God, no fear of going to Hell, I would serve God because He’s pure love. I would serve God because compared to knowing God, that’s everything. And compared to everything that’s nothing. I want you to choose this day who you are going to serve. But as for me and my house, we’re going to serve the Living God.
Sid: I have got on the telephone Felix Halpern; I’ve been talking to Felix and his wife Bonnie; both are Jewish and both understand the One New Man. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Felix whose father was a Holocaust survivor. His grandfather was a Rabbi in Germany; literally he was raised to almost deny his Jewishness; to not talk about his Jewishness because of the pain that his father went through. But when he became a believer in the Messiah he prayed a strange prayer to God. He said, “God restore to me the ability to see the scriptures through my grandfather’s eyes.” Then God spoke audibly to him; I mean when you say audibly Felix was it really loud?
Felix: Sid it was as real as we are speaking on the phone right now. It’s as if you would bend down and speak right into my ear; it was that real and it was very firm and it was very direct and it jolted me out of my sleep at 3:00 AM. And I went to ask my wife “What did you say?” And she was sleeping and I had to wake her up. I remember even as we speak as clear as the moment that it happened. And what was so confirming to that event were the supernatural doors that began to open.
Sid: Before you state that tell me the exact words you heard.
Felix: “I am calling you to the Jewish people;” as simple as that. I am calling you…
Sid: But wait a second you and your wife have a nice ministry to the street people and you’re satisfied in your satisfied in your ministry. This is a real change especially with your mentality.
Felix: Exactly but the truth of the matter is I had never been satisfied, the interesting thing about my journey through the life of the church at that time. We were involved in many, many ministries within the church itself and involved in lay leadership. And when I look back I see the Lord’s hand on it how He blessed it. But within a very short period of time it never held me; I was always a sense of discontentment even in the midst of the blessing there was something that did not really hook my heart and my entire being until the Lord called me back to our people.
Sid: I got a question if in one sentence you were to tell me or a couple of sentences what is the best way to reach Jewish people with the gospel what would you say Felix?
Felix: I believe number 1 what our people are looking for are Jewish people that have intimate and passionate relationship with the God of Isaac, Abraham and Jacob. That it isn’t so much in the abundance of the words that we speak but it’s the life that we live. When Yeshua said “The Kingdom is upon you I believe that Kingdom brought a quality of life that life that was filled with the supernatural; the empowerment over sickness and disease” and what He intended for us needs to be manifested in our life. Because that is what truly connects to a Jewish person. Because the Jewish person has a DNA within them to connect with the Kingdom of God. And that is associated with the power of the Kingdom; the signs and wonders of the Kingdom and this is who God is.
Sid: Do you think that it has to do with the scripture “The Jew requires a sign?”
Felix: Absolutely, I believe we live in a day that one scripture that has always gripped me as the Lord was calling us to our people was “After this, I will return and rebuild David’s fallen tent.” There is a call bringing His people back into the tent of David. And in that tent of David there is intimacy with God; there is empowerment.
Sid: Isn’t that what everyone wants.
Felix: Everyone wants.
Sid: But most people that aren’t believers they don’t want anything to do with religion but they want intimacy with God. And I think that most Christians have sold God short not realizing that that’s what God’s heart is; He wants intimacy with them.
Felix: Absolutely, he wants to walk with us through the Ruach haKodesh the Holy Spirit as God walked in the garden. We have that ability and I believe that that is at the heart of millions of Jewish people’s pursuit of the supernatural but they go to the occult, they go to eastern religions. And as we speak here we have the real thing.
Sid: Speaking of the supernatural things you were at a prayer meeting you were praying for the Jewish people to know the Messiah and a strange phenomena occurred. Tell me about that.
Felix: Well, in between 1996 and 1997 shortly after we were swept into a supernatural revival of our own lives. In that year I was still working in New York, I was still active in the church. But obviously our whole lives had been undergoing transformation and God was doing an enormous work. Three things happened, one of those things in that period of time; I believe all go back to the God’s hands, his stamp upon our calling. And that was when we were in a prayer meeting we were with total four of us sitting down in our living room and I began to feel a heavy bead of oil on my head. And I was startled by that at first, at this point I didn’t open my eyes; I didn’t want to open my eyes actually I wanted to know who was pouring oil on my head.
Felix: But I didn’t want to open my eyes and it kept going. And then I began to experiment with this oil if you will. I said “You know what and I’m going to move a little to the left to see if this oil runs to the left.” And all along everyone was deeply in prayer and my eyes are closed and I would do the same thing to the right and then I would move back my whole body to see if it would run to the back. While this was all going on and within a second or two or within that time period we were coming out of prayer. And I was for some reason there was a fear that came over me because I didn’t know what was going on because I wasn’t sure if it was someone pouring oil on my head or not. But I began to share you cannot believe what has been going on. And they opened their eyes and they saw this oil and I began to relate my experience and at the same time the person that was there began to share the vision that she saw. And that vision was an angel in the center holding an urn anointing me for the ministry to our people. And again, once again there were signs and wonders and conformations following that supernatural sign.
Sid: Now you started a one a month healing meeting, what types of miracles did you start seeing?
Felix: Well, we saw people healed of prostate cancer; multiple sclerosis. One of the most dramatic events in our meeting was a Jewish man who for many many many years had been taking medication for every… 17 years in fact, taking medication for a half a dozen different ailments and he brought into the service that day two brown bags of drugs; 17 different prescriptions that he was on for years. And the power of God just came over him; we prayed for healing and we put those medications on the altar and from this day he takes none.
Sid: Hm. Would you put Bonnie on I have a quick question for her?
Sid: Bonnie we were talking about your healing meeting that was started and the miracles you began seeing but something that interested me is that about a year after God spoke audibly to Felix to go to the Jewish people you heard the name of your congregation. What did you hear?
Bonnie: Well, we were riding in the car my husband, my daughter and myself and we heard a word that sounded like the word “Chofesh.” Almost like a Hebrew dialect and we both said “What was that?” And neither of us said anything to each other and we knew the presence of God and we knew the presence of the supernatural and we felt obviously that an angel had spoken a word to us but we had no clue what the word meant. And so we asked people and nobody knew what it meant and we found a Hebrew teacher and at the Hebrew teacher and asked the Hebrew teacher what the word meant and she said “Freedom.” And we named the congregation “Beth Chofesh” House of Freedom not understanding the power of what that was going to be. Well after we named it that so many people got the name wrong they couldn’t say it so we decided we were going to change it three different times and literally a shaking went on within us. Fear to dare change that name and that was the name given by good because we do have a house of freedom.
Sid: You know most religion is made up of so many rules and traditions and bondages. It’s in Judaism, Islam and Christianity. This Freedom has got to get someone’s attention.
Bonnie: It’s amazing; it’s amazing but that’s what scripture tells us it would be. Because where the Spirit of the Lord is there’s Freedom.
Sid: I’m sorry Bonnie we’re out of time; we have enough freedom but we just don’t have enough time.
Sid: Guess what Mishpochah there is an outpouring of God’s Spirit just coming through your radio or through the tape or through the CD and in His presence all things are possible. There are people being healed of pains throughout their entire body; there’s for instance when I just started I saw someone is being healed and I say I saw I didn’t I heard. I heard someone has a pain in their neck if you will just move your head you’ll see that pain is gone. And there’s another person and it could be the same person also that has a pain in their back, and if you will bend over, oh it’s so wonderful the anointing is moving into the hip area. All pain must go the two cannot coexist. I’m speaking to Peter Horrobin; I have him on the telephone. He’s from Lancaster, England he has been in the healing ministry for 20 years and he has uncovered keys. You know there’s such a… Peter there’s such a presence of God on our discussion that I couldn’t help but move in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. On yesterday’s broadcast, which pray… I’m not apologizing what I’m saying is it’s the atmosphere to move in these gifts. And on yesterday’s broadcast you started a story of one of the first revelations that God gave you about physical healing; I wonder if you would repeat what you started and then finish it.
Peter: Yes as a young man I was restoring an old car which had been vandalized and set on fire. I wanted to rebuild this old British sports car and when I started down to the bashed steel chassis I saw that the chassis was bent. And actually I began to cry because I put a lot of work into this and I thought I’d never be able to restore this old car because the chassis is bent and it will never drive straight it will break and it will never work. And God sometimes gets to me when my defenses are down. It was at that moment that God spoke right into my spirit with these words and He said “You could restore this broken car but I can restore broken lives.” Then He asked me the question, “Which is more important? The fact that the car’s never yet been fully restored is the answer, broken lives are far more important than broken lives are far more important than broken cars.” God is able to restore them. He’s able to actually deal with the underlying issues that keep people in brokenness and those underlying issues can be totally devastating. Tell you about Linda she’s from Australia; she was a nurse who went out on a hike with her young people from her church and it was a night hike in the Blue Mountains. And as she was walking along this path at night in the dark she step one side and she didn’t realize that there was a ravine right by the edge of the park. She stepped into open space and she fell 35 feet onto jagged rocks, she broke her back in four places. A helicopter had to lift her out 10 hours later and she was number one headline on the news that night. Doctors did everything they could for her; you know 3 years later when we first met her she was in continuous pain; she couldn’t walk more than 25 yards without the pain getting so great she had to stop. She was registered disabled with the Australian government; she was on a lifetime pension; she’d lost all hope of ever getting married, ever having children. Her world was left at the bottom of that ravine. As she began to talk to her about healing you know we said to her “Linda would you like us to pray for you?” And she said “No thank you very much.” I said “Why not?” She said “Because so many people have prayed for me and I’ve not been healed, I don’t want to find out again that God doesn’t love me.” And that’s a very powerful statement, and she come unto self-condemnation that God can’t possibly love her because she hasn’t been healed. You know many people the key to their healing is an understanding of what needs to be done in order to receive the healing. You know scripture says “Without knowledge, without understanding people are perishing” and there are many people today that are perishing, they’re remaining sick because of they have actually not understood the keys. When we came to pray for Linda this accident and trauma is something we teach a lot into which were not what precisely what we’re talking about right now. But as we explained to her what happens in trauma she began to get understanding, her hope began to rise; and when we began to pray we came to the key issue. Have you forgiven the man who led you along that path, there was a youth leader at the church who never warned you that there was a ravine and she had never done so. And it was a hard thing to do because the whole of her life before her was ruined because of this. But she came to that place and she spoke out in that forgiveness and as she spoke out in that forgiveness the power of God came upon her and she began to be released for the healing. Two hours later we anointing her with oil for the physical healing as we dealt with a lot of deliverance of her infirmity and fear that had come in as she fell off the rocks. Then we watched as God did a miracle it was an absolute miracle; it was as if angels were manipulating her body.
Peter: Stretching out the muscles and the bones and putting them back into place, and then she stood up and she said “I am healed.” And she was able then to walk normally, she was able to do everything that she possibly could; and she then had a problem because being healed she also had a lifetime disability pension. And she thought “Well…
Sid: Well, some people would say “Well, that’s no problem but a lifetime disability pension there’s a little issue involved.”
Peter: There is she faced the temptation because Satan came to her said “Look you can now serve God for free.” And she realized that this was a real temptation but if she actually kept her pension she’d be actually living in deception; she was healed and she didn’t need the pension. And she went back to the Australian government and they had never before ever taken anybody off a lifetime disability pension. It takes three different consultants to actually independently assess whether or not that person could ever walk again or be healed of something like that. And they all said that she could never be healed. So they had to have three different medical consultants then to say “She is healed.” All three said she was and she came off that pension and went back to work as a District Nurse in the Australian and Outback. And while she was nursing she met the son of one of the patients she was calling on day by day and fell in love with him; married him and last September she gave birth to her first daughter. And her daughter was born on the exact date of her healing 8 years previously, it began with forgiveness.
Sid: Peter as you’re talking I think you might be able to help me with something I’m struggling with. What I’m struggling with is I really want to walk; my heart’s desire is to walk in what we call in Judaism the Shemah, “Love God with all my heart, spirit, soul, body, strength and love my neighbor as myself.”
Sid: And yet I see things that are wrong and I feel like with a public exposure such as I have I should state these things that are wrong. I guess it’s got to do with the subject of judging. Where does someone draw the line, do you understand what I’m saying?
Peter: Well, in the scriptures there are two different meanings of the word judge; there’s one which is the judgment, say you’re putting somebody under condemnation and there’s the other when you’re actually called to discern to judge things, to test things. We need to separate out between those two things and unless we actually test we are going to be deceived ourselves. From the scripture command we test all things and we must do that, so that we don’t just take everything said at face value we have to test it against the word of God. If what they’re saying is ungodly and in harmony with scripture then we have to reject it. But that doesn’t mean to say that we reject the person; we don’t condemn the person we may disagree with them and we can separate out between the sin and the sinner. And we don’t have to come…
Sid: Yes, but if I were to judge the sin that person is not going to be very happy with me.
Peter: No, God is the judge and we got to leave him; “Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord,” so the consequence of a person’s sin is actually ultimately God’s responsibility. We do have to discern and to ask the Holy Spirit to show us the difference between right and wrong; between truth and error so we don’t walk into it ourselves. Now we can exercise judgments against other people with our attitudes and our words and our thoughts. But there’s a scripture in James 2:12 which says “Speak and act as those that are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom because judgment without mercy will be show to anyone that has not been merciful.” So we need to be merciful to other people and to recognize that people they may come to their own conclusions they’ve not had the experience and the training the understanding that perhaps you’ve had. Therefore they haven’t got the ability to be able to make the decisions and the choices that you have. So we cannot be merciful on the Sunday, that doesn’t necessarily say that we have to agree with them.
Sid: Change subject just for a second, what about someone that is living in a continuously abusive situation such as a spouse or parents that are verbally assaulting them and hurting them with their words how does someone forgive if it’s on going?
Peter: Well, there’s two different aspects of this which Jesus referred to when Simon Peter said “How often do I need to forgive my brother?” Simon probably thought of a big number 7 times Lord. And Jesus smiled and He said “Actually Simon 70 times 7” which I’m sure you appreciate as a Jewish phrase in its own count.
Peter: It means, millions forget counting and so Jesus really saying to Simon look “Don’t even start to think about how often you need to forgive, now there’s two sides to this and both of them are very different and they’re very important. Some people are continuously having to forgive somebody because they keep on doing something wrong. Others there may have been only one terribly devastating experience in the person’s life, there might have been a terrible abuse or rape or something like that, and the circumstance in life keep on reminding you of it and you have to keep on forgiving. You may have to forgive a person many many times for the same thing, and there are those two different aspects. So somebody has had a devastating experience that seems to have destroyed most of their life; they need to keep on forgiving. Somebody else is in a continuous experience and they have to keep on forgiving what is actually happening. But you know there’s a difference between having to forgive, which we do; but also being able to put up Godly shutters and say “No more.” And some time there’s some very false teaching around in terms of forgiveness that says that “I have to forgive and continue to be abused.” There is no scripture which actually tells us…
Sid: Peter we’re out of time I want to pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast.