SID: So Zona Hayes-Morrow had seen miracles her whole life. But she gets married young. Her husband goes off to war, divorces her and she goes out having fun, clubbing. But a couple by the name of the Goodwin’s, gave your father a prophetic word. What was that?
ZONA: The Goodwin’s gave my father a word. The word said, “The thing that you want the most in the world is not going to happen. She’s gone too far. She can’t come back on her own. When she comes in at two or three o’clock in the morning you tell her you love her and you tell her I love her, and then you shut up, because she doesn’t believe anybody loves her.” And that’s what my dad did. He created an atmosphere of love. He’d stopped loving me because he was frustrated, because I was a backslid and I wasn’t raised that way. And he created an atmosphere of the love of God in our home.
SID: Now one day after that atmosphere of love, he puts his hands and prays for Zona on the bed. She’s not there. She’s out clubbing. She gets home. What happened, Zona?
ZONA: When I got, right before he put his hands on the bed, Sid, he asked me, he said, “What is He going to have to do, what is God going to have to do bring you back to me.” I said, “He’ll have to knock me in the head.” I said, “Dad, the church members haven’t even come to see me in three years and I see them at the club.” I said, “So why would I want to serve their God?” And so he said, “Well.” So when I left he said, he put his hands on the bed. He said, “God, you heard her. You do what you have to bring her back.” Four o’clock in the morning I came in. I lay down on the bed. I was on my right side and turned over, and my eyes were on a belt buckle.
SID: Who’s belt buckle.
ZONA: My angel. He was as big as three men. And so his belt buckle was even with the edge of my bed. Well you can imagine how big it was.
SID: Must have been pretty intimidating. You’re a short woman.
ZONA: And he was sitting Indian style and put his right leg over his left, and he got up, and he just stood there and looked at me. I tried to scream but nothing would come out. And he walked out of the room. I heard him walk down the hall. And I walked down the hall, and he was waiting at the back door, and he walked through the wall. Well that just, I ran to my dad’s room and he said, “Do you know who that was?” And I said, “Who?” He said, “Your angel.” I said, “I don’t want him. He’s too big.” I said, “I want a little one with wings.” But he said, “No, it takes a big one for you. You’re so flaky.”
SID: How would you like to pray for your backslidden children and have an angel that big come in. It was very intimidating to you.
ZONA: It was very intimidating.
SID: And then of course, she very quickly became a believer in the Messiah. Why, you saw the Spirit of Death three times in your life. Tell me what the Spirit of Death looks like. I can’t even comprehend.
ZONA: I saw the Spirit of Death the first time in Sheffield, Alabama. It walked through the wall and it said to me, he looked, he pointed his finger at me. He said, “I’m going to kill you because you’re the closest thing I can get to Norvel Hayes.” I wasn’t even in ministry then. He said, “Because you,” but he knew that eventually I would take the torch and be mentored by my father, which he’s my mentor, and because it works. What he teaches works and I’m going to teach it, and I teach it now.
SID: He has such passion against cancer, heart trouble. You have that same passion.
ZONA: I have that same passion. And let me tell you, I had an appointment at the doctor’s office and I had a sore on my foot. And the devil tries to sneak in any way he can. And I told him I was confirming my appointment, and something inside me, I had been doctoring a sore on my foot, and something inside of me said, it was the Holy Spirit, said, “Oh, I need for you to look at a place on my foot.” I went in and the doctor said, I wasn’t going tell him. I wasn’t going say anything. He said, “You want me to look at a place on your foot?” I said, “Yes, sir.” He looked at it and he said, “Surgery in the morning at eight o’clock.” It was three malignant cancer cells inside of my foot, I mean a micro inch, just micro from the bone. And they of course, and what did I do? I had to, God met me where my faith was because I didn’t even know anything was going on. But the devil meant to sneak in. But the Holy Spirit will speak through you when you give your life to Him, and He knows everything.
SID: Tell me about, I’m curious, what does the Spirit of Death look like?
ZONA: It looks like it just exactly, it’s black and it had, it pointed its finger. It has a hood. When I was in Birmingham, Alabama, the last time the Spirit of Death appeared to me, he stood right by my bed. I stood up out of my bed and I looked at him face to face. He said, “I’m going to kill you because you’re not carrying this message on how to make the devil leave you alone.” He said, “I’m not going to leave people alone.” I said, “Oh yeah, you’re going to leave. I bind you and I command you to go from me never to return again.” And you have to say it with authority because the devil works with authority. You don’t have to scream. It’s all in the way you say it. Because he’s under your feet and you have to tell the devil to go. The Spirit of Death, and he left in a split second and he’s never been back.
SID: Well you know, she has insight into how to fight in the invisible world. Most people, they get the doctor’s report. They have the symptoms inside of them and they don’t understand that the battle of faith is based on the Word of God in the invisible world, and they pray one prayer, they mean it and nothing happens. But you prayed over and over again. When we come back, I want you to talk to me about a couple of the life-threatening conditions you had and how you got rid of them in the power of Jesus. It’s different. You know, I was talking to her dad, Norvel Hayes, and he said to me, “Most Christians, even spirit-filled Christians, don’t understand how faith operates.” We’ll be right back.
SID: I’m so excited about what’s going to happen when you are cured and you are clean, and the changes that are going to happen in your marriage, in your family, in your community. But I am equally amazed at the research that you have, Dr. Weiss, on the brain. Tell me some of the things you found out.
DOUG: You know, you think this is new. But thousands of years ago, it says, when you sin sexually you sin against your own body, but I couldn’t have a theology professor or philosophy professor explain that to me. Now when I became a researcher in the field of sexuality, what happens is when we have a sexual encounter, we have the highest level of endorphins and [unintelligible]. These are brain chemicals. It’s the excitement center of the brain and boom, you literally attach and glue to whatever you’re looking at, whether it’s real or imaginary. So some of these teenagers at home looking at pornography are setting themselves up for failure later. You can attach to certain things. Like I know a guy, when he was a boy, he attached to brunettes or a certain body type and that’s what he did. And he married someone not like that. Right? Well one day he’s at work and a girl exactly like that walks into his life.
SID: So you’re saying the brain can’t distinguish between fantasy on the computer, the imagination, and the real life situation.
SID: So it was a time bomb.
DOUG: It was bang, you know. And so he instantly was attracted to her and instantly had an affair with her within a couple of weeks. Okay. Because she capitalized on his neurochemical reinforcement towards her, you know, ring the bell, feed the dog. Okay. So when he saw her, he salivated. And that’s why your husband is kind of doing this when he looks at that kind of thing. And so, and he’s been clean for now 15 years or so. All right. So there is healing and there’s hope. But we can actually prevent this stuff. There are teachings that can help our young men, and men, get involved. Get in the war. This is a war and every man needs to be in battle. Every wife needs to be asking the questions and helping your sons. This is time to do war back so that we don’t have these problems 30 years down the road.
SID: Now you used the phrase that I’ve used since then, that I love. And that is, every husband that I’m talking to right now, you have a different father-in-law than you think. Let me tell you who our father-in-law is. God is your father-in-law. You better watch what you do to your wife. That is powerful.
DOUG: Oh yeah. Marriage is three people. It’s you, your spouse and God. Even Christians define marriage between a man and a woman. That’s not biblical and it’s not supernatural. Supernatural is God, a man and a woman. Now that marriage, that tri-unity, that trinity on Earth as it is in Heaven is power, but it needs to have purity. Okay.
SID: Okay. When a family is walking in purity and you talked earlier about the secret sins that no one knows. But when a family is walking in purity, what changes usually occur in that family?
DOUG: Well in that family, it’s usually the environment. Where there’s no secrets there’s going to be honesty. You can be flawed and loved. You can be celebrated and cared for. Okay. But they’re going to be mature. What happens is, Sid, when someone gets into this kind of sexual sin, it robs them of emotional, spiritual and moral development. That’s why you have people who are like men of God going down and seeing prostitutes. Like, how do they get there? Because their moral and spiritual development erodes when the sexual sin comes into your life, and it robs you of the ability to make some of those choices clearly.
SID: I’m reminded of the scripture, a little leaven. “A little leaven will leaven the whole loaf.” A little bit of sin, you get away with it. You think no one knows. It’s your little secret. So what would you say to a man that’s watching us right now and they’re saying, “Well that’s me, I do it, but I can’t tell my wife these secrets, because if I do, she might leave.”
DOUG: Well what I would say to you sir is, I love you, I’ve been there, reading my Bible and having sexual sin. I know your pain. You don’t believe you’re lovable. Go find a man and get accountable. Tell somebody. Get out of your secret world. You deserve a clean heart, a clean life. But you will not get by just talking to Jesus. You’re going to have to talk to another man and get free. That’s what I would tell him. And he can get free. He really can.
SID: Now you found this out when you were struggling with your sin.
DOUG: I had a supernatural thing happen.
SID: I mean, going to Bible school and struggling with pornography. But the statistics say that so many ministers are struggling with pornography.
DOUG: Yeah, because good ministers are men and they’re chained by the world sexually. But here’s what happened to me. I had a supernatural encounter with the Lord. I was in seminary and the Lord said, “I want you to tell a man every time you sin sexually.” I’m like, Jesus, are you crazy? But what was my deal? A hundred percent of what you tell me to do. I said, okay. So I talked to my roommate and I said, because he knew I heard from the Lord. I said, “God told me if I act out sexually with myself or pornography I need to tell you.” He was like, whatever, okay. And then the first time I told him I felt really bad. The second time I told him I felt so bad because now I was, the humility of that was starting to heal me and I started to get free, Sid. I mean, I take a polygraph to verify I haven’t done anything sexually with myself, pornography or others in over 25 years.
SID: So if God could say, go free, I mean, coming from an illicit affair, he didn’t go into detail, shuffled around with foster parents, at a young age being given a book that’s pornographic, suicidal. If God could set Doug free, God will set you free. Give me one more tip besides accountability that people can hang on to.
DOUG: Well I think, first of all, you want to be accountable. But that’s an ongoing process. That’s why I’m encouraging churches to get involved in helping guys talk to each other. Let this be an open conversation. Instead of the rules of engagement being don’t ask, don’t tell, I say, switch the rules. Ask and tell, and we can be free.
SID: You know, wouldn’t it be wonderful for you to be free? I mean, yes, God forgives you, but once you, you know, your wife, your husband, because it works both ways, you know, they may not know what you’re doing, but they feel it. They sense it. Let’s get that wall down. Let’s get free.
SID: Let’s accomplish our destiny.
SID: We’ll be right back.
SID: Hello. Thank you. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest is a daughter of one of the generals of the faith. And I guess the devil felt if he could take her out he could kind of take away some of wonderful things her father Norvel Hayes did. Thirteen times, listen to me, 13 times, she had life-threatening disease from kidney failure to heart disease to cancer. And this young woman is moving higher than her father moved because this young woman represents and will teach you the most stubborn faith I’ve ever encountered. You know Zona, those people that don’t know you, think, oh, what a glamorous life. Your buddies were your father’s friends, Kenneth Hagin, Lester Sumrall, Joel Osteen’s father. It just, I mean, it must have been wonderful for you. But it attracted you at a young age. You haven’t even, you didn’t see your mother since 10 years of age because your folks got a divorce. It must have been very crushing when they got the divorce just as a 10 year old.
ZONA: It was a crushing. With my dad being a businessman and I had, my dad had prayed and told the Lord, said, “I don’t believe that her mother is going to raise her to serve you. And Lord, I want you to deal with her. I would love to raise her and to teach her to serve God.” And so one night I came in after visiting my dad in the hotel and I told my mother, I said, “It’s not that I don’t love you, but my dad needs me.” And she said, “What do you mean?” I said, “I want to live with my dad because I want him to take me to Cleveland, Tennessee and raise me so I can play with my cousin.” And so the next day she had my clothes ready and we left.
SID: Now as a teenager, she had something awful happen to her. She had 42 growths all over her body. And she would go to the doctor, the doctor would cut it off and then they’d grow right back. So her father being a pragmatic businessman, Norvel Hayes, he said, “I’m not taking you to the doctor any more.” That made you even angrier. Then Kenneth Hagin gave him a thought. What did Kenneth Hagin tell him?
ZONA: Well Kenneth Hagin told him, he said, “I hear that Zona has got back problems.” And my dad looked at me and my dad said, “She wants me to take her and get those growths cut off and they all come back and bring their cousins with them.” And so there was 42 growths on my body and Kenneth Hagin said, “Oh Norvel, I can curse those growths just like Jesus did the fig tree and they’ll die and disappear.”
SID: But he then went to a meeting. He didn’t curse the growths and your father is getting desperate. He’s praying for all he’s worth and he gets taken to Heaven. What happened in Heaven?
ZONA: God spoke to him in an audible voice and He said, “How long are you going to put up with those growths on your daughter’s body?” My dad said, “What do you mean? They’re not on my body. They’re on her body.” He said, “You’re the head of your house. What goes on in your house if it’s not victory is your fault.” And so He said, “You curse those growths in my name just like I did the fig tree and they’ll die and disappear if you will believe and not doubt, son.” So my dad came back in his body, came in the living room. I was sitting with my boyfriend on the couch and he put his hands on my knees, and he cursed those growths at the root in Jesus’ name, and commanded them to disappear. He asked my boyfriend, he said, “Do you believe and not doubt, son?” And he went, “Yeah, whatever you say, Mr. Hayes, whatever you say.”
SID: I don’t blame him.
ZONA: What are you going to say? And so anyway, my dad liked to drive me nuts for about six months.
SID: What was he doing for six months? How was he praying for you and how often?
ZONA: He wasn’t praying for me at all. He was confessing a hundred times a day and they weren’t going anywhere. And he was driving me out of my mind. So I met him in the hall one day and I said, “Look, Dad, you’re about to drive me nuts.” I said, “Look at these growths. They have not disappeared.” He said, “I don’t see nothing. I don’t see nothing.” He danced around like my dad could. He snapped his fingers, made a twirl and he said, “They don’t have no choice. They have to die and disappear. Thank you Lord for removing the growths off my daughter’s body.”
SID: And at the end of 90 days, what happens?
ZONA: I was a sophomore in high school. And I came in and I was changing out my dresses. Sister Hagin had taught me how to sort my clothes out, as I didn’t have a mother and she did. And so I was putting my spring, winter, summer and fall clothes together. And so I’d reach up and get a dress, and I’d see those growths, and I’d put the dress on the bed, and I’d reach up and I’d put the dress on the bed. About the sixth time of me reaching up, they were gone. That scared me.
ZONA: All of them were gone.
SID: What affect did that have on you when they were all gone?
ZONA: Well I like about passed out. I looked everywhere for them. And I ran out of the room and my dad met me, and I said, “Dad! Dad! Look! Look! Look! The growths are gone! They’re gone! They’re gone!” I said, “Dad, I don’t even let anybody know I’m a Christian in school because I want to be popular.” I said, “But you work for God. I don’t do nothing and you mean He loves me this much to remove 42 growths and I don’t even work for Him?” And the Spirit of God came on us and I’m telling you it was a glorious time.
SID: Now you would think someone like that would serve God with every fiber of their being the rest of their life. But Zona gets married at 17. Her husband goes off to war, sends her, not a Dear John letter.
ZONA: Yeah, it was a Dear John letter.
SID: A Dear Jane letter. He wants a divorce and she goes berserk. Don’t go away. We’ll pick up right here.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I wouldn’t want it any other way. A few years ago, a top man of God had a revelation from God that there were thousands and thousands of demons, evil spirits that were released on Planet Earth that had never been here before, to cause the institution of marriage to be destroyed, to cause sexual immorality. Well we know what’s happened over the last few years. What you have in your home on the Internet, on television, on the Smart Phones, it seems as though pornography is at epidemic. It seems as though the institution of marriage is under the worst assault. It seems as though divorce is cheap. But my guest has been given a supernatural proactive way to maintain the purity, the sexual purity of your family, of your house. And if any have fallen to the addiction of things like pornography, they can be free because he has a supernatural way of setting you free. You know, I am absolutely blown away by the statistics that Doug Weiss has told me. Dr. Weiss, tell me those statistics again about pornography and people addicted to it.
DOUG: I mean, billions of dollars are being spent regularly on pornography on a monthly basis. America is number one at producing pornography. The average age of looking at pornography has dropped to under 11 to nine. I mean, we are in a battle, the enemy has declared, you talked about a spiritual battle being released on Earth. Pornography is that battle and if we don’t wake up we can eaten by it. And it’s not just the people out there in the culture, the TV and all that, it’s also, like you said, the cell phones in Christian homes. I mean, Sid, I talk to Christian schools. I say, “How many of you kids have a porn blocker at home?” Only about five or 10 percent. That means 80, 90 percent of Christian homes are having porn poured into their cell phones and their computers. That’s crazy.
SID: It’s epidemic. Here’s what I found. God has a plan for your life and the devil wants to abort it. Doug, God had a wonderful plan for your life. You were supposed to be knocked down dead for a 10-count. Tell me briefly your story.
DOUG: My story, I was conceived in adultery. My mom got divorced, married an alcoholic. They got divorced. I was put in foster homes. I was sexually abused. I was abandoned. And accepted Christ when I was probably about 12 years old at the Salvation Army. But I grew up in a world of alcoholism, drug addiction, acting out immorally constantly. I came to the end of my rope, Sid, and I said, in a camp, there was no speaking, no choir, nothing. I said, “Jesus, I know you’re God, kind of and I get that. So here’s the deal, I want to die tonight. But I will give you 30 days. I will do a hundred percent of what you tell me to do to make it fair. At the end of 30 days if my life is not different, I will die then.” That was over 30 years ago. My life has been supernatural ever since and the enemy has been losing battles constantly.
SID: Okay. When you say you will die, you’re talking about you were going commit suicide.
DOUG: I was going to kill myself, absolutely. Since I was drinking and drugging, and having sex with all kinds of people all the time, I couldn’t see that for 60 years of my life.
SID: Okay. You’re a real sport. He gives God 30 days. What happened at the end of 30 days?
DOUG: Well amazingly, a pastor came into my life and I was in Bible school about a couple months after that, four years of that. Then he put me in seminary. I mean God just supernaturally came into my life.
SID: Wait. You were addicted to alcohol, drugs, pornography.
DOUG: Alcohol and drugs left instantly, supernaturally gone. Now the pornography thing and the sexual addiction stuff, that stayed in my life for several years in Bible school until I started to use some of the principles they teach in seminary. Then I started to get free from the pornography. That’s supernatural, too. I’m clean 25 years.
SID: But here’s the thing that is so amazing. If God had taken away all three of these addictions instantly, Doug wouldn’t be seated here right now. Doug would not be responsible for thousands of people getting free from addictions of all kinds because God showed him step by step, supernaturally, how he could be free and now he teaches it to others. Give me an example of someone like you that got trapped.
SID: Tell me about Joe.
DOUG: Thousands of examples of people who have seen me all over. But Joe was in a situation where he had a secret life. He cheated on his wife, got caught. She forgave him. Not the end of the story. He began to go into pornography and he was attracted to a certain type of hair color and then that kind of person shows up at his work where he’s the boss. He engages in another affair. That woman turns around and sues him for malpractice, almost destroying, not only his marriage, but his business. See, you can’t have a secret. That’s one of the rules. You can’t have a secret and be successful with this thing.
SID: But [the devil] seems to sow the secret sins. It’s sort of like a time bomb.
DOUG: It is a time bomb.
SID: And it will go off at some time. And you get away with these secret sins, but you’re really not getting away with it. You’re just being set up. But there is freedom. However, there is a couple of words that I want you to think about that is the problem in many of your lives. You do not have a healthy fear of God. I’ll be right back.
SID: So I’m talking to my orthodox Jewish father. I’m telling him why the Bible is really from God. And then I’m saying to him, “Did you know, Dad, the Torah says clearly that the animal sacrifices will not stop until the Messiah comes.” Yeah, in Daniel 9:26, the Messiah, where it says, “the Anointed One,” that’s what “moshiach” means, “shall be cut off,” that’s die, “but not for himself,” very important, “and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.” In 70 A.D. the prince, Titus, and his Roman legions did exactly what Daniel prophesied. And this would inaugurate what Jeremiah 31, Verse 31 through 34 says, “The New Covenant.” This New Covenant is an amazing covenant in which God says, “I’m going to put the Torah inside of you and you will know God, not know about God, KNOW God. It’s the most wonderful thing. Jeremiah says, “Under this [Hebrew], this New Covenant, because the Temple is destroyed you either have to say your sins are not atoned for, because without the shedding of blood there’s no forgiveness of sin, or you have to say Messiah has come. Those are your only two options. And the Messiah not only will allow you to know God, but he says, “I will not just cover your sins under this new covenant. My God,” This is what it says in Jeremiah, “will remember your sins no more.” Pretty cool. I like that. I might remember them, but God says, they don’t exist in my realm. That’s why I can live inside of you and I can come to know you. Well how can you know who the Messiah is? Big question. Ancient rabbis had a good thought. Modern rabbis, I don’t know too much about. The ancient rabbis, they saw predictions that when the Messiah comes there will be peace on Earth. They called the Messiah Ben David. Then they saw other predictions that said when the Messiah comes, he’ll be like Joseph. They called the Ben Joseph. Joseph was betrayed by his own Jewish brothers. Joseph was sold for a few pieces of silver. Joseph was put in a pit and left for dead. Everyone thought he was dead. His father thought he was dead. But he really rose to power to be the savior of the Jewish people. So they said two Messiahs. They were almost right. How about one Messiah, two appearances. How can we have peace on Earth, because that’s what the Messiah is supposed to bring, if there’s a Messiah for the Jews, a Messiah for the Muslims, a Messiah for the Christians? We’re not going to make it with three Messiahs. How about one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for the whole world. And how about one Messiah, the Jew, Jesus, for the whole world. I want applause on that, too. Come on, give me a break. Moses said, since we Jewish people wouldn’t follow him, God would raise up another leader who would be greater than him. Why greater? Because the Torah says, we must follow this one, because God’s word will be inside his human body. That’s what it says in Deuteronomy, Chapter 18, Verse 17 and 18. He says, “And the Lord said to me, ‘What they have spoken is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you,’” like Moses, “‘from among their brethren and I will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak to them all I command, and it shall be that whoever will not hear my words, which he speaks in my name, I will require it of him.’” There are over 300 specific predictions of Messiah. Let me just tell you a couple. Every one, every one, every one has come true. Every one. You know, I don’t think it’s possible to not believe Jesus is the Jewish Messiah if you think for yourself and have all the facts. It’s not possible to not realize that he is the Messiah. Not possible. Micah said he’d be born in Bethlehem of Judea. Five Bethlehems at the time Jesus was born. He just had happened to be born in Bethlehem of Judea. Isaiah said there would be a miracle sign on the world, 7:14: “A virgin shall conceive.” It was a young woman. That wouldn’t be a miracle. That’s normal. “And this child would be called Emmanuel, God is with us.” Now this Messiah would be from the ancestry of King David and the gentiles would follow him. Isaiah said, “In that day there shall be a root of Jesse,” that’s David’s father, “who shall stand as a banner to the people and the gentiles will see him.” Well what Messiah did the gentiles follow? Jesus. It’s pretty clear. Zachariah 11:13 says, “He’d be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver.” You know how many pieces of silver he was betrayed for? Thirty pieces of silver. Listen to this, the silver, Zachariah said, would be thrown into the House of the Lord, the Temple and it would be for potters. It would be, let me read this exact. He says, “And the Lord said to me, ‘Throw it to the potter.’” Guess where he was buried? Potter’s Field. He would die by crucifixion before they even knew about crucifixion. This is Psalm 22: “My life is poured out like water. All my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax, melting within me. My strength is dried up like a sun baked plague. My tongue sticks to the room of my mouth.” It says in Psalm 22, “They would divide his garments by gambling.” That’s exactly what happened. He would come before the destruction of the second temple. In Isaiah 53, “Who’s going to believe the report of the prophets? All we like sheep have gone astray. We’ve all turned everyone to his own way and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth.” You read that sometime. Dad, it’s so important. I was talking to my dad. It’s so important you believe in Messiah. Why? Because Daniel, the 12th Chapter says, “Those that are buried in the dust, some shall rise to everlasting life and some to everlasting condemnation.” Everlasting is a pretty long time, you know. So choose. This is what I want you to do. I want you to ask God if Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and say this prayer with me out loud. Do this right now, out loud. Dear God.
Audience: Dear God.
SID: I’m a sinner.
Audience: I’m a sinner.
SID: Against you.
Audience: Against you.
SID: And you alone by sin.
Audience: And you alone by sin.
SID: And I’m so sorry.
Audience: And I’m sorry.
SID: I believe.
Audience: I believe.
SID: The blood of Jesus.
Audience: The blood of Jesus.
SID: Washes away my sins.
Audience: Washes away my sins.
SID: And Jesus is my Lord.
Audience: And Jesus is my Lord.
SID: You did it!
SID: Hello. I’m here with Dr. Gary Whetstone. God has shown Gary some false gospels. Tell me one.
GARY: One of the most significant false gospels is in this nation and around the world, is the gospel of money. So that one of the bishops I know very well, he has a money in the mouth ministry list that when their ministry needs money there are ministers they know they can bring to the pulpit that they are worth so much money, by every hour they’re on air, they’re on platform.
SID: Has he actually figured this out?
GARY: And he gives it to all the leaders that he has. So they pass around these ministries to get the finances they need to accomplish the objectives they have.
SID: How could this be God?
GARY: It’s not God. There is no God in it. It is a false spirit that has come to grip the Body of Christ. It works in marketing. It works in television. It works in pulpits around the world. As a matter of fact, many of the gifts and ministries that come into churches and ministry groups is only for the money they can raise. It’s not through the contribution of revelation of Christ they bring. So there’s no value of eternal life that ever is manifest. It’s only about the carrot to get the turn, get the heart, get the motive, get the action, get the money and move on because now we have another person to raise money for.
SID: All right. Question. The supernatural principles that God showed you, do they work for every true Bible believer?
GARY: Sid, the mind of man is designed by God to respond to His voice. The mind of man listens to four sources of wisdom: the logic; listens to the flesh—lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life—listens to the voice of the enemy, demonic, the word “demon”, damonia, the knowing; and it listens to the human spirit from God’s spirit. So the mind of man only has four voices that it listens to. If we shut down the two voices, the flesh, which you’re dead in Christ to that voice, the flesh, the enemy, which you have authority over that kingdom of darkness, we only have two others to deal with: rationale and the voice from our spirit, which is the voice of God. We have, every one of us, access to that living voice of God in us every day. He will direct us financially, educationally, socially, relationally, physically. He’ll give us direction and involvement. We’ll walk in areas of life. We’ll have knowledge about people because God has given us, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit, which is from God that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
SID: Okay. You talk about many men of God, or women, who hear God’s voice and they initiate what God has called them to do, but then they finish His sentence.
GARY: That’s exactly right.
SID: Explain what you mean.
GARY: What happens is the spirit of God comes. You watch a prayer meeting. The spirit of God moves in the prayer meeting. People begin to hear the voice of God. Then somebody wants to get up and say what they believe to do next. Say what to do next. And my whole thing is once God is moving, don’t stop Him. The worst thing we do in Christendom is we begin with the anointing of the presence of God and then we have a format in which we perceive God is going to move in. God has given me insight of a whole new dynamic of the Body of Christ. It is here on Earth that it must come forward in the experience.
SID: You did something drastic in your church. God gave you so many supernatural tools. But tell me about the supernatural information fast.
GARY: We went on a 40-day, shut down all information that takes you from your personal presence of God. Don’t allow entertainment. Don’t allow music. Don’t allow conversations. Don’t allow involvements with people that take you from the focus on the personal presence of God in your life.
SID: Now when you say don’t allow music, you can Christian music.
GARY: You can have, well—
SID: I’m trying, folks. I’m not trying to make it easier on me.
GARY: I mean, the real truth of it, how much Christian music reveals the living indwelling Christ? One of the keys that has stirred my spirit is the fact of detachment. Anything that says God is there and I’m here is not God. On the Body of Christ, He’s the head. God must be identified in living through my life, any song, any communication, any interaction and involvement. So if I’m going to focus on this indwelling person of Christ, the Living God—
SID: That’s very difficult what you’re asking us to do. But you asked your whole congregation to do this.
GARY: There is no other life. We’re the Body of Christ. Why play church when we can be the church? I mean, why play? Why put a forum out there? Why put a system together that is so broken everyone in church knows it doesn’t work. They go from church to church and they’re looking for some God somewhere and He’s in them. And the key is that life of God in them is designed to manifest through them. The Body of Christ is not designed to have a pew pulpit environment. It’s designed to have a living expression of the Living God that’s in every believer that comes forth and demonstrates the power and the life of Jesus Christ within.
SID: You know what this is saying to me? When you go on this 40-day information fast, you get rid of all clutter except God.
GARY: All clutter.
SID: I like that.
GARY: That’s right.
SID: What happened to these people?
GARY: We had one fellow who had been dating this girl for like 12 years. He could not make a commitment. He had a commitment issue and everybody talked with him. Everybody prayed with him. He couldn’t get over the threshold. He went on that 40-day information fast and he got it. He said, “I see exactly what happened.” Because our spirit knows exactly what we deal with. You know, sometimes we’re waiting for someone else to get inside us what our problems are and you know every one of us knows. Every person knows exactly what’s going on, what’s going wrong and what’s taking them down. And the nature of Christ in them, as we did this fast, we saw people end their jobs, they quit one job, stepped into businesses. We watched this one couple, they got married out of that information fast. We watched other people. One couple left the church, went off into ministry in the mission field.
SID: It’s nice when you hear God’s voice. All right. You did something, you speak in your seminar something very drastic and I want to do this, and I want you to do this right now. I want you to lead us in a prayer that everything that isn’t of God in our life will be burned up and we will accomplish God’s destiny. Would you do that right now?
GARY: Yes. You know, if you’re ready for a bonfire, this is your day. You know, God has designed you to end the craziness.
GARY: Yes. Number one, God does not answer worry, He does not answer fear and He is not concerned. Anything and everything you’re concerned about, get it off you. It’s not God. Number two, God is not directing by anyone else. He leads you by His spirit. Anyone you’re following, anything you’re following, anywhere you think you’re going because of someone else’s leadership, release it because if God’s spirit is not present and moving, don’t be in it. Number three, everything that seems to withstand and obstruct that nature of God comes down. So we’re going to take you into that prayer. First, cast your care upon the Lord right now. Just do it with me. Get every care, every burden, every weight, release it completely. Sever its hold, silence its voice as you commit it into the hands of the Living God. Father, we do just that. We commit into your ever-loving hands our life we know. Our life is not made of ours. Life is yours. You had a crucified with Christ. It’s your life in us. So we loose ourselves of the weights, the burdens, the cares and we refuse to remind you of any worry in the name of Jesus. Now in that same place after casting your cares, take an survey, a view of your relationships. And if there’s anyone with any harbored injury or insult, or influence in your life, in the name Jesus and in the person of Jesus, forgive them. Release them right now in the name of Jesus. Father, we forgive and we release them in the mighty name of Jesus. Through that blood, they are forgiven. And now just thank God that every stronghold, imagination and high thing comes down, and what’s left is the clear hearing the voice of God. You hear Him. He’s in you. He’s speaking to you in the mighty name of Jesus. And we silence the torment, the confusion and the disarray of thought, and declare it to end in their life in the mighty name of Jesus. We bless you Father for that peace and that wisdom that moves their heart and mind, through Christ Jesus. We bless you, Lord. Amen.
SID: So I was explaining to you. Deuteronomy said, if we follow God we’d be the most blessed people on the face of this earth. If we did not follow Him, whatever country we would go to, we’d lose our homeland, our temple, our only means of being right with God. And wherever we’d go it would eventually would turn on us. This all happened to the decimal point. But God said, even though this would be going on, I’m going to do a sign that will confound the world. As long as there is a sun and moon, and stars there will be a, someone’s neck has just been healed and back has just been healed. As long as there is a sun and moon, and stars, there will be a physical Jew on the face of this earth. Now you would think that after 2000 years of this meshugas the world trying to kill us because we’re Jews, that every Jew in the world would have either assimilated or died, and there would be no physical Jew. Logical, not our country, not our temple. There’s no logical explanation that a Jew still survives, but God. Unless there is a sun and a moon, and stars that disappear, then you won’t see a Jew. You see how easy it would have been to disprove the Bible? On the other hand, that’s enough for you to believe the Bible. Then God says to his prophet Isaiah, “Shall a nation be formed in one day at once.” And then God says in Isaiah, Chapter 11, Verse 12, He’s going to present a miracle banner to the world to grab your attention. This is what he says: “God, He, will set up a banner for the nations and will assemble the outcasts of Israel and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” We have seen that. And May 14, 1948, against impossible odds, Israel became a nation in one day, and the Jews from the four corners of the earth were still kept, not assimilated, were still Jews and re-gathered to their homeland, Israel. That’s our God. But then when we got back we bumped into four major wars. We didn’t have money. We didn’t have ammunitions. We barely had clothing. We came from Europe with the clothing on our back and we were out-numbered. Twenty Arab nations declared war against us with 140 million Arabs with petro dollars armed to their teeth, no explanation for the survival of Israel. But God is real. God is real. God is real. Then when we get back, a waste desert. Mark Twain, he went there and he said, “I don’t know why they fight over this place. It’s such a god-forsaken barren wilderness. But when we got back God’s word came into play again. Isaiah, Chapter 35, Verse 1, “The wilderness in the wasteland shall be glad for them and the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose.” When we returned, did you know Israel today can grow vegetation in the desert? How did Isaiah know about the atomic desolation of seawater and the agricultural miracle that Israel has accomplished in this land? Speaking about the desert blossoming as a rose, did you know Israel is the third largest exporter of cut flowers in the world? Look how precise God’s word is. Then he said, the way cities that were just totally flattened, they’re going to be restored. The desert will come back and bloom like a rose. The way cities are going to come back. And have you seen Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? These are modern cities. But God says, “I will bring that back, the captives of my people Israel and they shall build the way cities and inhabit them.” And then He says, even the Jews from the north. You know what’s directly north of Israel? Moscow, Russia. The Jews from the north will return to Israel. One of the greatest exoduses we had in modern times were the Russian Jews coming back to Israel. And by the way, if you think these were written after the fact, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls no one has tampered with. These are predictions by God and they have come true to the decimal point. And just as God had a plan for the Jewish people, He has a plan for the Messiah, because He wants to restore us to the Adamic nature. Do you know what life Adam had? He wasn’t afraid of anything. He wasn’t ashamed of anything. God wants to return us to that. Now we Jewish people had a free pass for many years. You know what it was? A temple, an animal sacrifice. An animal would die in our place and our sins would be covered. But then we lost the Temple. And so we had to develop a new religion called Rabbinic Judaism because we didn’t have the Temple under biblical Judaism. But God had a plan. Leviticus 17:11: “For the life or the soul, the very essence of a human is in the blood and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls. For it is the blood that makes atonement for your soul.” You know, in Passover, we Jewish people would put blood on the doorpost because the blood atones for your sins and the Angel of Death, that’s where Passover came from, the Angel of Death would pass over our homes if he saw the blood on the doorpost. If you lived in Egypt, and Moshe Rabbeinu says, “I want you to kill a lamb and I want you to put the blood on your doorpost,” and you say, Eeww, I don’t like blood, I don’t want to do that, you would have died, the first-born would have died. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin and the blood is a shadow of THE blood. Be right back.
SID: So how would you like to be in a situation where God Himself says to you, you’re a pastor of a successful church, your candle is going to go out because you’re doing it your way. You’re not doing it my way. You have a choice. You can continue doing it your way and say, but I’m accomplishing so much, and then guess what? Not only will your candle go out, everything you’ve accomplished that you think is so wonderful will be burned with fire and not count for eternity. So what changes occurred as a result of this vision?
GARY: Soon after that vision we had, God had spoken to me to buy a building in West Philadelphia, and He gave me the exact number to pay, $365,000 for it. I sent two of the ministers that we have in our church up to find the building. I knew exactly where it was. I watched it in my spirit. They got there. I said, “You’re there. Just turn around. Where’s the building?” And they said, “There’s a building there but it’s sold.” I said, “That’s it. Go find the owner. That’s what we’re getting.” Anyway, long story, it was sold for over millions of dollars. The whole thing fell through. Finally the owner calls back to our office and he says, “I’ll sell it, but I’m not going to sell it for that price.” I said, “But that’s the price I heard from God, so that’s what you’re paying.” Long story short, we buy the property, $365,000. It’s a factory. We bought a factory in Philadelphia. Look at the picture. Look at how large that it is, how large it is. So the next thing I know, what I was doing was planting churches because, of course—
SID: That’s your thing.
GARY: That’s what you do.
GARY: So we have Bible colleges. We opened up schools. We have schools around the world. We produced pastors and leaders. We put a church in there. So I’m hearing now, what is God saying now? So I began to say, God—
SID: And by the way, what he just described was before he had this vision. Now he’s got this church. He’s in Philly. Supernaturally he got it. But where was your mistake?
GARY: My mistake was putting a church in there, because God never called—
SID: But that’s what you do. You put churches in there.
GARY: That’s the problem. See, people do things because they believe that’s what they do rather than hear from God to do what He’s saying to do. And as a result, we do things out of a systemic like sense of obligation or responsibility, or activity in what other people. Because we have such a large broad amount of people coming in to our location in Delaware, it would only make sense to put a church in Baltimore, one in Philadelphia, and reach out to the people that are coming.
SID: Okay. But now you don’t want your candle to go out. You don’t want it to burn with fire. What do you do? You’re already stuck. You got a church going.
GARY: I get the pastor that’s at the church in his position. I said, “Look, is God talking today about this church?” I said, “Forget what I had you doing. Forget what you’ve been doing for a couple of years. Today is God speaking to you about this church.” He said, no. I said, “We’re closing it. We’re selling the building.”
SID: How could you do that? You got people going there. How could you stop it?
GARY: You know, Sid, if every pastor only did exactly what God said we’d have far less out there and much more effectiveness in the Kingdom of God. Far more out there. Effectiveness.
SID: Okay. So what happened to this building?
GARY: We got a $1,850,000 for it. We walked out with a $1,500,000 in profit, paid off all the debts. We have no debt whatsoever in the ministry, all the burden lifted off everything, and now we do everything without any debt or encumbrance whatsoever.
SID: Well you know what’s even more exciting? He supernaturally teaches people how to hear God’s voice, did it in his own church. The people in his congregation hear God about their marriage. What happened with marriages?
GARY: Talking of marriages, here’s a guy coming up with a fiancé. This is a story about hearing God’s voice. He says, “I want to marry her.” So I said, “Wait a minute.” And I’m listening and God says, “She’s not to be his wife. He has a wife.” I said, “Well where is your wife?” He goes, “I don’t have a wife.” I said, “No, where is your wife?” He says, “Twenty years ago I got a divorce.” I said, “Where is she?” He said, “I don’t know. I haven’t talked to her.” I said, “Before I even talk to you about getting married to this woman,” I said, “I want you to go back and ask God who your wife is and find out what is God going to do with your life.” He comes back. He says, “You know, Gary, I can’t believe this.” He said, “I couldn’t even remember her name when you asked me where she was. It was like she was gone, gone.” He said, “But all of a sudden I got this love for her.” And I’m thinking, okay, what happened to the girl you brought up here? How’s this going to go? What did she hear from God?
SID: I’m glad you’re the pastor and not me.
GARY: He finally got the one he was looking for, you know what I’m saying. Here’s this guy hearing God. And what does he do? He finds her in California, flies out and says, “I had the most strange experience. I went to this pastor. He said, what is God saying.” And he meets her. They get remarried again together. They are now together walking in God, fulfilling. What happens in people’s minds, Sid, is they don’t say, stop. God is present in me. There is the Living God I live with. He speaks to me. We are the Body of Christ. We hear Him. We are so wired to hear God, it is easier for us to obey God than disobey Him.
SID: Now out of curiosity, now that you’ve made a number of changes, the changes were easy. What’s not of you, God? Out. So he’s made these changes. How many people would you say since you’ve made these changes have been saved? How many miracles? How many marriages restored? What would you say?
GARY: We see it constantly. We just had 750 people saved last month at our altars.
SID: You know, it’s much better to do it God’s way than your way.
GARY: Yeah, oh yeah.
SID: Okay. I want to find out what you taught your congregation so they can all hear God’s voice. Do you want to hear that? I do. Be right back.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to partake of this new paradigm that God is about ready to do because there’s going to be such an outpouring of God’s Spirit on planet earth that the old wineskins are brittle, they won’t contain all of the glory. That’s why I am so excited about this previously unpublished manuscript, it’s still unpublished. I persuaded Pastor Robert Heidler to print this up and it’s called “The Messianic Church.” It has the goods, the history of how we got from something that was 100% Jewish, to something that traditional Jewish people feel is the opposite of Judaism and everything. You know what, when you look at it it appears to be the opposite. Pastor Robert Heidler I mean it’s almost outrageous it’s one of the greatest con jobs in history to take the church out of its natural setting, Jewish, and insert it into a pagan Gentile setting, pagan. I have to believe the reason this was done was to have a clear wall of separation between Jews and Christians for diabolical purposes.
Robert: Exactly. You know Paul says “In Christ that wall of separation is broken down” but when you look at the church today that wall has been resurrected and that was not God’s purpose.
Sid: Listen the master politician, Constantine, was able to salvage his empire by melding paganism and Christianity, and cutting out everything Biblically Jewish, even to the form of what we call the church. You were talking about that yesterday and there was a quote, we had to end a little too early from The Learning Channel. Would you repeat that?
Robert: Yes, in The Learning Channel they had a show called “Rome: The Power and The Glory.” They went through the rise of the Roman Empire in the fall, and the last show in the series was on the fall of the empire. They said this, “It’s interesting that imperial Rome is probably best preserved in the church it once persecuted.” He said “Look at a church and see what you see is the architecture of the imperial throne room. Sit in a church and what you hear is imperial court ceremony. Solemnity, the choir, and the hymns are derived from the ceremonies of the Roman Imperial Court.” I mean that’s a secular historian just looking factually saying “This is what you see in the church did not come from Jesus and the apostles; the forms of worship that are common in the church really came from a pagan Roman source.” It’s interesting one quote I have in the book, in the manuscript, from Constantine less than one year after his conversion, supposedly to Christianity. He made the following decree, he said “I am going to make plain to them what kind of worship is to be offered to God. What higher duty do I have as emperor than to cause all to offer to all Mighty God true worship, true religion, and due worship.” So here is a pagan emperor he looks at the worship of the church and it’s offensive to him. It’s very Jewish, and he says “We’ve got to teach the church a better way to worship God.”
Sid: Where did the separation come between the laity, the laymen, and the clergy, where did this come from?
Robert: Well I think it came from just what we’re talking about here with the church. You know moving the church from the house church into the basilica church’s that Constantine made, it made a whole new pattern for church life. In the house church everyone participated, everyone was encouraged to know the word, and to minister. When you move it into a basilica you have a throne at the front for the bishop, and you have the clergy that do all the rituals and the ministries. Out in the congregation people just come and sit and observe. It’s interesting we talked about Constantine bringing Mithraism into Christianity. In the early church every believer was supposed to know how to minister, they were supposed to know the word, they were gifted by God to do the things of God. Mithraism was mystery religion, and only the initiated only the priests were allowed to know the sacred truths, and everyone else was just to come and observe the truths in ignorance. So Constantine really made that shift where by the Middle Ages Bibles were written a language people didn’t know and were chained to the pulpit where they couldn’t be read.
Robert: Because they did not want the common people to know the word of God, to know how to minister. It became… it was really the pattern that Constantine had put in where you have a clergy that knew the hidden sacred truths; people would come and observe and take part in the rituals hoping to receive some spiritual benefit from it.
Sid: You know I’m looking through your manuscript right now, and I really want to read your description of a visit to an early church which was a house church, let me read this. “As we walk through the door you look across the entrance into the large open courtyard of the home. There appears to be some kind of a party going on. Some of the people are playing flutes, lyres, and tambourines while others are singing, dancing and clapping their hands. You immediately look around to make sure you’ve come into the right house as you listen to the words. However, you realize that this is the right place for the words of the songs are words of praise to Jesus. These people are overflowing with joy because they’ve come to know the living God. What you are witnessing is the way the early church praised God. This type of worship is foreign to much of the church today, but from the Biblical and historical records this is what the worship in the early church was like. It was a free and joyful celebration with a great deal of singing and dancing. Most church services would begin with the people getting in a ring, or several concentric rings, and dancing Jewish style ring dances, like the Hora.” It says “There’s a great deal of singing and dancing and rejoicing in the Lord. As the songs slow down a little many people get down on their knees before the Lord, most are lifting up hands to Him, a tremendous sense of the Lord’s presence fills the courtyard. During the church’s praise and worship there are spontaneous shouts of praise, some shout ‘Amen!’ to voice their agreement with what others have said. As we enter into the worship we’re overwhelmed by the love and acceptance of the people. After much singing and dancing food is brought out people find their seats to prepare for the meal. We’re surprised to see people eating a meal in the middle of a church service, but this is described by Paul in 1st Corinthians, as well as by Jude and Peter. This shared weekly meal is called the ‘Love Feasts’ or ‘Agape.’ To begin the meal one of the leaders stands with a cup blesses the Lord and passes it around so each one can drink from it. He then picks up a loaf of bread and offer thanks. It’s also passed from person to person, this is the Lord’s supper in its original context. The meal is joyful centered on devotion to the Lord. As they eat the believers talk about the things of God, share testimonies, and recite and discuss scripture, sing praises to the Lord. You’re impressed that while very few have personal copies of any Biblical books most of those present appear to have large portions of the Bible memorized. After the meal ends worship continues till at some point a change begins to take place. There’s a subtle shift in the atmosphere, the air seems to thicken, a tangible sense of the presence of God comes and rest in the place.” Now I’m going to stop right here Robert, but that’s the point where it’s like heaven touches earth.
Sid: And miracles break out… you know I’m reminded of this young generation that we have that was raised in the church is leaving the church in droves. This young generation we have basically their not even born again anymore. What if they had been raised in this kind of environment?
Robert: Yes, yes. What I see here Sid, what you just described is the wineskin that God created to the hold the new wine. So often we hold up to Him a pagan wineskin and say “Lord we want Your Spirit” but when He pours a Spirit it can’t hold in what He wants to pour out.
Sid: Mishpochah, God is about ready to bring the Biblical Jewish roots, not the rabbinical roots, not a religious spirit of “Do this or you’re not saved” but a freedom like the church has not witnessed. We will not lose this next generation which might be the last generation before the Messiah comes. You know I’m reading from your manuscript right here and it says “Everyone who studies the early church is amazed at its phenomenal growth. Some historians estimate by the end of the 3rd century half of the population of the Roman Empire had converted to Christianity. Why was this tremendous growth, and then it was just cut off at the roots.
SID: When I was a young Jewish believer in the Messiah, I was involved in starting something I had no idea, a few of us, we knew nothing. But we felt we wanted a congregation for Jewish people where we would where we used to, where we were raised with in the synagogue. And so we started one of the first modern Messianic Jewish congregations in America. And shortly, I realized, I was the leader at the time, I knew nothing. So we got a wonderful Messianic Jewish rabbi that did something unusual. He proved that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and never used the New Testament. He always spoke from the Jewish Scriptures, the Old Covenant. Now my wife was raised Southern Baptist, got to college, atheistic professors and whatever faith she had, zip, out the door. She never called herself an atheist. Just in case, she called herself an agnostic. She had a little, maybe there is a God. I’m not going to call myself an atheist. Well when we got married, I insisted she convert to orthodox Judaism. So you might say she was a Southern Baptist, agnostic, orthodox Jew. Right? But kicking and screaming, she would go to our Messianic Jewish congregation and she would hear something that was taken for granted among gentile Christians. You believe because your parents believe. You believe because you’ve been told that since you were so little. Then what happens when you get to college and into the world, you have all this doubt that comes and surfaces, and you’re surrounded with doubt and unbelief. And so she heard, for the first time, why the Bible is from God. It’s not a given. You have to understand why the Bible is from God, because if it’s not from God then there is no foundation in Judaism or Christianity, or anything else. Then that same Bible proves, there are predictions in it called prophecies, that Jesus is the Messiah. And she came to a point where one day she said, “I have no choice. I have to believe.” Now when I got saved, I was very prominent. There was an article in a major Washington, D.C. newspaper. And I have to tell you, coming from an orthodox Jewish background, my father was horrified that, number one, I was a believer in the Messiah, Jesus, and number two, I was outspoken about it. But one day, he said, “Okay, I want you to tell me why Jesus is the Messiah.” Oh, I’ve been waiting for this day for so long. And I have to tell you, I was praying that he would come to know the Messiah. My mother who loved me would try to protect me, you know, good Jewish mother. And she said, “Your dad will never become a believer in that Jesus.” She just didn’t want me to be left down, you know. And I said to her, I remember saying to her, “You’re wrong. He will.” You know why? I have been saying it for so long that I began to believe it. There was no evidence to my natural lies. If you knew my dad, none whatsoever. Orthodox Jew born in Poland, saw everything Hitler did, you know, the whole nine yards. No way he was going to believe. But something in me said, I know my father is going to be a believer in the Messiah. So I got a Tanakh, that’s a Jewish copy of the Jewish Scriptures. And the Tanakh is the same as a Christian Old Testament, except the books are in a slightly different order and the verses could be one ahead or one behind. Otherwise, it’s virtually the same as a Christian Old Testament. And I said, “Dad, did you know there are predictions about our Jewish people and that there are thousands of them, past, present and future, of the Jewish people, and they all come true, I mean, to the decimal point.” He said, “No, I didn’t know that.” I said, “Let me show you a few of them.” God said in Deuteronomy 28, “We would be the most blessed people on the face of this earth if we would follow Moses and the Torah”. But if not, we would lose our temple, we did. We would lose our city, Jerusalem, we did. We’d be scattered to the four corners of the earth, we were. Whatever country we would go to we would be persecuted in. You see how precise and specific this is? But there’s more. And I’ll be right back in a moment.