SID: Eddie, so many people are watching right now and the question they have on their heart is how do I have, isn’t that what you’re thinking, how do I have a Jesus encounter?
EDDIE: Well first of all, for some, a Jesus encounter, for many of us really, a Jesus encounter is something that we don’t necessarily plan. He comes and he visits, and he does something in us. But I believe that how you continue to have them is through a seeking heart. He says, “If you draw nigh to me I will draw nigh to you.” And I believe that what ends up happening, especially for believers, is that we have this moment with God and then we don’t allow the moment to provoke a lifestyle of pursuit. And I believe that we have to silence all the voices that aren’t from the Lord, everything that is being spoken into your life through music, through media, whatever. Sometimes when you just shut everything down and silence everything and begin to meditate on him, and become fascinated with him again, the encouragement here is to do your first works over again. If you can remember that day when you had such a burning heart for God that nothing else mattered but being in his presence, you need to get back that. Because I don’t care who you are, you will never get above that.
SID: If someone can have an understanding of true worship they can have a Jesus encounter and that’s the only real fix there is in life.
EDDIE: Nothing else satisfies. Nothing else can, you know, it’s interesting when you look at the story of the prodigal in the pig pen. That he was going to silence the growl of his hunger with stuff that could never satisfy, and would ultimately destroy him. That he came to himself and said, “In my father’s house, he’s got servants that live better than this.” So he realized that the place that will ultimately satisfy is in the place of his father. And I believe that for those who are watching this, you need to know that I don’t care what you turn to, I don’t care if it seems to be good, I don’t care if it seems to be a legitimate thing that’s okay to do, it was never meant to satisfy the eternal longing of the heart. The only one who can do that is Jesus. And when you live in that place, I’m telling you, there’s nothing else like it. There’s nothing more fulfilling than to know that Jesus Christ is the ultimate satisfier of your soul. I just encourage this. Take all the restrictions and all of the boundaries off and live life with Christ. Live life with him. Yes, take some time and be intimate and get by yourself, but then don’t leave that place and then act as if, okay, now I did my hour, now it’s me. No, it’s Jesus 24/7. It is Jesus consistently that he guides you, he directs you, he’s speaking into your life. He’s letting you know, watch for that, I’m proud of you for doing that, that’s awesome. Be cautious of that. And allowing that voice, that presence of Jesus to be what you live in every day. This is to me is what Enoch did. This is what Obed-Edom did and their lives were so enriched because they lived daily in the presence of the Lord.
SID: You know, all things are possible. Eddie, if you would go to your piano, all things are possible in the presence of God. And when you experience the presence, there’s fullness of joy.
EDDIE: Amen.
SID: Now you can’t have fullness of joy and problems at the same time. There’s no room for problems.
Eddie James [music, singing]: Hear the cry of the broken people (come, Yeshua, come). In need of revelation and truth (come, Yeshua, come). You’re our High Priest and the lamb slained (come, Yeshua, come). Salvation is only found in You (come, Yeshua, come). (come) Come in glory and power (come). Your people need You this hour. (come) All that You would render Heavens and manifest Your presence (come) Bring peace to Israel. (come) From the rise that moved the veil. (come) Lord, the spirit and the pride say come.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest Eddie James says if you are fascinated with God you will have a Jesus encounter. He just got back from Heaven and there is an anointing that will cause you to be fascinated with God and have your own Jesus encounter. You know, Eddie James, every time I meet someone that has known the Lord from a very young age, you provoke me to jealousy because you didn’t have to go through all the junk. I didn’t even know who Jesus was until I was 30. But you’re singing for the Lord, you’re singing in church. But one thing I’ve observed about you, yes, I love your worship ministry because you sing to God, and there’s something very special about it, but there’s something else that intrigues me. You have such a broken heart for the hurting and the lost. Obviously it came from God, but how did you get such a broken heart for the hurting?
EDDIE: I come from a great family. The Lord has really used our family. Our family fell on some hard times and eventually my mother and father were broken apart, and there was a definite wound that happened in my heart as a result of that. And it’s interesting how you could be ministering in church and [are] still bleeding. But the Lord has done a work in my life and I believe that that sense of brokenness plays a huge role into why my heart has been tender. I’ll never forget when I began to work with Teen Challenge, which wass my first worship leading job, which was when I did Assembly of God Church with the Teen Challenge program, they began to take in these people that would come in from the streets, and I was blown away by that. I can remember like it was yesterday, I am watching this father who had two sons that had just begin to, you know, one was nine and one was like seven, and they had just shared a scripture in front of a couple thousand people, and I’m on the keyboard. And it was great. The whole church stood up and clapped as we were kind of doing that. And as I looked to my right, the father comes to these boys, and says, “I’m so proud of you. I’m so just moved by what you did.” And I saw a picture of what I had longed for, and I began to break. I just began to weep. And I could remember that like yesterday, just that moment for some reason triggered and unlocked this deep pain that I had been carrying for so long. And it was through that experience that the people—
SID: There is something that happens for a true worshiper.
EDDIE: Yes.
SID: That whatever the world has done to you, you can be free.
EDDIE: That’s exactly right.
SID: You take people off the streets that are hardened, drug addicts.
EDDIE: Yes.
SID: But something just happened to you. You actually had a portal come down from Heaven. Tell me briefly about that.
EDDIE: The Holy Spirit just met us. We were in this extended time of seeking, fasting and prayer. The Holy Spirit hits me and I am on the floor, and I’m not just one prone to fall out. But I am on the floor and my spirit begins to go up into what I can only describe as this portal that opens up over Heaven and this, what seems to be a beam of light that connects where I’m at to the heavenly place. And my spirit begins to go into that place of glory and that place of the presence of the Lord, and there I am getting books from Heaven beginning to be put into my spirit, filled with songs or filled with just new creative writings that I would be doing in the earth. And so I would go back and forth and my spirit would go into Heaven, grab these books and then come back into my spirit, and I could feel my body responding to what the Holy Spirit is doing in me at that time. It changed my life.
SID: Since this visitation to Heaven, just in your worship, miracles are breaking out. Tell me a few recent miracles.
EDDIE: Okay. This has been awesome. So we were in the Philippines and just conducting an amazing meeting. And there was a woman in a wheelchair, she comes up to be healed, and the Lord miraculously heals this woman. She is running around the stadium. I pick up the wheelchair and I’m running around with the wheelchair behind this woman who actually is magnifying the Lord. We’re also in the streets of Manilla and there’s a, we’re doing an outreach and there’s a lady there who the doctor said that her baby was dead. There’s no heartbeat and they’re getting ready to take the baby out. And we begin to pray to release healing into this woman, and the baby begins to kick as our hands were on the lady’s stomach. Crazy stuff.
SID: I have to tell you, I love the pop-up miracles in Haifa, Israel.
EDDIE: Oh Jesus. Okay, so we were there for the Feast of Tabernacles and I’m telling you, it was an amazing moment. I’m there really just leading worship. I’m standing there getting ready to do a teaching, and as I’m doing that, they just begin to pop up and say, “I just want you to know my knees got healed.” Somebody says, “I just want you to know God just healed my back and my shoulders.” And somebody else gets up and begins to declare how God is healing them of something in their ear, something in their eye. It just pops, people just popping up sharing how God, I’m sitting here like, wow. I’m just teaching and people are celebrating.
SID: You’re an observer. You get to that piano, because when he plays, “Be Healed” and sings those words, watch out, pop-up miracles.
Eddie James [music, singing]: If your heart is broken and your spirit wounded, and you see when the one is there for you, have your troubles your tears, pain and fear, and you don’t know what to do, I have a word from Heaven today. Be healed, be healed. He said rise take your bed and go on to do his will. Be healed, be healed. Let his blood make you better ’cause Jesus breaks every fetter. You don’t have to stay the same. O Lord, be healed.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
SID: Steve, you talk about the delight that God has in you praying for the sick, the delight that you get back from traveling international, praying for thousands of people, having others pray for thousands of people, and you can’t get wait to get out to pray for that one person. And you use a word that I want you to talk about: “rescue.”
STEVE: I think rescue is a great definition for salvation, actually. And I feel like where the rhythm of God, where Jesus is moving, I always see rescue and reconciliation, and restoration. He rescues lives. There’s two ways to see it. As recently as, I don’t know, two, three weeks ago, little girl, born deaf, someone prayed for her, her ears opened, and she could hear and speak. We can say, oh her ears got healed. I’d say her life got rescued. All her possibilities, all her future, everything changed.
SID: Total transformation.
STEVE: In a moment.
SID: And he’s saying that you can do this. You don’t have to be a spectator anymore.
STEVE: Amen.
SID: I mean, you are hired. Come into the play. Take the starring role because, do you remember what God said to Steve? I’ve been waiting for so long for someone to pray for this person. There are people all around you that God is just waiting for someone to release his Kingdom and that someone is you. You are qualified. Tell me, teach just for a moment from one scripture and then pray for the sick.
STEVE: In Mark 1:40-41, the leper came to Jesus and he says, “He fell on his knees and he begged him.” He says, “If you’re willing you can make me clean. And Jesus looked at him, filled with compassion, and he said, “‘I am willing.'” The problem we have is the English language doesn’t have the richness of the Greek. He said, “I am palo,” which means not only willingness, volition, but it means pleasure. He was saying you don’t have to beg me. I’m pleased to heal you. When we get a hold of this it changes the way we pray. Now let me pray for folks out there because the Lord is going to heal you right now. So I encourage you, put your hand on that part of your body where you’ve got pain or where there is sickness and just let the Lord come to you right now. In the name of Jesus Christ, I command this pain to leave. I command pain to leave your right hip. I command the pain to leave your neck. The neck spurs go right now. I tell migraines to go right now. I speak to the right ear that’s been blocked. It opens in the name of Jesus. I tell all pain in your body to go. I tell all sickness to go in the name of Jesus Christ and I release the power of Heaven, the Divine life of Jesus into your body. Thank you, Lord.
SID: And I’m hearing that in your bones there are pain, anywhere in your body, in your bones there is pain. I command that pain to go in Jesus’ name. Steve, you say that many people, after they get your teaching, they say this is what I was made for.
STEVE: Yes.
SID: You told me that that would delight God. That has to so delight you, too.
STEVE: It does. It does. And you know, Sid, that’s part of why I go all over the developing world. We’ve taken over 1300 people with us on these journeys of compassion because their lives change, not just for 12 days, but when they go home. And it’s also why I go and I do these impact weekends because people’s lives change. They begin to understand the Gospel is bigger than they ever thought it was and that Jesus is inviting us to enter right into the rhythm of it.
SID: You say there is a question that anyone can ask that changes everything. What is that question?
STEVE: This is the question I thought all over the world. It’s five simple words: “May I pray for you?” And the problem is we, oh that’s too simple. But Christian sociologists tell us that 95 percent of believers never once in their life ask that question outside the safety of their church building or their home. When we ask that question, the Word becomes flesh. The ideal becomes realm. The Kingdom of God is released. I encourage every viewer to take a deep breath, step over the nervousness, which is normal, and the dry mouth, which is normal, and when you hear somebody at the coffee shop two tables over telling their friend, I’ve had this headache for three days, instead of thinking that’s too bad, you walk over and say, “Excuse me, I couldn’t help but hear. May I pray for you?”
SID: Let me tell you how faith is spelled: R-I-S-K. But guess what? After you pray for your first 200 people, you will delight in seeing lives transformed. You will delight in rescuing people. I appoint you to be normal, normal as defined by the Bible.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
SID: So a nine-year-old Indian boy in India hears this teaching from Steve and totally moves like someone in the Book of Acts would move that was a believer. Give me just a few nuggets that this young nine-year-old grabbed hold of that caused him to be normal, normal as defined by the Bible, not normal as defined by tradition and religion.
STEVE: For one thing, he would have learned that what we expect is what we see and the more we see, the more we expect, so it is a positive spiral. And he would have also heard what I shared earlier that whatever we release is what gets released from Heaven, which is what Jesus told Peter in Matthew 16:19 in this whole thing of God wanting to release the Kingdom through us. He also would have heard about the delight of God. This is such a key for me. Let me tell you briefly. I was doing a healing conference in Seoul, Korea and a mother brought her 20-year-old son to me. He came over to me. He had rheumatoid arthritis. His knees were all swelled up. So I knelt down to pray for him, and as I started to pray for him I could feel things moving around. Nobody noticed me because of all that was going on in the room. But for me, it was as if the room became silent, and I heard the Father say to me, “You really love doing this, don’t you?” I said, “Yes, Papa, I do.” And he said to me, “Me, too.” And at that moment, I just had this a-ha, he delights in healing and he delights in me, Sid, when I’m healing. He made me to pray for the sick as he made every believer and when I’m doing it I enter into his delight. Can I tell you a story, also in India, how that was released and changed a region. I took a team, you know, we head up this thing called Impact Nations, and I took a team on a journey of compassion to northern India two years ago. I had been to India many times. We went into the hardest region in India, in the Punjab. On the first day, we did a mobile medical clinic, which we do. I believe the Kingdom touches every part of life. And we were going along just fine for a couple of hours and then a family brought their paralyzed mother. They carried her in to get medicine. While she was waiting our prayer team prayed for her and she was instantly healed. What I want you to know is out of that one healing, suddenly a town of 8000, we just turned and we prayed for person after person, after person until it was dark, got up to preach and they were on the roof, on the walls, they were everywhere. And out of that one journey of compassion in that area of the Punjab, 1000 new churches were planted.
SID: This is not an exception. Wherever you go this is happening. But that’s India. What about some place like here, the United States? Does the Word work as good here as it does in India?
STEVE: Absolutely, Sid. I’ve watched in Bristol, Connecticut, when I taught a team and we went out to a housing project, and in the first 30 minutes, a woman with a blind [eye] opened. Another woman who had been in bed for three months and her husband found us and said, “Come pray.” And she was doing jumping jacks. A man who had been off on disability because he had a frozen arm that wouldn’t work, completely healed.
SID: But the thing that’s so amazing to me, he could tell me all these things that he does, but he doesn’t even do it much himself. He lets everyone else do it that’s never done it before to prove the power of the Word. Speaking of the power of the Word, this illustrates it better than anything I’ve ever heard of. You were in the former Soviet Union and your translator was Russian, a really nice Russian atheist, doesn’t believe a thing, just a professional doing her job, and how could you tell her to pray for someone?
STEVE: The Russian government actually paid for auditoriums for me and they provided this interpreter, this translator. Her name was Paulina. I would preach and she would start to translate for me.
Woman: [Russian]
STEVE: Then she’d turn and whisper and she’d say, “But Steve, you know I don’t believe.” I said, “It doesn’t matter. You’re doing great. Keep going.” And this was what was always going on. One day I came into an auditorium, a large auditorium. God was healing and the Lord spoke to me and said, “Go to the back.” There were bleachers in the back. I said, “Paulina, come, let’s go.” We went to the back and there was a woman who had very advanced liver disease. She was jaundiced, just yellow, and her stomach was very extended. I said, “Paulina, would you just put your hand on her and I want you to say this.”
Man: In the name of Jesus, I command the spirit to leave this woman and never come back.
STEVE: And she said, “But Steve, you know I don’t believe.” I said, “It doesn’t matter.”
Woman: “In the name of Jesus, I command the spirit of disease to leave this woman and never return.”
STEVE: And the woman suddenly shouted out, “Fire! Fire! I’m on fire!” And like that, her descended stomach when shoo! And her flesh was pink. This is what I see all the time. The power is in the Gospel. Romans 1:16: “The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
SID: I’ll tell you what, when we come back, I’m going to have Steve pray for you when we come back.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest has trained thousands of Bible believers that never prayed for the sick, never saw miracles and they’re starting to see miracles. I mean, not minor miracles, I mean blind eyes opened, deaf ears hearing, people in wheelchairs getting out, and he says he can equip anyone to do that. Anyone interested? Me, too. You know, Steve, one of the things that I really appreciate about you is you’re saying that you don’t need to be a TV star. You don’t need to have a great gift from God of healing. All you need is the teaching of the Word and doing it. Really, people see blind eyes opened, deaf ears opened, the crippled walking, the dead raised, and they don’t have any special gifts?
STEVE: And they don’t have any special gifts, Sid. You know, even in the last few weeks as I’ve been to five or six nations, I’ve watched [people] who have come with me from all over the developed world with no training. I spend a day with them and we get out, and in the last few weeks I can’t even tell you how many blind eyes open, how many deaf ears open, mutes speaking because it’s our inheritance.
SID: I understand what you’re saying, but I’ve always been told you have to work up your faith. You start with a headache then you work for five or six years to get deaf ears open. You don’t see that as a necessity, do you?
STEVE: Absolutely not. You know, I think of a guy Rick, who we did some training in Africa and we finished early. I said, “Why don’t you guys just go up and pray for somebody.” And he went up, and he only made it about 300 yards, and he found a kid who was born completely deaf, and the Lord opened his ears. He didn’t have any track record. He just had discovered by spending the day together that this is part of his inheritance.
SID: Now you’re a spiritual father. You mentored a gentleman that has work in India.
STEVE: Yes.
SID: What did he do?
STEVE: Oh, he’s done wonderful things. He started with just him and his wife and he now has over 600,000 in his church.
SID: Did you get that, 600,000, starting with just him and his wife? Now that is growth.
STEVE: That is serious growth and it’s all about multiplication, not addition. You know, just in the last three and a half months, and I checked with him just before this show, he has started another 5,020 churches, over 200,000 people in the last three and a half months. So God is moving in a remarkable, remarkable way. Last year, he baptized 150,000 people and this year it will be more than that.
SID: There is a story you tell that it got to me. You talk about praying for a deaf mute and God speaking to you.
STEVE: I’ve seen the Lord do that so many times. But when I prayed for that man, here’s what happened. I took a team. We were in Mexico, actually. I took a team and the first night there was a word of knowledge and an 11-year-old boy was brought forward who had been mute his entire life. And one of the team prayed for him, not me, and he instantly spoke. Sid, it was like flicking a light switch. He just spoke fluently. The next night I was in another town. After we preached the Gospel, people came forward, a lot of people came forward and I began to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to just come and fill them. And it was a 13-year-old girl who had been deaf since she was three when she got meningitis, and suddenly her ears were open. She was crying. Her mother was crying. Everybody was just excited. I felt this sadness come over me and couldn’t understand it. So I stepped back. Nobody was looking at me, they were looking at what was going on there and I said, “Why do I feel sad?” And he said something I’ll never forget. It was one of those markers in life. He said to me, “Remember the boy last night who couldn’t speak and then he could?” I said, “Sure.” He said, “You see that girl who was deaf and now she could hear?” I said, “Yes, Papa.” He said to me, “I have been waiting for years to do that, but nobody would release it.”
SID: That was the statement that got to me.
STEVE: Sid, how much is Heaven waiting to release in all our towns and all our cities just waiting for us to release it?
SID: You do seminars where you teach people how to release the power of God and there was a young boy in the seminar, just nine years old. He was there just because he was waiting to go to school. That was in India, but something dramatic happened to him. He picked up a lot more than most people would have thought.
STEVE: It was interesting. He actually, we thought he was sleeping on the back, on the pew and but he had been learning. The next day after school, he burst in the front door and he said to his mother, “It works! It works! I did what Uncle said!” And he prayed for a friend who had been chronically sick and he was healed. Two days later, I took him, little nine-year-old Abasheik [sp] and some other young people to a very remote Indian village and I started to tell him about Jesus. A crowd gathered and then I had these young people start to pray for the sick, and nine-year-old Abasheik prayed for a 35-year-old man who had been deaf his whole life, and his ears opened, and it caused a move of God in that whole village.
SID: I would like to know the very first person you prayed [for] that was sick, what happened?
STEVE: It was in 1977, and I was a new believer. I got a phone call. My friend’s sister had been in a car accident. She had broken vertebrae, crushed discs, would I please come and pray for her. I had never prayed for anyone. I prayed for supper, that’s about it. I went to the house. I was nervous, trying to pretend I wasn’t. They’re all looking at me and I went to pray for her, and someone said, “Aren’t you going to anoint her with oil?” And I’m thinking, what is that? But on the outside, I said, “Oh yes, of course, of course.” And somebody got me a bottle of Crisco and I just let her have it because I didn’t know any different. So I prayed what might have been one of the slipperiest prayers, and I prayed and it was rather a pathetic prayer. I just kind of mumbled. I was so nervous. And when I was done they all looked at me like, that’s it? And the Lord instantly healed her. And in fact, there was a series.
SID: Were you shocked?
STEVE: You bet. I was really shocked.
Woman: Praise the Lord! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you, Jesus. Thank you.
SID: He doesn’t pray for someone else for another six years. But there was a dramatic change in his life when he was challenged. If you will pray for 200 people you’ll kick right into that gear. He did it, it worked. And when we come back I want to find out what that nine-year-old Indian learned that caused him to walk instantly in miracles. Be right back.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: Let me read from Romans the 11th chapter the 24th verse, “For if you were cutout of the olive tree which is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree. How much more will these who are natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?” You know I thought many times that here we have been grafted into a Greco-Roman olive tree but it was supposed to be the other way around. The Gentile was to be grafted into the Jewish olive tree. Won’t it be easier for Jewish people that do not know their Messiah when they can see the Jewish olive tree? I have a Hebraic scholar on the phone, a wonderful Bible teacher. I’m speaking to him at his home in Cincinnati, Kevin Howard. The reason I have him on the telephone is I’m featuring this week his book. The only word I have for this book and it’s called “The Feasts of the Lord,” is magnificent. It’s a hardback book and it has the most gorgeous artwork so that you can visualize the way Yeshua, that’s Hebrew for Jesus, observed these Biblical festivals. It’ll like bring you right into the home and see how these festivals were observed from a historical basis, from a modern basis, and most importantly from a prophetic basis. Now Kevin Howard you do this wonderfully in your book but I would like you take us through each of the 7 main festivals and explain its prophetic significance.
Kevin: Well the Lord gave 7 annual feasts or holidays for Israel. Four were spring feasts and 3 were the fall or autumn feasts. To tie it all together Paul told us clearly in Colossians 2:16, 17 that “The feasts were simply shadows of the Messiah and the Messiah was a substance.” These feasts speak prophetically of the Messiah, Jesus the Savior. Now these 7 feasts, 7 annual feasts the first one is Passover begins in spring the first feast is a one day holiday and this speaks of redemption. God redeemed Israel brought them out of Egypt, but Paul tells us clearly in Corinthians that, he says to quote him “For even Messiah our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed for us.” He says without any hesitation, any doubt at all Messiah when He died as our sacrifice He was fulfilling the Passover lamb, a very important part of His death. So prophetically Passover looks back to God’s redemption of Israel out of Egypt, but prophetically it looks forward to Jesus dying as a sin offering, as a substitute for us to redeem us from the greater bondage that of sin. So the Passover speaks of the death of the Passover Lamb, the Messiah who was yet to come. Now the 2nd holiday is Unleavened Bread it’s a 7day holiday. During that holiday only unleavened bread is eaten speaks of purity and sanctification. Prophetically that speaks of Messiah when He was in the tomb, when He was in the grave He did not decay. That was a direct fulfillment of prophecy in Psalm 19 as well as Isaiah 53, the Messiah was not to rot or decay in the grave. Why? Otherwise He’d be under the curse, He’d be a sinner, it would indicate He was a sinner but yet He was a perfect clear sacrifice. So unleavened bread speaks about the Messiah’s burial, that was one of the key points of the gospel. He would die, be buried, then He would raise again and that’s the 3rd holiday. First Fruits was the 3rd holiday that spoke of resurrection. A sheaf of grain was taken to the temple, in the days of Israel’s temple, but Paul used long and hard and with great eloquence in 1st Corinthians 15 “That Jesus is our first fruits.” And by that he said clearly “The fact that Jesus rose from the dead on First Fruits and became our first fruits is guarantee that there will be a final harvest.” That is all men, all mankind are going to raise from the dead someday. First some, the righteous, to resurrection of blessing, there’s going to be a 2nd resurrection under damnation, but… so we have 3, 3 of the 4 spring holidays. Jesus died on Passover became our Passover Lamb, He was in the grave on Feast of Unleavened Bread, He rose again on First Fruits and became our first fruits. Then 50 days later, or 50 days after Passover you have the Feast of Weeks, or what the New Testament calls Pentecost, 50th. It was on that holiday that Jesus, Messiah, sent the Holy Spirit as a fill and a guarantee and bringing in of the New Covenant which Jeremiah promised and prophesied.
Sid: Isn’t it amazing Kevin that these Biblical feasts are such prophetic shadows, but not only that even their order is exactly the way the Messiah came and died and was buried and rose, and sent the Holy Spirit.
Kevin: Exactly no mistakes with God always on schedule. So you’ve got the 4 spring feasts…
Sid: You know a lot of… well in traditional Judaism the last part, or the conclusion of Passover is Pentecost, or Shavuot. They put it all together.
Kevin: You’re right that’s the close of the Passover season. It’s really amazing when you begin to look at the holidays, at the feasts exactly how clear of a picture the Messiah it is. So I would submit to you that the New Testament clearly teaches that the Messiah in His first coming fulfilled the first 4 holidays or the spring holidays. Then there’s a long summer stretch there…
Sid: And as you pointed out yesterday isn’t it fascinating that we have this long stretch to separate the 2 appearances of the Messiah.
Kevin: Exactly.
Sid: It’s been a long stretch (laughing).
Kevin: It sure has and we look forward to His soon return. That’s really what the 3 fall feasts look forward to. Trumpets, or what is today called Rosh Hashanah…
Sid: And I might point out Mishpochah that this Friday even begins Rosh Hashanah, go ahead Kevin.
Kevin: Sure. Well those 3 holidays speak about his 2nd coming, Messiah’s 2nd coming. In just a quick thumbnail sketch, Trumpets the observance of Trumpets was with the shofar. That speaks prophetically of the Messiah’s return. Paul, the Apostle Paul, said “The Messiah’s going to return and the Lord will descend and it will be with a shout of the archangel and the trumpet of God.” The shofar is going to be blown, the Messiah’s going to begin His return, and it will be a time of great pouring out of great judgment upon the earth. It’s a… the Trumpets, the Feast of Trumpets is a very somber holiday. A time of preparing for the 6th holiday or Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, so it’s a time of preparation and time of really dealing with one’s sins and repenting. So Rosh Hashanah the beginning of the high holy days speaks of the Messiah coming in great wrath to judge the wicked but also to blow the shofar and deliver the righteous to Himself. The next holiday Yom Kippur, Day of Atonement that prophetically speaks of the Messiah dealing and meeting with Israel as a nation to bring them to repentance as a nation. Paul looked forward to this when Israel as he said in Romans chapter 11 “All Israel shall be saved.” He said “When the times of the Gentiles is finished,” or prophetically that long summer stretch of months, when that’s finished Israel’s going to be saved as a nation.
Sid: How do you picture that? How do you visualize that Kevin that event?
Kevin: Sort of like Jeremiah, sorry Zechariah chapter 12, “They are going to physically,” as a nation, “be brought into the wilderness and be brought upon Me whom they have pierced (putting the Lord through Zechariah) and mourn for Him as an only Son.” There’s a day coming when Israel is prepared, turns and repents to the Lord and all of a sudden sees and realizes that the Messiah is none other than Jesus. The one they had abhorred so here He is and so they mourn for Him as an only Son.
Sid: Well that’s 6 festivals there’s 7 one more.
Kevin: The final festival is called Tabernacles or usually in Jewish circles called Sukkot, the building of booths. That prophetically looks forward to the time when the Messiah is going to come and tabernacle, or dwell, as Zephaniah said “God will dwell among His people and of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end. The Son of David will come, He will descend, He will usher in His kingdom and there will be peace and harmony, it will be paradise on earth, and Tabernacles speaks of that time.
Sid: Well how far away do you feel we are from the fulfillment of those last 3 festivals?
Kevin: Well the Bible doesn’t tell us obviously, you know a specific date, it tells us to be ready and to be watching.
Sid: I tell you with what’s going on in Jerusalem today, what’s going with the peace process, what’s going on with the computers, what’s going on with the sin, and the judgments coming that are actually on this earth, I really believe it could be very close.
Kevin: It could be so close and happen so quickly that those who aren’t watching and ready just catch them by surprise. I mean the Temple Mount is at the center and East Jerusalem is at the center of all the peace negotiations discussed, and things could move very quickly around those topics.
Sid: Well Kevin on the rest of the week I’d like to take each Biblical festival.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Ella Brunt. I’m speaking to her at her home Texas City, Texas. On July 2, 1997 she went with her 2 children at that time 6 and 8 years of age and at her little boy Cody. There was a gush of wind the sailboat tipped over and Cody went into the water. He was under the water for a good 10 minutes. He had all the vital signs of being dead. So the helicopter came they took him to the hospital. Her husband wasn’t there she called and left a message on the answering machine. When he got it what a report to hear, so he is riding to the hospital with his mother. In the meantime Ella is on her way to the hospital because Cody… the helicopter had taken him to the hospital. The doctors really gave him no chance to survive, but supernaturally Ella was standing on God’s promises. You told me that God spoke to your husband on the way to the hospital and gave him a strategy or a game plan if you will, but there was one thing that he heard that I’ve got to repeat again because it’s so important. This is what he heard from God as he was praying and driving to the hospital: “Faith filled words dominate the laws of death. Faith filled words dominate the laws of death.” What was the game plan he got that he told you when he came to the hospital and met you for the very first time?
Ella: Okay whenever I got to the hospital he had beaten me there actually.
Sid: Hmm.
Ella: He had some things that he knew that through the “Faith filled words dominate the laws of death” that we had to guard whatever we spoke in this situation. Whatever came out of our mouth would either be life or death for our son. So he told me “Ella we’ll only speak words of faith and the desire to end results. Number 2 we won’t let anybody around him that won’t agree with us. We won’t let anybody around him speak death or we will… if they can’t agree with us that’s he’s going to walk out of this hospital a 100% restored we’re going to keep those kind of people away from Cody and we’re only going to speak faith filled words over him.” So that’s what we chose to do. Even though the reports were coming at us that his lungs were completely full of fluid, of saltwater and that he had brain damage. The doctors looked at us and he said “Your son is a very very sick little boy that if he lives through the night his brain will start swelling. We’ll have to drill holes in his skull. There’s massive brain damage and we won’t know for a couple of days just how severe it is. But that’s not his real problem…” I thought “Well my goodness that’s bad enough.”
Sid: That sounds like a problem to me.
Ella: Yeah but he said “That’s not his main problem. The main thing is his lungs from the saltwater is hemorrhaging and we can’t stop the bleeding.” So that’s one thing that they couldn’t fix. They couldn’t have medication or anything like that, then with brain damage you can’t reverse what the oxygen… whenever it’s dead it’s dead. So that was report and it was like we could hear what he was saying but it wasn’t registering for one thing and soon as he got through my husband looked him and said “Doctor I thank you for everything that you’re doing for Cody but I want you to listen to my report.” He proceeded to say that we were believers in Jesus Christ and we just wanted to go in see our son and lay our hands on him and pray the prayer of faith that we believe God to raise him up and that he would walk out of that hospital 100% normal.
Sid: How did the doctors react?
Ella: He just looked at us like “Bless your darling heart you’re in denial but that’s just our report. That’s what the medical facts are and as soon as we get Cody stabilized and up in ICU, PICU you will be able to see your son and we’ll allow you to go in and see him.” So there was quite a while that lapsed before we could actually see him. The news reporters were already there in the hospital so they were keeping us hidden from them. I was in a bathing suit, my daughter was in a bathing suit so they got hospital scrubs and put us in those because we were kind of giveaways for that. So we got up to the PICU floor and I looked over there and there was a group of people from our church that had already gotten there. There was about 20 people there waiting and I just kind of looked at them and they ushered quickly into the PICU unit and again the doctor up there told us the same story. Again Ted said “I thank you for your report but I want to tell you our report.” So he again said that we wanted to lay hands on our son and pray. He said “Okay you can do that.” I said “There’s about 20 people out here could they come in too?” He just looked at me and said “Okay.” I thought it was the favor of God that would let us do that but later on I found out that they did not expect him to live through the night. So whenever they do that they relax some of the rules which it was a rule in PICU that only 2 people can be beside the bed at a time. So they said “Sure they can come in they have to wash their hands and go through the sterilization procedure.” At that point I went out and told that they could come and what they would have to do. So they came in and if they couldn’t lay hands on the bed or part of Cody they laid hands on a doctor or whoever was by them. One of our care ministers were there and Ted actually asked him as an authority in our church to pray for Cody and we would agree with him in prayer, so we did that night. Then we had to leave and they had to do some more procedures on Cody with some catheters and things like that for their life saving things. So there was time where we were just waiting for a good part of the night. We and Ted whenever we came back out told the people exactly what we were going to do. We weren’t going to speak any negative report, we were only going to speak faith over Cody and not allow anybody else that couldn’t and only speak the desired end results. We were here at the hospital they didn’t believe Cody would make it through the night and so we were just right outside the PICU doors just in a waiting pattern. People were starting to come and just show their love and concern and some other people went home to get us some clothes and take Britney and Grammy home so they could be settled in for the night.
Sid: Now you were you… tell me the truth now, were you at this point having heard the reports from the doctors knowing what’s going on backing down some in your faith stance?
Ella: If I would allow my mind to think of him all I could think of is getting a picture of him reaching out to me in panic. My heart went out to him knowing that he hates anything medically and if he would wake up to see all this stuff on him, but also there was just a supernatural peace, that’s all I could say, is a supernatural peace because I usually faint at the site of needles and that sort of thing. So all the paraphernalia that was on Cody at the time it was just supernatural for me to even to stand beside that bed and look at my son at this point hooked up to all this.
Sid: Ella we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Ella Brunt. I’m speaking to Ella at her home in Texas City, Texas. On July 2, 1997 she went on a family outing, her 2 children and her nephew went on a sailboat and suddenly there was a big gust of wind and the boat rolled over. Her son Cody 6 years old at the time went under. He was under the water for a good 10 minutes. When they got him out of the water what did he look like Ella?
Ella: He was blue in color, he was just a limp dishrag I mean there was no life, no action, no anything. The off duty police officer who helped assist us, finally, took his vital signs which there was no breathing and there was no pulse. So going off of that information he started immediately to give him artificial… well CPR there on this boat that had come up to help us. So that was vital time that we needed also that we didn’t have to wait till we got back to the dock, they could start CPR right there.
Sid: What were you doing while all this was going on once they started the CPR?
Ella: I was still in the water just watching you know. So whenever they started CPR and I saw that first gush of water come out of Cody’s mouth I started going, I started swimming towards the boat and then miraculously got up on the boat. Then we started going back to the shore. The off duty police officer was just a God send because he knew just how to give CPR and worked on him all the way up until we got to the dock. They had already called 911 some people out on the pier at that time and they were delayed getting there they went to the wrong place.
Sid: Hmm.
Ella: So here we are we’ve got him up on the dock and they’re continually because he hadn’t started breathing at this point on his own so they’re continually giving him CPR. My nephew is just exhausted he’s just leaned over, and slumped over on one of the pier pilings. I could see that he was having just guilt all over him. I knew that we needed a miracle on both hands my nephew had bipolar manic depression and he was under medication. I knew in my heart that if anything happened to Cody that it would really be the end of Wallace because with bipolar you have suicidal tendencies and all that sort of thing with that. It was not just one victim here there was 2 victims in this particular accident. So finally the paramedics did arrive they took over the life saving process with CPR. They actually incubated him there before they left there on the dock which I was not around during that particular thing. They were making progress to get the Life Flight helicopter to land over in the parking lot so whenever the paramedics came I thought “Well I certainly can’t do any good.” While they were working on him I was standing over him saying “You’ll live and not die and declare the works of the Lord,” just praying over him then some in the spirit and some in my understanding of prayer. Britney was over towards the side and I just kind of looked at her and just kind of gave her a thumbs up because we were too far apart to converse or anything. I had to go and re-park my car and I felt like I could do that once the professional paramedics got to the scene. So they were working on Cody and we were making way for the Life Flight to land. The news helicopters were already up in the air there was about 3 helicopters over and those were news helicopters from Houston. Whenever I did move my car I called my husband at work, well left him a message at home in case he had got there, he had already left work. Then I also called my pastor that I knew that I needed support here and so I called him up and I got him at home. He immediately agreed with us that he would live and not die and he prayed the prayer of faith too and agreed with me. I went back to the dock and the Life Flight helicopter had landed and they started working on Cody and taking him to the helicopter and letting me know that I couldn’t ride to Houston on the helicopter because that’s just the way it was and there was not much room in there to work anyway.
Sid: Where was your husband?
Ella: My husband was at work during all this incident and when I did call work he had already left. So that’s not a pleasant thing to call and leave a message on the phone recorder for him to get whenever he got home. All I could say was Cody had been underwater for a while and they’re transporting him to Herman Hospital in Houston and that’s all I said.
Sid: You know it seems to me that most Christians if they had a vision that there son was dead and their son was underwater for 10 minutes and he appeared for all practical purposes dead, you were still holding on to something higher than that vision and something higher than what you were seeing with your eyes. How could you do this?
Ella: It’s just the supernatural of God I really can’t take any credit as far as being calm and everything. It seems like when I made that choice in the water to believe God and trust God regardless there was a supernatural calm and a peace that passed all the understanding in the natural realm. It just consumed me and it just comforted me to know this is not the final outcome even though Cody looked awful from all outward appearances I just believed God for a miracle from the very start that we needed a miracle and that was our goal. So my face was set for nothing less than a 100% son just like I had him.
Sid: Okay your husband hasn’t gotten back to you, you left a message on the recorder, you’re driving with your brother to the hospital. What’s going on in the car as you’re driving?
Ella: In the car we were praising God we would sing choruses and then I’d get on my cell phone and I’d think of different people to call. Whenever I’d call up their number and they would answer I’d say “Now I want you to believe with us that Cody will live and not die and declare the works of the Lord.” Which is just a scripture out of Psalms, and I said “He was under the water. We had a sailboat accident and we’re on our way to Herman and we just need you to pray with us.” That’s all I’d say I wouldn’t go into any great detail because this time was of the essence. It was rush hour traffic so we actually had about an hour drive to get to the hospital but instead of using that time and just thinking “Oh no you know what’s going to happen?” I wouldn’t allow myself to go there I would just continue to keep my mind on the things of God and the word of God and sing praises. That’s totally opposite of what you would naturally do, but we were just in a situation. I just believed God that whenever He performed miracles that He raised people from the Bible and that’s what I had to stand on. So that’s where I was.
Sid: Okay, you’re headed to the hospital in the meantime your husband headed home and he doesn’t know what’s occurred and he gets home and he goes and he gets his messages and he gets the message from you. What happened to your husband?
Ella: He relayed to me the story later whenever he touched the doorknob there that afternoon he knew that something was wrong. He immediately went and checked the messages which is uncommon for him he just doesn’t care about telephones. So he got the message and he said he could even hear the helicopters in the background. So he listened to it then he replayed it another time and he listened to it, and so he called his mom and he said “Mom I got this message from Ella and I want you to listen to it.” So he played it and let his mom listen to it and she said “Oh they just had that on the 5:00 news, but they said it was a little girl that drowned.” Ted told his mom “No that’s not a girl that’s Cody and will you ride with me to the hospital with me I’ll come by and pick you up?” So that was his, that was what he did. So he went and picked his mother up and while they were driving to the hospital they were praying in the Spirit and God spoke to him a couple of things on the way up there to where by the time he got to the hospital it’s almost like God gave him a battle plan.
Sid: What did God say to him as he was driving?
Ella: He would drive along and all of a sudden he heard these words “Faith filled words dominate the laws of death.”
Sid: Someone needs to hear that would you repeat that again.
Ella: Faith filled words dominate the laws of death. He looked even over there at his mother thinking “Well maybe she said that.” There was nobody else in the truck but her and Ted. So he just kind of paused for a minute and again he heard only this time it was stronger “Faith filled words dominate the laws of death!” So he remembered immediately that that was a message that Kenneth Copeland had preached and he had heard it over the radio probably 25 years ago it was even Kenneth Copeland’s voice. So it just strengthened him because it was just a word from God at the right point…
Sid: Now you didn’t know this at the time.
Ella: No.
Sid: But what had the doctor decided about your son in the hospital?
Ella: Well whenever he got to the emergency room he had no pain reflex, he had no even deep pain reflex which is more severe. That he was not reacting to any of their tests. The x-rays showed that his lungs were a complete whiteout, in other words they were full of water. Also whenever he did that initial eruption of saltwater that was in his lungs they didn’t turn his head so he took that back down in his lungs with also some contents of his stomach. There was foreign matter, there was saltwater now…
Sid: Did they expect him to live?
Ella: No.
Sid: I tell you what we’re out of time Mishpochah come on back tomorrow.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: My guests in the studio are red hot for the Messiah Doug and Jean Jones. They are teachers from Shiloh Place Ministries Conway, South Carolina. You’re familiar with Shiloh place Ministry of Jack Frost that has been a guest many times on our show. Doug and Jean unfortunately have a lot in common with a lot of the people that are listening to us right now. They were believers, Doug was into his career, and Jean was getting increasingly uncomfortable there was no communication. They both were living their own life they were almost strangers in their own house and she had enough and the only thing she knew was make plans to leave. And of course Doug he doesn’t even have a clue but he thinks it’s her he doesn’t think that it has anything to do with him. And so they start having a little home group and studying about bitterroots and strongholds in their life and all of a sudden the light bulb goes on for Doug and he sees that his father was an alcoholic and used to beat him and was harsh. He had and let me ask you about this Doug you used the term explain what you mean by “You had emotionally divorced yourself from your father,” what do you mean by that?
Doug: I had completely rejected anything that my father stood for. I just made it in my own heart that I would not deal with him in any way he was a nonentity to me although we lived in the same home I would try not to even enter the house when he was there except that he would go to bed and I would come in. I was a sick little boy and not knowing that I sick because I was so angry in trying to punish my father not being around him.
Sid: And you separated that for us which was very helpful for us yesterday and you said “Your sin was not that your father was doing bad things he was doing bad things but it was the judgment of him rather than his sin.” And explain that you have to separate the two.
Doug: Whenever we have someone who wounds us or hurts us 99.9% of the time will find out that hurt people hurt people. And they’re not trying to hurt us because they want to they were raised that way, they have wounds that they don’t know how to deal with them and so they hurt us out of their own emotional instability things from their past. And what God does is allows us to forgive the person for what they do but if we don’t forgive them and we judge them and have bitterness towards them what we’ve done is entered into sin ourselves. And my sin separated me from the loving grace of the Father God and I became a very dysfunctional person. I didn’t think, I didn’t hear, to talk, I didn’t feel anything.
Sid: So in other words because you judged your father and divorced him emotionally you froze your emotions is that a fair statement.
Doug: Right I froze my emotions at a very young age and they did not develop until I was almost 50 years old.
Sid: But I have to tell you something Doug it sounds to simple I mean the light bulb goes on you realize that you made a bigger judgment against your father, you confess your sin. It sounds to me too easy.
Doug: Well you know what it really is easy if you see the light and you make a decision and you find out of how all of these different strongholds are built within yourself then you can go into each of these areas and search and say “God is there anything in me in this area that I need to confess as sin my own life?” But scripture even tells us that we can confess the sins of our forefathers and one of the ways that deep hurts and wounds and strongholds built within us is through generational sins.
Sid: Like what give me some examples.
Doug: Say my father was a womanizer he ran around with a lot of people and so was adultery and perhaps his father and perhaps his father did the same thing and his father did the same thing. And if there’s a sin of immorality had been in the family before you then there’s an iniquity that follows the bloodline to the 3rd and 4th generation. And in some types of sin even to the 10th and the 12th generation. So what we do we confess the sins of our forefathers so that the iniquity or the leaning toward sin in that area of our lives will be taken away and we can deal with our relationship without the iniquity or the leaning on the pressure of what our forefathers had done.
Sid: Jean tell me a bit about the anger that Doug expressed how did he express it at home.
Jean: Well sometimes he would be verbally abusive as I said Doug and I were counselors and we went to a meeting called CASA, which is Citizens Against Spouse Abuse, because we wanted to help those that were in that type of situation.
Sid: Did you realize at the time that you were in that situation?
Jean: No we went because we thought well mostly husbands would abuse wives and they showed us a cycle of physical abuse.
Sid: But it could be the other way around.
Jean: But then verbal abuse is also abuse they showed us a cycle of how someone gets angry and then they’re sorry and their nice for a season and then inside of them this volcano begins to build and then they explode again. And that’s what was happening with us it wasn’t physical but it was verbal. So when we came out of that meeting I said “Doug did you know that you are a verbal abuser?”
Sid: Doug what did you say?
Doug: I said “You’re crazy I’m not a verbal abuser how can you say I’m a verbal abuser and right now I started verbally abusing her” (Laughing).
Sid: (Laughing).
Doug: That she would accuse me of such a thing I was such a defense for myself that she would say anything that would affect me or come against me I’d explode in her face and not really realizing that I was doing it as a self protection I could not stand someone coming against me because of the insecurity that was built within me because of these strongholds that I had had from childhood.
Sid: So when someone came against you how would you react?
Doug: I’d fight if it was a physical threat I would fight them physically, if it was emotional I learned to use my tongue and I would defeat them verbally. If it was to a point that I thought that I could not win then I would reject them before they could reject me.
Sid: Self protection.
Doug: Self protection I live with…
Sid: We all want to protect ourselves don’t we?
Doug: Yes we do and I had developed all of the means to protect myself and the little world that I had even to the point that I reject you before you can reject me.
Sid: But this was all subconscious and this was as Jean you were explaining it was sort of like stone upon stone to the point where I mean it’s an awful way to live you remember the way it used to be.
Jean: Hmm hm. And we used to talk about well we had to walk around on egg shells I heard a lot of woman say that you know we have to be quiet because Daddy’s mad today so he would ignore us for a couple of days or just be quiet and sit in his chair and then until he wanted his physical needs met and then he’d be lovey dovey and then we knew everything was alright. But walking around on egg shells…
Sid: The dad you’re talking about is your husband though.
Jean: Right the children’s daddy they would have to walk around on eggshells also. So we would learn when he’s angry we’d just keep quiet we knew that we couldn’t say anything.
Sid: But you said on yesterday’s broadcast “But look at the fruit, the bad fruit there’s got to be a root somewhere.” Tell me what some of that bad fruit might be.
Jean: Well there’s the disregard for the consequences of sin or for your actions if you don’t look at what’s going to happen down the road you just begin to do your own thing or addictions or compulsions. And say in my father’s line there was a leaning toward alcoholism out of the 5 children in his family there were 3 that were alcoholics and they were in the grandparent line so there was a generation of alcoholism in my family line. But my father didn’t go in that direction and his children didn’t go in that direction but these are some of the patterns. The dysfunctional family was in our pattern…
Sid: You know I hear that word a lot it seems to me that everyone is dysfunctional to a degree but what do you really mean when you say dysfunctional family?
Jean: It was a new word we learned too but that’s where we were don’t trust, and don’t talk and don’t feel. I was not allow to cry around the children so if I had feelings and I was really hurt I would have to stay up late at night after the children had gone to bed and just cry and pour my heart out to God and say “What am I going to do help me not to hate him and please help me learn how to forgive” and things like that.
Sid: But there’s a better way to live. But if let’s suppose you decide that you want to live that way and your husband did not and Doug did not is there anything that can be done for him?
Jean: Well prayer I prayed with my church and I began to pray and God finally sent someone into our lives to help us.
Doug: But you know though the fact is that if there’s a problem with me she cannot change me God and the Holy Spirit in me can change me.
Sid: In fact the more she tried to change you I bed the more you resisted.
Doug: The more I resisted the only hope we have is that through God we can change ourselves. We can pray that God will send His Holy Spirit to connect with our loved one our husband or wife or who the caregiver may be that has hurt us and wounded us so they will receive help. But don’t wait for them to receive help connect with God and get your own life straightened out.
Sid: So the person that is praying right now “Oh God change my husband.” It probably starts with “God what are you showing me?”
Jean: And there was a lot of spiritual pride in my family and you know Doug could feel that like I’m feeling like “Why doesn’t he get it straight and our family could be just like they should be and why doesn’t he do this and why doesn’t he read his Bible more.”
Sid: If he would just do that everything would be okay.
Jean: Right we’d be a perfect family a perfect Christian family.
Doug: But you don’t get to be perfect by just reading the scriptures.
Jean: But he could feel that coming from me.
Sid: Wait a minute you started something you have to finish that Doug.
Doug: Because the scriptures are very very important but just reading the scriptures alone will not change you you’ve got to allow the Holy Spirit to deal with you with what revelation you receive from the scriptures. Just reading them won’t do it you have to let the Holy Spirit teach you and submit to what He says.
Sid: Okay you found out the Holy Spirit lead you in dreams and circumstances; you found out about this bitterroot judgment that’s where the root came from of your father. You repented of this sin but and you said it’s a process, but what happens now if your wife says something and even though you’ve repented and it triggered something in you what do you do?
Doug: Well if it will trigger but what we’ve learned is that you ask the Holy Spirit to give you a moment a peace between the confrontation and your decision to respond to the confrontation. And God is a gentleman He will give you a moment to think about the decision.
Sid: Excuse me we’re out of time Mishpochah very interesting conversation…
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
Sid: I have in the studio Doug and Jean Jones they’re from Shiloh Place Ministries. Their teachers of a subject that too few Christians understand and every one of us must understand it. The subject is bitterroot strongholds and better yet understanding what they are and how to deal with them. We found out that Doug and Jean were married for 39 years and from Doug’s viewpoint 38½ of the 39 years were happy but Jean that was not from your viewpoint. In fact you indicated that things got so tense you were thinking of leaving.
Jean: True.
Sid: And of course he was caught up in his job and so he was relatively happy but the children leave and all of a sudden you’ve got yourselves to look at. And how tense was it Jean?
Jean: There were several tense times raising the children especially as teenagers they wanted me to leave because my son was really the object of my husband’s anger most of the time.
Sid: Isn’t that interesting because Doug you father made you the object of his anger.
Doug: That’s right.
Sid: And is that how this bitterroot judgment works.
Doug: That’s exactly how it got started. I because of my father’s bitterness and anger and the way he treated us I judged him as being an unfit parent one that was full of anger, he wasn’t worthy of my respect.
Sid: But the truth is that was true that was a true judgment he was an alcoholic he was beating you mother it was true about what you were judging him.
Doug: No what I was doing I was judging him and God tells us we cannot judge the individual we can judge what they do as what they do as being wrong, we can’t judge them as being wrong of bad. That’s where we get into trouble we identify a person’s actions with who they really are and God makes the difference. He splits who you are from what you do. And when we start saying because a man does something that’s bad he is bad then we’ve taken on the responsibility of God. That’s him.
Sid: So are you saying to me because of that sin of judgment of your father carried on into your generation.
Doug: Yes it does scripture tells us clearly that the sins of the fathers be passed on to the 3rd and the 4th generation. And it says the same measure that you judge will be will come back on you and you’ll be judged on the same measure. And most of the cases people will do exactly opposite of what they judge their parent or the same thing. Very seldom has it become in between you do the opposite or your exactly like your father or whoever it was that you judged or you had a judgment against.
Sid: Now if Jean had succeeded in divorcing you and you hadn’t gotten help and you married again do you think you would have reproduced the same thing in the next marriage?
Doug: Statistically I think that I would have done the same thing without help we cannot help but do the same thing because we don’t know any better.
Sid: But you thought the problem was your wife not you.
Doug: Oh yeah definitely that’s one of the symptoms of this type of emotional distortion of our life. I live in what we call a very dysfunctional family we don’t trust we don’t talk, we don’t feel. And so if I leave one marriage and go to another all I’ve done is change places and changed faces. I’ve done nothing with the problem that I have in my life.
Sid: How in the world get this Mishpochah they’re under the same roof but in affect it’s so bad for Jean that she wants a divorce they were two strangers in the house. Is that the way you looked at it Jean.
Jean: This is true we did not communicate with one another especially on any level that Doug didn’t want to talk about.
Sid: What was your background?
Jean: I had a good background I used to say it was perfect but Doug decided otherwise (Laughing).
Sid: (Laughing).
Jean: But I had a good loving father. My parents loved the Lord and they walked with the Lord. My dad was very loving and he was verbal and I was the most beautiful girl in the world and wonderful girl in the world. And he said the same thing about my mother she was the most wonderful lady in the world and he was very big on giving gifts and flowers and cards and he was sentimental and Doug was that way when we dated. So I thought I’d found my knight in shining armor but when we got married he was not like that. He would forget Birthday’s, I would remind him of Mother’s Day and he’d say “Well you’re not my Mother.” And you know I would cry because I just felt really rejected that he just really didn’t care about me. But Doug didn’t know how to care because his dad didn’t do those things and so he didn’t do those things. What happens is that after we get married our root structure begins to grow and those things that we don’t see when we’re dating and we’re in love well our root structure begins to grow and the things we argued about were not the things that were really the problems it was the roots that usually came from childhood.
Sid: How in the world did the two of you avoid divorce and get help?
Doug: After the 29 years the children left the home we met a guy named Jack Frost he came to our church like my wife said earlier and through our contact with him we started a full home fellowship our support group 4 couples that were having really deep problems in their marriage. Now I didn’t realize I had deep problems in our marriage I could see it in the other 3 couples that they had problems but I really didn’t see that I had a problem with my marriage. I saw that my wife had a little…
Sid: It’s kind of hard to correct something if you think it’s the other person.
Doug: That’s right but I was Christian and I knew that people needed help so I was going to join the group and sort of help Jack get some of the others out of their problems.
Sid: And first help your wife get the help.
Doug: Yeah my wife she needed help.
Sid: (Laughing).
Doug: She was not an obedient wife like I wanted her.
Sid: And what were you looking for out of the group Jean?
Jean: Just help because I knew we were desperate and that we needed help. But let me tell you this at that time we were active in the church, we were active in the denominational church for years we taught Sunday school. Average people would look at us and say “Oh what a wonderful Christian family.” And we probably had an argument on the way to church and then we’d act nice at church and look very pious and then after that we’d might argue the rest but Sunday’s we’re always a bad day I don’t know what was stirred up but Sunday’s was always a bad day for anger. And then after we became in a Spirit Filled church we began we still counseled people, we counseled a lot of couples.
Sid: Your counseling couples on marriage
Jean: Right.
Sid: And the mean time you’re on AM and he’s on FM.
Lisa: And I asked Doug one time “Does it bother you that we’re telling people to do things that we’re not doing?” And he said “No the truth is the truth whether we’re doing it or not.” So…
Sid: Doug when did you first…when did the light bulb go on that the problem wasn’t her it was you.
Doug: It was in that group of 4 couples seeking help in their marriage and I finally found someone that I could trust for 30 some years almost 50 years really I was the person that couldn’t trust anyone to make decisions for myself. And I was so afraid of being rejected that I would carry a mask I would put a mask in front of me and I would let you see what I wanted you to see. Because I was afraid if you really knew me you wouldn’t love me you would reject me. So outwardly I put on a mask that said that I was something that I really wasn’t. And through the teachings of “The Bruises of Satan” by Carol Thompson that Jack was taking us through it just finally broke. But here’s someone who cares about me who has value in me and not in what I do but who I am. And the Lord just sort of opened my eyes that there is someone that you can trust that you can be real to this person you can share your hurts, you can share your fears with these group of people because they love you. I was afraid that I would not be loved if they really knew who I was.
Sid: And so you had to play a role.
Doug: I had to play a role and we…
Sid: They didn’t even know that you were doing it it was so the role was more real than the real you.
Doug: That’s right it was a subconscious thing that I had developed through habit structures through my life and I automatically played these roles to protect myself it was part of these strongholds that I had built around these areas of defense to protect myself so I could function in the way I thought that I should function.
Sid: Okay you begin to see that you have these problems how did you get rid of them?
Doug: Well we haven’t completely gotten rid of all of them but we’re on the way we have started the process and we know that…
Sid: What is the major one the one that broke the devils back on the stronghold in your marriage.
Doug: Mine was anger, I was so eaten up with anger and bitterness and it was at my father and I didn’t really realize that I hated my father the way that I did. I’m going to tell you a story for years I would wake up in the middle of the night and I would be in this almost a sweat a panic that I would in the dream that I had in the middle of the night I had murdered a person and I drove him to a hole in the ground and I knew exactly who that was from my childhood I knew where that place was in the woods. And I thought that I had really killed someone and so I would just forget it and I was a Christian at this time and I would forget the thing and I would get away from the dream and it would go for another 6 months or so and then the dream would come back and I would wake up just startled in the middle of the night seeing that same picture again I would kill this person and I was rolling him in the grave. And I tried to see who he was I could never see his face but I talked to Jack about this problem I talked to my wife and I talked to my pastor. And they through cancel showed me that Satan had used some things in my life to deceive me where I thought that I had killed a person physically. But what I had done was emotionally divorced and to kill my father emotionally. And there is where the root was that I had so much un-forgiveness against my father that I had emotionally divorced myself and murdered him in my heart and that anger was just festering in there.
Sid: What did you do about that?
Doug: Well I confessed it as sin in my life and what I had to do and what we all have to do is we cannot not deal with the other person’s sin against us but our reaction to what they do many times become sin in our own lives. When I could deal with my sin I got relief to stop blaming someone else. It was always my wife’s fault for me getting angry I never get angry…
Sid: Jean I have to ask you this question Doug said you’re on your way and I understood what he meant by that meaning as humans we’re being more and more conformed into Messiah’s image. But you’re the wife you were about ready to leave him, what difference is there in your marriage now?
Jean: Oh all of the difference in the world that anger the root has been dealt with. Now that’s not saying that Doug doesn’t get angry anymore but when you deal with the roots and that’s one of the main nuggets of this teaching is that bad fruit bad root. So you may go for years thinking “I don’t have anything wrong with me but I had a good family but if there’s bad fruit in your life like anger and addictions then there’s a root.
Sid: Let’s talk a little bit about that on tomorrows broadcast.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth