SID: Hello. I’m Sid Roth. Welcome to my world where it’s natural supernatural. I’ll tell you, before we started the show, the presence of God has been so strong. This will be as life changing as any show that you have ever seen. It could not happen. It’s outrageous that it happened. Married 17 years, a pastor and his wife, high profile, television ministries, love each other. But the wife had an affair, a secret affair. And out of the tragedy they have come up with supernatural keys to not just have a marriage, but have a marriage made in Heaven, to not just have a family, but a family made in Heaven. Look, the Bible says that the believer is to provoke the Jew to jealousy. You will provoke everyone to jealousy when you have a marriage that God has put together and God has made supernatural. I am so excited about what you’re ready to hear, because I am angry. We are in an anything goes society and it’s getting apparently worse by the second. I’m overwhelmed at the statistics that Bob and Audrey Meisner have revealed to me. Tell me some of them, Bob.
BOB: It’s surprising. Where we used to live in a society of moral absolutes, those things are now being eroded away. Where for men, over the age of 40, they will have had a sexual affair, about 50 to 65 percent of men, and for women, it’s about 45 to 50 percent of women over the age of 40 will have had a sexual affair. It seems as though we are over-sexed in our society, over 25 percent of all searches on the Internet have to do with sexually related searches.
BOB: Pornography being that way. Also, for husband and wives, a husband does not know. Seventy percent will not know that his wife is sexually involved in an affair or they don’t know about their sexual activity, and about 50 percent of women don’t know what’s going on between themselves with regards to an affair.
SID: No wonder marriages are troubled throughout the whole world. No wonder. This really is a strategy against you. But I’m going to tell you something, it’s not an accident that you’re watching, and God is about ready to move supernaturally in your life. Audrey, it should not have happened, but it happened to you.
AUDREY: It should not have happened, but it happened to me.
SID: You love your husband. You have three children. You’re busy, busy, busy. And then that’s one of the keys.
AUDREY: I love my husband, I love my kids and I love Jesus, and I had known Jesus since I was a little girl. We were in a full time ministry in our entire lives. All we wanted to do was be world changers. And so 17 years into our marriage, some young guy starts coming to our church, and he starts paying attention to me and flirting with me, and I thought, we need to just get you a girlfriend. But something in my heart was feeling lack, and something just invited, I was 36, I had these three kids between 10, 12 and 15 years old. And part of me, it just feels good when he tells me I’m beautiful, oh that feels nice when he gives me a little attention, thinking that there’s no way that I was even capable of ever doing anything inappropriate. Never mind an affair, I didn’t think that could even happen. So what happened was, I said, I’m in control. This friendship can be no problem. I can go in the same car with him. I don’t have to have boundaries that other people have because I’m in control. So please know the spiritual pride here, you see, because pride doesn’t [unintelligible] when you don’t think you need God in a certain situation. And so I just gave into it, and I started being friends with this guy. We started having fun together. And what I didn’t realize is that sin will take you further than you ever dreamed it could go, and the other thing, is it’s never satisfying.
SID: The inevitable occurred.
AUDREY: Yes it did.
AUDREY: The friendship was this. It was just a short trip between a friendship and sexual affair.
SID: How long did it last?
AUDREY: The sexual affair lasted three weeks.
SID: Okay. Bob, when she confessed to you, what happened to you?
BOB: I found my bride of 17 years holding my feet and cry and confess into the sin of adultery. In my mind, what am I to do? Here I am a spiritual leader in our community, a pastor. In my mind I had no answers. Immediately, I began to create a rescue plan for my life. Immediately in my mind, I was leaving. And for this purpose for her to be exposed for what she did to me, immediately I took on the cloak or a garment of the victim. I’m the innocent one here. I wanted to gather everyone around me to be able to show what she did to me. I left that room not knowing what to do, and I called a friend of mine, a pastor friend of mine. And he said, “Bob, let’s talk this evening, later this evening.” He says, “Who knows?” I said, nobody. He said, “Good, let’s keep it that way.”
SID: That’s not what you were thinking.
BOB: No. I wanted everybody involved, because I’m the innocent one here, and this isn’t just a little mistake, you know, that okay, we’ll get over and through this. But that evening we talked on the telephone. And he began to speak to me the principle of covenant, and I wanted to expose. And he says, “But the Father’s heart is to cover.” Covering has two primary principles. Proverbs 25:2, it says, “It’s God’s glory to conceal a matter and for a king to discover its understanding.” To cover is to protect, and secondly, to promote healing. You see, when we come to God He doesn’t shame us, He doesn’t expose us, rather He gathers us in and He loves us and He covers us. But He doesn’t leave us there. He says, I want to heal you. You see, I want your past to determine your future. He says, I want my love and grace to determine your future. So he begins to speak to me of the Father’s heart, and he says, “Will you have that for your wife?”
SID: Okay. It got worse. Shortly thereafter, Audrey finds out she is pregnant. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s natural supernatural. I wouldn’t want it any other way. As you know, I’m a Jewish believer in Jesus. And when I first became a believer I wish it was different. But I really wasn’t mentored. I was almost on my own. And the only thing I really knew was the Bible. And so what did I do? I read the Bible. And then after reading the Bible I started looking at religion. I mean, and some people would say, God doesn’t heal today. And I’m thinking, what Bible were they reading. I don’t understand this. And some people would say, oh, God is my buddy. Yea God. I come from a Jewish background. God is holy. There’s a reverence. Yes, there’s an intimacy with Him. I saw no reverence for God. It was just strapping your seatbelt and go buddy. No. That’s not the God I read about in the Old and the New Testament. And then I heard, once you’re saved, no matter what happens you will always go to Heaven, and if something happens you really weren’t saved. That’s not what this book is saying. And it’s too late to tell me God doesn’t heal today. I’ve seen too many miracles. It’s too late to tell me God isn’t a holy God. He is a holy God. It’s too late for you to tell me that once I’m saved, nothing can ever stop me from being saved. It’s too late. But there is a spirit of delusion that is coming upon the church, and I want you warned, so it doesn’t touch you and it doesn’t touch your loved ones. That’s what we’re going to talk about today. Hello. Sid Roth here with Tony Kemp. And Tony is my friend. He’s a member of the board. He’s a student of the Word of God, a graduate of school theology. And Tony, you were telling me that in the great Azusa Street Revival, which happened early 1900’s, there was a prophecy, which appears to be talking about today, because it also is talking about Bible scripture. Tell me about it.
TONY: Well the apostle Paul wrote to Timothy in 1 Timothy, Chapter 4. And this is what he said, he said, “The Holy Spirit is speaking in unmistakable terms of the last days.” That in the last days, Sid, “Some shall depart from the faith”. He didn’t say that they would reject the faith. But Paul said that they would depart from the faith. In other words, they would gradually depart from the truth and the grace message of Jesus. And he also told Timothy in the second letter, that in the last part of the last days, “Some would not hold on to sound doctrine.” And so here’s the prophecy that happened in Azusa Street between 1909 and 1910. Here’s what the Word said: “It shall come to pass in the last days of the great Pentecostal movement three things are going to occur. One, the people will praise a God that they no longer pray to.” And remember, the apostle Paul said first prayers, supplications, intercessions then giving thanks, and praise and worship to the Father. The second thing he said in this prophecy is that the leaders, the ministers, the people would emphasize power instead of right living. And the third thing the prophecy said was people will emphasize the gifts of the spirit instead of the lordship of Jesus the Messiah. Now Sid, do we need praise and worship in the church? Yes. But every single one of us who are disciples of the Messiah need to have a prayer life. Do we need the power of the spirit and the demonstration of the spirit in the church? Absolutely. But we need to practice right living every single day. Do we need the gifts of the spirit and manifestations of the glory of God? Yes we do. But we need to do so in submission to the person of Jesus and in surrender to Jesus and in obedience to the lordship of Jesus the Messiah.
SID: Okay. Tell me. Give me a short definition of the biblical understanding of grace.
TONY: Well first of all, Paul said to Titus, he says, “The grace of God has appeared to all men bringing salvation.” At first, when I look at the grace of God I look at the goodness and the person of Jesus. But secondly after that, I see grace as divine influence. And this divine influence causes me, Sid, when I hear the truth of the Gospel to turn from sin, against sin and surrender my life to Jesus the Messiah. This true grace emphasizes to me the need to deny myself, take up the cross and obey Jesus everyday. In other words, true grace, Sid, produces a transformation of habits, character and life, and calls us to become more and more like Jesus as I develop intimacy with God through Jesus the Messiah.
SID: Okay. What is, and this is the word that God has given, what is counterfeit grace?
TONY: Counterfeit grace in a word is powerlessness. In other words, if I preach a message of counterfeit grace I say to you, come to the altar, receive Jesus as Lord and Savior and God loves you. But I don’t preach a message of personal deliverance, freedom, liberty, transformation of habits, character and life. I say to you, because God loves you, you can just stay in sin. But true grace says, God loves you and is going to save you from your sins, and change your life progressively and completely as you submit to Jesus the Messiah.
SID: You know, this counterfeit grace message goes so far as to say, because of what Jesus did at the cross that we don’t have to repent of sin any more once we get born again. And what about the teaching of once saved, always saved. I want to talk about that when we come back. Don’t go away.
Sid: I have my friend Hank Kunneman on the telephone because Hank I have to tell you this publically that your prophetic words have been the most accurate of anyone that I’ve ever interviewed. For instance I’m sure you remember this, but the last time I interviewed you prophesied I would have state of the art television equipment, my own studio and in fact those were your exact words that you stated, “You’re going to have your own studio and you talked about a number of other things and they have all come to pass.” But I am so concerned about this next election; because if God’s man does not get in I see terrific problems in the United States, actually I see problems if either man wins, but if God’s choice does not get in we’re going to have a mess. However, I have to put a caveat those that know their God whatever occurs are going to be victorious and they will walk in supernatural favor of God. And the scripture that I’ve been speaking about all this week is Haggai chapter 2 verse 9 and I see it, I feel it I taste it. “The glory of the latter house shall be greater than the former in this place I will give peace.” And the Hebrew word for peace is shalom which means; “In this place I will give completeness.” What is God showing you about this current election?
Hank: First of all you have to understand that where we’re at in this nation is we’re in a time of incredible spiritual warfare. And the reason why this warfare has come at this time in this nation around the time even leading up to the time of our election is because the enemy is trying to bring a confusion, a deception, he’s trying to mesmerize the people of this nation to bring them into confusion. Here’s why, because connected to this particular time with America and even Israel is the enemy wanting to bring forth what the Lord said in some previous prophecies that he gave me. He’s trying to raise up four horns of demonic power and these four horns are trying to come like in the days of Zachariah and those days they scattered Judah, Jerusalem and Israel but they’re trying to do the same to the United States. And bring four expressions of demonic power that has to do against the families, the marriages, the health, the economy and even concerning how we treat Israel. So it’s not just that we’re going into a booth, we’re actually contending with demonic powers that want to bring this nation into chaos.
Sid: You had a word in reference to the United States and Israel, tell me some of the words that God has shown you.
Hank: I think one of the key things right now, in fact when I was on your program a while ago I prophesied about how God wants to bring a friend of Israel from the White House. That is what the Lord’s desire is and we always have to remember that is what we have to contend for. What does God want, what is his desire, what is His will. And I remember that I had a vision and I think I shared it on one of your programs where the current administration wind came into the oval office spun the leader around through him back in his chair, he fell off his chair and when that happened the Israeli flag began to go back and forth and he would not grab the Israeli flag on a post to stabilize it. I believe that is a prophetic warning to this nation that we must have those any administration we must have those that will stand and bless Israel. If we don’t it’s going to release things upon this nation that the enemy would seek to devour us and bring us into confusion. Its’ interesting Sid because right now the Spirit of the Lord has awakened me in the middle of the night and He said things to me that the leader of Israel Netanyahu wrestled in his sleep like Jacob. And the reason this has happened because Israel the nation is wrestling. And God wants to make them and bless them like he did with Jacob. You see I understand why there’s so much warfare, this is not just a window for America it’s a window also for Israel. And as it goes with Israel it also goes with this nation and I think that’s where a lot of leaders have failed to understand the divine connection of both of them.
Sid: You know what I find interesting Hank, and you probably observe this, is when you look at the spelling of the word Jerusalem in the middle is USA. Our country has been historically the greatest friend of the Jew, we’ve had so much freedom as Jewish people in this country. More than any other counter in the world and has been a friend of Israel and Israel has been a friend of the United States. But what, what is going to happen if we turn?
Hank: I can tell you the key is Sid, is the enemy is recognizing he always recognizes for whatever reason spiritual and natural birthing and movement in the spirit. Before Israel the nation was birth, obviously there was a war and even Hitler was in power and it’s interesting because the devil and these ancient spirits are recognizing again that there is a birthing, a blessing, a movement you could say a spiritual movement, the glory of God the presence of God, the blessing of God is trying to emerge upon Israel and America. And the enemy really wants to bring us into war. What we have to also understand is as in the days before Israel the nation was birthed what the enemy tried to use to eliminate them God used to bless them. And so what I see and this is important because listen I’m under the conviction of this if God can come to a man named Abram, cut a covenant with him he was a pagan he worshipped the sun. If he could become covenanted with God, covenanted with His purpose guess what it did, it brought blessing to the nation. We have to look as we look upon America and the season that we’re in we have to look for those that are going to stand with Israel. Those that are going to cut covenant with God and it’s not an issue of pagan it’s the issue of can they connect to God and have their heart changed to do what Abraham did and that is to bring a blessing to the nation. See with the four horns of power in Zachariah and what the Lord prophesied what I shared earlier here on this broadcast there’s also four anointing. And the Lord has been speaking that He wants to bring four anointing upon this land that will affect marriage and family, affect the economy, bring health reform, and bring honor to Israel. We must contend for those anointing but here’s the problem Sid; we have a choice, we can be like Eutychus in Acts Chapter 20 who was sitting in a third story window, a window speaks of opportunity. It was the third story because it represents the Third Heaven where the throne is where we’re seated in heavenly places. We cannot fall asleep like Eutychus we must rise up across the earth and even in this nation; we must bless Israel, we must pray for Israel, we must pray for this demonic veil be removed from this nation so that they can clearly see what God wants. And I feel like it’s like this we’re in Acts 12; there was James the Apostle, a governing power that was beheaded and now the church get’s smart. Okay we’re having a situation in this governing power, we must pray because Peter was taken captive, we must not allow this nation of Israel to be taken captive by demonic spirits who want to confuse and really control and bring evil. The church in Acts 12 prayed and as a result there was a release of the right governing power. That’s what the Lord is trying to say to this nation. We must pray without ceasing so that the right alignment of leaders of governing power can come into manifestation.
Sid: Now you said something before we went on the air that I want you to repeat that God is going to give us the President we want, explain what you meant.
Hank: Here’s the thing, Saul is always in scripture the evidence that even though God may desire certain things, there is sometimes where the Lord will give the people what they want where it becomes the test of their heart. It becomes a revealing of the heart just like after the great victory over Pharaohs and his armies God had to take Israel to the waters of Morah it was a reflection to reveal their heart the water of bitterness. And what we cannot have happen in this nation is for us now have to face ourselves that we aren’t standing for moral, that we’re not standing for the sanctity of marriage, we’re not standing with Israel. The worst thing that we can have happen is that we go against what God wants and now be faced with ourselves.
Sid: And so we’re going to end up with this next election with either a Saul or a David and the choice is what do we want? What’s in our heart?
Hank: I’ve ministered to many leaders of nations, but it comes down to the will of the people especially in an election; God always reveals His prophetic truth through His prophets but the word of the Lord is conditional. What happens is the Lord prophesies His will, His intent, His desires, but the people have to go in and they have to choose.
Sid: Let me urge you, let me urge you to vote but vote according to God’s word, not to someone’s charisma; no matter what happens in this country you can walk in divine favor. And that’s why we created the brand new “Supernatural Mentoring Kit” where monthly we are going to disciple you so you can be all that God’s called you to be. No longer will you be sitting in the back of a church sitting on your hands. God is calling you front and center for the end time move of His Spirit.
Sid: My guest Kathie Walters is equipped so that you can be normal; Kathy I want you to teach our Mishpochah and demonstrate the Spirit, but before you do that tell me a bit about the honey angel.
Kathie: A few years ago I was home one Saturday which is not very often but if I’m ever home I lock myself in my house. So I got off I’m into sewing and I made a cup of tea came back and set up in bed so to wait on the Lord. Well, when I do that usually the fire of God comes really strong and this fire was falling on me. Then I heard footsteps across the kitchen which is in the next room and I thought “Well, I know there is no one in the house so it must be an angel.” The next minute this angel sitting on the side of my bed and he leaned over and he gave me a spoonful of honey. Now I tasted the honey and I smelled the honey and then he disappeared but he didn’t go away. So in my mind I thought honey, there’s so scriptures about honey you know and His words are like honey but it didn’t gel, that wasn’t it. And I sensed him still standing there and I said, “What’s this with the honey and He said, “Haven’t you never ever read about Jonathan when Jonathan ate the honey his eyes were enlightened.” So I looked that up in the scriptures in Samuel and I saw his army that was going through the forest and Jonathan was hungry and so he dipped his stick in the honey and the soldiers said, “Didn’t you know that Saul said “Were not to eat today?” And he said, “Didn’t you know that when I ate the honey my eyes were enlightened?” And so I said “Oh, thank you Lord.” And so for 2 ½ hours I was lifted up in the Spirit realm and I was totally in the spirit realm I saw the call of God come back to Wales and Ireland. A lot of people in the ministry seem to be in my room, they weren’t really but it seemed like that. The Lord gave me a lot of prophetic words but then he said, “I’m going to drop the honey on the Body.” So whenever I go I look for the honey revelation angel that opens the eyes. And so when I begin to smell the honey in my meetings you can usually smell the honey I know that revelation angel is present because he’s bringing revelation into the Body of who we are and what our inheritance is in the spirit realm. So… but the honey, everyone has to ask for the honey; everyone has to ask for the Spirit of Revelation because things have to get from your mind really into your spirit so that you’re able to receive everything that God has for you.
Sid: Why don’t we do that right now, I want everyone listening to say “Dear God in Jesus Name, I pray for the honey, I pray for the Spirit of Revelation. I don’t like it the way it is, I know that there’s more and I’m pushing for the more, I ask for the Spirit of Revelation, the Spirit of Honey in Yeshua’s Name.” Go ahead.
Kathie: The Glory of God has been coming on me stronger and stronger so I can hardly open eyes and you know it’s like this gold is coming on everything in the room, like a cloud coming on everything in the room, but it’s so golden and now I can’t open my eyes. (laughing)
Sid: Boy, that sounds wonderful to me, you sure provoke this Jew to jealousy.
Kathie: (Laughing) Well, I saw what happened people have to start believing it’s for me and start believing it’s for somebody else. Oh gosh help, I can’t… (Laughing)
Sid: What do you mean help?
Kathie: (Laughing) I can’t get up now, whoah (laughing)
Sid: What’s going on Kathie?
Kathie: I can’t get up!
Sid: What do you mean “You can’t get up?”
Kathie: I feel like someone’s sitting on me, maybe it’s my angel he does it sometimes. But anyway I just feel like you’re really on the right track. I’m getting such a witness in my spirit and like I said “The Glory of God’s coming into my room I can’t open my eyes actually.” It’s like bright, bright, lots of bright, bright light. (Laughing) I can see a man, it must be you I have never met you but I can see a man like and there are some doors that they look like, the look big and they look closed but they’re locked. You just suddenly got this strength and just like bust through these doors. And these doors flew open, there’s one pair of doors particularly that haven’t been opened and suddenly when you struck like your fist out it might be a real religious thing like you might get a break-through in there somewhere. I have angel sitting on my bed though.
Sid: There’s an angel, oh what’s the angel look like or do you just see the light of the angel?
Kathie: Oh, I saw he’s got like it looks like a book actually, (laughing)
Sid: Can you tell what he’s reading?
Kathie: No, I could say I couldn’t see he just smiled.
Sid: Can you see in the Spirit, is there an angel in my studio, I can’t I’ve not seen angels beyond one that I literally saw with my eyes.
Kathie: Yeah, see every God appointed church and ministry there’s angels appointed over that ministry. There’s a main angel appointed over your ministry and I tell you I do know that he is connected to the angel that’s over Gwen Shaw’s ministry. The angel that’s over her ministry is under the archangel Michael he’s over Jerusalem. So they’re connected those angels are connected. Your angels in that same kind of you know they have kind of like this spheres of angels that are connected over different countries and different places. So I think that there’s about three angels that operate in your ministry. I think that one is to do with evangelism and the other is to do like for the church. In a sense the church has to get evangelized too in the sense that they don’t have truth, as long as the church doesn’t have truth they have religious theology but it’s not the truth. It’s not setting anyone free. One of the angels has his hand over that area of ministry and the other one is more kind of like a direct evangelism for the unsaved so those angels do operate in that. I see one angel laughs at you, (laughing) sometimes.
Sid: I know my engineers laughing at me right now but… (laughing)
Kathie: He laughs at you sometimes he thinks your funny, (laughing)
Kathie: As that angel you know I’ve been in really religious meetings and everything, I’ve had angels come in and tickle me.
Sid: I’ve seen this happen to little children where angels tickle them.
Kathie: Yeah, it happens to me in a lot of meetings where there’s a lot of religion. It makes the religious spirit come to the surface really strong or either it goes or the people leave. Oh, praise God I can get up now.
Sid: Kathie, please pray for our Mishpochah right now to have the spiritual scales removed from our eyes so that we can be normal.
Kathie: Thank you Father God and I thank you that you have given, made available everything that we could ever possibly think of or made or want or desire. And Father I just pray for a real releasing today of the supernatural realm that Jesus purchased for us on that cross and by the Resurrection. Father I pray You’ll touch Your body and lift your body into the realms that you created them to live in Jesus mighty name, not just because it’s good and great but so that You’ll glory can come on us on Your kids Father and we’ll be a testimony to You. Thank you for that Spirit of revelation to come strong now of the people that are listening in Jesus Name. Amen praise God!
Sid: Well, I can feel that anointing and I believe this idea of going up in a chariot with the Lord up to Heaven. Very quickly would you pray that we have these experiences?
Kathie: See the chariots are around you all the time like the angels are around all the time so Father I just pray that you’ll open eyes by faith people start to receive their inheritance. So Father I pray that by faith people are about to see the angels, to see the chariots and accept those invitations to go in them. You love to show us what You’re doing Father and I just pray for release, a mighty release of the chariots. Thank you for the new angels that came into the earth a few months ago thousands and thousands that have never been in the earth before they are lift your Body into the realms they’re supposed to be in. So thank you Lord for those chariots and all those wonderful glorious things that you have for us. Amen, thank you.
Sid: So the Holy Spirit showed you that there was a release of new angels to bring us into these realms? Tell me a little about that.
Kathy: Yes, several months ago I was in New Zealand and a portal opened and I saw 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of 1000s of angels coming into the earth. And I found out afterwards the same thing happened in Australia, America, the UK, probably all kinds of places I never heard of, but the Lord told me that it was the fullest move of His Spirit was coming and these angels had not been on the earth before. And actually they started praying with people.
Sid: You know Kathy you are so provoking our Mishpochah to jealousy I want them to take that anointing home…
Sid: I have on the telephone right R.W. Shambach he certainly needs no introduction. At 81 years of age he tells me he just got back from Nigeria he went into a Moslem area of Nigeria and had meetings and how many Nigerians were born again at these meetings
R.W: One million four hundred thousand actual cards that were turned in.
Sid: So if I ask you if we’re in the last of the last days I don’t think I have to guess what your answer will be.
R.W: That’s exactly right.
Sid: And you told me that that what you did is you demonstrated the Kingdom of God and then it was easy for many of these Muslims to receive the Lord. What type of miracles did you see break out?
R.W: We saw blind eyes open, deaf ears unstopped, they brought them in on litters, cripples and they were totally healed just praying one prayer over an audience of 1 million people and they brought them down. They came down to testify on both sides of the platform had two lines and for about 45 minutes to an hour they were testifying as to what God did. Then I stopped and I said “Now this is not done in the Name of Mohammed, but this done in the Name of Jesus there’s no other Name under Heaven whereby man must be saved but the Name of Jesus.” And these miracles are wrought in Jesus Name and when they saw the miracles they want to come of Christ and that’s what turned them on.
Sid: You know R.W. one thing when I think about you I think about your mentor A.A. Allen and there is literally we know throughout history Elijah and Elisha a transfer of anointing. There was one miracle that you saw that this man demonstrate where I believe that the Glory of God came in. And he had like a vision and there was a young boy that had how many diseases? Twenty-six major diseases and I’ll never forget this.
R.W: This little woman came in from Knoxville, Tennessee and we had the meeting in Birmingham, Alabama and this little woman came and she brought that little baby and she said, “Brother Shambach I need a special miracle for this boy; doctors told me when he was born he wouldn’t live to see his 1st Birthday,” And here he is 5 years of age as she brings the child. Some of the diseases he was born blind, deaf, mute, his tongue hanged out of his mouth, his arms and his legs were like rubber, no bones, no male organs, and no feet. That’s why the doctors said he’ll never live to see his 1st Birthday. When she told me he was 5 years of age now I said, “God must have been holding this off so that He could perform the miracle.” And we gave her the card and she stayed for a week. It was back in the days when people used to stay in the hotel and they would eat out and this little woman spent all she had, she spent a week and Brother Allen never called the card and she came to me on the last day that she was going to be there and she said, “Brother Shambach I have $20 left that’s all I have” and she said, “Five dollars of that is for gas and that’s when gas was only about 20 cents a gallon.
Sid: Oh take me back to those good old days. (Laughing)
R.W: Fifteen dollars was for the doctors she had an appointment when she got back. She wanted Brother Allen to pray for the boy before she left and I know that and she said, “Will he call my card tonight?” I said, “I don’t know, he’s lead by the Spirit of God in everything that he does but I will promise you one thing that if he does not call your card I will take your child personally to Brother Allen’s trailer and I’ll make sure that he prays for your child.” She said, “You’ll do that?” I said, “I’ll do it.” Brother Allen I introduced him and he bounced out on the platform and he said before I preach I’m going to receive the offering and he said, “Tonight I want you to give a faith offering.” I never heard him say this before, he said “I want you to give something that you cannot afford to give.” And this little woman who had that little baby I watched her in the back take that little baby and put it in the arms of another woman and she came running down to where the bucket was and she threw something in the bucket and I leaped of the platform and I got down there and I saw in that bucket a $20 bill. Here she stood on the side of the platform and Brother Allen called the prayer line but he said before he started to pray he said, “I got a vision.” He said, “I’m being carried away in the Spirit a big old white building.” He said, “It’s at hospital, I’m inside now and he said, “I hear a lot of babies crying and I see a lot of doctors about six doctors around one little baby that was born with 26 major diseases.” I finally came alive I said, ”Oh, tonight’s the baby’s night.” And here when he said that he said to the woman he said, “The doctors said he won’t live to see his 1st Birthday but they’re wrong, your under this tent tonight and I want you to bring me the child and God’s going to give you 26 miracles.” And she brought the baby and he carried the little baby in his arms and pranced across the platform and I was standing by his side. The mother was standing over the side of the platform with her hands raised and tears coming out of her eyes down her cheeks and he said, “I want everybody to stand with me” he said, “Now I want you to close your eyes.” And I said, “I ain’t closing my eyes, I’ve been waiting for this and I want to see this.” I waited for a week and that little child the first thing I saw was those blind eyes a milky color eyes you didn’t know what color they were, they turned into whirlpools and before long I saw two beautiful brown eyes. Arms and legs no bones in them like rubber when all of a sudden that little boy began to move the arms. He was born without male organs and no feet and I saw God perform 26 miracles. I can’t doubt God I’ve seen Him do to too much, after he got done praying he put the baby down on those legs and he could not see, never saw his momma but she’s over on the side of platform and he started to run on those brand new legs, band new feet and I’m right on his tail end I’m running after him. And he leaped into his momma’s arms and I heard him say his first words, “Momma.”
Sid: But to see it with your very eyes your faith level must be so high I believe that if you pray for people the same anointing that was on A.A. Allen, the same anointing that rests on you and even greater will rest on those whose hearts are open if you’ll pray for them right now.
R.W: Father let that same anointing rest upon Brother Sid Roth I believe you kept him alive for this he’s doing one of the greatest works preaching to those precious Jewish people getting saved and delivered and set free. Let that anointing come upon him and use him in a special way for this last day revival of signs, and wonders and miracles in Jesus Name. You’re going to raise up and army of believers I believe this. One man can’t do it but you said “These signs shall follow them that believe.” And I pray for everyone that’s listening today that you will give them a special anointing and impartation of Your power so that they can go out and do the works of Christ. Jesus you said, “The works that I do shall you do also but not only these works but greater works shall you do because I go to My Father.” Thank you Lord for keeping us alive for the greater works time and I pray for everyone listening to this program today give them a double portion of that anointing in Jesus Name. Amen.
Sid: Mishpochah all this week the Glory of God has been so awesome.
Sid: Oh my goodness you know what whenever I get around people that are in the Glory, and my guest is in the Glory, words of knowledge start hitting me. I mean it’s like when you’re in God’s Glory it’s easy when you’re not in an open heaven it’s difficult, but just as I started speaking God told me that there are people whose backs are being healed right now. In fact I see a spine and it’s being straightened right in Yeshua’s Name. There’s some people that and I don’t know the medical terms but the soft part in between the bones that’s being just replaced right now in Yeshua’s Name, in Jesus Name. My guest David Herzog; I’m speaking to him at his home in Sedona, Arizona and David you told me two interesting things about Sedona. The first thing you told me it was a joke, but unfortunately it was true. There are more channels than television sets in Sedona and what you meant was channeler’s that’s New Age capitol isn’t it?
David: Yeah, they like to think it is.
Sid: But you told me you know something better about Sedona; you told me about in fact you talk about it in your brand new book “The Glory Invasion” that there are special portals all over the earth in which God has opened Heavens and what did you tell me about Sedona?
David: It’s an open Heaven portal town which means its destiny is to be the open portal where people come and want to worship God. And amazing that people come from all around the world and they come to try to find energy to try to worship something everybody’s worshipping something. So there’s a destiny for worship just like Jerusalem in a sense on Sedona.
Sid: So the devil knowing this goes after the areas that God has destined to be open Heavens.
David: Yeah, the beautiful places on the earth, Sedona was the most beautiful town in the U.S.A. according to USA Today in 2003. So you come here and you actually sense “Man God is all over this place, it’s so beautiful and it’s strikingly beautiful and the presence that’s here.” So what a lot of people do is they just want to ride off of that to maybe get to a second Heaven but not to God.
Sid: And a lot of people don’t know the difference between the Second Heaven and the Third Heaven and they actually think the Second Heaven is the Third Heaven. But the second Heaven is the area that the devil and his demons inhabit, the Third Heaven is where God is. You know I almost believe we don’t even have to knock what they’re doing we can just tell them about the wonders of God and how they’re just missing it. As opposed to evil it’s just like “Why would they want the counterfeit when they can have the real thing?”
David: Exactly and a lot of churches let them down and that’s why they’ve gone to the New Age; they’ve gone in churches and there’s no power, there’s no miracle, there’s no love, they’re no healings it’s just dead dry boring religion. So in a way it’s the churches fault so they’ve gone into New Age well, I’ll get it somewhere else.
Sid: When I think about you David and your wife Stefanie I think about two people that are desperately in love with God, so hungry for the things of the Spirit, but in particular what you emphasize and your latest book which is literally just off the press is called “Glory Invasion.” For starters what is Glory and how did you get so fascinated by this subject?
David: The Glory of God I knew what the power was before, I knew what the anointing was, I knew what healing was, I knew what…but when I tapped into the Glory of God I realized I didn’t know what it was until I experienced it. The anointing the way I explain it is trapped inside your physical body in a way like you have to pray or stir up the anointing many times when you’re praying for somebody you’re pressing in to get a word, you’re laying hands on people. They’re different things you do to stir up the anointing and the anointing a lot of times after you’ve ministered in the anointing you feel tired or worn out and you have to replenish it. Kind of like a laptop computer once you unplug it you can go for a couple of hours but then you got to replenish. But the Glory is not necessarily coming from the inside of you it’s coming from outside of you from the Open Heaven. So you’re operating from a Glory that’s outside it’s like Acts 2 they went out and ministered, but Acts 4 it said “Lord stretch out your hand to heal, that they’re shadow was healing the sick.” So it’s a different your not exhausted necessarily from ministering in the Glory it’s happening like the cloud of Glory around you, it’s not necessarily coming from inside of you which is a great thing.
Sid: Now the title of your new book is called “Glory Invasion” and by the very title you can see where you’re headed; do you believe that we’re either having or going to have a fresh visitation of God on planet earth?
David: Oh, I really believe that it’s already happening and God’s starting to just invade believers, nonbelievers, cities, even areas on the earth that you would never think that would never be open with the Glory of God just invading governments and people and demonic powers. And it’s no longer Lord just give me a little touch of your Glory, God’s Glory wants to invade every area.
Sid: Well David and I just got back from a meeting he invited me, he put up a gigantic tent at Miracle Valley, Arizona which is where A.A. Allen had his famous Tabernacle that so many miracles happened there. And David I was so pleased that David invited me to be one of the speakers. Where I’ve interviewed David before, I’ve had him on television and on radio I had never seen some of the things that I saw with my very eyes take place at these meetings. But you know David some of the things that I saw the old timers said, “Well, that’s nothing new that’s been – that went on in A.A. Allen’s ministry at the Tabernacle.” For instance I saw with my very eyes someone’s hair that was all grey and about 1/3 of it became brown, I mean I understand you’ve seen this a lot and I’ve heard of it, but I’ve never seen that happen and then I went up to speak to this woman because I guess the reporter side of me took over. And she said to me that each day it’s getting more brown. Now has this happened much?
David: Yeah, we’ve seen that a lot since about 1999 since we started experiencing the Glory these are some of things we’ve started to see the unusual miracles that the Bibles talks about miracles and there’s the unusual miracles.
Sid: Speaking about unusual miracles I saw a man that he lost so much weight he had to hold his pants up; the next night he came to the meeting he had taken his pants in and guess what happened he lost instant supernatural weight again and his pants were falling down. I mean really, I mean I’m glad he had hold of his pants he lost so much weight. How about that does that unusual sign happen often?
David: Yeah, we see that a lot practically every weekend, pretty much I’d say pretty much every single week when we’re ministering somewhere at least someone’s getting instant weight loss.
Sid: Okay, if I’m understanding you right we understand the anointing we understand that comes from within, but there is like… could you call it just God showing up; the angels of His presence showing up and that’s when the Glory comes? What’s going on to the best of your understanding?
David: Well, when the Glory comes yeah all of Heaven comes. Like when a President comes he’s got bodyguards and entourage, when the Glory comes He’s surrounded by hosts of angels and miracle angels and there’s all kinds of things happening when you operate in the Glory. You’re getting all of Heaven at your disposal; when you’re just operating in the anointing it’s still Biblical and it’s good, but you almost feel like you’re alone in it sometimes.
Sid: Do you see difference in results when you minister under the Glory versus ministering under the anointing?
David: Oh, major, major, major difference; under the anointing only if I’m in a big crusade somewhere I can minister 1 on 1 you know to some people but when the Glory starts coming down I can see 1000s of people instantly healed in a couple of seconds. Because there’s 1000s of angels doing the work; Lord stretch out your hand to heal. I can stretch out my hand and He’ll bless it and He’ll heal but if I say “Lord stretch out your hand when the Glory comes I’m almost like a spectator just watching it feels like sometimes.”
Sid: David, maybe you know this maybe you don’t but I was sitting at the camp meeting when I wasn’t speaking I was listening to you you were one of the other speakers and just minding my own business and all of a sudden someone poured water on my head. And I turned around and there was no one that was close enough to have poured so much water. So the next thing I did I took my hand and I rubbed it through my hair and it wasn’t wet. I’m thinking what is going…and then I smelled the most beautiful perfume so I nudged the guy next to me and I said, “You know I just had water poured on me.” And he said, “I just had water poured on me,” and then the guy next to him said the same thing and they all smelled the perfume. What was going on?
David: Well, that night that was the cloud of Glory that came into the room; the Bibles talks about the cloud of Glory and I was seeing, and a lot of people were looking when you turned around we could see literally a white mist coming into the building. I have a bunch of pictures on it of it and you see just 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of 1000s of little round white angelic beings or lights, I don’t know how to explain it.
Sid: It was so beautiful we got a picture of it in fact it’s going to be on our next news letter.
David: Oh, praise the Lord.
Sid: And by the way if you’re saying to yourself “I would sure like to know how to minister under the Glory; I just want to be in the presence of the Glory.” That’s why David wrote his new book “Glory Invasion.” And I have David speaking the first night of my “One New Man Conference.” That’s going to be at the old PTL grounds. Rick Joyner has purchased it and renovated the hotel. The meeting starts August 23rd and we got a whole slew of people we’re going to impart. I believe it’s the birth of the One New Man on planet earth. Yes, it’s started but it’s the birth, it’s the greatest ingredients some of the most anointed of my friends that you’ve heard on radio or seen on TV are going to be there. If you would like the brochure please call our 800 number or write and we’ll send you the brochure. It’s limited seating it’s only a 1,000 and you can stay right in the hotel and the meals are there, so if you want information write for the brochure. David in your heart why did you write this book “The Glory Invasion?”
David: Well, basically every time I write a book it’s God telling me to write it, He told me to write this book oh about three years ago and I started writing and then I just put it off because I got busy. I had so many different people come up to me prophetic people who I had dreams and I had the Lord “You got to finish this book you got to finish this book.” And finally last year oh I think it was the month of May the Lord said, “You’ve got to write it right…you’ve got about three weeks to finish it do it now.”
Sid: We’re out of time right now.
Sid:I have on the telephone a man that has one of the missing ingredients, his name is Al Houghton and I’m speaking to him at his home in Anaheim, California. Al has a new… I’ll call it a new old paradigm.You see the first church understood this but over the centuries we’ve lost what the first church had in a lot of areas. And I believe Al has touched a necessary ingredient that has been hidden for so long to Christians that will literally turn the history of the United States of America from going downhill to being the country that God created it to be. Now Al tell me a bit about yourself, how did you, and I know that God works with us as individuals and you’re a prophetic type of person. How did you even come into understanding this ancient understanding of the first church?
Al:Well Sid I started out as an ex-military type who God got a hold of and said, “I want you to go into ministry instead of being an airline pilot.” And I said, “Oh no,” so I had to give up one career and pick up another and so the faith movement for me or the what’s called the word of faith, the promises of God if you put them into your mouth confession brings possession was a natural message in my early days. And I got a hold of that and I pushed that for 7 years.Then the Lord spoke to me, I still remember where I was, when God comes upon you it’s like His thumbprint can touch you and he just turns your whole direction. And he said to me the year was 1983 in Lancaster, California.He said, “Abraham was a father of them that believe and he didn’t know any of that stuff you’re preaching.” And I thought “Oh my God he just wiped out 7 years of ministry and five hundred messages.” I went back to find out how Abraham used his faith and he didn’t use his faith just to get everything he wanted, he didn’t call for pleasure, he didn’t call for all these different things that we’re teaching and allowing people to do today in the application of their faith. He had to use his faith on his flesh to obey God and come against his very culture.It was unthinkable to leave your patriarchal father and go your own way but that’s what Abraham, God called Abraham to do. And so it was through God’s intervention that I began to look at the scripture in a whole new way, plus I discovered that Jesus was not only Savior, healer, baptizer in the Holy Spirit, deliverer, but He was also Judge. And I had taught people for seven years and never said anything about Jesus the Judge.
Sid:Alright, help me to understand something, I believe that it is Biblical and it is scriptural to meditate on God’s word day and night, to speak God’s word out loud in the Name of Jesus, especially the promises and have things change before your very eyes. That is Biblical, what is the missing ingredient from that message that you were giving previous to that word from God?
Al:The missing ingredient was in the way I was preaching it I never brought, what I would call the serving God serving others mode, and I allowed people to use their faith and all the promises for anything they wanted to satisfy their flesh verses serving God’s purpose and serving others. Now Jesus called that denying yourself and taking up the cross and follow Me; it’s simply the issue of who am I living for, am I living for me or am I living for family, am I living to serve others…
Sid: But isn’t that what Jesus said the most important commandments were to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself?
Al: Yes, He certainly did but He also had a plan for service where we lay our life down for Him and He said, “Seek ye first the kingdom then all these things will be added unto you.” I taught people how to get the “things” and they went out to get the “things” and they missed the kingdom, and they missed the servant side.
Sid:Is it possible to get the “things” and to miss the Kingdom and miss the servant side?
Al: It is very possible to do Sid.
Sid:That’s kind of scary.
Al: Well, it was scary to me.If God had not intervened sovereignly and supernaturally I would have gone a way of so many others; building this building that for me versus the issue of using my faith for God’s purposes. Any minister today in America has a choice, we can use our faith to extract from God’s people a level of living we want, or if we go the service route we can use our faith to lift them into a whole different dimension in Christ where they can change the course of history of nations and cities. And that’s the call that God has right now and it’s also in the covenant of sure mercy.
Sid: How did you find out about how this covenant of sure mercies operates; how did God lead you this way?
Al: Well, the Lord spoke to me… the impression you get in your spirit all of sudden a strong impression to do something and it hits your mind and you think “I have to do that.” Now when that happens to me I believe that’s God speaking, I had this strong impression that I had to go study covenant and it came actually in Stuttgart, Germany in 1998 with this question “When did I speak to my servant David about his son Solomon before or after he met Bathsheba?” And I thought “I don’t know.” And then the impression came go find out. Well, it was four chapters before, four chapters before the greatest failure of David’s life God gave him a covenant of sure mercy in 2nd Samuel 7:15 it’s the essence of it.It says “I will not take my mercy from you as I took it from Saul who was before you.” Now I thought “Well, how did God take His mercy from Saul?” So I went back to 1st Samuel 15 where Saul had a failure militarily he refused to execute God’s judgment on a city, on everyone and he lost his office, he lost his call, he lost the anointing of the Holy Spirit to walk in the office and fulfill the call, three things. So when David had his major failure, then those were the first three things he stands on in Psalm 51.Then the Lord said, “Now look what I did for David, I redeemed his failure and made it the platform for his ultimate success.” What he wanted to do was build God a house and this had to tweak every Pharisee in Israel because the son of David and Bathsheba a relationship that started in murder and adultery. God redeemed through the covenant of sure mercy and after David’s repentance and brought out of it the wisest man who ever lived; who built a temple of mercy that promised any time the Jewish people found themselves in captivity if they would turn towards Jerusalem and toward that temple and repent God would hear, see answer and restore them. He would remember His covenant of sure mercy.
Sid:Briefly what does that covenant of sure mercy mean to the 21st century Christian?
Al: It means two things Sid, it is the answer to the promise of Psalm 149:6, 7, 8 and 9. “Let the high praise of God be in their mouth and a two edged sword in their hand.”A two edged sword. Edge number one is two cut away all shame, and guilt when repentance or when failure comes and people turn and they acknowledge their sin then God promises if we repent that he will cut away all the sham, he will cut away all the guilt and through forgiveness He will bring us into justification, righteousness of redemption. Actually he did for David because he said “He made him a witness to the people,”He will make that sin become a platform for our future ministry and calling and fulfilling our impact in the earth.
Sid:Now what is the 2nd thing?
Al: The second edge of the sword and that’s the edge that has been lost to the New Testament Church in our day. I mean they had it in the book of Acts but we don’t have it today and that is “The authority to what I would say go judicial, what I would call going Judicial.That’s when you evoke the covenant of sheer mercy you bring a person or situation into the judgment seat of Christ. For example, God kept saying to me “You know David, You don’t know David.” I said, “What do you mean I don’t know David I’ve studied David for years, what are you talking about, I don’t know David?” I went back to look at how David used his covenant of sheer mercy.
Sid:I’ll tell you what, they’re going to read your brand new book literally right off the press called “The Sure mercies of David, this will give you such confidence before God literally change the destiny of yourself, you family and your nation.
Sid: Red hot is kind of an understatement for my guest Pastor Steve Hill, he’s Senior Pastor of Heartland World Ministries Church in Dallas, Texas. Steve is best known as the man that happened to be on Father’s Day 1995 at the Brownsville Church in Pensacola, Florida. And history says close to 500,000 if not more have made professions of faith, people thousands healed and delivered and gotten their first love back for God. I know I went a number of times to those services. But Steve you bumped into a precise destiny of God for your life, for the other people on the staffs’ life, and for that churches life at that moment. But what I’m interested in is what God did with you to get you to that point. You’re a raging, abusive drug addict, totally out of control; a praying mom prays you into the Kingdom, and you met your wife pretty interesting way. You go knocking on doors; she’s unsaved and did she really slam the door in your face?
Steve: Actually Sid she slammed the door on another pastors face but you got the right story; and for two years tried to get her saved and she wanted nothing to do with God. My wife was born out of a rape and she was bitter, she was hateful, she was just in a mess. And for anyone out there that you’ve come from an abusive family I got good news for you God has a special plan for your life. And God touched her healed her set her free and now she ministers alongside her husband Steve, and we were at the revival together, we’ve ministered in Argentina, Russia, Spain.
Sid: Let me take you back to Argentina because when I think about revival in this generation, when I think about miracles, when I think about salvation I think about Argentina. We’re you there during the time that this great outpouring occurred?
Steve: Absolutely, we were once again you stumble in some of the right places and I feel like Argentina was one of those places. We first arrived in 1984 then moved there in 1986 and stayed there until 1992. So we were there during the peak of the Argentine revival. And Sid you couldn’t have enough programs to cover what we saw. I know I can already tell just by hearing you you’re very familiar with the move of God there. Signs and wonders abounding, miracles beyond; let me share just one thing.
Sid: You just preempted my question but go ahead, that’s what I wanted to find out, tell me something you saw there.
Steve: In 1984 when I first arrived there I go to a meeting and a man by the name of Carlos Annacondia is preaching this meeting and then he starts praying for the sick to be healed. And there’s four men dressed in suits and they look like they’re all professional, and they’re not on the platform but they’re behind the platform. There’s 25,000 people in this open air meeting and this was before I learned Spanish, I’ve fluent now, but I turned to my interpreter and I said, “Who are these guys because they look strange they weren’t worshipping God they were just standing there?” And so we asked them the question and said “Who are you? And they said, “We are all dentists and we have come.” I asked them “What are they doing there?” They said, “We have come to see God’s handy work.” Because one of the miracles that took place constantly in that revival was the miracle of healed teeth, God working miracles in the teeth because in that nation there was lot of dental problems and they knew they were meeting patients where their mouths had been healed by the power of God.
Sid: So all these dentists came, what did they see?
Steve: They were as I said, they were not doubters. They were all astounded and they were just coming to see once again, it’s obviously they had already been there before they wanted to see once again. Now these not Christians dentists, these were just people that could not deny the power of God and that’s one of the reasons I love miracles.
Sid: Now tell me about what type of things were healed in the mouth you said teeth, were at that time were people getting gold teeth?
Steve: The greatest miracle that I saw with my own eyes was the fillings okay, the people that had just cavities in their teeth were being filled with this supernatural metal. And you know after awhile you know somebody came up to me the other day Sid and they said, “How come you believe so much in miracles?” Well, after awhile when you’ve seen so much how can you not believe, I’ve seen too much.
Sid: But you know what when you see too much it’s a contagious disease you catch it, but what most Christians in this generation in the United States of America and Canada have seen is the opposite and that’s nothing going on even in churches that preach a lot about it. And so their unbelief has been contagious to them. How can they make the switch?
Steve: By listening to your program.
Sid: Well, I know that but I want them to read your book. You’ve got to have so many keys from all that you’ve observed in walking in the miraculous.
Steve: Listen Sid, get the book they need to order the book from your ministry “Operating in the Miraculous.” Let me just share one thing here with you I talk about and with your listeners why God performs miracles. The six keys just, I mean if you got this book and cut out page 61 to 95 where you get just the six keys to operating in the miraculous about the authority of the believer, anticipating the miracle, these are all “A” words. The atmosphere, listen to this Sid how to articulate a miracle prayer, what to say because some people stumble all over the place and by the time they’re finished talking they never ever act it out as if there was going to be a miracle taking place.
Sid: Okay, tell me some other miracles that you saw in Argentina because I mean I heard stories that the presence of God was so strong that unsaved people would hear about what was going on on the radio, jump in taxis and go to a church to get saved. Now to me that’s normal. When are we going to normal in the United States in North America?
Steve: Well, you know that’s a good question because you know Argentina it’s a… you know Argentina they would say they are not a third world country, Argentines are very European and so we spent a lot of time in Buenos Aires which is a city of 10 million people. And it’s the Paris of South America and why is it America that in the Paris of South America God moves constantly mighty powerful sweeping Spirit of God. People get out of wheelchairs; these are things that I saw on a normal day people walking that wouldn’t walk. When I first arrived there you start praying for people and you know you’re praying these North American prayers you know “Jesus heal them in the Name of Jesus.” And in North America so many people have so much doubt and then I touch this one woman and I say “Lord touch her in Jesus name heal her,” and then I moved on to the next. And then she starts screaming, she starts screaming “Jovel, jovel, I can see, I can see,”and then her daughter said, “My mom, this is my mom she just opened her eyes, she was blind.”
Sid: We have in America a cerebral gospel and praise God for it because a lot of people do get saved but what would happen, that was never God’s plan A. What would happen if we had a plan A gospel a demonstration of God’s Kingdom rather than a history lesson?
Steve: Well, that’s where I live Steve and I think that’s where your audience really wants to live is in the “These signs shall follow them.” And you know Paul said to the church of Corinth you know that was one messed up church. And he said to them “I don’t come to you with eloquence of speech, I don’t come to you with this great oratorical ability; yeah I’m a good speaker but I come to you with a demonstration of power and that’s why so many people are drawn to revival services, miracles. Here in Dallas, Fort Worth people come from all over because there are miracles; people are not only saved but their healed they’re healed there are signs and wonders.
Sid: Now listen you don’t have a secret sensitive church you have a God sensitive church. But some would say the only churches that can boom today are the seeker sensitive. How many did you start with how many years ago and how many do you have now?
Steve: We’re a baby church, we’re just in diapers we started three and a half years ago with forty people we have 2,000 now and you know, and no telling where this thing is going to go. But we preach the blood, we preach cross; we preach that you got to get saved. You know a lot of pastors and I know we’re not going to spend much time on this but I got to say it you know a lot of pastors are afraid to speak strongly in their churches because they feel like they are going to offend people.
Sid: Not only that, what I see Steve is a lot of Pentecostal Charismatic Churches today even though they don’t say they’re seeker sensitive they down play speaking in tongues and literally a lot of supernatural phenomena to the point where there isn’t a whole lot of difference between Spirit filled and evangelical today.
Steve: Well, you’ve got your finger on the pulse Sid and that’s exactly what’s going on and I would encourage any Charismatic Pastors that are listening, Pentecostal pastors you know let me ask you a question sir, mam “When was the last time there was a message in tongues?” Do you allow your people to speak in tongues in church, do you pastor speak in tongues in church? The answer to that all three of those is yes for my church. Do we run around babbling all day long in tongues? No, but people during times of worship, there’s times I get up on the platform and I’ll speak in tongues, my worship ministers speaking in tongues and we have Baptist, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, we got all kinds of folks in the church. If they’re going to get offended let them get offended, this is God.
Sid: Listen all you need to do is demonstrations with people of all kinds of diseases like hepatitis where there is no known cure instantly healed under the power of God and it doesn’t matter what you do or say, people are going to flock.
Steve: Now Sid, you’re meddling with my life because I’ve been healed of hepatitis.
Sid: I know that, we’ll talk about it on tomorrows broadcast.
Sid: I’ve got Gary Wood on the telephone and Gary has been to Heaven. He wrote a book called “A Place Called Heaven” and some of the things that you observed Gary are so phenomenal. I have read your book your book, I have heard your testimony but I cannot read your book enough I cannot hear your testimony enough and you told me something I wasn’t even aware of that Jesus said to you that everyone that reads your book would be healed, delivered, set free; what about the people that read it that aren’t healed or delivered?
Gary: Well, I believe they’ll have the choice and the opportunity to be that because that’s what the Lord promised me and that’s what we’re hearing the reports that are coming back to us of people that have impossible situations suddenly become possible.
Sid: Tell me about my favorite room in Heaven, the parts room.
Gary: You this is a…
Sid: Maybe that could be my mansion, I wouldn’t mind having that as my mansion but to ahead. (Laughing)
Gary: Yes, it’s one of my favorite parts of the whole experience, after I came out of the throne room of God and about 500 yards from the throne room of God is this spare parts room with a sign on the outside of the door that says, “Unclaimed Blessings.” And I remember walking up there and walking in and there were legs hanging on the wall, there were every part of ones anatomy there in that room. And people always say to me “Well, why would there need to be a room like that? Because God has a spare parts room, God has a miracle room, Sid let me tell you an incredible story that just happened that opened the door for me to go to the Philippines to preach a city wide crusade. There was man named “Abdul a Moslem man who was dying of incurable cancer of the stomach, he cried out with all of his heart for Allah to save him nothing happened. So he cried out with much intensity “Devil, if you’ll save me and heal me I’ll serve you all the days of my life,” nothing happened. And so he went he went to sleep and he had like a vision and Jesus appeared to him, he knew it was Jesus and Jesus revealed Himself to him and Jesus said to him, “I want to take you and show you something,” And he took him and took him to a spare part room in heaven and showed him and said “Now this was available for you if you would have just trusted and received me.” He woke up in the hospital screaming to the top of his lungs in a Moslem hospital, “Jesus I received you, I receive you Jesus, I receive you.” Well, they restrained him, but he became an evangelist and I’ve had the opportunity to meet him and that’s what opened the door for me to go to the Philippines. Now here’s a man clear across the world who verifies he doesn’t speak English, I don’t speak his native tongue and he verifies and saw the exact same thing I saw when I was there in heaven, the spare part room and it’s available…
Sid: What did you see with your eyes in the spare parts room?
Gary: I saw every part, I saw hands, I saw arms, I saw legs, I saw every part, every organ or your body and it’s available now. And I watched as people on earth would pray and the prayers would go up, the angels would receive the prayers, they would go to the spare part room and get that specific miracle whatever it was. New part for the ears, a new part for the spinal column, a new kidney, whatever it was and then they would go but many times those angels would have to fight the principalities and powers. And you remember the story people that read the Bible know the story about Daniel and he had to wait twenty-one days but the moment Daniel prayed that angel left heaven and was on it’s way but it got hindered and so there’s things in the spirit realm that will hinder our prayers but you got to keep on standing, keep of confessing and believing. And Sid I saw the angels come and start to give a miracle to people and here’s what I heard people say “Well, it just must not be for today, it must not be that God wants to heal me.”
Sid: And you know most people that believe in healing believe God heals but when it comes to themselves that’s what the mantra is inside of their mind going over and over again, “I know God heals but for some reason He doesn’t heal me,” what would you say to them?
Gary: Well, I would say actually what Jesus said to me in heaven He said, “Gary tell My people don’t even begin to accept or buy into the condemnation of the devil that they are unworthy he said tell them that they are worthy because I’ve redeemed them by the blood of the Lamb.” And God wants to give you a miracle; He’s in the miracle working business.” I can tell you a story a true story of where I was asked to go pray for a lady in Dallas, Texas. I walked into the hospital room; she was sitting on the edge of the bed completely bald, no hair. The Bible says the crowning glory of the woman is her hair, this woman had no hair. I had been asked to go to pray for her because she had cancer, well I start to pray for her and she’s waving a wig in the air laughing hysterically and she’s just laughing and she goes “Ha, ha, ha you dumb stupid devil, I’ll live and not die and decree and declare the works of the Lord.” Sid I thought I was on the physic ware, I thought I had just gotten in the wrong room.
Gary: So I walked out to check to be sure and I came back in and that lady taught me the most valuable lesson I have learned in forty-one years of public ministry. She looked at me and I told her I had been asked to pray for her and she said, “Son I don’t know who you are, I don’t know what you believe and I don’t know what you stand for.” And she said, “I don’t just allow anyone to pray for me, so you got to be careful who you let pray for you.” And I said, “Well, I died and I went to Heaven, I saw Jesus and He sent me back to make Him real to people in your condition.” She said, “You qualify,” so I prayed for her and I left the room with her laughter ringing in my ears.” Now just before I walked out of her room suddenly I was aware that there was another woman in the room I turned and looked at her and I said, “Maim I said, “I’m sorry I didn’t notice you here is there anything that I could help you with?” She said, “Yes,” she said, “Preacher the doctor just walked in and said, “My sister has less than 72 hours to live and whatever it is that’s causing her to laugh like she is I want some of it.” So I led her to Jesus, I walked out of the room, I came back a year later, this lady comes to my meeting, runs up and hugs me, and she said, “Don’t you remember me?” She has thick beautiful black hair.” I said, “Well, pardon me no maim, I said, “Where did we meet?” And she starts laughing Sid, (Ha-ha-ha). And I said, “Yeah, yeah, I remember, I remember” and she had literally laughed and doctors have even verified that healing hormones are released in your body. But I saw the spare parts and she grabbed a hold in faith even in the clutches of death and received her miracle.
Sid: Now I’m told that when people go to heaven someone they knew that made it to heaven greets them, who greeted you?
Gary: My best friend John that had died in horrible accident in high school that literally took his head off his body and we exchanged greetings and I knew him and which answers in my mind “Will we know one another in heaven?” And the scripture verifies it in Matthew 8:11 “Sitting down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” it says so I knew my friend and we’ll know our loved ones. You know there’s someone assigned to you when you cross over to the other side, to this place called heaven.
Sid: You were in this auto accident and you had all the damaged done to your body; when you came back you had a crushed larynx and that that’s really a intrigues me and you were told you would never speak and of course your passion was singing and you would never sing again. What happened to that crushed larynx?
Gary: Jesus walked into the hospital room and He literally came in while there was a song playing that said, “He Touched me” on the radio and I was listening to that song and Jesus just walked into my hospital room put his hand on my throat and I looked down at the those beautiful eyes and of His and He smiled at me and He walked out. And a little nurse walked in immediately afterwards to serve me a meal and I through my hands up and said, “Praise God I’ve been healed!” And I’ve been talking ever since.”
Sid: But they x-rayed you and they found your larynx is still crushed so how can you be speaking?
Gary: It’s a miracle, it’s a miracle, it’s the only way I can and it’s been verified by medical doctors.
Sid: Listen, in your book you have all the pictures of the accident, all the things that Jesus walked in and healed him. You can’t read enough about what heaven is like, how beautiful it is and this is one of the most graphic descriptions of what goes on in heaven, but not only that there’s a promise from Jesus for healing, for deliverance, to be set free when you read this book. But there’s a bonus and that is his daughter Angel. Angel should have been institutionalized, she should have never developed into the wonderful woman of God that she has. But because he understood from his visitation to heaven of how to pray Angel actually ministers with him and when you read Angel’s book which is called “Angel and Walking Miracle” you will have faith for the impossible.
Sid: Yeshua is getting ready to visit planet earth with the most awesome outpouring of God’s Spirit in history. And I have a concern and maybe you’ll understand my concern if I tell you this story. My wife was raised Southern Baptist; when she got to college she had atheist professors, she was totally unprepared for that onslaught; the church did not prepare her; her parents did not prepare her and left her at the mercy of her teachers who had a goal of making her an atheist. Well she had enough of a background to say “I won’t become an atheist, I’ll be come an agnostic just in case there’s a God.” And I met my wife, she converted to Orthodox Judaism because I insisted not so much that she wanted to be an Orthodox Jew, I insisted. So you might say she was a Southern Baptist, Agnostic, Orthodox Jew that did not know God. And then I had an encounter with Jesus and we started studying things from a Hebraic viewpoint of “Why is Jesus the Messiah?” She had never had any teaching like this, what are the prophecies proving Jesus is the Messiah; what are the prophecies about Israel? She came to the point where she literally said to herself, “The evidence is so overwhelming, I must believe in God, I must believe that Jesus is my Messiah, I must make Him my Lord.” Well, I wish every high school student and every college student in the world would get a hold of Jim Nienhuis’ book “Old Earth, Why Not?” Because the truth of the matter is I’ve been wrestling with how old is the earth; I read what the Bible says, I read what scientists say, and then I can come up with the only conclusion I can come up with is maybe a day wasn’t 24 hours back then. I don’t understand it I accept what God says, but I really can’t prove it to anyone else. Then my friend James Nienhuis came with this book and it answers questions that I never could answer. I accepted it by faith, but you know what, I believe that the devil is coming with such an onslaught to take away and rob our young people of their faith; especially within the educational system that God has raised up such a man and such a book. And Jim there is so many fabulous themes in your book that many Christians have thought about but truthfully they don’t have the answers. For instance you deal with in your book about Moses wrote a number of the books of Genesis; but these facts occurred before he lived how could he have done this?
James: Yeah, well I think he just received a compilation of cuneiform tablets you know the clay tablets that we learned the Babylonians used to write in you know they’d add to their letters in to the wet clay and it would dry. Well the Hebrew word for to write Sid is you know you read the book, is to cut in. “So, cut into a piece of paper?” “No, cut into a clay cuneiform tablet” and the Middle Eastern custom at 2000 BC was at the bottom the writer or the owner of the table would have his name signed off at the bottom of it. And when these cuneiform tablets were signed off by the Patriarchs mentioned in the Bible before and after the deluge they signed it off these are the generations of; for instance Noah. Now Sid what is generations mean in the Bible? It doesn’t mean progeny after Noah it means origins, it means these are the origins of Noah, so Noah eye witnessed account reported all that he had seen in his life recorded it on a clay cuneiform tablet, signed off on it at the bottom, “These are the generations of” the word Hebrew word for generations is toladah, which means origins not offspring, is a progeny you know his Grandsons and great grandsons. Talking about his ancestors, so apparently all this history was written down by eyewitnesses signed off at the bottom by the eyewitnesses and Moses had those stacks of those cuneiform tablets and simply edited it and redacted them; according to the Holy Spirit.
Sid: Jim, how did you get so interested in verifying the Bible and coming up with this book “Old Earth Why Not?”
James: Well, I became a Christian; age twenty-six, after graduating from Dartmouth College, Degree in Geology. Was born again, famously born-again, lightning bolt shot in my head on a hung-over morning. Started a flit from my upper left temple, went into my head just like the scales came off, hangover gone, you know the preverbal jumping around preaching for the week after like a new born Christian babe, you know that was age twenty-six. But still I had no reason to believe that what I’d learned at my little Ivy League college was not true that the earth were billions of years old. And still at about age thirty I’m fifty-three now, at age thirty I picked up Henry Boris’s book “The Genesis Flood” he founded the Institute for Creation Research.” That was in 1985 it like the scales came off of my eyes, like a secondary born-again experience you know. Finally as a geologist what I’d learned in college all the information made sense; I mean it didn’t make sense without the global flood model. After all how do you explain vast flat layers grading into each other up on the continents stacked like pancakes with billions of creatures in tune there in.
Sid: And let me ask you this question with all the research that you’ve done, with all the study of the Bible that you’ve done, are their areas in the accounts of the history of planet earth in say the book of say Genesis that you really don’t have a reasonable explanation for?
James: Well, the only, it’s kind of a slum dumb deal just a silly notion that well the naysayers will say “Where’s the garden of Eden, where’s the garden of Eden, well you know it’s under 10,000 feet of sediment (laughing) that’s about the only you know…
Sid: Well, that’s nothing so is there any area?
James: No, that’s about it to tell you the truth, and like I’ve told a …
Sid: But what about? Okay here’s the most basic question and that is we have all of these scientific methods plus a lot of understanding from history and geology and archeology that the earth is millions of years old and not 6,000 years old?
James: Well, let me – chew on this one Sid, check this one out. “Okay you know there’s erosion off the continents because of rain going into river you know sweeping the sediments off the continents over time; 27 billion tons of sediment is eroded off the continents every year.
James: Okay, okay presuming that rate into the past okay, within 80 million years the oceans should have filled the brim with sediments.
Sid: In other words there would be no oceans.
James: Right within 80 million years and yet they say rocks on the continents are up to several billion years old; some of them are on the surface. So it’s totally totally absorbed as well at that current erosion rate 27 billion tons per year presuming that rate is the past all the continents should have been leveled to sea level within fifteen million years. And yet they say “The rocks of the continents are up to billions of years old, it’s absurd.
Sid: What about something like, is there really evidence of Noah’s flood that’s described in Genesis, did it really occur?
James: Just look around you the next time you’re driving through a road cut in sedimentary rock terrain you know sedimentary meaning sandstones, shales, limestones, you know when you’re driving through a road cut in one of those areas you’ll see those bands?
James: Those are sedimentary layers and sedimentary means laid out at the bottom of a body of water. So there is a body of water up on the continents that laid all those vast layers down entombing billions of creatures; those are fossils that we see. Some of the fossils even still having bone-marrow and red corpuscles from the T-Rex’s recently discovered in Montana, as well as, I believe in North Carolina. You know organic live red corpuscles that should have degraded millions of years after they supposedly went extinct, “65 million years ago.” So it all bespeaks of global encompassing flood in entombing, how—fossils aren’t being formed today when an animal dies it might fall in the river go down rot, degrade, float, bloat, scavengers eat it bacteria eat it up within a matter of weeks there’s no sign of it. The delta should be full of animals being covered up with all the sediments eventually to rise above the ocean dry out to become fossils. Now that is what the uniform uniformitarian scheme taught at our schools is all about, and it’s totally absurd.
Sid: What I want to ask Jim is how could all these different types of animals; all these different species fit on Noah’s ark? He has an answer in his book; he has an answer to questions that have been troubling you for so long.