Sid: We want everyone everywhere to move in God’s furious love and that’s the name of a brand new DVD Movie that we’re making available this week by Darren Wilson. And I have Darren on the telephone, you may be familiar with him because he did the DVD “Finger of God” about miracles and it was…You know Darren one of the things that I like about you is you don’t have heirs or facades. I mean, you know you just call it for what it is; and I think when people hear you they realize that you’re really a credible person, I can trust this person. Because some of the miracles you documented in “Finger of God” were off the chart you know dead people coming back to life, gold teeth being materialized. And everyone expected you to do a follow-up film with miracles after “Finger of God, but you were instructed by God to show the war that’s going on between darkness and light. And that the only way you can win, and by the way the closer we get to the return of the Messiah the greater that war is going to be. And the only way that you can win is through love. But then the question that you had to be just pondering over and over in your head is “How do you film love?”
Darren: Yeah, that was the big question and that’s the question that a lot of people ask me and you know people were they thought that it sounded like a good concept. But you know I could tell that there was something in their comments like, “good luck.”
Sid: Ha-ha well, well and I’m sure you felt as uneasy about this second film as you did about the first film, maybe more.
Darren: Yeah, I did, there’s a moment and its funny because the Lord just reminded me of this, actually this morning as I was having devotions and now I kind of think I know why. But there is a moment that I was about to head to Indonesia and this was again, towards the beginning of filming Furious and when you travel a lot of times to these other countries I don’t really, most of the time I don’t know what I’m going to go film. It is not like I go with some grand agenda all of the time, I usually just go and I’m going to hook up with one or two ministries and like we’ll see what God wants to do. But this, going to Indonesia was different because I didn’t, it totally was a referral from somebody that I trusted and I just couldn’t get the information that I needed and I’m spending literally tens of thousands of dollars to get my whole crew to go to Indonesia to film. And I remember it is like four days before were leaving and I still don’t know what I’m going for. I don’t know what I’m going to go film. And I remember having a conversation, I was walking my dog, I love how God shows up at the weirdest places, walking my dog on the pathway outside of my house and I’m fighting with him, “I’m like God this is ridiculous, Iike I’m spending I don’t know how much money you’re making me spend on this and I don’t even know why I’m going. You’re not telling me anything, I’m just in the dark I’m like, how am I supposed to make a movie like this?” And He stopped me in my tracks, you know sometimes God speaks to you and it’s those suddenly almost?
Darren: He hit you with an answer as soon as you ask Him a question, and it was that exact same thing happened to me. He says, “Whose movie is this?” And I said, “Well it’s yours, and He said “Do you want it to be my movie do you want me to make this movie or do you want to make this movie?” And I said look, I’ve tried to do my own thing for thirty years, you know. And he said “Who made “Finger of God?” I said, “You did.” He said, “How did that turn out?” Ha-ha, I said, “It turned out pretty good and then He said, “Just trust me.” And that was a major, major moment for me, for making this movie because so much of this film had to be made on the idea that of I had to trust God. Because He gave me permission to put His love to the test and that’s how we found love, we just went to the darkest places we could find. I said, “I want to see are You going to love these people, are you going to love that person?” And I said, and we just had to trust that He would show up and if He didn’t show up it is going to look really really bad for God you know. So I just had to place all of my trust in His hands and I said, “Alright, this is Your movie, I don’t want to take control, you take control.” And from that moment on it was, I’m not going to say clear sailing but it was a lot easier to walk into the darkness.
Sid: So you went to the darkest parts of the world and you proved that God’s love was stronger. Speaking of dark places, I’m just curious what kind of…what was going on inside of you, you were with a friend of mine that I have interviewed also by the name of Jeff Jansen in Tanzania and they had a special tent, tell me about that.
Darren: Yea, the movie opens with this and it gets your attention that’s for sure. It got my attention, because we went to film with Jeff, I was kind of doing a favor; I was kind of thinking I think I’ll start my movie here. But I wasn’t really sure and so I was going to go out there and he was doing a big crusade in Tanzania and you know he asked if I would be willing to come along and help his guys’ film and I said, “Yeah, can I bring my crew?” So we went out there and you know I’m expecting big crusade lots of miracles I mean that’s what I’ve always encountered and I noticed when we got there, there is this little white tent off to the side and I’m thinking “What’s that?” And I’m just you know, I’m from normal church back ground so I wonder if that’s where they put the hearing impaired or something?
Darren: You know, ha-ha that was literally what I was thinking. And so then I remember like the first day of the crusade you know Jeff there’s this salvation call and Jeff prays a prayer and all of the sudden all of these people start you know, manifesting demonic. And they start carrying all these people over to this white tent and I’m like oh, man that’s what that is. The demon tent, that is where they do the deliverance and so I’m like well let’s go and I was so naïve making this movie it is the funniest thing in the world. But I just walked over with my camera, walked in the tent and it was the most shocking thing I had ever seen in my life. And most people, when you watch the film I think you’ll be pretty shocked too. I certainly never had encountered anything like that.
Sid: But you focused in on one specific girl, tell me about her.
Darren: Yeah that was, I call her Abercrombie girl and we learned her name later but I still like Abercrombie girl because she wearing an Abercrombie sweatshirt, but I remember it was three days before I left for Tanzania and I was waking up one morning and you’re in that in between state you’re not quite awake but you’re not quite asleep you are just kind of groggy and I remember I was in that kind of state and I just got this picture it was literally like I was watching a movie and I saw this picture of this woman’s face kind of like screaming and kind of going back and forth and screaming her head off and I remember thinking, that’s really weird. And then I remember waking up and kind of forgot about it.
Sid: Now you’re normally not prone having all these visions and things like that.
Darren: No, what you’re hearing from me is like these are the only things that ever happen to me. Ha-ha.
Sid: Okay, so you have this vision of this young woman screaming her head off three days before you get there and what do you see in Tanzania?
Darren: So I walk into the white tent and I’m looking around and I look down and I see this girl whose rising around screaming as they’re trying to cast out the demon and I’m like that’s the girl I saw three days ago in like this dream vision thing. And so it was the most surreal real thing I’ve ever had happen to me while filming. I literally, I just open my camera up, I crouch down and I knew exactly where to put the camera, I knew exactly how to frame it, because I had seen it before; it was just like; I was just going from memory. And so when you see that at the beginning of the film…
Sid: Is that sort of like Jesus said, I only do what I see my Heavenly Father doing?
Darren: Could be, I don’t know because maybe it explains the ease that he did so many things because he had seen it done before you know. But, it was wild and that’s when I finally understood, I’m like okay the Lord wants this movie to get made.
Sid: But you have to tell the end result of the Abercrombie girl.
Darren: Oh yeah, well you save that for the end of the movie, just make sure you stick around for the credits.
Sid: Okay, we won’t give that one away. Everything that you saw, what do you think was the highlight if you could come up with such, to me each segment is a highlight; but for you, what was the high light?
Darren: Definitely in Salem that’s when we went to a witchcraft and occult festival in Salem, Massachusetts.
Sid: Now, weren’t you a little afraid going in there?
Darren: No, no I was never afraid, we were never afraid going anywhere, we were warned so many times when we go some place, we had hidden cameras everywhere. Supposedly the most dangerous place we went was Thailand in the heart of the sex trade in Thailand; they warned us if we get caught they will throw us off a roof. But by the end of the week we had literally like, the prostitutes were helping us film, like that’s like the kind of favor we had everywhere we went, we had no fear anywhere.
Sid: Was Salem the place where you had that African American man that had like a red hood over his head?
Darren: Yeah, yeah.
Sid: Oh that was amazing, that was amazing,
Darren: Yeah, that’s the reason it is most important for me, that’s the moment I got the thesis for the film. When I make these movies there very personal films because they’re my journey and I never know what the journey is going to be; I don’t how how it’s going to be mapped out. And so I went to, I thought that my job was to make the most entertaining movie I could make and basically I was going to have lots and lots of confrontations with the darkness. You know we are going to have big battles and things are going to be great for the camera and God’s going to show up and God’s going to win the day every day. So that’s what, in the beginning that’s what I thought that was what I was going to be filming. So we went to Salem with Jason Westerfield, who is in “Finger of God” people may remember him.
Sid: And I’ve also interviewed him on television and radio, but go ahead.
Darren: Yeah, so we went there and I went there, I’ll be really honest. I went there to pick a fight. There was no if ands or buts I wanted to have a throw down with…
Sid: A confrontation with the witch or something?
Darren: Yeah, yeah and that’s what we were ready to do we were all ready to do it. But we got there and we all just started creeping around and trying to pray for people and nothing was happening, like ever! And Jason was so nonplused because you know he turned to me at one point he said, “I don’t understand because God’s here, I can feel; His Spirit is here but he’s not releasing healing, he’s not releasing anything.
Sid: Oops were out of time.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah and operate in furious love. I love that, that’s the title of a brand new DVD that’s just out by Darren Wilson. For those of you that are not familiar with Darren Wilson, he is the one that put out “Finger of God.” And Darren, that was such an amazing testimony; here you have studied your life to be a writer; you never saw yourself as putting films together and you started; God started dealing with you about this, but it really took a supernatural encounter at the Toronto Airport Church to get you moving on something that was out of your comfort zone.
Darren: Yeah. Yeah, it was a yeah I think it was the only thing that was going to get to make a movie like that because I was pretty skeptical of the supernatural before I started making “Finger of God.” And so He, I guess He sent an Angel to you know to…
Sid: For those that haven’t’ heard, I want to hear this for me; I want to hear that story again; you’re sitting in a church and all of a sudden someone says, “There’s an angel there,” what was your reaction?
Darren: Yeah, well I was already uncomfortable, because for those people that don’t know much about the church it’s a, it’s a, you know fairly charismatic and I’m not really the most charismatic person in the world.
Sid: It’s the Toronto Airport Church. Ha-ha.
Darren: And so I was there because, and the reason I was there was my whole family had been really touched by God’s outpouring that had been going on there so they kind of bribed me into going. And so I was there and I was very uncomfortable and I wasn’t quite sure if this was even of God or you know that if this is just emotionalism or what? And then so this speaker gets on stage and interrupts worship, which again I thought was really rude and you know, he said, “That there’s an angel that has entered the building and his name is Breakthrough and my first thought was, “Yeah right.”
Darren: Yeah, it’s kind of the thing that pushed me over the edge of like, “I’m never coming back here. This place is…
Sid: If you could have gotten out discreetly, you would have?
Darren: Ha-ha, if my wife wouldn’t have pulled me right back in, I would have left. But yes, five minutes later I was trying to worship and so I just closed my eyes so that I didn’t have to see you know all the charismatic stuff that was going on in front of me. And this figure walks in front of me and I just saw this kind of like somebody walks past you and when your eyes are closed you can tell like the light changes kind of thing. So I just reflectively opened my eyes because I was kind of in the back and I thought that that was odd that somebody would be walking by me and there wasn’t anybody there and I thought that was strange. So I closed them again and the figure was still there. I could only see it with my eyes closed and it was just standing there; I could see the outline of his form with my eyes closed and he turned to me walked up to me asked me three times are you ready, and I had no idea what he was talking about. But I grew up in a church and so I knew that if an angel asked you a question you say yes and you find out later what it’s all about. I just remember that he was so so so intense, he was just like I remember at one point he’s talking to me and he’s so like just crackling with intensity. And he’s asking me are you ready? And I remember thinking that this guy wants to breakthrough a wall and that’s when I put the puzzle pieces together and I realized that old guy that had just got on stage and said, “An angel named “Breakthrough has just entered the building.” And I finally realized that he was telling the truth, because I have this presence in front of me. And at the end of basically asked me three times “If I was ready and each time I said, “Yes.” At the end I said, “Ready for what, what are you talking about?” And he just looked at me and he said, “Make that movie,” and it was “Finger of God.” And so that’s what at that point I was kind of like…
Sid: Well, that movie, “Finger of God” not only changed your life forever, but its changing people’s lives all over the world. What, looking back in retrospect, after you did this movie of people being raised from the dead and gold teeth, this was a relative of yours that got gold teeth.
Darren: Yeah, my Aunt and my Uncle, both of them.
Sid: What effect would say in a couple of sentences this film has had on people that have seen it?
Darren: Well, I can only speak to the ones that get back to me and universally I’d say 99% of the feedback that I get which at this point it’s reaching 100’s to 1,000’s. People are utterly transformed, they’ve kind of like they’ve rediscovered the God of the Bible; and some of them they’ve discovered Him for the first time. Lots of people have been healed just by watching it. Lots of churches have been kind of turned upside down; so it’s been pretty radical, it’s the most humbling thing that’s ever happened to me, that’s for sure.
Sid: I would think anyone that doesn’t believe in miracles would have to re-exam their thinking after seeing that video. But so then you’re just about finished with the “Finger of God” video and Heidi Baker, who I’ve interviewed a number of times and boy her ministry has seen a lot of resurrections from the dead. How many do they estimate?
Darren: I don’t know, I haven’t talked to them in probably a year and half or so but last count I knew that it was over three hundred, last count.
Sid: Three, did you get that, 300 people that were dead came back to life and they have some pretty rigorous requirements, it’s not just someone that they think that is dead, they know these people that have died, is that your understanding?
Darren: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah I think that it’s the kind of thing that if they are not dead for more than four hours, they’re not dead.
Sid: Ha-ha. So Heidi gives you a prophecy just as you finish the video of the movie “The Finger of God.”
Darren: Yeah, basically actually I hadn’t even finished putting the movie together, that’s the funny part of all of this. We were in Istanbul, I had just finished filming, it was the last thing I filmed for the movie was with Heidi in Istanbul with the gypsies. And so I remember I was on the bus ride back to the hotel and I was starting to have a nervous breakdown because and I’m sitting there thinking that I have over 100 hours of footage and I don’t have anything; I don’t have a story; I didn’t film anything of worth, you know the enemy was just piling it on and I was starting to hyperventilate and near bursting into tears. My wife is looking at me and is like “What’s wrong with you?” and so I remember I talked with Heidi and just kind of explained that I’m having a tough time here, I don’t know what is going on but. So basically that night we all went out to dinner, me and Heidi and the whole team and she king of put me in the middle and had everybody pray for me. And so at one point she comes up and she starts to pray for me and you know she starts out like you know just a nice prayer, “God bless him and show him what to do and blah blah blah.” And you have to understand at this point the next movie was nowhere on my radar; I didn’t even think I was going to be able to put the first movie together; I had no thought about a movie. And so she’s praying for me and all of sudden she like stops and she hesitates in her prayer and I think I even opened my eyes and looked at her like what’s going on? And you could tell, I could tell she was seeing something in the Spirit that was disturbing her, it wasn’t, I started to get worried at this point and she says, “Darren I don’t know what this means or I’m just going to tell you what I see what I feel the Lord is saying, I see you filming the occult, I see you filming the demonic.” And my first thought was, ought oh, ha-ha-ha. You know, that’s not what I want to do. “But then she said, “But this is what the Lord says you have to go into the darkness to show the light.” I remember I talked to her afterwards and then she kept on with her prayer. I went to her afterward and I said, “What does that mean, have to go into the darkness to show the light?” She said, “I have no idea, that is just what the Lord, but I heard it just as clear as anything I have ever heard.”
Sid: And did you have any idea at that point?
Darren: No clue, no clue I’m like I have to go film the demonic, I don’t want to film the demonic.
Sid: No, who wants to even touch that? But then you went back to that same church in Toronto and you had a vision and this vision clarified the prophetic word you got from Heidi Baker.
Darren: Yeah, I was back at the church, I had a couple of things left, I had to do just one last little interview with John and Carol Arnott, the Head Pastors of the church and remember I was just enjoying worship that night. We were worshiping and I wasn’t even thinking about anything. I wasn’t thinking about the movies or anything, I was just trying to worship the Lord. And the best way I could describe it is occasionally He’ll give me these downloads and it’s the only way I can describe it where He just kind of plops everything all at once into my head and it’s kind of what happened at that point when He just, He hit me so hard with this idea, I guess you could call it, that it actually like slammed me back into my seat. I was kind of startled because it came out of nowhere and it was basically the very, it was two phrases, but those two phrases just put everything together and that’s what I understood that I had to do next. And the two phrases were show them that there’s a war happening and it’s a war between darkness and light and then show them that the only way they can win this war is through love. And that’s when I knew, and then it’s funny because on the trip up to Toronto my wife and I were driving and we were listening to Brendan Manning, “The Ragged Muffin Gospel” and in there he used a quote from GK Chesterton where he talks about the furious love of God and I remember thinking like boy that would be a really cool title you know “Furious Love.” I never heard that phrase before, and it just so happened that that night is when He gave me the rest of the down loading. I put two and two together and I was ready to go make a movie.
Sid: Well, I have to tell you, although the movie is brand new, I had a chance to review that movie and you know what? In my opinion after seeing that movie is what we call Christianity here in the west is so shallow. And the other thought and I’ve been on a quest my whole life to walk in God’s love. I mean that’s really my purpose and this “Furious Love” will show people the reality, that’s what God told you. It would show that there’s really a war between darkness and light and most Christians don’t even know that this war is going on above them. But then, when you see how people operate in love and how the most impossible situations God has greater power than all the darkness in the world put together. And I mean, I’m sure that’s what you wanted to accomplish.
Darren: Yeah, and that was the big thing is, I kept telling people when they asked me “What my next people is about?” I’m saying well, it’s about love and it’s about showing, you know the reality of God’s love and everybody asks me the same question, “How do you do that, how do you film love, how do you film,” It is one thing to film miracles, okay I get that, but I had people that loved Finger and they just did not understand the concept. They didn’t understand how you are going to do this? How are you going to show what love looks like?
Sid: I would urge everyone that is listening to get a hold of this.
Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with Mike Shreve. And Mike, I explained a little bit about my background and you explained a little bit about yours because this book, “Truthseekers”, is so vital. What did God tell you would happen with this book?
Mike: Well at the end of writing the book, I was awakened one morning and I heard the audible voice of God say, “Bumper crop.” And to be honest with you, I had no idea what a bumper crop was. So I went to the dictionary and looked it up and it means an extraordinarily high yield of harvest. What does that mean? That means there’s millions of people, I believe, that are going to be affected by this book, that are going to be harvested unto the Lord Jesus Christ as a result of the wonderful stories and testimonies.
Sid: Are there many people involved in the New Age today?
Mike: Oh, it permeates.
Sid: You were telling me some statistics.
Mike: Well between 1990 and the year 2000, Christianity, according to a reputable poll, only grew 5%. But during that same period of time, the New Age grew 240%. Now that difference continues unabated into the future. The New Age ideas, the New Age philosophy is going to just totally take over the world.
Sid: Well no it’s not. We’re going to win.
Mike: Yes, sir, definitely.
Sid: But that’s what its goal is. And as a matter fact, most people are looking at Islam as the End Time key player in the last days. I think and Mike thinks it’s the New Age.
Mike: Yes, the New Age.
Sid: Tell me what their strategy is.
Mike: Well if it’s all right, let me mention this. Three means by which the stage will be set for the Antichrist and that’s governmental, which is the New World Order political agenda and then economic, international banking elite that are moving us towards a one-world currency. And then you have the spirituality side of this three-part stage that is being set for the Antichrist, and that’s the New Age. And the reason the New Age is the perfect religious philosophy to under-gird the Antichrist is because it embraces everybody. It says all paths are legitimate paths to God. And so it will seem as though the whole world is being harmonized under this particular philosophy.
Sid: Well you know, everyone is looking at Islam. I have a theory. When everyone is looking at one particular thing, the devil is not wasting his time. He wants you to look. It’s almost like a diversion.
Mike: It’s a smoke screen.
Sid: It’s, I’ll tell you what, there are people that are watching us right now and you have been touching on the new age and you are in the new age. For instance, witchcraft, communicating with the dead, going to fortune tellers. What are some of the other areas?
Mike: Tarot cards, yoga, meditation.
Sid: Reincarnation. You know, the Bible says you live once and then comes the Judgment. As a matter of fact, you don’t have to keep coming back when you believe in Jesus because you become the righteousness of God in the site of Jesus. You can’t get any more righteous. I mean, and who would want to come back as an animal or a human, or anything? I mean, I want to walk with intimacy with God. I want the truth. And as Pontius Pilot said, “What is truth?” Speak to a new-ager about truth right now.
Mike: Jesus said, “I am the truth.” When I was a new-ager, I didn’t think it was important to come to Jesus. I was told that forgiveness of sins, that’s not necessary. We evolve through many incarnations to perfection. But when I was confronted with Christianity and biblical truth the whole scenario changed. Then God becomes personal. And if I come to him at the cross I’m forgiven of my sins. Jesus paid the price so that sins could be cleansed. I didn’t know if it would work or not. I really had a lot of misgivings. But I invited Jesus to come into my heart. I said, “If you’re there, if you’re my Messiah I accept you as my savior. Forgive me of my sins. Fill me with the Holy Spirit.” And it happened. And for the first time in my life I had an encounter with God. I cannot persuade you intellectually that Jesus is the only way. But if you get a similar experience, an encounter with God, that supernatural reality of God coming back into your heart and life will show you that the cross and the resurrection, and the biblical point of view truly is the only way to a relationship with God being restored.
Sid: And you know, Mike, the thing that I like to say is you’re at such a low level of spirituality if you’re in the new age that why would you ever want to settle with a cheap spiritual counterfeit when you can taste the real thing. I’m reminded what Mike said when he was challenged, just as your challenged right now. Is that I’m going to take a day, where I tell you don’t even take a day. Prayer a prayer that goes something like this, in your own words: Dear Jesus, I’ve committed many sins for which I’m so sorry. I believe your blood washes away my sins. I believe I’m clean and now that I’m clean Jesus, as Mike said, come into me and become Lord of my life. Pray that right now and you will never, ever be the same because the love of God will flood you.
Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with Mike Shreve. And we’ve just found out that if you have a good counterfeit it must be a good counterfeit of something authentic. The authentic of God based on the Bible is the supernatural, miracles, healings, wonderful things of God. But there’s something that looks so close that many people are being deceived and it’s called the New Age. Now Mike Shreve was an instructor of yoga at four universities in the Tampa, Florida area. And they read a big newspaper article about him and a prayer group got a hold of this and they started praying for him by name, every hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And a friend of his had just had an encounter with Jesus that was in the New Age, like he was, and wrote him a letter. And he said, “I’m not paying any attention to that, but just in case, I’m going to take one day and pray and find out who this Jesus is.” And so he takes that day and he is hitchhiking. And guess who picks him up? Someone from that prayer group. How in the world? That’s a needle in a haystack, Mike. How did they do that?
Mike: It was amazing. It was absolutely amazing the way the Holy Spirit orchestrated the whole thing. One of the members of the prayer group who happened to be a former yoga student himself, now that doesn’t like coincidence, it sounds to me like a God instance. He was walking in a Laundromat and the Holy Spirit fell on him and said, “Don’t go in there. I’ve got a job for you to do. Get in your van and start driving.” He had no idea where God was going to lead him. But he started driving and every time he felt an impulse he’d take a turn. He didn’t know that two miles away I was standing on the side of the ride hitchhiking. I had been praying all day long from 3:30 in the morning until that afternoon that Jesus would reveal to me if he was the truth. And now I’m going to teach a yoga class. And he never picked up hitchhikers, but he said he felt this compulsion again to pull over the side of the road and pick me up. And when I opened the door and looked in my heart just started leaping inside of me.
Mike: Because he had taped a picture of Jesus to the ceiling of his van.
Sid: And you’re praying, Jesus if you’re real, show me.
Mike: And that’s the first thing I saw when I got in the van. I looked up and there’s this picture. So I’m sitting on the edge of my seat in expectation. And a few minutes later, he turned around and said, “Friend, can I ask you a question?” I said yes. He said, “Have you ever experienced Jesus coming into your heart?” I said, “No, but when can I?” And he gave me this surprise look like I wasn’t supposed to respond so quick.
Sid: I mean, you pray and pray, and pray and then he says, “Can I?” And you say, what?
Mike: He said, “You can come to our prayer meeting tonight.” I said, “I don’t want to wait that long.” If I can find Jesus I want to find him now. And so he pulled the van over to the side of the road, left it running, we knelt down in the back of the van, we talked a little while, and then I prayed a simple prayer that I thought was too simple to bring me into contact with God, but it worked.
Sid: But it revolutionized his life. In fact, then he goes back to those hundreds of students at the four universities. And what did you tell your yoga students?
Mike: Well I told them that the classes would be dismissed because unknowingly I had mislead them and that I found out Jesus was the only way. And see, what I had taught them, Sid, which is a new age belief, is that there’s a spark of divinity within every human being, and to find God you look within. And that’s a universal opportunity. It doesn’t involve one particular religion, according to new age philosophies. But I had discovered when I invited Jesus into my heart that the Holy Spirit came into me from without. So God was external prior to a salvation experience, or an experience of union with God instead of inside. And that just jarred me to the core of my being, realizing that I had instructed them wrong.
Sid: How did they react when you told them this?
Mike: Most of my main students became Christians also. And we stopped the classes from that very point.
Sid: By the way, just for my interest, there are many Christians involved in yoga today. Is that wrong?
Mike: I counsel people not to involve themselves even in the physical aspect of yoga. There’s five main reasons I give that people should…
Sid: Give me your strongest.
Mike: Well my strongest reason is number one, if you go to a yoga studio where there’s pictures of Krishna and statues of Buddha and there’s a prevalent belief system that all religions are different paths to the same God, it’s similar to walking into an idol temple, because it’s acknowledging false gods and goddesses as being real. Even if you only involve yourself the physical yoga, the Hatha Yoga, you are in an atmosphere that is not going to be blessed of the Holy Spirit. And I tell people just not to involve themselves.
Sid: Okay. So there are least five reasons. That was just one. I’m reminded of myself. Before I knew the Messiah, I didn’t know my left from my right spiritually. I get involved in the New Age. In my case it was a meditation course. It was the Silva Mind Control course. And I was told that I controlled everything. I invite this counselor into my head. I thought it was all imaginary. The Bible calls it a familiar spirit and that I control this familiar spirit. But I found out that when I was exposed to the belief that Jesus was my Messiah this friend, as they called it, became my enemy, started cursing. And in fact, it reminds of the Harfouch’s. Tell me that story real quick.
Mike: Robin Harfouche has a chapter in the book, “Truthseekers”. It’s an amazing, amazing story. She, from an early age, was exposed to the psychic realm and she had experiences with spirit beings, and then eventually met what she thought was a spirit guide that step by step introduced her to key people in Hollywood and orchestrated events supernaturally so that she became a rising star in Hollywood.
Sid: But she was hand-picked.
Mike: Yes she was.
Sid: … to be a spokeswoman. As a matter of fact, the same manager of Shirley MacLaine was her manager and she was hand-picked to be supernaturally elevated in Hollywood to be a pied piper for the new religion called the New Age. And when she wanted to take a break this spirit tried to kill her.
Mike: Actually, the spirit caused an accident to take place where she was crushed under this very heavy door and it was a paralyzing affect. She was paralyzed and destined to be a cripple the rest of her life. But that just set her up for a miracle.
Sid: Of course. As a matter of fact, at one point she saw her spirit guide and it looked just like Marilyn Monroe. Except she saw it change shape and become a demon. We’ll be right back after this word.
Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest, Mike Shreve, is an expert on an area called New Age. Most people aren’t familiar with what the New Age is. As a matter of fact, many people that call themselves Bible believers, have a mixture. They have a little new age and a little true supernatural of God. So I asked Mike to explain what the counterfeit looks like and keep in mind you can’t have a good counterfeit unless it’s a counterfeit of something authentic. The authentic is the supernatural of God as defined in the Bible. The counterfeit looks like it, smells like it, tastes like it, but it really isn’t. Mike, what is exactly included in this term “new age”?
Mike: Well it’s a very comprehensive term, Sid, that can swing all the way to the left and embrace dark spirituality like Wicca and witchcraft, and then it can swing all the way to the right and embrace groups like mind science groups and positive thinking courses, and quite a few other groups in the middle.
Sid: Now you wouldn’t think that swinging all the way to the right, as you put it, that positive thinking would be under that, but it really is.
Mike: Well there are certain new age principles…
Mike: … they adhere to that unite them altogether under this banner. Almost all new age type groups believe in a coming new age of heightened spiritual awareness in the world that differ in how they think that’s going to pass. But it’s all based on astrology because actually the term “new age” stems from astrology, the idea that the sun passes through 12 houses as it goes around the earth, which is of course, opposite to the truth.
Sid: That’s why I said, it’s a good counterfeit.
Mike: But the new age is called the Aquarian age. And according to astrology, we are now in the Piscean age, which is an age of knowledge and reason and that we’re at the juncture where we’re passing into the Aquarian age, which is supposed to be an age of spirituality and God-consciousness in the world, where many of the world’s problems are solved. So it’s a very optimistic view of the future and it’s all tied in with an awakening in spirituality.
Sid: Now you said it covers so many different areas. But yet, there are certain things in common. What else does it all have in common?
Mike: New-agers usually embrace some of these beliefs. For instance, number one, they believe in the need for spirituality instead of religion. Most of them are burned out on religion.
Sid: Does that sound familiar?
Mike: But this is where the error comes in. They believe that all religions and all paths of spirituality are legitimate means to achieve the “in”, which is ultimate reality. Most new-agers are looking for an experience of ultimate reality. And number three, they believe that there are means or devices they can implement in order to achieve an experience of ultimate reality, like meditation or yoga or things like that. Then most new-agers also believe that, as I mentioned, there is a coming age of enlightenment, and the way we’re going to move into that new age is by individuals awakening their own divine nature. Now there’s a very key element. Most new-agers believe that we are God, that we are expressions of the Divine, and the key to bringing this planet to peace is realizing our own Godhood, if you would. And that’s the antithesis of the truth, we’ll never be God and we can awaken a God nature within. But that’s one of the basic teachings.
Sid: Well you know, the reason that Mike is so well knowledgeable, because, number one, he studied for many years, but before he knew the Messiah, he actually taught yoga at four universities in the Tampa, Florida area. Why did you even get into yoga? What was your goal?
Mike: When I was a freshman in college, I had a near-death experience because of drugs. I went into an overdose experience where I felt, I believe it was actually happening, my soul leaving my body, the life gathering from my hands and feet to the center of my chest, going out into this void that was quite frightening. And I realized then that I was throwing my life away and I needed to find something of eternal value. So I dropped out of college to study under an Indian guru and I became very devoted to a group called Kundalini Yoga, under a man named Yogi Bhajan. And I was spending from 3:30 in the morning to 5:30 at night in some kind of discipline doing Hatha Yoga, Raji Yoga, meditating, chanting, mantras, reading various scriptures.
Sid: You were really dedicated.
Mike: I was into it passionately for a long period of time.
Sid: If Bible believers were just as dedicated. And Mike, you were successful. There was a full-page article about you in a Tampa newspaper.
Mike: And I thought that would increase my classes. I was teaching at four universities.
Sid: About how many students?
Mike: I had about two to 300 students in four universities in the Tampa area. And this big article came out in the Tribune and I thought for certain my classes would go from 200 to maybe 900 or a thousand. Instead..
Sid: But wait a second? Were you materialistic? Did you want to make money? What was your goal?
Mike: No. In fact, I never charged for my classes. I just put a little basket in the back of the class and if they wanted to drop something in they did. I lived a very separated life. I was somewhat of a recluse and I didn’t know anything materially. So that was my focus. But I wanted to impact the world. I thought that what was teaching would help people bring their lives to a place of peace and a place where they could achieve God-consciousness and become more whole individuals.
Sid: But unbeknownst to Mike, what he thought the purpose of this full-page article was not the purpose at all.
Sid: A group of born-again Christians read the article and decided they wanted to make a focus of their prayer, Mike Shreve. And did they pray a lot for you?
Mike: Every hour.
Sid: Every hour?
Mike: They assigned somebody to do fasting and praying over me every hour of everyday.
Sid: You didn’t stand a chance.
Mike: No. For a month, I was soaked with intercession.
Sid: Okay. So you decide you’re going to check the Bible out, check Jesus out and you say, I’m going to take one day.
Mike: Just one day
Sid: Tell me about that day.
Mike: Well what happened is during that month-long period I got a letter from an old friend and he told me how he had been born-again, which was a foreign term to me. I didn’t understand, but he described Jesus coming into his heart and how he finally had an encounter with God. I wrote him back and said, “That doesn’t make sense to me.” But the letter just weighed on my mind until one day, as you said, I decided, you know, I’ve got to be open-minded. So I dedicated that whole day to the Lord Jesus and I said I’m not going to do yoga. I’m not going to chant. I’m not going to do any meditation like I’m normally involved in. I’m just going to pray and read the Bible today. And if you really are the Messiah and if you really did come to die on a cross for the sense of humanity, then I believe you’ll show me today.
Sid: Alright. Hold that thought. I know you’re going anywhere. We’ll be back right after this word.
Sid: Now, my guest Dennis Walker has caught something from God that every believer on earth can walk in. That every believer on earth must walk in, as a matter of fact, “Dennis has the Lord shown you that we’re coming close to that point where there will be so many miracles and such a revival I have to believe that we are getting close to that point?”
Dennis: I believe that as well, I see things happening that just confirm that as things get darker, people of God have to shine like bright lights.
Sid: You know, I was reminded on yesterdays broadcast of a, I read the life story of Pat Robertson, and it was called “Shout it From the Rooftops.” And one day God spoke to Pat and said that through a scripture, “Sell everything that you have.” So his wife was out of town, so he sells all the furniture in his apartment, but he doesn’t tell his wife and so she comes home to an empty apartment. “Where is my furniture? Where’s my bed?” You know can you image the argument that he had. “Well, what happened when your wife came home because God told you to put a tent in your house, what did she think?”
Dennis: Well, my wife ask the question “Den, doesn’t that go up outside?” And I told her…
Sid: That’s an understatement. Ha-ha
Dennis: I said, “No, this is going to be in the house and me in it. Ha ha.
Sid: Ah ha and “What did she say?” Ha-ha
Dennis: Well, my wife is very gracious, she is probably the most gracious person on earth and she said, “Honey, pup, whatever it takes.” Ha-ha.
Sid: Okay, so was this in the living room or?
Dennis: Yes, it was in our living room.
Sid: I see and so what did you do with this tent in the living room?
Dennis: Well, the Lord had spoken to me that I would meet with Him in the tent and that He would restore to me the Feast of Tabernacles and so I got in the tent.
Sid: Wait a second, what did that mean to you at that time, He’d restore the Feast of Tabernacle?
Dennis: What I knew about the Feasts was that all of the Feasts of Israel were pictures of things coming in the future. The Feast of Passover was given to Israel to be a picture of something that would happen in the future, so that when it happened they would recognize it. And this was what happened when Jesus became our Passover Lamb. His blood was shed to bring us into right standing and access back into the very presence of God. And then there’s other feasts that we are all pictures of things to come. The Feast of Pentecost, to picture something coming. The Feast of Tabernacles is also a picture of an event coming where we learn to dwell and abide with God. So that’s what that meant to me, I was waiting for this, God is going to teach us how to live with Him.
Sid: Okay, so just out of curiosity from the day God told you to have the tent how long did it take for you to have an appointment with God?
Dennis: Oh, it happened the very same night I set up the tent, I climbed in. I got quiet; I put on headphones with instrumental music just to filter out any distraction and suddenly as I set my mind on things above, just as it says in Colossians Chapter 3 verses 1 & 2. And the Bible actually teaches you seek Heaven and it tells you how; set your mind on things above. So I simply did that, I got into the tent set my mind on things above and suddenly I’m caught into an awareness of things happening in Heaven.
Sid: Well, tell me the first thing that God told you when He spoke with you in that tent.
Dennis: The first thing He did was that He sat down with me and began to unpack the whole story of Nicodemus coming to Jesus in the middle of the night.
Sid: Now, when you say that He sat down with you, did you…was this something you could see with your eyes, was this something you sensed, or was this something that you were hearing, what do you mean?
Dennis: I was seeing this with my eyes, now I’m in my tent, I have all the awareness that my body is still in this tent, but in my spirit I was in heavenly places sitting with Jesus as He began to talk to me. And then He talked to me about this story of Nicodemus.
Sid: Why Nicodemus?
Dennis: Well, there is so much more of that story than what we’ve known, it’s all about seeing and hearing in the Heaven. Jesus told Nicodemus that you can’t see into Heaven unless you are born again, that you are born of the Spirit. And then He said you can’t enter Heaven unless you are born of water and the Spirit. And so it is all about seeing and entering into Heaven. And then He began to unfold that even more, telling us that the wind blows no one knows where it comes from and no one knows where it goes. So is everyone that is born of the Spirit and then I began to understand that God’s plan for us was to know Heaven. That Jesus died on the cross and His blood was shed to give us access to the very presence of God. That some way or another He wanted us to live out of the very resources of Heaven and not just the resources of earth. And so He began to show me; eyes would open your ability to know, taste touch and smell would open your spiritual senses would be activated to have experiences into Heaven.
Sid: Well, you not only had experiences into Heaven, you not only had Jesus teach you from the scriptures and really restore the true meaning of the Feast of Tabernacles, but your wife says when these things would occur and you would come out of the tent you would really be a changed person. What did she observe?
Dennis: You know, she actually said that do me. She said, “You know I love it when you spend time in the tent.” I was curious well why, why do you like it because I’m in there hours and hours and she said, “When you come out of that tent, you come out tender.” And that was different; I was not necessarily a tender person that wasn’t my natural state. But God was changing my character as I spent time with Him in that place.
Sid: And now, just out of curiosity, “Did your wife ever go into that tent? I mean I would have gone into it.
Dennis: Yeah, absolutely, in fact I still had two of my kids living at home when I was starting this whole thing and I had after awhile they started seeing a change in their Dad, change in the husband and they all started spending time in the tent and they all got activated into these kind of things. I mean I have prophetic children; I have a prophetic wife, because God has really poured His Spirit into them and they see beyond just the natural things.
Sid: And this is what you are teaching…
Dennis: That’s right…, simple simple simple, simple things in fact I have people read the book, I have had people that have heard me speak on these things and they have said, you know this is so simple; I have missed it because of the simplicity.
Sid: Well, you know doesn’t Jesus say that unless you become like a little child. Now, how could a child understand something complex?
Dennis: Exactly, oh man, I tell you. And He wants everyone to be able to this and not just really smart people.
Sid: Take one person that has either read your book, heard the CD or been in a seminar with you and tell me what happened to them.
Dennis: Okay, I’ve got a bunch of stories; I am going to try to pick one that is a shorter story. How about this one, a lady who began to hear our teachings and came to be part of our training center here in Los Vegas and she had been a member of the church for many years and never really had done anything. She sang in the choir, but never seen anybody born again, never seen miracles and she began to take the things that we tell people. She began to share Jesus with people, coworkers and things around her and all of a sudden that got her a lot of opposition amongst some of the workers that she was with and one day she is crying out to the Lord. Lord they are so mean to me how long will I have to put up with this? And the Lord told her that this one lady that was like the ring leader he was going to take out of the way. And so she went to work and the lady was gone and she didn’t know where she was. Turns out the lady had come down with a very very aggressive cancer and so this lady began to cry out. God give me this woman’s life, I want to see her born again, I want to see her healed. God spoke to her by initiative of Heaven the very things that we had taught. And said go to the hospital and I’ll use you to heal her. And this woman got healed, got saved in the hospital. Went back to the casino and told all of the employees in the casino this woman healed me and now she can’t go in and out of work without people asking for prayer, people asking for help.
Sid: Now, you have an apostolic resource center right there in Las Vegas. What is your…your vision of course is to equip people to go to the four corners of the earth but what’s your vision for Las Vegas, I’m curious.
Dennis: Oh yes, there is a great plan of God for our city. You know I have traveled literally in the jungles on the rivers Africa, South America, Asia and everywhere I have ever gone everybody know about Las Vegas. Everybody knows what Las Vegas is, it has…
Sid: Sure it’s synonym is the sin city.
Dennis: That’s right, all over the world that’s what they call it. I believe God has a plan in these last days to take this city and bring it to such a place where the by word around the world is “Have you heard what is happening in Las Vegas?”
Sid: Well, I want the by word to be in the house of those that are listening “Have you heard what’s happening to that family in that house…”
Sid: My guest Dr. Renny McLean and all I have to say Renny, is what are you hearing?
Renny: I just as you just did that introduction alone Sid, I just saw a miracle happen in the Spirit. I saw somebody in a hospital and I saw somebody in the hospital and I saw them on life support. This day is going to be marked by an incredible miracle. I see, I see unusual miracles taking place today in this broadcast. I see somebody on life support coming out, coming off that bed I see it, I see it, I see it, I see it, I hear faith of life today, faith alive and faith unlimited. Oh yes Sir.
Sid: Renny, tell me about the person that had and this is almost unbelievable accept I know its normal, tell me about the person that had a prosthetic leg and it materialized into a real leg.
Renny: Well, this was, this was three years ago in Miami. I was ministering in a small Pentecostal church and we had three weeks of signs wonders and miracles. No two weeks of it and I was ready to go after two weeks you know. And I was driving down to get my last drive to the beach and so on my way down there, the pastor calls me and says “Dr. Renny you can’t leave yet,’ I said, “Well, why?” “You never heard what happened?” I said, “No.” And let me just bring you up to speed with that. The reason I said, I didn’t know was when we closed the night before I didn’t pray for the sick. The last thing that I remember saying from the platform was this. I mean the worship was high, it was really wonderful and I made this statement and this is what I said. I’m telling you people are going to have to hear this real slowly. I said, “The only part of your mind that works with your faith is your imagination, because there is no law there.”
Sid: Oh that is powerful.
Renny: And I said, “You never see miracles in the terms of reasons, because reason by nature denies miracles. So I said, “You are going to have to lose reason to step into your imagination, cause in your imagination there’s no wall, but in your reason there is.” And I made that statement and I walked off the platform. And Sid a woman was in the midst, an Hispanic lady, sat there in the meeting and she was worshipping the Lord, worshipping the Lord, you know didn’t feel nothing better or nothing different but she was just worshipping the Lord. And nobody knew the woman; she went home and after she went home this is what happened. She went home that night and just worshipping the Lord, worshipping the Lord and she went to bed you know the way that she would normally go to bed and she woke up in the morning and she felt her leg it was no longer hard and she and she felt flesh. Now don’t ask me to explain, that happened. Ha-ha.
Sid: I’ll tell you something, we’re coming into that time where what you’re describing is going to be normal.
Renny: Now, I have to admit Sid now, I have seen all kinds of things teeth growing, gold teeth, that is old to me, that’s not even a miracle I think that’s good and wonderful but I tell you the honest truth Sid, did you hear me say that that shocked me cause I had never seen a whole limb before. I’d never seen a whole limb before and because of that miracle it kept us there another week. Now I’m going to be honest with you now, that I believe when we see certain miracles that’s far and few between I believe that the foretaste of the greater realm that’s coming.
Sid: And what do you see by the Spirit happening in 2011.
Renny: I see a turn coming to God’s people, I see a turn I see a turn; I see access being granted to realms that we had not walked in before and it’s going to be sovereign. People of God, for some people it’s literally just going to be where God just sovereignty does it. It is just going to just; God is going to just sovereignly do it. But there is coming a turnaround for God’s people. There’s a real turn around for God’s people. I really believe that, there is a Spirit of His grace, oh thank you Father, there is the Spirit of His grace being poured out on His people right now in that we are not coming out of the recession, now I’m speaking this to the people of God.
Sid: Right, the United States may not come out of it but we’re coming out of it; is that what you’re saying?
Renny: We are coming out of it Sid and I’ll tell you why we are coming out of it because God’s raised you up and that’s why I’ve got to speak a little bit about you Sid. Sid, God has raised you up and you’re significance is more prophetic than you realize; and I tell you why I say this. Because being that you are Jewish and I’m Jewish the Jews of God the children of Israel understand covenant. They rejected the kingdom but they know covenant, they have kept covenant. Isn’t that interesting? The church understands kingdom but don’t know covenant. And what we’re seeing is that when we, that’s why you say that the Lord’s raised you up to bring the One New Man together?
Renny: When that hits in the church and it fully explodes I believe the prosperity that the church should have, that what Israel has, I believe the church will have. So we’re living in…
Sid: That reminds me since its Passover week what did the Jewish people leave with when they left the slaves from Egypt. It made no sense at all, but they left with the wealth of the Kingdom.
Renny: Oh, my God, but Sid it goes back to that prophetic time, the portal was open, see what I’m trying to say. I’m telling you, this thing is real, if we could get your partners Sid to give special gifts during this time frame when that portal is opened. Do you have any idea what God is going to do for them?
Sid: If the portal is open, nothing is impossible.
Renny: Nothing is impossible but my God…
Sid: I mean, you’re able when the portal is open with the glory you can speak into it and it comes in the natural realm.
Renny: Oh totally, it comes in the natural realm, so God is looking for His people to show up at these appointment to meet him, meet him there, meet Him there, I mean my God, there is so many things that is tied to this. I really believe it. I mean it, this is resurrection this is Passover, oh we got to really understand.
Sid: But it’s also Resurrection too.
Renny: Yeah, it’s also Resurrection too and so God’s people have got to understand it’s a time of blessing. It’s a time of miracles, but it’s a time of blessing. It is a time of prosperity for us to deny the prosperity we are denying the former…we’re denying the reign of God. We got to come away with, we understand the covenants of the blessing and that’s what I’m saying Sid, I’m saying that it is so significant right now what God’s having you to do, it’s so significant, because right now the earth is in recession but God’s not in recession. I keep saying it His Name is El Shaddai; not El Poor O. When we understand that and Heaven and God’s not broke and He’s not I’ll file bankruptcy, oh the best is yet to come, but the portal is open. And the people of God need to step out by faith today and receive the blessing of God. Oh my God, my goodness, could you image that Sid, I know that you can see this because I know you are a prophetic man. Can you imagine when the portal is open on its own accord but it’s looking for a gift. Oh my God, oh my God, that speaks to the rest of the year for you. Oh my God, and that was part of the former reign and imagine dispensationally we’re the latter reign and if Israel left with wealth of Egypt under the former then what’s the latter reign going to be when the church understands the Glory of the Latter house?
Sid: Real quick because I’m interested tell me the most unusual story of what happened to you when you were translated.
Renny: Okay, the most unusual story was when I was asked to go to Africa, I was asked to go to Africa by my mother in the Lord by one of my mothers in the Lord, her name was CM Muirer she is dead now, this is when I was a young man by twenty-two years of age and she said to me “Renny I want you to come with me to Kenya with me” and I really wanted to go, but not at that time because we just had our first child. And so now this is what happened, she said, I said “If I get a sign from the Lord Momma, well I’ll go.” And so I went to bed that night and in the middle of my sleep I was sleeping and then I came out of sleep so to speak and I was speaking in a not an unknown tongue, and I knew if it was not an unknown because I know of the difference between an unknown and a known tongue and I was speaking in fluent Swahili and while I was speaking Swahili I remember being in places and I saw people before me and I saw myself with an interpreter next to me and I would start in English, but end up in Swahili and the interpreter would step aside. And I saw myself praying for the people and they were healed. Well, you know I could remember the places because you know; it is just prophetic I could remember as if it were yesterday. Well, the joke of it is when I went there six weeks later what would have been the 10th of March 1986 when I got there and they took me to places they said oh, Brother McLean, I said yes, the Lord bless you what are you doing here again. I said, what do you mean? You know and they said, oh you were here several weeks ago and that was almost six out of ten places I went or had that testimony of me.
Sid: You know, recently I had that same thing happen to me, has this happened many times to you Renny?
Renny: It’s happened two or three times to me and I’m expecting it to happen even more.
Sid: Yeah, things are speeding up…
Sid: My guest Gary Keesee has put together supernatural principles and how to apply them. It’s such a simplistic how to book, in fact Joyce Meyer says about it, “I believe the practical every day insight that Gary shares will educate and empower you to take control of your finances and discover the peace and financial freedom God desires for you.” So Gary, you can be supernatural and practical at the same time as long as you’re practical from a kingdom mentality verses a world mentality.
Gary: Exactly, you know we do live here, we are citizens of Heaven and the kingdom is in us, but we do live in the earth realm. So it’s vital that we understand both because any solution will involve operating within the laws that govern this realm as well as the laws that govern the kingdom of God. Especially when it comes to money, because God doesn’t have money every piece of money that you pick up today will have an earthly kingdom stamped on it. God can’t counterfeit it and He can’t steal it from someone, so we have to understand how money flows to the believer’s life in the earth realm.
Sid: And most people think that though pray and someone will knock on their door and leave a million dollars sitting there. That’s they’re understanding of the kingdom.
Gary: That is pretty much, well it’s actually kind of the perception that’s taught I think. I think people that…the church has done a great job teaching to give but I do think a lot of people give legally. You know, God will be mad if they don’t or they have the wrong perception of how money comes like you said. They think that it’s going to come, I call it mail box mentality and you and I both know a lot of people in the church world that have been waiting for a long time that have that mentality and they’re in the same financial place they were twenty years ago because they don’t understand how the kingdom operates and how money actually flows in the earth realm to the believer.
Sid: When the supernatural takes part; in fact you make this statement talking about the supernatural, giving opens the door legally for God to give you direction. What do you mean by that?
Gary: Well, this goes back to Genesis of course when Adam lost his legal dominion. You know in Luke Chapter 4, Satan tempting Jesus and he said if you will bow down and worship me I’ll give you all the glory, the splendor, and the authority of the kingdoms of the earth for they have been given to me. So Adam had that dominion, Hebrews Chapter 2, he gave it away. Satan, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians, is now the prince of the power of the air, the god of this world. Satan became the legal dominion if you will over the min (this area) and so Satan claims the wealth of the world is his. He claims that it is his, God can’t interfere with that, but what happens is when we give it changes kingdoms. Essentially what happens is that the only place of God’s government has legality in the earth realm is in us and what we bring under the dominion of the kingdom of God. One great example is Peter, James and John’s fishing story in Luke Chapter 5. Fished all night, caught nothing, worked all night professional fisherman, then Jesus comes along and borrow their boats, comes back in and then tells them to fish the deep water and they catch so many fish that the nets about break, the boats about sink and of course as a spiritual scientist I want to know what happened because I could sure use a boat load of fish you know, essentially provision. Well, if you follow the story, when they gave Jesus the boats the business changed governments. When they voluntarily gave it to Jesus, they didn’t know that this was happening, it actually changed governments which gave God the legality then to give a word of knowledge into the earth realm and tell and Jesus said the at the fish were over there in the deep water and they caught so many fish that they couldn’t contain them. When we give money, when we operate in the earth realm with God’s kingdom as 2nd Corinthians says, God gives seed to the sower. Of course we could say whose seed is it, it’s God He’s providing it and as we sow it it changes governments and it essentially God can multiply it back to us. But a lot of people don’t understand this changing of governments or the dominion of the kingdom of God. And when our place Sid, illustrates this in the story of Potipher, you know Potipher put Joseph in charge of his stuff and the Bible says the blessing of the Lord came on everything Potipher had both in the field and his home and with Joseph in charge he didn’t have to worry about anything. So they could ask, how did the blessing of God come on this Egyptian man that didn’t even know God? Because it says in Genesis 39 verse 5 that one day he put Joseph in charge. Well, what he didn’t know was when he put Joseph in charge his stuff, his things changed governments. They came under the government, the dominion of God and then the blessing of God came on his stuff and of course that refers there to Proverbs chapter 10 verse 22, “The blessing , the covenant of God brings wealth adds no sorrow with it.” And of course, that sorrow is referring to the earth curse system where Adam was left having to run, sweat and toil after everything he had in life. So there’s a kingdom that functions and when we give we can go through a lot of stories in the Bible, but people say, oh that pastor of that church just wants my money. Well, that’s not true, see what’s actually happening is God is encouraging us to participate with his government in the earth realm. And as we participate, as we give in faith with his government in mind his kingdom purposes, that gives God the legality to then move in and help us proper by identifying a word of knowledge, that could be business idea..
Sid: And, by the way let me just let me interject something here because the thought that’s coming to me is so many people have heard terminology of “plant your seed, give me a thousand dollars and you’re going” it’s almost like a heavenly slot machine, heavenly lottery there’s truth in there but there’s something wrong.
Gary: Yes, your right there is something wrong with that and I despise that kind of misunderstanding. And this portrayal of how the kingdom of God operates and so many people have become disillusioned and frustrated over what they are left to believe is that God did not do His part. When actually, you know if an airplane didn’t take off because it wasn’t moving we would know now because in the law of lift that we have to have some speed to get it moving. Because we understand the laws and when people don’t understand the laws of the kingdom they just blame God. Listen, God’s kingdom works every time.
Sid: And do you know what excites me so much, Gary is when you take up offerings after you have taught how the kingdom operates, not just for people to give you money but so that they can multiply their money so that not only can they take care of their needs but expand the kingdom, help widows and orphans and evangelistic operations. Tell me about the offerings you take up where people see a blue haze?
Gary: Well, this surprised me Sid, when God began to teach me things I had never heard any of this before and this was back in the days when we are desperate and we were asking God for solutions. And He began to teach me these principals and show me how they operated. Well, I didn’t tell anyone this stuff and we weren’t pasturing at the time, over the years we got out of debt and those stories are amazing of what happened to us. But I didn’t really go out and tell people these things, I just kept a journal, I had learned these things and then many years later, fifteen years or so after we had developed the understanding we had. He said, “I want you to begin to teach people these things.” We had of course businesses that taught some of these principals but never ministry and we began to go out and tell people how the kingdom operated and specially how giving should be done and how the kingdom works through our giving and how money flows to the believer. The first time I had a meeting where I had taught this I was taken off guard because when we took the offering up this had been after five days of teaching in Albania where people were very impoverish, they had no hope. There answer was to go to Greece, leave the country, find jobs somewhere else. But I taught these principals there for five days and the fifth day they took up an offering. The anointing came in that place in amazing way, people were dancing, and shouting and like you said a blue haze came in that place. I mean it wasn’t kind of the anointing that you may feel when you are praying or that you are preaching or teaching but it was like the very throne room of God. This blue haze came there and we just…
Sid: Not only did Gary see it but when this happens others see it. Just briefly, what happens to some of these people, what were some of the reports that you heard.
Gary: Well they began to create businesses, they understood what happened, the kingdom in them could produce their future, they didn’t have to run to other countries.
Sid: Whoops were out of time.
Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah, and as I’ve been explaining for the last couple of days that I have been mentoring you all of these years in the best of the best to grow in the supernatural so you can really fulfill your destiny in the end times. But if you don’t understand an end time Bible prophecy, I don’t care how much power you walk in you are going to miss it. And you understand end time Bible prophecy and you don’t walk in the power of God you won’t fulfill your full destiny. You’ll miss you full destiny and that’s why I have Walid Shoebat on the telephone. Because Walid was born in Bethlehem and Walid was trained to be a Muslim terrorist. And because of the truth in the Bible when compared with the Koran he had to choose Jesus, because truth was more important to him than family or anything this world had to offer. And he has had debates with Christians on the end times because his paradigm is so different than what we’ve been taught here in America over the last thirty some years. Now when you have your debates Walid what…how do they usually end up?
Walid: Well, they usually end up with the open heart Christian coming to our paradigm.
Sid: Now for those that aren’t familiar with what you’re are teaching and of course I’ve got your 500 page and your four DVDs on the subject. Would you briefly explain what is the usual traditional paradigm? And what is yours and the difference between the two.
Walid: Well, the traditional paradigm says that the Anti-Christ will be some homosexual, who’d be an atheist who will come from thru the European Union and the Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon. It is a western view that is a modern view, by the way. My paradigm is saving that if we look at the literal references in the Bible of the nations that God deals with including the nations that Christ deals with, they are all Islamic. Then my paradigm looks at the issue of the Roman Empire because, North Africa is part of the Roman Empire and Turkey is part of Roman Empire. By the way both of which is mentioned in the Bible in which Christ deal with on the day of the Lord; which tells us that Islam is involved in the unfolding of the end times. So this is why I wrote “God’s War on Terror,” it’s probably the most extensive research done in history on the issue of the Bible when it come to eschatology and Islamic Eschatology which basically matches when the Anti-Christ is mentioned in the Bible.
Sid: I was just going to ask you about that because it is so specific. I’m going to tell you something, when people read your book and when they watch these DVD’s there won’t be fussiness about the end times; and they definitely won’t have the wrong paradigm. It’s the whole Bible is going to be opened up to them once they have these keys. So tell me about the comparison between the Christian Anti-Christ and the Moslem messiah; they seem to match from your book.
Walid: They match perfectly; if you look into the Anti-Christ of the Bible in Daniel it tells us he will basically confirm a covenant for seven years. In Islam the Mahadee will confirm a covenant for seven years as well. In the Bible it tells us he is Lucifer the Anti-Christ will be Lucifer embodying a man. Mohammed, the prophet of Muslim clearly says that the Mahadee will have the most beautiful of all angels in him. In fact in the Arabic language the Hadee is very clear.——- Mahadee is the most beautiful of all angels, upon him is the cloaks of light. When we look at where he settles in Islam he settles on the Temple Mount. He makes a covenant with one of the children of our own; actually what the Bible says the Anti-Christ will enter into the temple and he will make a covenant with Israel. So it’s pretty clear both the Anti-Christ and the Mahadee will deny the Trinity.
Sid: You know as I read your book I see that Muslims are being led to the slaughter so to speak by their own religion.
Walid: Absolutely. They are led to believe to deny the Trinity, to deny the crucifixion, to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ, which matches perfectly with…
Sid: But wait a second, I have a friend that tells me he has a Muslim friend and this Muslim friend is so close to receiving Jesus because he believes in Jesus.
Walid: Ha ha, well they believe in a Jesus, but it is not the definition of Jesus in the Bible at all. They deny the crucifixion, they deny the Sonship, they deny the Trinity. And in 1 John 2:22 the Bible tells us very clearly who is the liar, he who denies that Jesus is the Christ, he is the man Anti-Christ that denies the Father and the Son. So there we have it, the Bible gives us the definition of Anti-Christ. Many in the west think that Anti-Christ is someone who claims to be Jesus when in reality he is not. That’s not Biblical; the Bible says the Anti-Christ comes to be as an anti against Christ; to deny the very essence of who he is.
Sid: Now you have a revelation from the Prophet Micah the Fifth Chapter verse 2 to 6 about the seven shepherds in the last days; and I have never seen this before but tell me about that.
Walid: Well, it is rare that you see a discussion on the seven shepherds in the Sunday school. When we look at Micah 5 it tells us about the birth of Christ in Bethlehem, but many western Christians don’t look at the rest of the verses that talks about the Assyrian which is the Anti-Christ when he enters into the land of Israel. And how God will raise seven shepherds and eight princely men and they will destroy the Assyrian. In other words those nations led by the shepherds will destroy the Assyrian. This by the way is confirmed to us in Ezekiel 28. Ezekiel 28 talks about the prince of Tyre.
Sid: So these will be seven that…but let me get this straight, so these will be seven nations that will team up together to destroy the Anti-Christ. Do you know who those nations are?
Walid: Well, we could be very suspicious of who the nations are or kind of allude to them because it says that the nations that will basically pluck him out in Ezekiel 31 will be coming from the ends of the earth. So from the Middle Eastern perspective the ends of the earth, you can see Australia, the United States, nations you know like you know the United Kingdom so we could elude to the Western nations, the Christian nations which God will basically purify in the end when he comes. In fact, in verse seven in Ezekiel 28 it talks about these nations and in verse eight it says very clearly that they shall throw you down into the pit. Who are the they? It goes back to verse seven, behold therefore I will bring strangers against you, the most terrible of the nations. Terrible doesn’t mean awful, it means terrible in battle, the most terrible, the most powerful nations in the world will come against the Anti-Christ and they will throw him into the pit! No one can argue against those verses. They are very clear that God will raise up nations against the Anti-Christ!
Sid: Now tell me about where we hear in Revelation the Seven Mountain and most people think these are the Seven Hills of Rome, but you have a totally different understanding.
Walid: Well, if they are literal mountains then when did five mountains fall? Because if you look at the Revelation it is pretty clear, five have fallen; one is and the other has not yet come. Hello, this is speaking about the time of the Romans when John was writing these revelations. Five have fell, one is, that is the Roman Empire and the other has not yet come; the seventh one. And it is the seventh one that the Bible is focused on and also it says this seventh one will be an eighth, hello it is very clear. Which nation conquered the Roman Empire? Of course the Roman Empire cease to exist in the West and continued to exist in Byzantium that is today Turkey, the eastern leg of the Roman Empire; there we have it. And so that was bruised by who? It was bruised by the Muslims; the Muslims took the mantle from number six when the Byzantium fell in 1451 by Mohammed the Second and Islam took over the Roman Empire. In fact Islam defeated the Roman, the Persian and the Babylonian.
Sid: Listen, they can get all of this in your book, but once you’ve literally cracked a Bible code which opens the whole end times scenario to make so much sense, and if for God’s children it doesn’t make sense who shall it make sense for? Tell me about your revelation on the number 666.
Walid: Well, we must conclude from the Bible what the Bible says about 666 and the number of the beast. The Bible in Revelation Chapter 13 it has three flavors. The mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Well, first of all we have to understand what name means. Name doesn’t literally mean a name of a person, because we can look at verses in the Bible in which it says clearly His name shall be called Emmanuel which is God with us. But Jesus’ name is not Emmanuel; it’s talking about our creed that God came to us. Same thing with the Anti-Christ he has a name, a creed, it’s a blasphemous creed. The followers of the Anti-Christ will put that creed in a badge because the Greek term Charisma simply means the badge of servitude. They will put this badge on their foreheads, exactly what we see Muslims do. When we come to the three Greek letters, they resemble Arabic letters. The Arabic letters, clearly if you look at it in the Arabic and so far no one was able to refute that it says in the name of Allah. With the symbol of the two swords…
Sid: So the 666 in Arabic means in the name of Allah!
Sid: My, my goodness! Do you realize the revelation your hearing right now? I urge you to understand, listen if you don’t think we are in end times, have you looked at what’s going on in the Middle East recently?
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah but I believe that what the Spirit of God is saying right now is this is the moment for you to get closer to God than you ever had in your life. And the best catalyst for you to get closer to God, I mean He says that “If you draw close to me I will draw close to you. The best catalyst I know is worship and that’s why I’m so excited to introduce to you Nic and Rachael Billman and in particular their brand new worship CD called “The Least of These” recorded before an audience and the feedback we get on this brand new CD is people experience the presence of God. They literally feel God’s love flowing through them. Many hear the wind of the Spirit. Others hear angels, some hear supernatural instruments; many people get healed when they hear this music all over the world. And Nic the two of you have ministered a great deal in Brazil and you are getting ready to make that your base right now where you are going to live. Tell us that most of us are in America and aren’t use to seeing eleven year old transvestites and prostitutes out in the street. Paint me a picture of what the street is like in Brazil.
Nic: Well, it’s interesting because Brazil is a great nation, it is the fifth largest GDP in the world and yet a third of their nation live in abject poverty and so we’ve been on streets during the day it is just a market it doesn’t look any different than a street in the US and then at night around midnight or so there are prostitutes transvestites, drug dealers, drug addicts all over the streets. We’ve talked to girls as young as eleven years old on the streets, boys the same way. We’ve talked to those that started in that industry at six years old and it is just such a place and awesome place to find Jesus as we have had some of just the greatest encounters with people on the streets of Brazil.
Sid: And one of the statements you made is that the Lord showed you that if you don’t love lose that are around us and care for them then you don’t love the Lord?
Nic: Yeah, because as you look in Matthew 25 Jesus just talks about, he identifies himself as the least of these, and he says when I was hungry you fed me, when I was thirsty, when I was sick and in that verse if you read through it He actually unties our blessing, our righteousness and our inheritance into caring for the least of these and I really believe and feel like if you love God and you have Jesus as your Lord and Savior then you are going to love the things that He loves; you are going to love the people that He loves and you are going to take on the character of God, not just the title of God as a Christian.
Sid: Tell me one person that you ministered to in Brazil, make them real to us.
Nic: We had kind a separation of two different things that happened within a day from each other in our first trip to Brazil in 2008. I prayed for a little boy who is in line for healing in a church and he was born 80% deaf in both ears and I really felt the gift of faith for this boy and I got down on my knees and I just looked him in the eyes and I just said Julio Jesus loves him and his eyes popped open and he jumped into his Mother’s arms and she whispered in his ears, I love you and he whispered back, I love you Momma and his ears were totally healed. No speech impediment or anything and it was a very very powerful night. The next day I look out my hotel window and I see a boy that’s on the streets, he is actually on the cover of the CD that we just put out and he’s laying there and I just had this heart to go out and spend time with him, but I couldn’t find a translator.
Sid: Your heart has to go out when you see that picture.
Nic: yeah he’s fifteen years old, a story that I found out later was that he was abandoned by his parents and I just spent an hour with him without a translator just in fellowship, just in communion with him and then a translator was able to come help me and we went out and bought him some shoes. And after I gave them to him we spent more time with him and the next day he came to show me his bed, where he slept and he crawled up into this dumpster and laid down in this old terrible trash that jus t smelled so bad and that is where he slept and he was so proud to show me that he had a place to sleep that night; and the Lord was just showing me, you know Nic both of these things are worship unto me both of these things are pleasing; because in one hand there is a miracle and someone was healed and in then in another you acted as Jesus and you were compassionate to the poor, to the least of these. And there are no difference to the heart of God.
Sid: You were telling me that many times you’ll pray for someone and they’re not healed and rather than walk away you just love on them.
Sid: Explain that.
Nic: Well a lot of times we will spend time with someone and you get a word of knowledge for their healing and it doesn’t happen and it’s very easy for us to then say we’ll just keep believing and let them go on their way. But we tend to really try to love on them and we’ve seen things that when people come up for healing, and they don’t receive healing but we just begin to show the love of God to them, to love on them and they leave with a totally different heart, a totally different attitude and the bottom line is that God is always after your heart first and for most before everything else. So that’s really our heart’s desire is to administer the Father’s heart.
Sid: Well, I’m so pleased to be releasing your brand new CDs, its two CDs and the album is called “The Least of These” and tell me about the song, “Come Find Me.”
Nic: Yeah, this song was a spontaneous song that we sang one night, it comes right out of Matthew 25 and it was a vision I had had of all these churches that were alive crying out for God and we want to see Your face, come to us God we want to hear Your voice. And then I saw the streets of Brazil because that’s where my heart is but I believe it applies anywhere where there is drug addicts and there were transvestites and prostitutes and the widow and the poor children on the streets and the churches were all alive and there are people that are on the streets and God says come find me. So the church is crying out, we want to see you, then God says then come find me from the lost, from the poor.
Excerpt of “Come Find Me”
Nic: I was abandoned and you gave me a home, I was wounded and you healed me love. Just stare into the eyes the child that is left alone and there you’ll find me, and there you’ll find me. Just open up your arms to hold the least of these and there you’ll find me, and there you’ll find me, come find me, come find me, come find me.
Rachael: Come find me in the dark; come find me in the dark.
Nic: Come find me church, come find me run, come find me.
Rachael: Come find me in the dark, come find me, I am life, I am light, no darkness of night, I am light, I am light, I am light, no darkness of night.
Nic: Come, find me, come find me, come find me come find me…