sidroth on March 19th, 2014


Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Joan Hunter; you’re probably familiar with her parent’s Charles and Francis Hunter, known as the Happy Hunters. Joan was privileged to minister for over 30 years with their ministry. She’s seen every miracle imaginable, and miracles are normal, healing is normal. She has written a book, and we have offered and read many books on healing, but Joan I have to tell you your approach is different really than any I have ever seen. How did you come up with this approach where you come up with each disease, you explain exactly what’s going on, how to minister, how exactly to pray; even more important than that, why is it so important to be so specific, why can’t you just say, and you said this earlier in the week you put your hand on someone you say “Jesus” and they’re healed and it happens many times. Why did you get better results when you’re more specific?

Joan: The greatest example I have of that is when… I have 4 children they’re now grown, 4 daughters they’re now grown, and if I went into the game and I said to all 4 girls “I need the living room vacuumed,” they probably would not respond, but if I went in there and I said “Charity I need the living room vacuumed.” Charity would get up she would go in the other room and she would vacuum. Me being specific to my children I got a greater response. The same thing goes the more direct we can be to the name of the disease, the location of the disease, it’s like a Holy Ghost laser going in and the name of phlebitis is lower than the name of Jesus. When we can direct it toward the power of God… the power of God directed right into the person specifically for that disease then at that point… you have greater results I mean you have a greater result when the laser hits it right on the nose as in comparison to the surrounding areas.

Sid: Okay, on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about an amazing chapter you have in your book called “The Immune System and Electrical and Magnetic Frequencies.” We know many people are selling these mattresses and these things that go on the body to get things… the patterns right. Talk a little bit about that, and what are some of the diseases that are a result. By the way we are not selling mattresses praise God! We’re telling people how to pray in the name of Jesus and see the same results. So explain it briefly, and tell me what types of diseases people might have as a result of this.

Joan: Many times there are unexplainable diseases, or untreatable diseases. That right there is a good start. There are 2 main things that bring on diseases, number 1 is stress. Eighty-five percent of the people that go to the doctors go as a result of stress. Stress itself can affect the electrical and magnetic frequencies in your body, thus it will show in pains here, pains there, diabetes, heart problems; if your body is in harmony and balance in the area of electrical and magnetic no disease can stay in your body.

Sid: What about things like insomnia, could it affect that?

Joan: Oh bi-polar, insomnia, I mean there’s probably 50 diseases in here that are a direct result of the imbalance of our body either electrically, magnetically, or chemically. Cause the food just doesn’t have the quality of the vitamins it used to. So we can even be obese and yet starving ourselves to death.

Sid: Okay, let’s just take that specific situation. If that is the root cause of the particular sickness that someone has what do we do about it?

Joan: It’s a very simple prayer, it’s very easy and we emphasize that throughout all of our teachings in the miracle services and everything. Once again if I can do it you can do it. This book has just outlined it so easily that anybody can do it. When you pray for the electrical and magnetic frequencies in a body to come into perfect harmony and balance then no disease can stay in your body, and it’s very very simple.

Sid: Now I want you to do this for real and I’m gonna pray along with you, and I want everyone listening to pray along with us.

Joan: It talks about there are many many locations in the body where that the immune system and the lymph system goes, and this is all explained through diagram and everything. It is important that we pray for the immune system to be restored.

Sid: Give me one very brief example, a specific person you prayed for this way and they got healed.

Joan: Fibromyalgia, I could oh probably a hundred people that were healed of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, sleep apnea, and…

Sid: Sleep apnea?  I always thought that was a physical thing.

Joan: Well all the diseases are physical brought on by emotional, and when a lot of times when there is stress in the body it will shut down the proper electrical and magnetic frequencies in our body.

Sid: Okay, let’s pray.

Joan: Okay. Father in the name of Jesus I command all the electrical and magnetic frequencies in everybody’s body who is listening to this program to be in harmony and balance in Jesus name. Amen, that’s how simple it is.

Sid: My goodness you sure you don’t want to get a little more complex?  [Laughing]

Joan: No because then I wouldn’t be able to do it. [Laughing]

Sid: I mean you have prayers here even… marriage. Tell me about one person that prayed a prayer in this book, or you prayed for a person in this book. Tell me what happened to their marriage.

Joan: We just prayed over them, and we prayed in addition to what’s in the book is that they would be sensitive in a greater way to each other’s needs, and that their ears be open, and God has healed their marriage. I can’t even begin to tell you…

Sid: Alright but what about if one spouse reads the book and is willing, but the other spouse is not. Would it help their marriage?

Joan: Yes! That’s on the one of putting your, I don’t remember exactly what chapter is at this point, but laying your family in different situations on the altar of God. What happens is so often we try to become… we want to be God’s agents, but we become more than that. In the process of laying our children on the altar, laying our spouse on the altar giving them, for example, I lay my husband on the altar “Father he is Yours I’ve tried to fix him it didn’t work and in Jesus name I thank you that You’re gonna fix him. Father I thank you for fixing me, and I’m gonna take care of me and You’re gonna take care of him. I’m gonna be the best Godly wife there is, and Father it’s up to you to change him because I can’t and I’ve tried.”

Sid: Okay you have a chapter that intrigues me immensely because I know that is what I want God to do for me. That is walk in compassion. None of these other motives that might be in there when I pray for the sick, I want to pray for the sick because my heart is breaking for them. I know this can only come from God. Do you pray for people to be able to walk in God’s compassion?

Joan: Yes I do. When I go around the country I do anointing services and I pray over people, and I pray for them to walk in the anointing the transference of the anointing…

Sid: Can you do this over the radio right now and over the tape?

Joan: I can sure pray, you know, it’s God that does the anointing.

Sid: Yes, but it will be just as effective.

Joan: I have no doubt on that one.

Sid: Okay let’s go for it.

Joan: See the anointing depends on your receptivity. For those that want to walk in the blessings of God, want to walking in the anointing, the anointing is there.

Sid: Alright our time is slipping away.

Joan: Okay, Father right now in the name of Jesus, and everybody put their hands on their eyes. Father I pray right now in the name of Jesus that their eyes be enlightened to the people that are around them that are sick. Put your hand on your heart, Father right now in the name of Jesus I pray that they have a heart of compassion towards those who they see and that you will love through them in Jesus name. Father I thank You that their mind is anointed, their ears are open, and Father that their hands are anointed as they lay hands on the sick, they shall be healed. Father in Jesus name let Your anointing fall on all ears that are listening in Jesus name. Amen.

Sid: Amen. Well I’m expecting that there’s a whole army that has just been raised up that are going to be doing exactly what you’re doing.


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sidroth on March 10th, 2014


Sid: My guest Jennifer LeClaire and she’s News Editor with Charisma Magazine. Jennifer we read in the Bible all you need is a mustard seed of faith that’s the littlest, tiniest seed there is and you can move mountains.  But the truth of the matter is there is a disconnect most Christians don’t have their prayers answered, why?

Jennifer:  Well because there’s a misconception that all you need is a little faith and yeah all you need is a little but it’s got to be pure faith.  You know the Bible talks about two types of faith: Great Faith, and Little Faith. Just some quick examples, you know we see Abraham had great faith, David had great faith, Joshua, Caleb had great faith.  In the New Testament we find the centurion had great faith, the woman whose daughter was possessed by a devil; Jesus talks about them having great faith.  But what I find really interesting is that His own disciples on more than one occasion He rebuked them, or He called them out corrected them for having little faith.  And the bottom line is that they had the Living Word with them; and yet they had little faith.  We have the Word of God, we have the Old Testament, the New Testament, we have the stories of the heroes of the faith and too often we have little faith. That’s because we’ve allowed doubt and unbelief to creep in and contaminate our faith.  We’ve allowed fear to contaminate our faith and our job as believers is to believe and we need to cultivate pure faith.  We need to cultivate mustard seed faith but it used to be pure faith.  And we can do that by mediating on the Word of God, I mean there is many different ways to do that but it can be done.  We don’t need mountain moving faith to move mountains, we just need pure faith.  In other words, we don’t need faith the size of a mountain to move a mountain we just need pure faith.

Sid: And now you used the word that a lot of people hear but they don’t understand how do you personally mediate on the Word of God?

Jennifer:  That is a really good question because the New Age movement has tried to take on those same terminology and a lot of people in the Body of Christ they sort of think meditation is taboo but it’s not. The Bible uses it; Joshua in the book of Joshua we see that God said to Joshua “Meditate on this Word day and night and then you will find good success, you’ll make your way prosperous.”  And if you look at that word mediate in the Bible you’re going to see that it means to chew on, to roll it over in your mind, to confess it; to mutter it.  And that’s what we need to be doing we need to be speaking the Word out of our mouth.  One way that I like to do things is I’ll take a scripture and I’ll take just a bite of it at a time so if the scripture is “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”  I’ll go through that scripture a number of times and begin to emphasize one word each time.  So I’ll say “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”  Then I’ll say “I CAN do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” And by emphasizing each of those words it just resonates in my spirit it just feeds my spirit, it just builds up my spirit and I pretty soon I memorize that scripture, I begin confessing it when something comes up against me when doubt comes up against me, unbelief, when fear begins to speak to my heart to speak to my mind.  It just automatically comes out of my spirit “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” or whatever the word is that’s applicable to the situation because the Holy Spirit really does put us in remembrance of the Word.  He really does instruct our hearts but we have to put the word in our heart if we want the Word to come out of our heart when the pressure comes on.

Sid: And most people have the word in their mind, and we talked earlier about this mental assent; they absolutely agree with the Word of God but it’s not in their spirit.  I know that by meditating on the word especially the way you teach it, it will get in their spirit because if it was just in their mind no wonder it doesn’t work.

Jennifer:  And you can’t just read it you know you got to have the word in front of your eyes, in your ears and in your mouth.  The Bible says that “Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.”  I think personally in my life I’ve seen that there’s nothing more powerful than when I hear myself speaking the word of God.

Sid:  Let me just say this, doctors have stated that if you tell a lie long enough you won’t even remember it’s a lie; you will think it’s the truth that’s the way we’re built. So how much more if you tell the truth long enough to yourself?

Jennifer:  That’s right that’s what so important what we say about ourselves and we talked about self-doubt earlier we’ve got to be saying what God says about us. And I really think that’s the first step is getting rooted and grounded in who you are in Christ and then speaking from that place because when you know who you are and you know what belongs to you faith is just it just comes.

Sid: Now, just out of curiosity you’re a single mom did you teach these principals to your daughter and how did it play out in her life?

Jennifer:  I do, I have taught them to my daughter she goes to a church that also teaches these same principals and it has worked out in her life.  She’s a very talented musician, last year she was second chair in the band and she really had her heart to become the best and to become the first chair. And that’s really unheard of because she’s one of the younger kids in the group, but it turns out that as she believed the Lord and as she practiced; now it’s not all about confess we’ve got to do our part you know we’ve got to take action.  And she practiced and she confessed and she stuck with it and believed God and now she’s going to be first chair.  That’s just a small story of a teenager’s faith but she has seen other times where God has…

Sid: Well, let me just ask you this how about in the health arena these young kids get sick all the time what’s going on with your daughter.

Jennifer:  Oh no she doesn’t ever get sick she walks in divine health she had her shots when she was five years old and she’s been only to the doctor one other time since then.  Honestly you know we take our vitamins then we confess the word and I think we can do natural things and we can do spiritual things and the combination of that sort of wisdom it can produce miracles in your life.

Sid: Now in your book that we’re making available “Faith Magnified” or “How to be Free from Doubtaholism.”  Tell me about that word doubtaholism.

Jennifer:  Yeah I believe that doubt is like a spiritual disease it’s comfortable to alcoholism and that’s sort of a play on words from that perspective but it’s debilitating.  I mean just like the alcohol debilitates you it causes confusion and depression and fear and anxiety and all of these horrible things; so does doubtaholism it produces instability in your life, double-mindedness, back tracking and inability to receive the wisdom of God.  These are all the opposite of faith, I mean God has given us a measure of faith, He has not given us doubt, He has not given us fear, He has not given us unbelief.

Sid:  Well, what you teach in your book is how to break the cycle of unanswered prayer and if that’s you I would love for you to teach a little bit on the 12 steps, so that people can get rid of doubt and unbelief and be able to have this great faith.

Jennifer:  It all starts with admitting that you have a problem; I mean really the first step to getting doubt out of your life is to see it for what it really is.  And honestly no condemnation intended here but it’s a sin to doubt the Word of God; the Bible says “Without faith it’s impossible to please God.”  But it also says “That with faith all things are possible.” So we have to see that when we’re doubting God’s Word you know we’re in the wrong.  God is never in the wrong; when our prayers are not answered it’s not God’s problem it’s often times we have a problem.  Oftentimes it’s a lack of faith or a lack of the pure faith that we were talking about in our lives.  So that’s really the first step is really recognizing it and that’s the problem is so many times we don’t recognize that really it’s doubt there’s doubt in our hearts.  And of course we don’t want to admit it because you know after all who wants to admit that they don’t believe God’s Word especially in the Christian World you know we want to look good without friends but we need to humble ourselves and we need to say “You know what, I’m having a real struggle here with this doubt, I can see it I can identify it I hear these thoughts in my head and I want to get rid of it and that’s the first step.”  So once you’ve admitted your problem you need to confess the fault you know the Bible says “Confess your fault one to another so that you might be healed.”  And we also need to confess it to God and we need to confess it to our peers if we’re having a struggle, if we really need to help we need to get reinforcement. But we also need to confess it to God then let God; “God you know what I haven’t believed Your word I’ve doubted You in this area and I’m sorry.”  And we need to confess that to God and Bible says “When we confess our faults, when we confess our sins He’s faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness.”  And that’s really the key we’ve got to be up front; look God knows if there’s doubt in your heart He knows and so it’s not a secret to Him. We have to confess it it’s a spiritual principal of confessing our sins, confessing our faults that we might be healed that we might be delivered.  That’s where true healing and deliverance begins from this thing called doubt and unbelief.

Sid: When someone sits under your teaching and goes through these 12 steps and they get rid of doubt and unbelief, what happens to their prayer life?

Jennifer:  Well they begin to see prayer answered it’s almost like unclogging a clogged drain, I mean just lets the faith flow freely they begin to get confidence.  I mean it begins with little prayers and that they build their faith and they see prayer answers in small areas they begin to pray for even greater things and they begin to build greater faith. That’s really what it’s all about in God’s Kingdom faith.

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sidroth on March 6th, 2014


Sid: The Messiah said “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.”  My guests Betsy and Chester Kylstra were just like you they were born again, they loved God with all of their heart, but there were blockages that were just…and they didn’t even know where they came from.  So God supernaturally began revealing keys to them and over the years they so streamlined this.  But what I’m curious about Betsy and Chester is how did you originally get the revelation for teaching on identity?

Chester:  Yes, it was an amazing thing we had actually been ministering now for several years using the integrated approach in tremendous changes in people lives.  One day we were ministering to this woman who was particularly bound up. We were getting ready to do the deliverance and we’d done the first three areas and we were ready to remove demons and I say to her “We see a real powerful combination here of shame and of fear and of control and we don’t really know how they’re working together and yet it’s clear that they are to really keep you trapped.”  And she looks at me with this sort of innocent face and says “How do they work together?”  And my first thought was “Lady I just told you I don’t know why are you asking me?”  And the next thing I heard come out of my mouth was the explanation of how they work together and I quickly turn to Betsy and say “Right that down, I think God just showed us something.”  But basically through abandonment the devil is able to bring into our lives the questioning “Who am I?”  and “What’s the matter with me?” “Why am I different from other people?”  My different was being a little kid with no father, and all the victim that came with that, so…

Sid: Or it could have been an absent father and mother would have had the same results I believe.

Chester:  Yes, we call it emotional abandonment, when someone grows up in a family where they literally got a father and mother but there is no connection there, really on their own.

Sid: Explain to me what…just define shame, fear, and control.

Chester:  Yeah, we’ll it is an identity issue as you started out, shame says there’s something a matter with me.  We use a phrase it says to us “You are,” it always talks in first person, “I am uniquely and fatally flawed,” I’m unique I’m the only one like this in the whole world, and fatal means I can’t do anything about it.”

Sid: And you know what?  People keep these secrets they think they’re the only ones with these problems and I heard someone say once “Our secrets keep us sick.”

Chester:  Yeah, true because how can our parents understand and I’m the only one like this in the whole world.  And of course a little kid doesn’t know that their parents have the same issue you know and they’re struggling with it.  So it’s a lie of the enemy to keep us isolated from each other and I must say it works quite well.  So that sort of shame uniquely and fatally flawed it’s about who I am as a person. We like to contrast that with guilt because people tend to use the two words synonymously but guilt is…

Sid: Oh, I thought we Jewish people had the corner on the market with guilt; have you ever heard of Jewish guilt? (Laughing)

Betsy:    We have yes.

Chester:    We have yes, we’ve  ministered to it Sid and many people. Guilt is “I did something wrong”  where shame is “I am wrong.” It’s an identity, so anyway being human God has designed for relationship first with Him and then with each other the fear has given place then.  Like “What if people find out that I’m uniquely and fatally flawed, what if they find out I’m different from every body and I got all these problems?”  And we’ve found that it doesn’t matter what the difference is even have red hair and everybody else has black or vice a verse it doesn’t make any  difference what the difference is if there is a difference shame can be given a place.  So the fear arises up it says “What if they find out I’ll lose all my relationships nobody will accept me?”  And so we go into control and give it place to control our situation and when we start out on Monday you were talking about the walls I erected that was part of my control system to keep from being hurt more. You put walls up so we don’t have to interact with other people and they don’t see who we really are.  And we paint a happy face on the outside of the wall and say “This is who I really am.”  You know we go to church “How are you doing?”  Oh, I’m fine, of course there’s no real time to get into it and we go into church but it’s like we wear a mask.

Sid: We’re actors on a stage.

Chester:  Actors on a stage and control can take on lots of different forms, huge number of variety of forms but it’s all shame, all fear, all control.  Like I knew a woman who would invite the family over but she would put name cards out and be very careful not to have anybody sit next to each other who could get into a fight, or who might be angry at each other.  Because then she would be a failed hostess and not be protecting her family.  So control can be what we call nice control, or you’re protecting other people from each other or it can be aggressive mean control.  Or it can be passive and turn inward and keep a person from even engaging in life because the fear of doing something wrong or their inadequacies being exposed.

Sid: People that say “I have a fear of speaking in public.”  They could have tremendous gifts of teaching by God but they’re so sabotaged they’ll never be able to walk into their gifting.

Chester:  Yeah, amen. We say “We need to get healed so we can fulfill the destiny that God’s got before us.”

Sid: Now you talk a lot about ungodly beliefs, tell me a bit about Tim.

Chester:  Okay Tim is in our chapter on ungodly beliefs and he was quite an interesting person, Betsy’s got a word on this.

Betsy:   Well, this was a young man who we met when he had just had a cocaine overdose and he had been gay and was trying to….

Chester:  He was gay.

Betsy:  He had HIV he was HIV positive. A lot of ungodly beliefs about hating himself and that he was trapped and that he would never get free and that his life was just finished.  And this is really an amazing story, as we just felt like the Lord wanted us to lay our hands on his shoulder and pray in the Holy Spirit for him.  The Lord came and changed his identity and he opened his eyes and he began to weep and he said “For the first time in my life I feel like a man.”  Now after that happened his ungodly beliefs about “I hate myself, I’m trapped, etc…

Chester: He had financial issues too.

Betsy:  Financial issues.

Chester: He didn’t think God was going to take care of him.

Betsy:  That God wouldn’t take care of him and those beliefs changed in that encounter and as we confronted him and said “Now you held all these beliefs.”  He repented of those and then he just said “God what do you want me to believe?”  And the Lord gave him the truth about himself, his life, and his circumstances. A very interesting thing about this man Tim, we went to see him when he was dying of AIDS and he was in a home for AIDS patients.  He said to us “Because I know who Yeshua is I am going to declare who he is every day of my life that I have left.”  And that was about twenty years ago, what happened was that little by little God just healed him and he’s still alive and we still hear from him.  So it was just not only God as he aligned himself with God’s truth and changed his belief system.  God’s physical healing took place in his life as well.

Sid: And that’s what I was just going to say, you’re finding people when they take care of these four areas which you call an Integrated Approach, the Sins of the Fathers, and the Curses, the Ungodly Beliefs, the Soul or Spirit Hurts, and the Demonic Oppression.  When they take care of that they get physically healed, like tell me about the woman with a tumor that had a curse.

Betsy:  Okay, this was a woman in her early 40’s who had two teenage children. She had a disease called Von Hippel-Lindau disease.  She had tumors in her cerebellum and in her left eye.  And she was losing her balance, she had had an aunt that had already died of this disease and it was fatal it was a generational disease that ran in her family.  She was already thinking “What are my teenage children going to do without me because I’ll be dead in a few years.”  And as she went through this when they broke the generational sins and curses she began to change, she began to feel different. Then when she got to the end she realized that she wasn’t feeling the same things that she had been feeling in her body.  Where she had been leaning way over to one side now she was beginning to stand up straight and she went back to the doctor and the tumors were gone and in her eyes now the only thing is a tiny bit of scar tissue.  And her mom who wasn’t a Christian sent her a Christmas, this was right before Christmas and her mom who wasn’t a Christian wrote her a card and said “You are a miracle this is just amazing.”  And so we have seen when these areas are taken care of that God… it’s so much easier for the healing that God always wants to give us to actually for us to receive it.

Sid: Well listen 100’s of churches would not have been getting your materials and literally requiring their entire congregation; I mean they’re going to have a healthy congregation.  And how can you believe God with all of your heart which is the only way to have God’s promises activated in your life if you got all these wounds.

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sidroth on February 28th, 2014


Sid: We want everyone everywhere to understand that when Jesus said “Before His second coming it will be like the days of Noah” it talks about the Nephilim.  These were the giants according to the Bible. Now why do you say LA Marzulli that that’s what Jesus was referring to as opposed when I hear about the days of Noah the first thing that comes into my mind is sexual sin and depravity of mankind?

LA:  Well, the sexual sin… interesting He says Acts 2 to further elaborate on that passage where Jesus is talking it says “They were eating and drinking and giving in marriage.”  And in order to really understand what that passage means again we go back to Genesis 6.  The only people who are giving in marriage in Genesis 6 who are eating and drinking are the  Nephilim, or are the falling angels; it says very specifically that the sons of God which is Bnei haElohim, which is the Hebrew term which means angelic beings.  We know that because we can go to Job and see exactly same phrase being used.  So there are angelic beings and in this case are the bad guys.  And we know that the sons of god the fallen angels coming down and they take for whoever they want they choose wives and they marry them.  That is the “they” that Jesus is referring to and this is why it’s not sexual depravity of man, it’s fallen angels cohabiting having sex with the woman of earth creating a hybrid creature then known as the Nephilim.  And what he’s trying to do the bottom line here Sid, Satan is attempting to make man in his own image.  He’s a counterfeiter.  We are made in the image and likeness of God, Satan’s mission, and this by the way ties into the mark of the beast; Satan’s mission is to create man in his own image.  And that’s what he’s been trying to do since Genesis 6.

Sid: Hmm, and of course Jesus is creating man in His image so you have the mirror counterfeit of it.  Now I am fascinated by the fact that you have evidence in your brand new book “On the Trail of the Nephilim” that the first inhabitants in the United States were not Native American but were the descendants of the Nephilim these giants.  Tell me your evidence.

LA:  Oh, the evidence is very interesting; we believe that part of the Amorites who we know were Nephilim tribe.  When Joshua and Caleb began to press in and conquer Israel, the promise land some of these giant tribes saw what was going on and left.

Sid: Now how do we know that they are a giant tribe?

LA:  Well, because these are actually listed in scripture the Zazzumminian, and the Nephilim and the Rephaite, the Amorites.

Sid: Awe okay.

LA:  The Pezerites all these tribes are listed in the Bible so we know that they were there; we also have a map basically like Agabishon one of the largest giants the last of the Rephaim, this guy was approximately between 13 and 15 feet.  But we believe that the Amorite tribe in particular went through Northern Europe and settled back down in the Ohio Valley.  And that there…

Sid: Of the United States your saying.

LA:  Yes.

Sid: Okay.

LA: And it took them awhile to do this, this is all a land journey but we have some other evidence which again links the Nephilim back into the promise land.  We think and we believe and I’m not the only person to hold this theory; my colleague Judd Burton is an archaeologist and an anthropologist also believe that there was a diaspora, immigration if you will, an exodus from the Promise Land as Joshua and Caleb began to conquer those tribes.  Some when North, some went across the Atlantic Ocean and we believe that there is strong very strong evidence of this because for instance in Ohio we see these earthen works; we see this mound complex known as the great Circle Mound.

Sid: Now when you say the word mound complex what does that mean.

LA:    Thank you, these mounds first of all are enormous, 1250 in diameter.  They are and the earthworks; some of the earth has been taken and literally from miles away; it’s constructed with incredible symmetry and the great circle mount in Ohio is a henge means that there’s a circular work it can be of stone and it can be of other instance it’s of dirt.  But in the inside of the henge there’s a waterway so when the henge was in operation literally over 3000 years ago.  It’s estimated between 3 and 4,000 years and this begs the question “How does a primitive culture without the use of the wheel, without the use of the wheel, create this type of mathematical perfectly symmetrical edifice on the face of the earth.  And what’s even more interesting the complex from the circle mound used to extend to an area known as the Octagon Mound.  You could fit the great pyramid inside of the Octagon Mound; that’s how enormous this thing is I have walked through it.  And what’s really interesting Sid from the ground….

Sid: What is the purpose of these mounds by the way?

LA:  Well, they are all ceremonial and ritualistic; what I believe this is…

Sid: So it’s more like a worship type thing?

LA:  Well, they are, but there is evidence of human sacrifice at all these places

Sid: Hmm.

LA:    These in my opinion are Nephilim architecture, it’s fallen angel architecture. I don’t think it’s got anything to do with Native American’s with all due respect. For instance in the octagon Mount; every 18.6 years the full moon comes up in the longest part of the year in June right over one particular part of the Octagon Mound.  It’s extremely ceremonial but here’s the rug Sid you can only appreciate it from the air, when your down on the ground walking through the circle mound or into the octagon mound one has no idea really what they’re looking at. Circle mounds are easier because there is a huge gigantic circle and standing in the middle of it okay I’m in a circle, I can see that. But when you’re in the octagon Mount it is so enormous, and remember these sights were linked at one point in time.  There is a housing development that separates them now; but in antiquity they were linked together.  And the only way you can really view these are from the air. They are mathematically the way these things were created and done in my opinion this is not the work of Native American’s this is the work of something far older.

Sid:  So it’s like that mystery of what we hear of the Stonehenge and everyone says “How was that built?”

LA:    Hmm hmm.

Sid: Is that the same type of thing?

LA:  Well, we’ll talk about this a little later perhaps but the short answer to that is yes.  We believe that these megalithic structures that were on the earth and your talking Stonehenge and we can even talk about some of the henges found in the Americas.  This is the same group of people; dare I say people, but the same entities.  I believe this is fallen angle technology; I believe that the prince of the power of the air who we know is Satan is responsible.  And he’s setting up a…

Sid:  Why do you feel that Satan, or the prince of the power of the air, is responsible for these mounds?

LA: Because there is first of all there is evidence; good evidence of human sacrifice at all of these sites.  And this goes back right back to the days of Nimrod where the whole idea of human sacrifice was originated and this is the essence of the fallen ones religious system.    

Sid: But the science that these things; I have looked at your documentation the science that was available geometry that they have, they had to have all the type of technology that we have today. How old is this?

LA:  Well, the site the circle mound and I’m being conservative here it’s about 3500 years ago.

Sid: So how could they have had all of this elaborate science 3500 years ago?

LA:  That’s the point, it has the technology springs into existence and then vanishes.

Sid: And some of these stones are 120 tons and they had to move them like building blocks, like marshmallows to build with them.  How in the world did they move these stones laying up to 120 tons?

LA:  Yeah, your speaking of what we discovered in South America. The stone work in South America and specifically in Saksaywaman defies modern engineering techniques today.  The material… the stone is called andesite it’s extremely hard and yet we see these polygonal shapes in the stones. The quarry is 40 to 60 miles away, you working at an elevation of 12,000 feet. The stones are polygonal shape and it’s not just the front these cuts go all the way back through the stone.

Sid: What do you feel these fallen angels that cohabited with the daughters of men that the Bible tells us about what was their goal besides creating a race if you will a hybrid race that’s evil. What was their goal?

LA:  Well, the goal is… the end goal is to make man and the fallen ones image and to set up this control mechanism which we believe existed before the flood. And we see the fallen one after the flood attempting once again to create a grid system which empowers and is used to empower his plan basically.  And this is why these…

Sid: Do you think that this is perhaps the wheat and the tares, and the tares are the sons of the evil one that are going to be the whole anti-Christ system?

LA:  Well, eventually you know we’re kind of skipping around here but eventually it ties into the mark of the beast and the anti-Christ system absolutely, absolutely.  There’s a link between antiquity and modernity; between what happened thousands of years ago and what is happening right now and it ties in eventually into the mark of the beast.

Sid: You have to tell my audience right now about all of those 1000’s of years ago they actually had electricity?

LA:  Yeah, the stones that are created are used, let’s say in some of these monuments, all have piezoelectric power, or properties to them.  They can conduct electrical current; again these stones are shaped with such precision that a human hair cannot go through them.  And the size in which the stones lay on top of each other are polished to a high degree of luminosity.  It’ just amazing to see the architecture and this architecture springs up out of nowhere and then vanishes.

Sid:  And you know I’m jumping around but this is so phenomenal you have photographs of the skulls of these children of the Nephilim and they’re elongated, I’ve never seen a human skull like this; how could this not be big news in the scientific community.  Oops were out of time.

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sidroth on February 17th, 2014

Tim & Katie Mather

Sid: I have a tool that has come into my hands that I’m so excited about it I can’t wait to get it in your hands it’s called “Mega Shift” it’s by James Rutz. The book has just come out and is packed with 40 years of experience of how to run a house congregation.  I am not talking about a home group from a large church; I’m talking about a house congregation and I’m telling you there is going to be such an outpouring of God’s Spirit on planet earth that the only vehicle that will be able to function and especially there is a big divide between light and dark, and even in this country they start cracking down on institutional religious churches etc. They won’t be able to stop it just like in China.  Oh, I pray that the same miracles that are going on in the house churches in China the same presence of God that are going on in the house churches in China, the same love that the brethren have one for another would take place in the United States of America.  And I have a couple here that supernaturally God has sent them here and they didn’t come to do an interview I said I want to interview them it’s Tim and Katie Mather. They are spokesman for “Mega Shift Ministries” James Rutz’s book that we are making available is called “Mega Shift.”  There are so many questions I have to ask you but you have done it.  You were a traditional pastor you came from 16 generations of traditional pastors. Now that you have a house congregation for starters Tim what do people call you Bishop, because you probably started a lot of them, Pastor, well what do your people call you?

Tim: They call me Tim.

Sid: Is there a reason?

Tim:  They call me Tim because position has no place in the Body of Christ. We are just all God’s children and so my mother named me Tim and so that’s what they call me.

Sid: Now you told me of your personal frustration and that’s the right word of being a pastor in a traditional model church.  How do you feel now with the house congregation, all those restraints you were telling me about, all those things you lived for giving your message on Sunday, that was your purpose; how’s it changed?

Tim:  The change is that we moved from literally institutionalism that is it was a form it was a box it was a structure into family living in the Body of Christ the way it ought to be.  And so everything as we learned how to do this in the process is we began to look at a family, not a dysfunctional family which we’ve all come from, but a good powerful Biblical family model and then began to develop that

Sid: Wait a second, Katie you’re the wife of the pastor when he was in a traditional model, and now you’re the wife of Tim not the Pastor who is still functioning as the facilitative maybe. What is the difference in the man from what you see?

Tim:   The difference in the man is more peace in his heart because now he’s actually doing what he’s called to do and it is very much like being a coach.  He’s very much a coach; he’s very much a delegator and a teacher to teach others to do. It’s very much like and that’s why we just love grand-parenting because we don’t have to parent the grand children we can teach our children now how to raise grandchildren. And that’s why I just love the example of the family and even your introduction gives me goose bumps because that’s the real revelation that we’ve had that we’re no longer part of an institution where he’s got an institutional job where we’re really part of a family.

Sid: So Tim give me an idea of when do you normally meet, what day of the week?

Tim:  Well, what we…there’s a myriad of ways to do it…

Sid: Now I don’t want to know I don’t want to know the myriad way I want to know what you do.

Tim: What we do is we meet when we want to meet.

Sid: Oy vey come on now give me a break – well how do you pay the mortgage on the building?

Tim: I work and I pay the mortgage on my house.

Sid: So what do you do with the offering?

Tim:  We do what the Bible instructs us to do we give it to the poor, the needy, the widows and the fatherless, and help those.  We help those, go on mission trips we send people out the itinerants that come through and minister to us, and minister the word of God and go other places.

Sid: What percentage of the people that attend your house congregation are workers as opposed to the best show in town spectators?

Tim: As Jim says in Mega Shift the traditional church the average is about 5% participation, 5% of the people that come on a Sunday morning actually participate and do something. In the house church it is 100% because 1st Corinthians 14:26 says “If anyone has a song, a hymn, anyone has a revelation and the rest of 1st Corinthians 14 talks about everybody participating.  So the expectation is that people who come need to bring something to do.  People will start singing a song, say listen I have a song can I share it?  If we don’t know it we listen, if we do know it we sing along.  People prophesy people exercise gifts; people pray for other people.

Sid: Wait a second though I see a very serious problem and that is if you have a generation of people that were raised to be spectators how do you shift the people?  I know God is shifting the church, but how do you shift people with a mindset of I’m here to be entertained, TV has taught us that alone.

Tim:  We really have been allowed to be very lazy so what we do is go through a whole transition process to teach them how to actually participate, it’s excruciating because people frankly don’t want to, too many don’t want to. Many people don’t think they have anything to say, anything to give, and then there are other people on the other side…

Sid: But but but you see we have been taught that only the professional have something to give only the ones that have been to Bible College and seminary and cemetery, seminary…

Katie: (Laughing)

Sid: Had something to give.

Tim: Yeah and so the issue is that you have to mentor them, you have to coach them, you have to bring them along and teach them that it’s not only okay but it’s essential that they bring their piece of puzzle to the meeting.

Katie: Essentially it’s like family dysfunction, let’s say my grown children if they brought to me their children and I had to raise all of my 8 grandchildren that would be a dysfunctional family, I need to let my children raise their own children and learn how to run their own families and their own homes. I think that’s what’s been missing from structured churches that we’ve been taught that the pastor is the one that has to raise every one.  And now they need to be equipped to raise their own families to go out and share the word and to bring people to the Lord and to not only evangelize but to also disciple those new babes in Christ themselves.  And one important factor is that Christians now need to learn how to feed themselves rather than being completely spiritually dependent upon one person, a pastor, or the leadership of a church for their spiritual feeding.  They actually need to grow themselves. Learn the Word, hear God’s for themselves and do the work of the ministry.

Sid: Where did we get the idea that it should be a professional one head of a church concept, where did this come from?

Tim: It began to develop right in the centuries just after the last apostles passed off the scene because people began to organize it, that’s the natural that’s the natural thinking pattern of men.  Ignatius is culpable, he’s a historical figure, he’s culpable in this, but especially Constantine who organized the whole Roman Empire into Christianity he brought them all into Christianity all at one time.  And at that point there were so many they simply used the pagan temples, the pagan worship, the pagan rituals, they just adopted that into the Christian form.

Sid: Is it true that every one of your meetings is different?

Tim:  Yes and as a pastor that’s kind of frightening prospect sometimes.

Sid: Why?

Tim: Because we’re taught when we went to Bible college and seminary you’re taught to have it very organized and you’re not prepared if you’re doing it for the Lord you should be ready and prepared.  But when I get my children and grandchildren together there is a level of chaos in our house when everybody’s running around and having relationship with one and other.

Sid: What do you do with the children in a house church by the way, do you ship them off to a room to watch something on TV with Muppets or something?

Tim: What we like to do is I like to have them right there, they participate.  When we say open participation we mean open participation.

Sid: Do the children participate in your service?

Katie:  Yes, we had many of our groups, some of our groups don’t have any children at all in them, but those that do they do allow them to participant. There are different ways for them to participant but some of them also have play groups where they do have just the children all by themselves and they do a teaching for them.

Sid: I remember when I first started in ministry I knew nothing, all I knew was Jesus was real, that’s all I knew. And we started a congregation I was one of a few Jewish believers myself got together and we started something called a Messianic Jewish Congregation. No one had ever even heard of such a concept but it just made sense to me and every week Jewish people were coming to the Lord and it was such excitement going on.  Then we got organized and then we got… I was the quote pastor but I knew I didn’t know anything so I didn’t get in God’s way because I didn’t know what to do and God showed up.  Is that what’s going on?

Tim:  Absolutely.


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sidroth on February 10th, 2014


Sid: My guest Karen Wheaton is… that’s kind of an understatement red hot for the Messiah.  Karen I have to think you have ministry with young people called “The Ramp.”  I think they keep you pretty young and pretty red hot for the Messiah; do they?

Karen:  I think that’s why I love hanging around with young people so much they make me kind of forget how old I am.  But then the good thing is in the spirit we never really age do we.

Sid: No but let me take you back you started talking as an 11 year old you spoke at church. The anointing came all over you, but just out of curiosity what affect did it have on those that heard you?

Karen:  I began to see the people weeping and worshiping and the Holy Spirit; the word of God says the anointing destroys the yoke of bondage.  In their worship when you are ministering in the anointing I believe He reaches deep down into unseen places of the heart and brings healing and life and deliverance in ways that sometime are seen with the naked eye and other times are seen in places only the Holy Spirit knows. But He can reach and heal the hurting with the anointing of His presence.

Sid: You know speaking of healing, I take a look at a ministry like Benny Hinn, I believe the single catalyst to the great miracles that happen there it is the worship.  Why is worship so important for people to manifest they’re healings?

Karen:  I believe it’s because people get their eyes on Jesus; when they’re able to take their eyes off of the circumstance, or off of their even the pain in their natural body, and they’re able to look up and see the glory His face.  Because when you begin to worship Him you see Him; when you worship Him He comes it’s the promise in His Word He inhabits our praise. And when He comes He comes with healing in His wings; He brings deliverance; He brings whatever we need and that is the guarantee of His presence is when we see Him.

Sid: Now when you worship when you have your meetings with “The Ramp” of these teenagers you’re seeing literally everything I read about in the Bible you’re seeing the blind see, the deaf hear, people being set free of addictions of all kinds, being set free from homosexuality; the from the addictions of pornography, suicides are being aborted.  It must be wonderful but it all comes from that intimacy with God and somehow you managed to create such a God hunger within the people for His presence.  But I want to take you back shortly after you were filled with the Holy Spirit you saw an angel; tell me what you saw.  Was this angel anything like the angels sometimes we see on television?

Karen:  Well Sid it was a unique experience I never forgot it; it happened shortly after I had received the Holy Spirit at the age of 8. It was a very significant experience for me when I received the Holy Spirit.  Shortly after I was lying in bed in the middle of night obviously sound asleep my sister Janet was asleep in bed with me that night.  I woke up because the light in my room was so bright it was as if someone had turned a very bright light on in my room. When I woke up I opened my eyes to see standing in the doorway of my bedroom was a beautiful angel it was so white from head to toe it was glowing it was so bright indescribably bright. And yet I could its features I could see its facial features I could see as though it were clothed in light and yet it almost looked as though it were a robe; and yet it looked as though it were light.  I could see its hands one on top of the other; it was moving toward me it was toward me where I was lying in the bed.  I had no fear; I was not afraid of it I sat straight up in the bed; I reached my hands out toward it I was going to get up I wanted to go toward it I wanted to touch it.  My sister woke up and didn’t see anything except she saw me sitting up and she saw both of my hands outstretched.  She took her hand and pulled the back of my gown to keep me in the bed. As I began to reach toward the angel it stopped.  The angel had lights coming out of its eyes like flashlight beams and they were on me; these beams of light were on me.  And the angel did not seem to want me to touch it, it began to back up and it backed out of my bedroom and oddly enough it was as though it ascended straight up in the ceiling of the house and left.

Sid: Now you know I’m just naturally curious about angels I have actually seen an angel that appeared as a person to me. What did this angel look like?  Did it look like a person?

Karen:  It somewhat looked like a person yes, there was so much light around it I could see its eyes, I could see its face I could see its hands.  I could not see its feet, it was as though it went into just smoky cloudish at the bottom of it.  I could see its facial features so yes in that sense it did look like somewhat of a person, yes.

Sid: So at 17 you went to Bible school out at the old PTL Network, and you started being a regular on the PTL Show how did that happen?

Karen:  I went to school where Jim Bakker had opened the School of Ministry to begin the Fall of 1978 I was 17 years old. Oddly enough Sid I went to major in Christian drama. I loved drama as it’s still what we do today and I thought he would have Christian soap operas and I thought “Yes, I can do Christian drama.”  I had been there only a couple of weeks when they said that my accent was so southern I could only be used in comedies. (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing)

Karen:  I was devastated, but it caused me to sing one night in a Christian supper club that Jim Bakker owned and I was singing on a Friday night in that little supper club oddly enough the song I did was “He Ain’t Never Done Me Nothing But Good.”  So if that’s southern enough for ya.

Sid: That’s southern. (Laughing)

Karen:  He happened to walk in that night and asked me to be on the program Monday morning and from that experience on his program on that Monday morning it literally opened the door to the world for television. It’s a door that has opened and has never closed since. It really launched me into the ministry that I’m doing today.

Sid: Very briefly tell me about the song “For Every Mountain.”

Karen:  For every mountain is a song dear to my heart; I have learned that in the places of challenge we can find a place to worship.  Do you remember the old song Andre Crouch sang years ago “Through it all, through it all..

Sid: Yes.

Karen:  I’ve learned to trust in Jesus; I’ve learned to trust in God.” so that through the places of trial and pain and hurt although our Father does not bring evil upon us and He never has He takes those placed and uses them for our good.  Takes what the enemy means to destroy us with and turns it for our good and His glory.  So in the places of pain I can look back and say “Father even for that I can give You praise.”

Sid: In other words you’re going to win either way as long as you keep your eyes on Jesus.  (For Every Mountain)

Karen: Worship excerpt “For Every Mountain.”

Sid: That was Karen Wheaton singing “For Every Mountain.”

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sidroth on February 3rd, 2014

Shawn Bolz

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be normal which the world cause radical but God calls normal for His Kingdom.  And God is doing some amazing things, I have a young man on the telephone his name is Shawn Bolz I’m speaking to him at his home Foley, Alabama, he’s part of White Dove Ministries.  Literally he has just come out with a book called “Keys to Heaven’s Economy.”  And it’s in referenced to an angelic visitation that he had from the Minister from the Minister of Finance. There’s so many things and insights into the last days in your book from your angelic visitations. The thing that intrigues the most is you had a brother that died at age 4 from Leukemia as a result the whole family that was unsaved at the time came to know the Lord.  But obviously your brother did not fulfill his destiny he was taken way to early; there was an anointing on his life. But there are a lot of people not just death but just sin that don’t fulfill their destiny and just as you picked up God showed you, you picked up the Divine destiny that was on your brother life, the Divine inheritance on your brother’s life.  What did God and angel the show you in reference to these anointing’s that are in eternity that are available to us today?

Shawn:  Well, I want to tell you a small story that’s actually not in the book but it’s a picture of what the inheritance that are available for us based on Hebrews 11:39 where it says “These were all commended for their faith yet none of them received what had been promised God had planned something better that for us not only together with us they would be made perfect.”  So with us they are going to be made perfect in their calling; that God promised them something that never was fulfilled. I had an encounter where I went into a place in the Spirit called the abortion room, or the room where they aborted in Heaven. It was everybody who has ever been aborted in a generation of people since abortion has been legal just in America and so it’s probably more people than just in America but I was seeing those ones.  And I was listening to them there was a definite war for justice for they were crying out for justice and I couldn’t I was overwhelmed and I couldn’t take what I was hearing because their screaming they we’re saying “Our purpose was cut off, our purpose was cut short.”  And all of sudden it’s like Jesus had me focus on one of them and it was a young girl who was 18 years old and she began to scream forth, “I had a calling, I had a destiny before I was even created You had planned something good for me to share with Jesus that His inheritance could be brought forth, and it was cut short and I demand justice based on Your virtue.”  And as she was saying this, Jesus and all the crowd of Heaven was watching her and then she pointed down on the earth and she pointed at her sister who was not aborted who would have been 16 at the time and she said “Would you allow for her to walk in the worship calling that I had.” She loves to sing but would you add to her everything that was available to me that she could walk in the fullness of her purpose but also have an additional virtue with a nature of Christ visit her to be expanded by His nature for the sake of me inheriting what you called me to inherit?”  And all of Heaven listened for Jesus’s response and He looked at her and said “Yes, I’ll do that in this generation.”  So we’re walking in a generation where people are called, and I was called to receive part of my brothers inheritance and his mantle of what he would have done in his destiny so that I can have more available to me so that I can walk in a greater measure so Jesus can get a greater measure. It’s not about me, it’s about Jesus. So I believe that He’s offering things that would have been laid down whether it’s from sin or because someone died a mantle that’s been left you know just in the dust; something that’s just been left behind that God still has an intention to use in our generation.  And I believe that there’s going to be people who are expanded by several callings of people who have gone one earlier, people who were prematurely killed or people who fell into sin and all of a sudden that is still there available for access for believers who would go into any industry that God’s calling them to whether it’s a Hollywood producer who fell short of his calling and he made movies that had his agenda not God but all of a sudden God said “This is still available for somebody who would pursue it in My Name.”  And so there is expansion of His nature that He wants to bring people.

Sid: Well, I see how you got this. I mean you got caught up in the Spirit you had a visitation of an angel but how do I get this? How do those listening to us get these ancient anointing’s and mantles that where the people didn’t finish what they were supposed to do?

Shawn:  I think God is offering it and He’s making Himself available in an easy way and I think if we just even think about what He’s making available to us individually and we ask Him to show us the people He’s surrounded us with; the people that we relate the most to. Like recently I released a word through our ministry about Rosa Parks who was just a great civil rights movement leader and one of the greatest there ever was in America; she was the mother of the civil rights movement.  And I saw as she died that there was going to be a greater mantle released of what she carried to a whole generation of people and there has to be a desire in us to access something where we want to even go further than those who went with those mantles went with those who went with those anointing’s.

Sid: Now when we think of a mantle we don’t think of a civil rights worker we think of someone with a healing anointing but there are these mantles in every strata of society is what’s your saying.

Shawn: God raised up George Washington and I know that he had all the down sides that he had but he was a man who created a pattern in our nation that I believe someone needs to take that further.  And If we go back to the people like if we feel called to the government and we start ask God who in government served you; who in government touched your heart; who in government took your anointing into the governmental political arena and how do I go further than that?  How do I access a pattern that they already established that they fall on and how do I even take it further? Because we do not want to go backwards we want to go forwards.  I believe that God is releasing these callings and these mantles from Heaven for these industries and for these places and that He’s raising up token examples right now of a lot of the fathers and mothers and the grandmothers and grandfathers are going home right now we’ve seen a great multitude of people in the church and in the world who were Christian’s who have gone home recently I believe that what they carried is available now; that they’re ceiling is now our floor.

Sid: You know what I’m thinking is as you’re speaking even the greats that we’re talking about didn’t fulfill all they could have done.

Shawn: Absolutely.

Sid:  Because of the human factor so that’s all available so again I’m kind of a practical guy let’s suppose I want to pick up an anointing in television, which I do all over the world and have a show all over the world.  If you were me what would you be doing right now?

Shawn:  I would begin to ask Jesus and ask Heaven for the resources; ask the Father for the resources to be poured out for that show and also the divine favor, the network connections, the places that you need to be. He’s already prepared the way for you and He already has a greater desire for you to enter in that than you do yourself. So you can take out the human factor, or add in the human factor it doesn’t matter He desires His face to be seen on every television station, every television global networks, satellite network there is. And so if you want to participant and partner with that then that blesses His heart, it pleases His heart and so you can begin to access that which He has made available in our generation which is greater than what we see.

Sid: Are you saying that we have not because we ask not?

Shawn:  I am absolutely saying that.

Sid: And I happen to believe that Heaven is drawing so much closer to earth right now the realm of Heaven eternity is growing it’s just coming so much closer to earth that everything is going to speed up.

Shawn:  Absolutely.

Sid: Well, tell me about… let’s get another example let’s suppose someone is a violinist what should they be praying for?

Shawn:  I think that they should be praying for sounds from Heaven; when I went into that storehouse of Heaven which we can talk about I saw that there was a realm of creativity and a realm of music that we haven’t even touched yet.  There’s s that have been only in the throne room since they were created worshiping but I believe that this generation is representing and coming into the final generation whether we are that or not, there is a coming into there is a transitional period right now that’s happening.  And I believe that we have available to us sounds that have never been released and ways to put music together even technicality, scientifically all those things that have never been done before even using computers and all those things.  And so there is a violinist who wants to serve God whether it’s secular or Christian in their in their nature of how they want to serve Him because they may want to be in an orchestra or they may want to be…

Sid: Why would God want someone in a secular orchestra?

Shawn: It’s the same reason why when you go into a law office and you see art on the walls, that He used Christian’s to have that art on the walls and He wants Christians inspired Christians to paint something that cause people to see justice so that when they walk into a legal office they have security in the justice system of God and not necessarily the justice system of man. And there’s somebody that tends to contend for the higher realm of justice. Same with music a violinist who would go into the secular arena to play music that would remind people of eternity even if they don’t hear it in their mind they hear it in their heats and their hearts begin to be awakened for the eternal destiny of music in Heaven and worshiping in Heaven.

Sid: So you are saying all of earth is a symphony and we have a lot of people that know how to play the pastor instrument and the evangelist instrument, but we don’t have too many people in every other arena of society.

Shawn:  Absolutely, if we don’t send our children like missionary’s into these industries then we’re not going to hit the places where Jesus wants to inherit the most.  I think that part of the reason why the church in the western world is even it’s still growing very rapidly but not as rapidly as it was even growing 50 years ago. And part of that is because we stopped infiltrating the world’s society with God’s Kingdom and Heaven’s not being invading in places. We do conferences unto ministry and not conferences unto Hollywood getting saved.  We don’t go out and reach the entertainment industry in Nashville, we may bring them into our churches and our ministries but we don’t go out to them. We tell our kids we want to do secular music don’t do secular music because that’s lesser than doing worship music. But somebody has to go out and awaken we’re going to be worshiping for all eternity somebody has to go out and awaken the world to the loving God who is looking at them with blazing eyes of fire who loves them and there’s resources available and there is faith.  Part of that those resources aren’t just finances it’s favor, it’s the favor of Heaven to come behind people who are going to maybe open up a medical clinic and they open up that medical clinic with a whole new value system than what’s out there. And they open up something that helps the poor and the rich alike and all of a sudden there is favor on it and it becomes a pilot program for something that’s going to open up for the nations and it does produce an economy to it, it does produce finances but it also produces a justice that’s going on in medical clinics that’s never been done before.

sidroth on January 27th, 2014


Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Renny McLean. As I said on yesterday’s broadcast “What an example a prophetic example of the One New Man because Renny’s mother is Jewish, his father is Jamaican and his mother had a visitation from the Lord. Because people from another religious group be it Islam whatever Hinduism, they need a supernatural encounter. Mental apologetics is just not enough. Renny when your mother had a vision of Jesus and started moving in this realm would it fair to say that your mother is a seer?

Renny:  Oh, very much so my mother was definitely a seer; if my mother told you she saw something you could bank on it it’s going to happen the way she calls it.  She just had that vision; she just had that ability to breakdown the word and define what she saw.  My mother had that ability.  She still has it I mean she’s almost 80 now and still going strong; she’s not a preacher she’s an ordinary believer but she’s definitely is a seer.

Sid: But you know Renny I feel that the distinctiveness of this next move of God’s Spirit will be it’s not the superstar system it’s us with the superstar inside of us!

Renny:  Oh man, oh I totally concur with that; see I believe that the day of one man show is over; it’s the hour of the pulpit man where everybody moves in the power of God where everybody moves in the glory of God.  See one of the hallmarks of this new dimension Sid is that part of the sign and wonder realm is visions and dreams because I honestly believe that visions and dreams are one of the end-time mediums of God. Because the Bible says that in the pouring out of the Spirit He said “Well see.”  So that’s part of the manifestation of the miraculous is that our spiritual eyes are going to be opened and we’re going to see into the spirit realm as never before.  Because that’s the key to the miraculous is because what we see we speak and what we speak God will manifest.

Sid: Now many people I know that have had visitations to heaven…

Renny:  Yes.

Sid: Have come back and stated that they literally saw a parts room which God desperately wanted to get these body parts from the invisible realm into the visible realm.

Renny: Yes.   

Sid: Through the medium of faith did you ever see this?

Renny:  Yes I have; I’ve seen it on several occasions; several occasions. I’ll give you a testimony just as you say that.  I remember being in a meeting about a year ago where there was lady in the meeting who had a kidney was destroyed was destroyed through cancer.  But I clearly remember that in the middle of worship she literally saw and angel come with a kidney and put it into her; when she got back and she got examined there was no cancer at all literally. The actually documented that it was a brand new kidney; you don’t grow a kidney in the space of 24 hours not a brand new one.  Although we know body parts grow back but not in 24 hours.  So I mean God does these things but that realm is there.  I mean let me give you a testimony there’s so much that I could speak to you about.  I remember one day having an encounter down in Virginia and we was worshiping the Lord I mean in the middle of the high worship the Heaven’s opened and all we could see when the Heavens opened was missing body parts.  We saw bones; we saw ears; we saw ear drums; we saw eyeballs; we saw missing limbs and I said “Lord when is this going to happen?”  He said that “This realm is descending upon the church.”

Sid: I can’t say I see but I’ll almost say “I see.” I see ordinary believers going into hospitals in Israel where the suicide bombers have done their horrible deed.  There are Israeli staying in that hospital with no limbs and I can see the limbs coming out and the arms and the legs and the various body parts and the faces that are totally distorted are being just like Naaman the skin coming back like a baby skin.  Can you picture that Renny?

Renny:  Well let me tell you what I just saw in the realm of the Spirit and what I just saw in the Spirit Sid as you said that that’s what I was seeing. On what you just said I already feel we should decree it.  Father right now what your servant just saw we just decree what’s going to happen; we decree oh God right now that you raise up people in power in Spirit in Your Name to glorify You Name and manifest your name on the earth.  Father right now visit Israel, visit Israel, Father You began on the earth showing Yourself in signs and wonders through that nation called Israel, and Father I believe the next wave is of miracles is about to hit the earth, but I believe Israel has a lot to do with it.  And Father right now I ask oh God that You right now visit Your people for right now.”  Excuse me (Praying in the Spirit) “Father visit them create nerves let bones go into place in the Name of Jesus let skin come back; skin like a baby Lord as if it never burned nor bruised; Father I call forth that miracle there’s a miracle in our mouth today and Father God we say right now Visit Israel with signs, wonders and miracles in Yeshua’s Name Amen.

Sid: I have a book in my hand that I happen to like the cover a lot but I like the inside even better called “Eternity Invading Time.”  What is this title mean to you?

Renny: Let me tell you what it means to me; God created time so in other words time came out of eternity but time is not eternity.  With God there is neither a past nor present nor future nor beginning of days because God just is; when you break it down into final analysis God is eternity but He created time.  And in the time dimension there’s the past, the presence, the future, and the future perfect. Now the Bible says time is shortening; everybody will agree right now that time is shrinking time is shortening.  Well if we still have the same 24 hours days and same 12 months that makes one year then the question is “Where is the time going?” Because the days haven’t changed but the time has, and you know what that simply means.

Sid:  And by the way most people have remarked that whether their young or whether they’re old it just seems as though time is being compressed.

Renny: Yeah, oh it’s being compressed oh yes oh yes you know why time is being compressed Sid; you know what that means in the realm of the spirit when we say that time is being compressed?  It means that what we prophesy it means that what we speak is going to start to happen quicker because there’s not that much time left for it to happen in. So where we used to say that in the next six months or in the next year God’s going to be doing this if we can see why time is shrinking it means what we’re saying is My God I could shout right now.  It means what we speak it’s going to manifest a whole lot quicker because time is shortening because we’re approaching the end of days.  And that’s why right now this period of time is the wrap up time and that’s why what we’re speaking is going to manifest a whole lot quicker.  So that’s why what it means when you say Eternity Invading Time; my goodness gracious me that means there’s an overtaking of time.

Sid: You know since some I know your teaching from having read your book.

Renny:  Yeah.

Sid: You give an example in scripture of exactly what you’re talking about in Amos the 9th chapter; explain.

Renny:  Okay the plowman will overtake the sower the Bible says; now in other words Jesus… it’s throughout the whole book when we talk about this dimension. I’ve never looked at it as how I’m looking at it now how this dimension has always been there we just haven’t seen it.  But does the Bible not also say in the same context that while before we call He’s answering.

Sid: Yes.

Renny:  I mean it’s all there “The Lord overtaken, the Lord going on ahead.”  The time has come where we’re going to reap just even before we sow and I believe what God’s going to manifest why He’s going to overtake you. God’s going to bless your very intent because He knew you were going to do it before you were going to do it.  So He’s doing it in advance.  Besides the Bible says the plowman is overtaken, overtaken that was before your seed hits the gown you can already start to see harvest.

Sid: And I have to tell you I’m seeing someone that has a breathing problem of some sort and if you will just breathe you’ll see your breathing. “If you’ll just breathe that’s kind of dumb, if you’ll just breathe you’ll see your breathing normal.”  I mean I don’t know if it’s allergies or I’m not going to list all of the conditions but God is healing breathing conditions and pains especially in the neck right now.

Renny:  Yeah.

Sid: Renny why did you write this book now why didn’t you write it 20 years ago; why wasn’t it written 20 years from now; why now this book “Eternity Invading Time?”

Renny: I believe with all of my spirit being that the church has gone as far as it can go with what it knows now.  I believe that for the church to step into the next realm of the miraculous the church is going to have to understand the revelation regarding it.  And in that book it has got the principals it explains… I mean we’ve seen literally, and I’m not exaggerating, we’ve seen 1000’s of miracles; have of the stuff we can’t even talk about it is just so much we’re just saying.  Not just physical miracles we’re talking miracles in the dimension you would not even believe in.  We’ve seen God we’ve seen weight loss manifest, we’ve seen money grow in people pockets literally grow; we’ve seen God do all of those things.  You say to me “Why is it happening now?” I’ll tell you the reason why in a nutshell because of the survival of the church in the days ahead is going to be based on how supernatural it’s prepared to become. And that’s why the Lord put it on my spirit He said to me Renny I want you to write what I tell you because He said “I want the believers to walk this earth in the demonstration of My Name and the power of My glory where they will see signs, wonders and miracles.  Where they won’t just look for the sign, they won’t just look for the miracles but they will become the sign.”

Sid: You know Renny the hottest churches in America no even in the world right now are what is known as seeker sensitive, but I tell you the hottest churches in the world and in this next move of God’s Spirit will be those that are God sensitive.

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sidroth on January 20th, 2014


Sid:  You know I was thinking about something Mishpochah last month I was channel surfing and I found the Larry King show. He was actually it was a turnabout he was being interviewed by Barbra Walters. She asked the question “You really have a gift for what you do and so you like to use this gift you like people you really enjoy… you would even work for nothing” and he said “Yeah,” and then he looked at her and he said to her “Well, you’re the same way, you would even work for nothing.”  And then they said they were kind of kidding back “Well, maybe we do want some money on this thing.”  Well, I have to tell you something, number one I don’t work; this gift isn’t mine, the gift of interviewing.  I have a full partnership with a Senior Partner and I go along for the ride.  The Senior Partner is the Holy Spirit, and I am so excited that He shows up at every single radio show, and television show.  My guest I’m so excited having a chance to meet him at least by way of telephone is David Herzog.  And I’m speaking to him and he’s in a hotel room in Edmonton, Canada featuring his book “Mysteries of the Glory.”  Talking about the glory of God he received a presence of God in the upper-room in Israel.  And then he went to Toronto, the great Toronto outpouring, and had the same type of experience happen there.  When it happened in Israel he started leading Jews and Arabs to the Lord just instantly.  As a matter of fact David your father, Jewish, did not know the Messiah and you had an open vision or was it a dream of your father in hell?  Tell me about that.

David:  Yeah, I was at the youth camp and the minister said “If you want to have a burden for souls especially your family members come up to the front.” So with a bunch of youth we came up to the front; and all these youth had the same experience of hell at the same time it was a corporate visitation or vision at the same time.

Sid: Okay, and what vision was it?

David: Well, people began weeping and wailing; afterward when we talked together youth had all seen at the same figure, they had all taken in the spirit to hell and saw people in hell. I saw my father he wasn’t dead and he’s still not dead but in the dream I saw him in hell and he was burning and he was… and not just the pain but he was miserable.  And in this kind of vision thing he looked at me and said “Son, why did you stop praying for me I was almost there” because I had been praying for him for 8 years and I had just given up praying for him.  I said “I’m just going to let go and God will take care of him.”  And that’s when God got a hold of me and said “Pray right now.”  And so I began praying and this time with real compassion with tears I realized what was at stake that it was real.  Within an hour later a little old lady came to his door knocked on his door and led him to the Lord.

Sid:  What affect does this have on you; number one God was showing you don’t give up and He’s showing you He was showing everyone because there is many of us that have prayed for unsaved relatives and friends for years. Haven’t seen any results and kind of said “Well, God you heard those prayers and I’m going to go on to some other things; don’t.”  What else did you learn from this David?

David: Well, I learned that sometimes it looks like you’re relative or friend is getting worse but actually the worse it gets many times it means they’re right near the edge of getting saved.  A lot of times the battle is the worst right before the victory; so sometimes when you’re ready to give up it’s usually when it’s about to happen, it’s about to change.  Just like the Apostle Paul; you know he was pretty bad right up to the point that he got saved and he was totally touched by God.

Sid: Now in this vision what was it like when you saw your father in hell, was he talking?

David: First he was being burned; his flesh was being burnt but it wouldn’t stop but he’s still alive.  This fire would come all over him; he’s still alive he’s screaming in pain then he looked at me in the vision or whatever it was, and looked at me and that’s when he spoke to me and said “Son why did you stop praying I was almost there?”  I believe that maybe his life was at stake at that point had I not interceded and prayed he could have been dead or gone or who know what would happen to him.

Sid: What did this do as far as your compassion for others to come to know the Messiah?

David: Well, that was the beginning for that vision on that’s what put the evangelistic burden and desire for the nations in my heart.  The Lord told me “Now I want you see every soul as if it’s your own flesh and blood, you’re own father.”

Sid: Now I have to ask you something, the phenomena of gold showing up, gold dust; isn’t that big in the states anymore.  It was big for a short while; it was extremely controversial; people were afraid of it; the people said that it was magic trick or demonic.  Tell me the first time this appeared in your ministry in a big way.

David: I had seen it in other meetings but the first time it really struck home to me I was in France living out there in France and from there reaching the nations; and my little girl my second baby Glory was born the Lord told us she would be sign and a wonder. She was born in the hospital and we began worshiping the Lord as the baby was coming out. And they cleaned up the baby and we looked the baby and she was covered with this gold, her face and chest.  The doctors were amazed and they said “What is this?” And I said “This is the glory of God.”  So as a baby within a couple minutes of being born covered with this I knew that she didn’t have makeup kit in her bag or something she is a baby you know just born with her birthday suit on.  And that’s when it struck home with me that this is real; this is of God my own baby whom we named Shannon Glory for the Glory of God.  That’s how I knew that this is of God; even though it’s not you know God brings and moves like this and we just take it as it comes; we don’t camp on these things but when they come we need to receive whatever God brings and use it for His glory.

Sid: And why is God doing this, why is it necessary to have gold dust; I don’t read about gold dust in the New Covenant?

David: Yeah, I don’t have… I actually don’t have all of the answers all I know is that God did say that there would be new signs and wonders; there would be new things and greater works shall you do; I go to be with Father.  And so we can be seeing some of the greater works that He prophesied, or we could be seeing some of the unrecorded miracles.  It says that there was many miracles that were not recorded and He said “Greater things shall you do; in the last days there shall be signs and wonders.”  So yes, it’s hard to say but I know gold is all over the Bible, it is prophetic you know the Arc of the Covenant…

Sid: Okay it’s a wonderful sign but the only way you can judge a gift is whether it’s from God in my opinion is the fruit.

David: Exactly.

Sid: So take me to when you started having meetings in France.

David: Sure.

Sid: And you saw gold dust; what effect did it have.

David: As you know France is the high percentage of unsaved people and I’m looking for soul winning. When it first happened and I heard about it I actually wasn’t very interested in it; I wasn’t against it but I just said “How does this help win souls?”  And so I didn’t try to get this anointing or… and it just happened in this meeting in Marseille, France south of France.  I was there preaching and all of a sudden I was sharing actually about repentance and about holiness and there was this Bible School and they wanted to be in ministry.  And I said “Well, what are your motives and this and that and search your heart.”  And people were weeping and getting touched in repentance; so it was a repentance time and all of a sudden and we look at the walls of the building and the four walls were covered with gold dust for 3 days. Catholics heard about it in town; because Catholics like signs and wonders and they came with scotch tape and began picking the tape off for 3 days.  But every night we had evangelistic meetings and they would come to the meetings because during the day they were able to look at this gold and they were getting saved left and right.  And that’s when I realized “Wow,” if this is of the enemy he is pretty dumb because he’s bring a lot of souls here.

Sid: (Laughing) Tell me about that young Jewish girl that you actually prayed over a handkerchief and what happened to her?

David:  I believe we had a revival that broke out for six months nonstop in 1998 in this church four or five days a week; actually it started out in the same day as the Pensacola revival but in ’98.

Sid:  Now this was the young girl that could not… was deaf and could not speak or had eating problems.

David:    Yeah, yeah it what happened was we had this revival meeting in Paris; actually during the World Soccer Cup when France won the cup; and this man came with a Jewish believer from the south of France.  Brought a handkerchief as a point of contact because he heard about all the miracles that were happening and said “Please pray for my daughter, just lay hands on this handkerchief and I’m believing as a point of contact when I bring it back to her; put it on her bed she’ll be healed.”  So he did that and within like a day or two the doctors were amazed she could talk normally, her bowel movements before were not normal; now they were normal.  Her speech was not normal, now they’re normal; she could eat properly everything was normal within just about 24 or 48 hours of this happening.

Sid: Now you stated that France won the World Cup but I understand you prophesied that explain quickly.

David:   Yeah, during the revival that they were going to shut down the revival about four weeks because summertime was starting; they didn’t plan it to go more than 4 days. And so the Lord told me yeah, they’re going to shut it down unless you do something.  The Lord said “Prophesy” and when the prophesy comes to pass they’ll know that this is a sign of God’s favor and they’ll continue the revival the pastors.” So I prophesied and the Lord said “Say this, “France will win the World Soccer Cup and it’s a sign during that season of favor for this revival.”  And when I said that, they looked at me like I was crazy.

Sid: Why France didn’t have a good team?

David:  Well, France, Brazil is pretty good; there’s a lot of other teams, the French are not as patriotic when it comes to sports as they are with maybe food or other things.  You tell America that they are going to win and “Yeah, we’re going to win even though they never win soccer.”  So France was very skeptical that they would win. When they won they were amazed even the radio announcements that they were interviewing the players and they were amazed that they had won.

Sid:  David were you a little nervous in case they didn’t win.

David:  Oh yeah, I prayed hard for a soccer game in my life.

Sid: (Laughing)

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sidroth on January 14th, 2014


Sid: I want to see everyone listening to my voice do two things, and I’m including myself in this.  I want to see you hear God’s voice for yourself and be obedient. Maybe a third thing, then when you meet Jesus face to face He’s going to say “Well, done good and faithful servant.”  Over the years I interviewed a number of people that have had, for lack of better words, formulas for how to hear God’s voice.  But I can tell you on a personal basis I’m lead by God’s Spirit, I mean I have no doubt about that.  But my personal prayer for years had been a very simple prayer “God I want to hear Your voice and I want to be obedient.”  I mean many people pray other things but that’s been my major prayer. I have to tell you I want to hear God’s voice personally better than I do right now, much better.  And when I got a hold of Dr. Gary Whetstones series called “Today Hear God’s Voice” it’s actually a college curriculum course and I found out the fruit in Gary’s life and in those that had been in enrolled in his college and in his course I said “I’ve got to get this for myself and I have to get this in the hands of everyone that listens to our ministry.”  Now on yesterday’s broadcast Dr. Gary Whetstone said “He was with his wife Faye in Israel and they were doing a video clip to encourage people to go on their next Israel trip; and this was back in 2005 and all of a sudden he was in an open vision.  For those that don’t know what an open vision is how would you describe it Gary?

Gary: It’s when the Spirit of God takes you and you are out of all of your senses even though your there and you know you’re a person but you have no natural perception of your surroundings.  You are completely encapsulated in the unveiling of that which God is revealing; it’s not like you are sitting watching a picture it’s you are in the picture watching everything happen around you.

Sid: And what you saw, boy that was better than any university course I could think of; you saw people marching historically throughout all of history and you saw some people were doing things on their own strength.  Some people started out hearing God but then did things on their own strength; some people were told to do things by people they respected.  Some people had circumstances that forced them to do the things they did; and most… just about all this stuff was burned with fire.  Did you see people who what they did for God was not burned with fire?

Gary:  I watched people Sid that when they heard God’s voice and they did what He said there was an increase of that voice of God; it was like light just pierced and penetrated the atmosphere of that person. Others became just engaged in that hearing and moving in God.  And as they heard and moved in God they went forward and nothing was burned.  I watched these people that I knew and this was the most incredible thing; was I watched people that I knew that I watched so many people get affected by the voice of God speaking.  Then God being able to speak to thousands of people because one person heard God.  It was like an instant; when God’s voice was penetrated in one person and they heard an obeyed Him it became like a power of release that took place in other people’s lives.  That’s what happens when they hear this course on “Do They Hear His Voice?”

Sid: You know what I’m thinking, things are so horrific in our nation morally as far as the economy, as far as the family set up. I mean in almost every arena and people say “Well, but if there’s enough prayer then things will turn around.”  I’m thinking that if enough believers hear the voice of God and pray according to the voice of God things will be turned around.

Gary:  Sid, God never told us to pray about the problems; God never said “Take the social issues of today and bring them to God.  Jesus never once complained about Caesar even though they crucified people up and down the road.  Jesus never once talked about what’s going on in government, what’s going on in peoples’ attitudes and actions. He only said “I do that which I hear My Father say.”  And we are the children of God Sid and we have the voice of God speaking in us.  Every child of God hears Him; we hear God in us and we are given the absolute place of the Son of God’s authority to respond to Him and do what He says.  You know there is nothing I can pray for that God is going to act on; it is what is done in Heaven God command’s us to pray done on Earth.  It’s His will not mine even if I find a scripture and this is what I watched in the visions; I watched people take what they believed they wanted God to do and what other people said “This is what God is doing.”  And everything they did that they said God was doing that God did not speak it burnt; it completely burnt.  And the voice of God today is speaking right now to your audience that there is a sword to pierce into the heart and mind of His children to divide spirit and soul; to bring down deference a clarity of differential between what is of the nature of God speaking and what is the rational voice and the circumstantial information that is surrounding them.  God’s Spirit is speaking such a severance in spirit with word that is come from Him in us that we cannot deny and neither can we defy that it is the voice of God speaking.

Sid: I want you to whet our appetite by telling me that what you did after this open vision and what affect it had on you, on your marriage, on your family, on your church family, and on those that took the course that you designed from that open vision.

Gary: I watched every pastor because this is a Bible School course that is predominately training leaders; for men and women that are going to influence the Body of Christ and you’re making it available for everyone.  Which everybody needs to hear His voice; this is God’s will for us.  As we have trained thousands of leaders to hear the voice of God and move in that authority I have seen… what we did I took one church that we had opened and I went back and I heard God what did you say to me?  And I heard God say “Buy the building,” and I recognized that I put a church in that building that I never heard God say “Put a church in the building.”

Sid: In other words you heard God to buy it but He didn’t say what to do with it.

Gary:  Exactly, well I tried to finish His sentence because I was already wanting to do church work in that area.  The next thing I knew I got the Pastor that was in the church, I got the leaders that were there and I sat down with them after this vision and I said “Listen guys, I’m going to be frank with you I do not have God saying continue this church,” I said “I want you to talk to God and if He tells you you can have the building and continue the church.”  Every one of them came back and they said “Pastor, I’m not hearing God say it.”  I said “Then if God’s not saying it we’re not doing it.” We closed the church…

Sid: But doesn’t that make you look bad after you’ve raised money to do this, after you’ve imparted the vision to so many people, how could you do that Gary?  I mean the average pastor couldn’t go back on something like that.

Gary: I cannot be average Sid I cannot live by the viewpoints of others.  I am going to stand eternally judged by whether I did or did not do what God said.  And what happened in me, and I shared it with the church that was in Philadelphia there, I said “Because I’m not hearing it we can’t do it.”  And you know every one of them said “You know if we’re not hearing it we don’t need to be in a church God did not call.”  And that’s one of the big questions that comes out, how many churches are built out of we need to do this, we need to do that; this is an areas of need, this is an area of need.

Sid: But you know what scares me even more Gary, is how supernatural it was that God told you to buy that building and how logical it was to say “That building would have been a church.”  Tell me the circumstances of how God told you to buy that building.

Gary: I had in my spirit God speak to me in this section of west Philadelphia to buy a building and I told my staff, I told one of the fellows on staff that works in just a lot of administrative areas.  And I said “Go there and find the building.”  So they called me from a street up in Philadelphia and they said “You know I think we’re here” and I said “Wait a minute, and I heard God say “They’re there.”  I said “Wherever you are, that’s the building we’re buying.”  And they said “Well, we’re standing on a school step.”  And I said then “Turn around.”  They turned around and it was a factory behind them; I said “We’re buying that building.”  They said “There’s a sold sign on it” and I said “What?”

Sid:    (Laughing)

Gary: They said “Somebody else owns it.”  I said “Wait a minute, I don’t know what happened I don’t care how it worked that building is what we’re buying and we’re paying $365,000 for it.”  So he calls the owner, the owner said “We have the building sold we’re going to settlement in 20 some days.” It was sold for almost 2 million odd something dollars and he said “We wouldn’t sell it to you anyway, who are you?”  He said “We’re the ones that God said “We’re buying your building.”  He was a Jewish fellow Sid, and he said “I’m not going to sell the building to you,” he said “I already have it sold I got a deposit on it.”  Then the fellow who talked to him said “Well, when is your contract up?”  “By the end of this 30 day’s it’s over.”  And he said “You will call me on that 30th day and we will buy that building.”

Sid: And now because we’re slipping out of time he did call you; you did buy the building.  One hundred out of one hundred pastors that that would have happened to would have come to the same conclusion you did it was supposed to be for a church.  It’s so essential.  I like the way you put it “We finished God’s statements with our own stinking thinking.”

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