Sid: I am so excited about the new book by Ken & Jeanne Harrington called “Shift.” Why? Because we’re getting ready for the greatest outpouring of God’s Spirit in the history of mankind and the gifts are going to be front and center. But will the gifts be a blessing or will it destroy you? It’s based on your character and Ken in your book you talk about that we’ve found that our thought patterns, which really control us actually start in the womb. Teach a little on that.
Ken: Well, were made up of body, soul and spirit and when we’re first conceived, neither our body nor our soul, which are kind of our mind will and our emotions is mature, but our spirit is. You can actually see that in the Bible where John the Baptist, while he’s still in his mother’s womb, when Mary walked in pregnant with Jesus he leapt in the womb. Why, because his spirit recognized that God had entered the room. So that thought or that aspect that the spirit is actually mature and never changes its growth, it doesn’t have to grow, it’s already mature and it directs all of the thought. Now when, but it’s separated from God, it is the same as the body and soul is, it’s no better it’s just a different entity, what it does for us because it can hear everything that’s going on, obviously as John the Baptist did, then it starts to try to protect this body and soul that it’s encased in and starts to develop the thoughts. So let’s say you’re in a home where there’s constant bickering and fighting, well then the baby inside the spirit starts to say, okay you need to protect yourself, it’s going to be a harsh world, you know when all the yelling starts, just be careful with yourself. We actually had testimonies from people where the baby was conceived illegitimately and the boyfriend didn’t want the baby was trying to encourage an abortion. And the mother actually said that as soon as the father would enter the room and start to talk the baby would stop moving and would not start again until the father left. And when that baby was born, as soon as the father would enter the room as a little room it would kind of go hide. And so that thought pattern was already locked in before it was even born and before it even knew why they didn’t want the relationship with the father, because they were afraid that he was going to kill them.
Jeanne: For myself, I couldn’t understand why I was always looking forward to the future and couldn’t live in the now. Just wanted what was going to come.
Sid: You weren’t able to smell the roses?
Jeanne: No, I was always looking forward, and then I realized I had been conceived out of wedlock and my parents lied and said, that I was premature. I should have been born two months later, and when I realized that I repented before God, and he realigned my time inside my spirit so that I could live in the now and enjoy the now.
Sid: You know, a lot of people suffer from rejection that came because they were conceived out of wedlock and the baby’s really can sense rejection can’t they?
Jeanne: And they take on a shame nature, so they take on blame and shame when it isn’t even there’s. And there is a curse in the Bible in Deuteronomy about this that it makes them feel like they can’t go into the Assembly of God. And that’s what the accuser does, he accuses, but God wants you to come closer to Him, He loves you and if your parents conceived you out of wedlock, it doesn’t forbid you from coming close to God, He so wants you, He so loves you and what you parents did is not your sin.
Sid: You know, one of the things I love about your book is that you point out these supernatural ways of correcting character flaws is the prayer you have at the end of every chapter. How did you come up with that whole concept Ken?
Ken: Actually it was Jeanne, she had felt that all along that too many books just teach, it’s kind a like a monologue and we wanted people to actually interact and so Jeanne would take each chapter and just pray and ask God, you know “How do You want to activate this? What should be our response to God and to these truths?
Jeanne: And so we wanted not to just read, but actually do and we really are firm believers in we get a truth, let’s not just hear it, let’s do. And so when Ken would deal with judgments or I would deal with judgments; when God showed us things about our life we would actually pray and we’ve been counseling a lot of different people and we discovered difference between people and they really grow and go ahead are the ones that actually don’t just learn the stuff, they actually deal with it. They actually do and so where our lives are out of line, out of the plumb line of God’s Word and we have to face God and we have to turn from our sin, our wrong thinking. Some of it isn’t necessarily evil, it’s just our thoughts are not God’s thoughts, our concepts are wrong and we find in the light of the Word, His concepts and we see that our thoughts are opposed to His thoughts then we pray. And we wanted the book to activate what they just read.
Ken: A lot of people think that they have to be full and mature and they have to have everything together before they can do anything, but what I’ve learned even in apprenticeship and everything, is that if I know something and two weeks from now and I’ve done it, I can teach somebody else. So I don’t have to be light years ahead of people, all I have to do is stay two weeks ahead of everybody and I’m still the expert.
Sid: Well, you know you talk about the whole principal of preferring other above yourself; tell me that story about when you were counseling a couple that didn’t like what you were doing and started saying bad things about you, but you didn’t defend yourself.
Jeanne: It was a very awkward situation and there had been adultery involved and people knew them and they were coming to us and they were also trying to breakup other people’s marriages with their relationship. And when we counseled them according to the word, thou shalt not this isn’t right, let’s look at the roots, let’s find why you’re doing these things, they got very irritated and angry and began to spread gossip and say how our counseling was at fault. But we knew because you cannot share what people are going through we couldn’t justify anything, so we just kept silent and prayed and loved. And in the end maybe our reputation suffered for awhile but their marriage was healed and sometimes we have to lay down what’s good for us.
Sid: Was that difficult in not being able to defend yourself, especially when you’re in the right?
Ken: Well, it hurt you but really all it does is a death to your own pride, it’s what I look like. The Bible says that God honors his Word, above His Name, so His Word, being His pledge, His integrity, I give you my word for something; His Name, His reputation. Now if God honor’s His Word, His integrity above His reputation, who am I to be any different and this is what we take. How does God see things so then I can act the same way, because Jesus says, “As I am in this world, so are you.” So and He said, “The things I do, you can do and even greater.”
Sid: When you decided not to defend yourself, did this open a supernatural for the healing of their marriage?
Jeanne: You know, it also opened the door for healing of a couple of other marriages that bang they all went through the same crisis about the same time.
Sid: Do you remember your daughter’s school teacher? Tell me that story quickly.
Jeanne: Yes, it was a daughter that we had adopted that was part Eskimo part Cree and she had a lot of difficulties because she had had a very troubled life before we got her. And so the teacher would counsel her and the teacher would allow her to draw and draw and draw, instead of her doing her school work and then share stories of the teacher’s childhood abuse. And our daughter would come home so discouraged and so distraught and also she wasn’t doing the work because this teacher wasn’t encourages her to do the work. And I tried to talk to the teacher, and one day I phoned and the teacher walked away from the phone and Lord said, don’t hang up. So I waited on the phone for a half hour and when the teacher came back she was shocked I was still on the phone.
Sid: Why did you wait for a half hour?
Jeanne: Because the Lord said not to hang up.
Jeanne: Wanted to be willing to keep the channels open and then the Lord, said arrange for a meeting with the school board but don’t say anything, don’t fight, don’t defend yourself. She was basically saying that we were a very bad parent. And so we arranged to meet with the school board, we arrived on time, the teacher was late, and then she was rushing around not making any logical sense and then she started taking pills to calm herself down and the board member said, we see the problem; and the meeting was over and a week later she resigned. She was having a nervous breakdown. And so I think all her emotional pass was catching up with her but she was transferring it to our daughter which our daughter was failing in all of her classes and passing in all of the other teachers’ classes.
Sid: You know what you teach in your book and that’s a perfect example of it, that the difference between the world and the kingdom of God and you come in the opposite spirit of the enemy to defeat the enemy.
Jeanne: That’s the only thing that works.
Sid: I don’t know of a better way for you to be red hot for the Messiah then for you to see the DVD we are releasing this week, called “Furious Love.” I have the person that put this together, Darren Wilson on the telephone. He’s the one that also put together their “Finger of God” about miracles, but “Furious Love,” Darren you hit a nerve that is so important. I believe that between today and the time that the Messiah returns the world will be getting darker and darker and God’s love will be getting stronger and stronger. That’s what’s going on in the movie, you see this contrast.
Darren: Yeah, but we need to go, that’s the issue and that’s where everything swings. I mean God’s ready God’s ready to pour out His love on everybody. But the problem is that we’re His hands and feet and if we are not willing to go, if we’re not willing and not even necessarily willing going to another country, I mean if we are not even willing to go to go to work and love the person in front of us there, then you know God’s hands are tied, he can’t move. He wants to move through us.
Sid: Well, what’s going to happen when the army of believer’s in North America grab hold of the reality of God’s love? What’s going to happen?
Darren: You are going to see a revolution, that’s what’s going to happen. It’s a full on revolution of love. And with all revolution comes change, right? So you are going to see entire nations changed if we can just, if we can just do what Jesus tells us to do, the world will be changed.
Sid: Well, let’s talk about a place that really needs change and that’s Thailand.
Darren: Thailand was tough; Thailand was probably next to Madrid, the toughest shoot that we had to do just because of the heaviness of the darkness. I mean, we hung out in the heart; I mean the very heart of prostitution and the sex trade for like a week.
Sid: I mean they literally have cities that are built around the industry of sex trade.
Darren: Yeah, Poteail, Thailand is one place we went to where the whole city was built before Vietnam was a little fishing village of like forty families and Vietnam became the big R&R stop for American soldier and prostitution built the whole city. It is literally a city built of prostitution and it was rough. You want to talk about the levels of darkness in situations that are not easy, they are not really easy to fix, talk about the sex trade in Thailand; it was brutal. But the same time, God continues to show up. It is like as long as we are faithful, He’ll show his love. And that’s one thing; there was a moment that is in the film where we were praying for a lady boy, in Thailand.
Sid: This is a young boy that grows they’re hair long and dresses like a woman.
Darren: Yeah, there either transsexual, transvestites, kind a kind like weird and not really sure what’s what. But, yes, so there’s this kid that we kind of stuck up a conversation with and we’re actually able to pray for him. And we had an interpreter with us, so we were talking to this kid and he understood that something real was going on because every bar area where you go into find the prostitutes have something called like a bar mom. And basically like, they’re like I guess you call them something like the bar pimps or something like that. They are the people who are in charge of the girls and the boys and everything kind of goes to the bar mom. It was interesting at one point, Will Heart who was with us and he was kind of the evangelist friend of mine who was doing a lot of the ministering. He struck up a conversation with this bar mom and she actually prayed for healing of her stomach and her back and she was totally healed and she actually came to the Lord, she accepted Jesus right then and there. And it was wild, and then all of a sudden we started talking to this lady-boy and the bar mom is telling this lady-boy just looking. He understood that something was going on, like this is real and then we started talking to him and we realized we all notices that he was wearing a necklace and it has a cross on it and he told us that yes, I grew up in the church, I took; I remember I took the blood of Jesus and the bread of Jesus and I wear this cross to remind of that. It struck me like God branded this kid, you know even an experience as a child, it…
Sid: You know the average Christian in America if they bumped into a kid like this they would want nothing to do with him; you know that.
Darren: Oh yeah, it is very uncomfortable; you know the whole place is uncomfortable. And we don’t want, it’s too messy and it’s too dirty and we don’t want to get out hands dirty. But at the same time he’s a human being and He’s God’s child, and that’s what…the thing that struck me as I filmed this scene; I remember thinking like, this is what His love looks like, it is not a Hallmark Card, it’s not a Christian bookstore. His love is for this individual at this point in time and it’s; never going to change.
Sid: I thought that it was so phenomenal the way the way you shared God’s love, you captured God’s love as you were talking to this young man, but tell me …about Indonesia, I’m really intrigued by this Pastor Philip.
Darren: Yeah, Philip Muntofa, I met this guy and I have met a lot of people at this place, I met a lot of really impressive people, humble people who are walking in great power and great humility and just love the Lord. I’ve yet to meet anybody who impresses me as much as Philip Muntofa who impresses me.
Sid: How large is this church and what percentage is under thirty years of age?
Darren: Yeah, his church in Indonesia is about 30,000, has about 30,000 members. It is a big huge mega church. Philip’s thirty-three years old and he actually among his leadership of the churches, 80% of them are under thirty years of age.
Sid: What a courageous young man. Tell me that story about the witch doctor that he took a group and stood in front of the witch doctor’s house and started pointing his finger towards that house, saying “Repent or else!”
Darren: Yeah, this witch doctor you told me about, this is another story where I’m like, just took it to a whole other level of what we are up against and this is a very famous witch doctor and he’s since past away but, this is probably about ten years ago and he would hold festivals every year in his own honor and he had like twenty-seven wives. And what he would do he’d call one of his wives up and he would like slit her throat, he’d kill his wife and then he would raise her from the dead and then he’d take a knife and cut open his stomach. And he would like bite on his own intestines and he’d die and then they would bury him and three days later he would raise himself from the dead. I mean this is like total blasphemy.
Sid: Ha, I remember, the young man that was blown out of the water with just a miracle. What happened to you when you heard this?
Darren: I was like are you kidding me, I was like this is…everybody knew about this guy, he was like one of the those famous witch doctors in the Pacific rim and thousands of people would go to these festivals and see him do these amazing feats. And so Philip, Philip is the most courageous, not afraid of anything. But he only does what the Lord tells him to do and so he went to this guy house, took a team and every day he’d go the this guys house and he’d stand outside and he would just pray and they would pray for this witch doctor and they would say like repent or else. You need to repent; you can’t keep doing these things. And one night this witch doctor had a dream and in the dream Jesus came to him and he was dressed in white and he actually said He was Jesus and He said, “I want you to go to that church down the road and it was Phillip’s church; I want you to go that church and I want you to become a follower of mine, to be a Christian. And the witch doctor had an argument with Jesus in this dream, and he said, “Why would I do that he said, I’m more powerful then all those Christians. I worked my whole life to gain all this power.” Jesus said, “You will do it because I am their God, I am the one living God and you will do it because I’m the one God.” And he said, “No, I’m not going to do it.” Like I’m too powerful, and Jesus said, “Okay well then I’m going to take your power away.” And in this dream He tapped him on the shoulder and the guy woke up and a he felt a hand leave his shoulder as he woke, and all of his powers were gone. I think he waited like three days and he kept trying to do miraculous things. He couldn’t do anything. And so he was so freaked out he went to the church, he talked to Philip, the guy became a Christian instantly. They baptized him and I think it was something like five days later he died.
Sid: You know I am so intrigued by the documentation you do on this Pastor Philip in Indonesia, but what is the key to his power?
Darren: Yeah, and that’s what is so impressive, I’ve never met anybody so obsessed with holiness. You know you meet, you know this, you meet a lot of different people Sid, and you know something happens I think sometimes to people and there’s this constant tension between doing great things for the Lord and trying to keep yourself in a place of holiness and humbleness. We’re seeing it just turn on the news and you see Christian leaders falling all the time from a lack of holiness, right. And this Philip, his whole mantra is I want to be able to call the Holy Spirit by His first name.
Sid: Oh, were out of time.
Sid: One new man and this new man will release the full glory, the full love of God and that’s where planet earth is at this moment in history. And I believe that God has directed Darren Wilson, who we’ve previously had on as a guest because he did the DVD “Finger of God” which showed the greatest skeptic the reality of the miracles of God. But his latest DVD, which is called “Furious Love” is about a divine search for the literally to capture on film the love of God, which is quite an assignment for anyone. And so Darren Wilson went to the darkest places on planet earth, I mean he went to Thailand and did some work on their prostitution and the love of God that you captured in Thailand. But I want to talk about today Darren is something that again most Christians would have a great deal of difficulty with, because another thing that you accomplish in your film is showing the reality of the war that’s going on between light and darkness. And of course I love the fact that light wins; God’s love wins every time. So tell me about the bride of Satan.
Darren: So this is the really, really weird interview that I did. And this is one, you have to understand something I think that people need to understand because I know that this is going to be the story that I’m probably going to get in a lot of trouble for from different members of the church because I know that there is some controversy over you know satanic stuff and satanic ritual abuse and stuff. But basically I only interview people who come highly, highly referred to me. I don’t interview anybody ever who asks me to do an interview with them. That’s my number one rule, so I somebody else needs to tell me about you. But this particular woman who use to be a Satanist, a very high up Satanist had become a Christian and a number of my friends who I trust with my literally my life and my career, they all said that you’ve got to talk to this girl, she is incredible. And so basically we did and it took awhile, it was hard for her to really open because this isn’t fun stuff for her to talk about. So basically we sat down and interviewed her and I was able to interview her and I was also able to interview the woman who did the deliverance on her; so we got kind of both sides of the story. But this girl was actually born into Satanism, she was actually a child of a prophecy from Anton LaVey who created the church of Satan and she actually grew up with Anton and was best friends with his daughter. And she literally grew up and the prophecy that was given to her was that she was going to be when she turned seventeen; she was to train from the time that she was born till her seventeen birthday to become one of the five brides of Satan. And basically without getting too graphic how you become a bride of Satan is there is a big ceremony and your seventeenth birthday and you have to actually have to sleep with Satan and that seals the deal and your basically only five ever like on the planet. And so she was supposed to one of them and they got radically, radically saved months before this event was to take place and she has been basically living in hiding ever since. We had to cover everything, we couldn’t show her face.
Sid: I know I noticed you covered that up well.
Darren: We couldn’t even reveal where we were doing the interview and she’s constantly, still to this day because she knows everything about Satanism. I mean she knows all of the major players, she knows how they work, how they operate. They all want her dead, so that was one we had to be really, really careful with that interview.
Sid: Well, tell me about her, especially about her deliverance.
Darren: Yeah, well, her deliverance she basically she decided, she knew that she had to get out of Satanism because it started, actually this is not in the film, it started that one of her best friends was killed; was beaten to death because her best friend wanted to leave the covenant; wanted to leave Satanism. And she said, that I’ve got to get out of here like if they did that to my friend, I’m going to screw-up and they are going to sacrifice me. And it was interesting, again this is all kind of, this is back story but she went to a crusade of a prominent Christian, she was going to curse, three friends were going to curse this person. And in the middle of this big crusade the speaker stopped, looked up into the third balcony and said you three witches stop cursing me. And it rebounded on her and she started to manifest and she said I had never experienced power like that before, she had experienced power but she was like, for the first time in her life she experienced power that was greater than the power that she had been given through the devil. And it was God’s power and that kind of woke her up to like that there’s something else out there that’s more real that’s more powerful than what I’ve been taught my whole life. And so basically it’s a long story short she gets sent to this woman named Angelia who has done thousands upon thousands of deliverances and gets sent to house to basically receive deliverance. And so she is the kind of person that she can move things without touching things kind of thing so she flings the door open without touching the handle. And Angela took one look at her and said, “I don’t think so Babe,” and it was on but from there it didn’t take you know; Angelia asked the angels to hold her down and it didn’t take 5 hours; didn’t take seven days. She said, “It took like 20 minutes and she was completely totally delivered.
Sid: You know now, I understand from hearing her testimony that when she came in flinging that door open and Angela must be a pretty interesting person to what did she say? “I don’t think so, Babe” Ha-ha. And it’s like she literally, she displays that type of power, she has for what I understand she has no white in her eyes, just pitch blackness.
Darren: Yeah, we call her Esther in the film; we had to change her name as well. When she showed up her eyes were completely black. Anglia said, “That it was one of the weirdest freakiest things that she has ever seen.” And Esther you know could very well, could see into the spirit realm very very easily and the whole time that she was with Angelia she just kept noticing she couldn’t look Anglia in the eyes because her eyes were piercing with light. And she’s just, and their piercing with love. And it was like the demons kept trying to turn her head because they didn’t want her to look at the light. They didn’t want her to look at that love because they understood, you know they had access to her heart and understood that that was influencing her because that was very, very attractive to her, that love which she had never experienced ever. And you know that is what ultimately lead her to saying yes, I want Jesus.
Sid: But to see the top Satanist’s, one of the top Satanist’s in the world fall under the power of God’s love, what power we have.
Darren: Yeah, it’s incredible, it is absolutely incredible.
Sid: And that’s what I want our listeners to see…I mean we’ve; lives a sheltered life, it’s time that we see what this world is really like. It’s time we understand the war that’s going on in the invisible world and it’s time we start operating in the type of power that literally set one of the top witches in the world free in a matter of how many minutes?
Darren: In about twenty. Ha-Ha.
Sid: And I mean that’s the top one, so when people here in America, that are just normal people we should be able to set them free in about thirty seconds. Ha-ha.
Sid: What would you say you really learned from doing this DVD, “Furious Love?”
Darren: Well, again I learned, it wasn’t so much a learning experience, I mean as far as what I learned was that the depths of depravity and the depths of the darkness; but also the depths of God’s love. And that was really, it was more of an experience and I feel like the earlier reactions were getting through people who watch the movie is that that’s what their all saying, that it’s more of a movie; it’s more like an experience. Like they’re experiencing something that many of them, most of them never experienced to actually feel what the love looks like. Not just to see it, but to feel it because it’s so real and it is so palatable. And that for me while filming it, obviously that’s the thing that sticks with me and will stick with me until the day I die which is the really knowing like not just in my head. Knowing deep in my heart, deep in my spirit how much he cares for me. Yeah, how much God loves me and no matter what I do, I can’t change that.
Sid: That’s where you came up with that title “Furious Love.” It really is a furious love that God has for humanity. Why do you think, what you captured was reality, why do you think that we’re like in a bubble here America?
Darren: Ha-ha. I think we’re just distracted to be quite honest with you. I think that we’ve have too much other things going on.
Sid: The cares of this world?
Darren: Yeah, when I go into other countries, they don’t have near the distractions, the entertainment, the ease of getting around, the ease of doing whatever you want to do. They don’t have any money, they don’t have any. And so to them it’s all about spirit realm, you know because that’s where stuff happens. And here in the west, you know we believe in naturalism and everything has an explanation. And whereas in other countries they don’t them and they just understand that the spirit realm is real and spirits are real and miracles happen because they see them every day and they just become, you know very normal. But were just, I just think that it is really, really distracted and we focus on, we do everything we can to just keep our focus away from tough decisions we have to make that are spiritual.
Sid: So few Christians has seen the reality of the war that is going on above us.
Sid: And I have to tell you, when you see Darren Wilson’s brand new DVD titled “Furious Love” you will be, you’ll never be lukewarm again, never ever. Darren would you agree with that?
Darren: I would sure hope so.
Sid: I mean, because you literally have caught on film the reality of darkness that few people have seen, and we’ll be talking about some of those things this week. And by the way if you miss any of these radio interviews go on our web and catch the days that you’ve missed. It’s Sid Roth.org, It’s easy Sidroth.org. I can’t wait to talk about of the things that I saw in that video but the power of God’s love over…You found the darkest things on the face of planet earth and God’s love was stronger. But yesterday we were talking about you went to what is know as to me any way the home of witchcraft in America, Salem, Massachusetts for a Witchcraft Festival. What was that like?
Darren: Well, we thought it was going to be a big fight and that’s what I’d gone there for I had gone…
Sid: Yeah, you want to capture a confrontation between Jason Westerfield who moves in just the most sensational miracles and a witch, that’s what you were looking for right?
Darren: Yeah, and basically at some point in the evening we just set up our camera, nothing was working all day and then we just finally figured you know what? Let’s just stop trying to, you know sneak up on people and pray for them.
Sid: I was surprised you are so honest in the film; you showed praying for people and nothing happening.
Darren: Yeah, that’s my one thing that I try to do, at the very least I want to make sure I’m giving you an honest portrayal of what happened. I’m not about; I don’t like to hype things up. So yeah basically nothing’s happening and so we just realize that just make a spectacle of ourselves, put the camera in the middle of the festival and invite people and we’ll pray for them and see what happens. And so towards the end of the night we’re praying and these group of guys come up and one of them was very obviously a practicing witch, you can tell by how he was dressed. Ha-ha-ha. And yeah, we basically Jason said, “I’m going to basically pray and I’m going to see what God wants to say to you,” and he stopped him; the witch did, and he said, “Before you begin I want to know what medium will you be using to speak to your God?”
Sid: That was wild, I saw that.
Darren: Well, when he said that I’m filming and I’m oh this is going to be good you know, and so Jason says, “You know I’m going to talk to Jesus and He’s the way to the Father.” And he said, “Oh Jesus, then you can pray, that’s cool.” Cause, that’s one thing that we learned about witches what I didn’t know, most of them are pretty cool with Jesus.
Sid: I was surprised, I thought that would have been the big confrontation, well that was what I was thinking was going to happen next.
Darren: Well what we learned that witches, they think Jesus is a pretty cool guy, because He doesn’t judge them. What they don’t like is the church. They don’t like Christian things, because most of them and this is what we really discovered, most of the people that are in like Wicca and different kinds of you know witchcraft and stuff they have been burned by the church and usually they have been burned by somebody in the church. They’ve been hurt by the church, they have been hurt by somebody in authority in the church and so they don’t want anything to do with the church. But they have nothing bad to say about Jesus. It’s His followers that they don’t like. Which is very very disheartening, ha to hear. But anyway, so Jason starts to pray for this guy and I’m like okay, I’m finally I’m going to get my confrontation, here we go I know I have a witch in front of me let’s do it. And Jason very very prophetic guy, I mean really really accurate and he just started prophesying over this individual and every word that came out of his mouth was a word of love. Everything that he said! I remembering him saying things to this guy like, “I’m going to bless you and I know this about you and this about you and this about you and I’m going to bless that area because I love you and I’m going to”…and never once did the Lord say that if you turn to me will I do this for you. It was always, “I will do this for you because I love you because you’re my son.” And I remember I’m filming this and the Lord spoke to me as clear as day and I know whenever he speaks to me when I’m filming I know that it is suppose to be in the movie. And he said to me, “Do you see, do you see what I came here for? I did not come here to pick a fight, I came here to love.” And it rocked me on my heals and it was, I mean I had tears streaming down my face as I was filming the scene. At the end the guy that Jason just goes to pray for and the guy says, “Hold on, you know let me,” he uncovers his head as a sign of respect.
Sid: I saw that, that was so touching is the best word, I can describe.
Darren: Yeah, I mean the guy was obviously, and afterwards he turned to my crew, this isn’t in the movie, but he turned to my crew afterwards and pointed to Jason and he said, “That man is anointed, that man is anointed.” And so I don’t know what happened to the guy, I mean I remember thinking I’m going to get in a lot of trouble because we didn’t get salvations on film, but the Lord spoke to me on the flight home and said, “This wasn’t about salvation, this is about me showing what my love looks like; and he said, don’t worry I’m going to take care of them, I’m going to take care of that man and the people that I touch. I’m going after their hearts.” And so at that point I said, “Leave it up to the Lord.”
Sid: You show things that most people don’t even have a clue, yet there in the Bible. For instance I remember this is kind of like in a side when you are talking about the film starts out with in Tanzania with a demon possessed girl and this white tent where they bring all the people that have demons so that they’ll be cast out of them. My sister, Shirley actually is Jewish, which I am also came to the Lord because I took her to a deliverance meeting. This guy by the name of Dr. Derrick Prince who is now in Heaven and when I took her there she was going for a show and all of a sudden she started shrieking at the top of her lungs and some woman walks up to her and says “Name yourself.” Now I was brand new, I didn’t know what was going on and I heard out of my sister’s mouth, “Fear.” And then the woman cast the demon of fear out. My sister was digging her fingernail, she’s a school teacher, a refined dignified person, you know and she’s digging her fingernails into the palms of her hands, screeching at the top of her lungs. Her husband who is also Jewish, a CPA didn’t know what to do and once she saw the confrontation with darkness and was set free she’s stuck with Jesus ever since. Ha.
Darren: Yeah, and that the thing we found over and over again as I went and filmed these things and I heard these stories. I knew that there was darkness and I think I even say this in the movie, I knew that there was darkness; I had no idea of the level of darkness that there was, that was what really shocked me and changed me forever, that’s for sure.
Sid: What about the flip side, “Did you have any idea of the tenacity of God’s love?”
Darren: That’s what was so wonderful and I think that makes the movie so powerful. It doesn’t matter however dark the darkness gets the light shines brighter. You know, there’s a great line from the film where Annie Dieselberg, who is a missionary in the sex trade in Thailand where she says “This place looks like Disneyland for the spirit world but, you know because of that you know, darkness rages all around us but because of that the love of Christ rages even more. And it’s a great tag line to the movie, it’s what it is, His love rages much, much more than the darkness rages.
Sid: You know I can’t wait for large numbers of people to see this particular DVD, but you’ve had a few people watch it even before it’s come out. And tell me about this one girl, the effect it had on her when she saw the film; she just started weeping, how long did she cry?
Darren: Two days. Yeah, she started crying actually as the movie, I think she started crying as the movie started, she just started to weep; she cried all day and then she went to bed she woke up the next day and she started crying again. And she told me later that God was doing some really deep inner healing in her because she’d never seen, she never witnessed like…
Sid: We are in such a sheltered life here in America.
Darren: Yeah, well, I think what it is is that the American church, the western church our understanding of God’s love, this is how it was for me, the understanding of God’s love is stuck in our brain. You know, its one thing for me to you know, it’s like I kind a like until like you get married. I could go my whole life if I just constantly tell my wife that I love her and she constantly tells me that she loves me and we just, that’s all we ever do though. We just say we love each other and that’s it but we never embrace; what kind of a relationship is that? You know it’s in the embrace where you discover like exactly where like the two spirits meet and that’s where you really feel love. And I don’t think a lot of the western church has felt the Father’s love. They know it in their head, but it has yet to reach their heart, and that’s a process for me anyway, that’s when I learned it. The same way with miracles, it went from my head to my heart. This is the same thing as…
Sid: Speaking of miracles in the film I see you praying for someone and they get healed, did you ever in your wildest imagination think you’d be doing that?
Darren: Well, not in that particular instance that was, that’s kind of embarrassing to actually have to admit in the film, but I got to be honest. So it was funny because it was, for those of you who have seen “Finger of God” the end of the movie when I’m praying for the homeless guy that was one time in my life, before I knew without a shadow of doubt that the guy was going to be healed; there is no question and it’s funny here. I am at the beginning of filming for “Furious” and there’s no way that this guy is going to be healed because all these other people have been praying for him for his knee and nothing had happened and then they say. I’m filming and their like “Darren, do you want to pray for him?” Of course I didn’t because it’s like scary but I can’t say no so I get down there and the whole time I’m just wondering how long do I have to do this for, it like I’m doing perfunctory prayers. Like it is like I have no faith at all that God’s going to do anything for this guy and so I think I’ve done it long enough so I just looked at the interpreter and said, “Okay, I think I’m done.” And he asked the guy and the guy says, “Totally healed, 100% feels great.” I’m just like, are you kidding me? And then that’s when God showed me man, My love is not contingent on your belief in it, it does doesn’t matter if you believe in My love because my love is the reality that you can’t…
Sid: Speaking of God’s love, what happened to that individual when the altar call was given?
Darren: First one with his hand up. He was the first one into the Kingdom; he was like I want to be the first! It was so cool.
Sid: You know, there is so many things you touch on that a lot of Christians don’t even talk about, but it’s time to be real; we got a real world out there. And here’s the deal; if this kind of love will trump the darkness that we see in that movie, we don’t see darkness like that in the United States. Image what that kind of love would do in the United States.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to move in God’s furious love and that’s the name of a brand new DVD Movie that we’re making available this week by Darren Wilson. And I have Darren on the telephone, you may be familiar with him because he did the DVD “Finger of God” about miracles and it was…You know Darren one of the things that I like about you is you don’t have heirs or facades. I mean, you know you just call it for what it is; and I think when people hear you they realize that you’re really a credible person, I can trust this person. Because some of the miracles you documented in “Finger of God” were off the chart you know dead people coming back to life, gold teeth being materialized. And everyone expected you to do a follow-up film with miracles after “Finger of God, but you were instructed by God to show the war that’s going on between darkness and light. And that the only way you can win, and by the way the closer we get to the return of the Messiah the greater that war is going to be. And the only way that you can win is through love. But then the question that you had to be just pondering over and over in your head is “How do you film love?”
Darren: Yeah, that was the big question and that’s the question that a lot of people ask me and you know people were they thought that it sounded like a good concept. But you know I could tell that there was something in their comments like, “good luck.”
Sid: Ha-ha well, well and I’m sure you felt as uneasy about this second film as you did about the first film, maybe more.
Darren: Yeah, I did, there’s a moment and its funny because the Lord just reminded me of this, actually this morning as I was having devotions and now I kind of think I know why. But there is a moment that I was about to head to Indonesia and this was again, towards the beginning of filming Furious and when you travel a lot of times to these other countries I don’t really, most of the time I don’t know what I’m going to go film. It is not like I go with some grand agenda all of the time, I usually just go and I’m going to hook up with one or two ministries and like we’ll see what God wants to do. But this, going to Indonesia was different because I didn’t, it totally was a referral from somebody that I trusted and I just couldn’t get the information that I needed and I’m spending literally tens of thousands of dollars to get my whole crew to go to Indonesia to film. And I remember it is like four days before were leaving and I still don’t know what I’m going for. I don’t know what I’m going to go film. And I remember having a conversation, I was walking my dog, I love how God shows up at the weirdest places, walking my dog on the pathway outside of my house and I’m fighting with him, “I’m like God this is ridiculous, Iike I’m spending I don’t know how much money you’re making me spend on this and I don’t even know why I’m going. You’re not telling me anything, I’m just in the dark I’m like, how am I supposed to make a movie like this?” And He stopped me in my tracks, you know sometimes God speaks to you and it’s those suddenly almost?
Darren: He hit you with an answer as soon as you ask Him a question, and it was that exact same thing happened to me. He says, “Whose movie is this?” And I said, “Well it’s yours, and He said “Do you want it to be my movie do you want me to make this movie or do you want to make this movie?” And I said look, I’ve tried to do my own thing for thirty years, you know. And he said “Who made “Finger of God?” I said, “You did.” He said, “How did that turn out?” Ha-ha, I said, “It turned out pretty good and then He said, “Just trust me.” And that was a major, major moment for me, for making this movie because so much of this film had to be made on the idea that of I had to trust God. Because He gave me permission to put His love to the test and that’s how we found love, we just went to the darkest places we could find. I said, “I want to see are You going to love these people, are you going to love that person?” And I said, and we just had to trust that He would show up and if He didn’t show up it is going to look really really bad for God you know. So I just had to place all of my trust in His hands and I said, “Alright, this is Your movie, I don’t want to take control, you take control.” And from that moment on it was, I’m not going to say clear sailing but it was a lot easier to walk into the darkness.
Sid: So you went to the darkest parts of the world and you proved that God’s love was stronger. Speaking of dark places, I’m just curious what kind of…what was going on inside of you, you were with a friend of mine that I have interviewed also by the name of Jeff Jansen in Tanzania and they had a special tent, tell me about that.
Darren: Yea, the movie opens with this and it gets your attention that’s for sure. It got my attention, because we went to film with Jeff, I was kind of doing a favor; I was kind of thinking I think I’ll start my movie here. But I wasn’t really sure and so I was going to go out there and he was doing a big crusade in Tanzania and you know he asked if I would be willing to come along and help his guys’ film and I said, “Yeah, can I bring my crew?” So we went out there and you know I’m expecting big crusade lots of miracles I mean that’s what I’ve always encountered and I noticed when we got there, there is this little white tent off to the side and I’m thinking “What’s that?” And I’m just you know, I’m from normal church back ground so I wonder if that’s where they put the hearing impaired or something?
Darren: You know, ha-ha that was literally what I was thinking. And so then I remember like the first day of the crusade you know Jeff there’s this salvation call and Jeff prays a prayer and all of the sudden all of these people start you know, manifesting demonic. And they start carrying all these people over to this white tent and I’m like oh, man that’s what that is. The demon tent, that is where they do the deliverance and so I’m like well let’s go and I was so naïve making this movie it is the funniest thing in the world. But I just walked over with my camera, walked in the tent and it was the most shocking thing I had ever seen in my life. And most people, when you watch the film I think you’ll be pretty shocked too. I certainly never had encountered anything like that.
Sid: But you focused in on one specific girl, tell me about her.
Darren: Yeah that was, I call her Abercrombie girl and we learned her name later but I still like Abercrombie girl because she wearing an Abercrombie sweatshirt, but I remember it was three days before I left for Tanzania and I was waking up one morning and you’re in that in between state you’re not quite awake but you’re not quite asleep you are just kind of groggy and I remember I was in that kind of state and I just got this picture it was literally like I was watching a movie and I saw this picture of this woman’s face kind of like screaming and kind of going back and forth and screaming her head off and I remember thinking, that’s really weird. And then I remember waking up and kind of forgot about it.
Sid: Now you’re normally not prone having all these visions and things like that.
Darren: No, what you’re hearing from me is like these are the only things that ever happen to me. Ha-ha.
Sid: Okay, so you have this vision of this young woman screaming her head off three days before you get there and what do you see in Tanzania?
Darren: So I walk into the white tent and I’m looking around and I look down and I see this girl whose rising around screaming as they’re trying to cast out the demon and I’m like that’s the girl I saw three days ago in like this dream vision thing. And so it was the most surreal real thing I’ve ever had happen to me while filming. I literally, I just open my camera up, I crouch down and I knew exactly where to put the camera, I knew exactly how to frame it, because I had seen it before; it was just like; I was just going from memory. And so when you see that at the beginning of the film…
Sid: Is that sort of like Jesus said, I only do what I see my Heavenly Father doing?
Darren: Could be, I don’t know because maybe it explains the ease that he did so many things because he had seen it done before you know. But, it was wild and that’s when I finally understood, I’m like okay the Lord wants this movie to get made.
Sid: But you have to tell the end result of the Abercrombie girl.
Darren: Oh yeah, well you save that for the end of the movie, just make sure you stick around for the credits.
Sid: Okay, we won’t give that one away. Everything that you saw, what do you think was the highlight if you could come up with such, to me each segment is a highlight; but for you, what was the high light?
Darren: Definitely in Salem that’s when we went to a witchcraft and occult festival in Salem, Massachusetts.
Sid: Now, weren’t you a little afraid going in there?
Darren: No, no I was never afraid, we were never afraid going anywhere, we were warned so many times when we go some place, we had hidden cameras everywhere. Supposedly the most dangerous place we went was Thailand in the heart of the sex trade in Thailand; they warned us if we get caught they will throw us off a roof. But by the end of the week we had literally like, the prostitutes were helping us film, like that’s like the kind of favor we had everywhere we went, we had no fear anywhere.
Sid: Was Salem the place where you had that African American man that had like a red hood over his head?
Darren: Yeah, yeah.
Sid: Oh that was amazing, that was amazing,
Darren: Yeah, that’s the reason it is most important for me, that’s the moment I got the thesis for the film. When I make these movies there very personal films because they’re my journey and I never know what the journey is going to be; I don’t how how it’s going to be mapped out. And so I went to, I thought that my job was to make the most entertaining movie I could make and basically I was going to have lots and lots of confrontations with the darkness. You know we are going to have big battles and things are going to be great for the camera and God’s going to show up and God’s going to win the day every day. So that’s what, in the beginning that’s what I thought that was what I was going to be filming. So we went to Salem with Jason Westerfield, who is in “Finger of God” people may remember him.
Sid: And I’ve also interviewed him on television and radio, but go ahead.
Darren: Yeah, so we went there and I went there, I’ll be really honest. I went there to pick a fight. There was no if ands or buts I wanted to have a throw down with…
Sid: A confrontation with the witch or something?
Darren: Yeah, yeah and that’s what we were ready to do we were all ready to do it. But we got there and we all just started creeping around and trying to pray for people and nothing was happening, like ever! And Jason was so nonplused because you know he turned to me at one point he said, “I don’t understand because God’s here, I can feel; His Spirit is here but he’s not releasing healing, he’s not releasing anything.
Sid: Oops were out of time.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah and operate in furious love. I love that, that’s the title of a brand new DVD that’s just out by Darren Wilson. For those of you that are not familiar with Darren Wilson, he is the one that put out “Finger of God.” And Darren, that was such an amazing testimony; here you have studied your life to be a writer; you never saw yourself as putting films together and you started; God started dealing with you about this, but it really took a supernatural encounter at the Toronto Airport Church to get you moving on something that was out of your comfort zone.
Darren: Yeah. Yeah, it was a yeah I think it was the only thing that was going to get to make a movie like that because I was pretty skeptical of the supernatural before I started making “Finger of God.” And so He, I guess He sent an Angel to you know to…
Sid: For those that haven’t’ heard, I want to hear this for me; I want to hear that story again; you’re sitting in a church and all of a sudden someone says, “There’s an angel there,” what was your reaction?
Darren: Yeah, well I was already uncomfortable, because for those people that don’t know much about the church it’s a, it’s a, you know fairly charismatic and I’m not really the most charismatic person in the world.
Sid: It’s the Toronto Airport Church. Ha-ha.
Darren: And so I was there because, and the reason I was there was my whole family had been really touched by God’s outpouring that had been going on there so they kind of bribed me into going. And so I was there and I was very uncomfortable and I wasn’t quite sure if this was even of God or you know that if this is just emotionalism or what? And then so this speaker gets on stage and interrupts worship, which again I thought was really rude and you know, he said, “That there’s an angel that has entered the building and his name is Breakthrough and my first thought was, “Yeah right.”
Darren: Yeah, it’s kind of the thing that pushed me over the edge of like, “I’m never coming back here. This place is…
Sid: If you could have gotten out discreetly, you would have?
Darren: Ha-ha, if my wife wouldn’t have pulled me right back in, I would have left. But yes, five minutes later I was trying to worship and so I just closed my eyes so that I didn’t have to see you know all the charismatic stuff that was going on in front of me. And this figure walks in front of me and I just saw this kind of like somebody walks past you and when your eyes are closed you can tell like the light changes kind of thing. So I just reflectively opened my eyes because I was kind of in the back and I thought that that was odd that somebody would be walking by me and there wasn’t anybody there and I thought that was strange. So I closed them again and the figure was still there. I could only see it with my eyes closed and it was just standing there; I could see the outline of his form with my eyes closed and he turned to me walked up to me asked me three times are you ready, and I had no idea what he was talking about. But I grew up in a church and so I knew that if an angel asked you a question you say yes and you find out later what it’s all about. I just remember that he was so so so intense, he was just like I remember at one point he’s talking to me and he’s so like just crackling with intensity. And he’s asking me are you ready? And I remember thinking that this guy wants to breakthrough a wall and that’s when I put the puzzle pieces together and I realized that old guy that had just got on stage and said, “An angel named “Breakthrough has just entered the building.” And I finally realized that he was telling the truth, because I have this presence in front of me. And at the end of basically asked me three times “If I was ready and each time I said, “Yes.” At the end I said, “Ready for what, what are you talking about?” And he just looked at me and he said, “Make that movie,” and it was “Finger of God.” And so that’s what at that point I was kind of like…
Sid: Well, that movie, “Finger of God” not only changed your life forever, but its changing people’s lives all over the world. What, looking back in retrospect, after you did this movie of people being raised from the dead and gold teeth, this was a relative of yours that got gold teeth.
Darren: Yeah, my Aunt and my Uncle, both of them.
Sid: What effect would say in a couple of sentences this film has had on people that have seen it?
Darren: Well, I can only speak to the ones that get back to me and universally I’d say 99% of the feedback that I get which at this point it’s reaching 100’s to 1,000’s. People are utterly transformed, they’ve kind of like they’ve rediscovered the God of the Bible; and some of them they’ve discovered Him for the first time. Lots of people have been healed just by watching it. Lots of churches have been kind of turned upside down; so it’s been pretty radical, it’s the most humbling thing that’s ever happened to me, that’s for sure.
Sid: I would think anyone that doesn’t believe in miracles would have to re-exam their thinking after seeing that video. But so then you’re just about finished with the “Finger of God” video and Heidi Baker, who I’ve interviewed a number of times and boy her ministry has seen a lot of resurrections from the dead. How many do they estimate?
Darren: I don’t know, I haven’t talked to them in probably a year and half or so but last count I knew that it was over three hundred, last count.
Sid: Three, did you get that, 300 people that were dead came back to life and they have some pretty rigorous requirements, it’s not just someone that they think that is dead, they know these people that have died, is that your understanding?
Darren: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah I think that it’s the kind of thing that if they are not dead for more than four hours, they’re not dead.
Sid: Ha-ha. So Heidi gives you a prophecy just as you finish the video of the movie “The Finger of God.”
Darren: Yeah, basically actually I hadn’t even finished putting the movie together, that’s the funny part of all of this. We were in Istanbul, I had just finished filming, it was the last thing I filmed for the movie was with Heidi in Istanbul with the gypsies. And so I remember I was on the bus ride back to the hotel and I was starting to have a nervous breakdown because and I’m sitting there thinking that I have over 100 hours of footage and I don’t have anything; I don’t have a story; I didn’t film anything of worth, you know the enemy was just piling it on and I was starting to hyperventilate and near bursting into tears. My wife is looking at me and is like “What’s wrong with you?” and so I remember I talked with Heidi and just kind of explained that I’m having a tough time here, I don’t know what is going on but. So basically that night we all went out to dinner, me and Heidi and the whole team and she king of put me in the middle and had everybody pray for me. And so at one point she comes up and she starts to pray for me and you know she starts out like you know just a nice prayer, “God bless him and show him what to do and blah blah blah.” And you have to understand at this point the next movie was nowhere on my radar; I didn’t even think I was going to be able to put the first movie together; I had no thought about a movie. And so she’s praying for me and all of sudden she like stops and she hesitates in her prayer and I think I even opened my eyes and looked at her like what’s going on? And you could tell, I could tell she was seeing something in the Spirit that was disturbing her, it wasn’t, I started to get worried at this point and she says, “Darren I don’t know what this means or I’m just going to tell you what I see what I feel the Lord is saying, I see you filming the occult, I see you filming the demonic.” And my first thought was, ought oh, ha-ha-ha. You know, that’s not what I want to do. “But then she said, “But this is what the Lord says you have to go into the darkness to show the light.” I remember I talked to her afterwards and then she kept on with her prayer. I went to her afterward and I said, “What does that mean, have to go into the darkness to show the light?” She said, “I have no idea, that is just what the Lord, but I heard it just as clear as anything I have ever heard.”
Sid: And did you have any idea at that point?
Darren: No clue, no clue I’m like I have to go film the demonic, I don’t want to film the demonic.
Sid: No, who wants to even touch that? But then you went back to that same church in Toronto and you had a vision and this vision clarified the prophetic word you got from Heidi Baker.
Darren: Yeah, I was back at the church, I had a couple of things left, I had to do just one last little interview with John and Carol Arnott, the Head Pastors of the church and remember I was just enjoying worship that night. We were worshiping and I wasn’t even thinking about anything. I wasn’t thinking about the movies or anything, I was just trying to worship the Lord. And the best way I could describe it is occasionally He’ll give me these downloads and it’s the only way I can describe it where He just kind of plops everything all at once into my head and it’s kind of what happened at that point when He just, He hit me so hard with this idea, I guess you could call it, that it actually like slammed me back into my seat. I was kind of startled because it came out of nowhere and it was basically the very, it was two phrases, but those two phrases just put everything together and that’s what I understood that I had to do next. And the two phrases were show them that there’s a war happening and it’s a war between darkness and light and then show them that the only way they can win this war is through love. And that’s when I knew, and then it’s funny because on the trip up to Toronto my wife and I were driving and we were listening to Brendan Manning, “The Ragged Muffin Gospel” and in there he used a quote from GK Chesterton where he talks about the furious love of God and I remember thinking like boy that would be a really cool title you know “Furious Love.” I never heard that phrase before, and it just so happened that that night is when He gave me the rest of the down loading. I put two and two together and I was ready to go make a movie.
Sid: Well, I have to tell you, although the movie is brand new, I had a chance to review that movie and you know what? In my opinion after seeing that movie is what we call Christianity here in the west is so shallow. And the other thought and I’ve been on a quest my whole life to walk in God’s love. I mean that’s really my purpose and this “Furious Love” will show people the reality, that’s what God told you. It would show that there’s really a war between darkness and light and most Christians don’t even know that this war is going on above them. But then, when you see how people operate in love and how the most impossible situations God has greater power than all the darkness in the world put together. And I mean, I’m sure that’s what you wanted to accomplish.
Darren: Yeah, and that was the big thing is, I kept telling people when they asked me “What my next people is about?” I’m saying well, it’s about love and it’s about showing, you know the reality of God’s love and everybody asks me the same question, “How do you do that, how do you film love, how do you film,” It is one thing to film miracles, okay I get that, but I had people that loved Finger and they just did not understand the concept. They didn’t understand how you are going to do this? How are you going to show what love looks like?
Sid: I would urge everyone that is listening to get a hold of this.
Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with Mike Shreve. And Mike, I explained a little bit about my background and you explained a little bit about yours because this book, “Truthseekers”, is so vital. What did God tell you would happen with this book?
Mike: Well at the end of writing the book, I was awakened one morning and I heard the audible voice of God say, “Bumper crop.” And to be honest with you, I had no idea what a bumper crop was. So I went to the dictionary and looked it up and it means an extraordinarily high yield of harvest. What does that mean? That means there’s millions of people, I believe, that are going to be affected by this book, that are going to be harvested unto the Lord Jesus Christ as a result of the wonderful stories and testimonies.
Sid: Are there many people involved in the New Age today?
Mike: Oh, it permeates.
Sid: You were telling me some statistics.
Mike: Well between 1990 and the year 2000, Christianity, according to a reputable poll, only grew 5%. But during that same period of time, the New Age grew 240%. Now that difference continues unabated into the future. The New Age ideas, the New Age philosophy is going to just totally take over the world.
Sid: Well no it’s not. We’re going to win.
Mike: Yes, sir, definitely.
Sid: But that’s what its goal is. And as a matter fact, most people are looking at Islam as the End Time key player in the last days. I think and Mike thinks it’s the New Age.
Mike: Yes, the New Age.
Sid: Tell me what their strategy is.
Mike: Well if it’s all right, let me mention this. Three means by which the stage will be set for the Antichrist and that’s governmental, which is the New World Order political agenda and then economic, international banking elite that are moving us towards a one-world currency. And then you have the spirituality side of this three-part stage that is being set for the Antichrist, and that’s the New Age. And the reason the New Age is the perfect religious philosophy to under-gird the Antichrist is because it embraces everybody. It says all paths are legitimate paths to God. And so it will seem as though the whole world is being harmonized under this particular philosophy.
Sid: Well you know, everyone is looking at Islam. I have a theory. When everyone is looking at one particular thing, the devil is not wasting his time. He wants you to look. It’s almost like a diversion.
Mike: It’s a smoke screen.
Sid: It’s, I’ll tell you what, there are people that are watching us right now and you have been touching on the new age and you are in the new age. For instance, witchcraft, communicating with the dead, going to fortune tellers. What are some of the other areas?
Mike: Tarot cards, yoga, meditation.
Sid: Reincarnation. You know, the Bible says you live once and then comes the Judgment. As a matter of fact, you don’t have to keep coming back when you believe in Jesus because you become the righteousness of God in the site of Jesus. You can’t get any more righteous. I mean, and who would want to come back as an animal or a human, or anything? I mean, I want to walk with intimacy with God. I want the truth. And as Pontius Pilot said, “What is truth?” Speak to a new-ager about truth right now.
Mike: Jesus said, “I am the truth.” When I was a new-ager, I didn’t think it was important to come to Jesus. I was told that forgiveness of sins, that’s not necessary. We evolve through many incarnations to perfection. But when I was confronted with Christianity and biblical truth the whole scenario changed. Then God becomes personal. And if I come to him at the cross I’m forgiven of my sins. Jesus paid the price so that sins could be cleansed. I didn’t know if it would work or not. I really had a lot of misgivings. But I invited Jesus to come into my heart. I said, “If you’re there, if you’re my Messiah I accept you as my savior. Forgive me of my sins. Fill me with the Holy Spirit.” And it happened. And for the first time in my life I had an encounter with God. I cannot persuade you intellectually that Jesus is the only way. But if you get a similar experience, an encounter with God, that supernatural reality of God coming back into your heart and life will show you that the cross and the resurrection, and the biblical point of view truly is the only way to a relationship with God being restored.
Sid: And you know, Mike, the thing that I like to say is you’re at such a low level of spirituality if you’re in the new age that why would you ever want to settle with a cheap spiritual counterfeit when you can taste the real thing. I’m reminded what Mike said when he was challenged, just as your challenged right now. Is that I’m going to take a day, where I tell you don’t even take a day. Prayer a prayer that goes something like this, in your own words: Dear Jesus, I’ve committed many sins for which I’m so sorry. I believe your blood washes away my sins. I believe I’m clean and now that I’m clean Jesus, as Mike said, come into me and become Lord of my life. Pray that right now and you will never, ever be the same because the love of God will flood you.
Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with Mike Shreve. And we’ve just found out that if you have a good counterfeit it must be a good counterfeit of something authentic. The authentic of God based on the Bible is the supernatural, miracles, healings, wonderful things of God. But there’s something that looks so close that many people are being deceived and it’s called the New Age. Now Mike Shreve was an instructor of yoga at four universities in the Tampa, Florida area. And they read a big newspaper article about him and a prayer group got a hold of this and they started praying for him by name, every hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And a friend of his had just had an encounter with Jesus that was in the New Age, like he was, and wrote him a letter. And he said, “I’m not paying any attention to that, but just in case, I’m going to take one day and pray and find out who this Jesus is.” And so he takes that day and he is hitchhiking. And guess who picks him up? Someone from that prayer group. How in the world? That’s a needle in a haystack, Mike. How did they do that?
Mike: It was amazing. It was absolutely amazing the way the Holy Spirit orchestrated the whole thing. One of the members of the prayer group who happened to be a former yoga student himself, now that doesn’t like coincidence, it sounds to me like a God instance. He was walking in a Laundromat and the Holy Spirit fell on him and said, “Don’t go in there. I’ve got a job for you to do. Get in your van and start driving.” He had no idea where God was going to lead him. But he started driving and every time he felt an impulse he’d take a turn. He didn’t know that two miles away I was standing on the side of the ride hitchhiking. I had been praying all day long from 3:30 in the morning until that afternoon that Jesus would reveal to me if he was the truth. And now I’m going to teach a yoga class. And he never picked up hitchhikers, but he said he felt this compulsion again to pull over the side of the road and pick me up. And when I opened the door and looked in my heart just started leaping inside of me.
Mike: Because he had taped a picture of Jesus to the ceiling of his van.
Sid: And you’re praying, Jesus if you’re real, show me.
Mike: And that’s the first thing I saw when I got in the van. I looked up and there’s this picture. So I’m sitting on the edge of my seat in expectation. And a few minutes later, he turned around and said, “Friend, can I ask you a question?” I said yes. He said, “Have you ever experienced Jesus coming into your heart?” I said, “No, but when can I?” And he gave me this surprise look like I wasn’t supposed to respond so quick.
Sid: I mean, you pray and pray, and pray and then he says, “Can I?” And you say, what?
Mike: He said, “You can come to our prayer meeting tonight.” I said, “I don’t want to wait that long.” If I can find Jesus I want to find him now. And so he pulled the van over to the side of the road, left it running, we knelt down in the back of the van, we talked a little while, and then I prayed a simple prayer that I thought was too simple to bring me into contact with God, but it worked.
Sid: But it revolutionized his life. In fact, then he goes back to those hundreds of students at the four universities. And what did you tell your yoga students?
Mike: Well I told them that the classes would be dismissed because unknowingly I had mislead them and that I found out Jesus was the only way. And see, what I had taught them, Sid, which is a new age belief, is that there’s a spark of divinity within every human being, and to find God you look within. And that’s a universal opportunity. It doesn’t involve one particular religion, according to new age philosophies. But I had discovered when I invited Jesus into my heart that the Holy Spirit came into me from without. So God was external prior to a salvation experience, or an experience of union with God instead of inside. And that just jarred me to the core of my being, realizing that I had instructed them wrong.
Sid: How did they react when you told them this?
Mike: Most of my main students became Christians also. And we stopped the classes from that very point.
Sid: By the way, just for my interest, there are many Christians involved in yoga today. Is that wrong?
Mike: I counsel people not to involve themselves even in the physical aspect of yoga. There’s five main reasons I give that people should…
Sid: Give me your strongest.
Mike: Well my strongest reason is number one, if you go to a yoga studio where there’s pictures of Krishna and statues of Buddha and there’s a prevalent belief system that all religions are different paths to the same God, it’s similar to walking into an idol temple, because it’s acknowledging false gods and goddesses as being real. Even if you only involve yourself the physical yoga, the Hatha Yoga, you are in an atmosphere that is not going to be blessed of the Holy Spirit. And I tell people just not to involve themselves.
Sid: Okay. So there are least five reasons. That was just one. I’m reminded of myself. Before I knew the Messiah, I didn’t know my left from my right spiritually. I get involved in the New Age. In my case it was a meditation course. It was the Silva Mind Control course. And I was told that I controlled everything. I invite this counselor into my head. I thought it was all imaginary. The Bible calls it a familiar spirit and that I control this familiar spirit. But I found out that when I was exposed to the belief that Jesus was my Messiah this friend, as they called it, became my enemy, started cursing. And in fact, it reminds of the Harfouch’s. Tell me that story real quick.
Mike: Robin Harfouche has a chapter in the book, “Truthseekers”. It’s an amazing, amazing story. She, from an early age, was exposed to the psychic realm and she had experiences with spirit beings, and then eventually met what she thought was a spirit guide that step by step introduced her to key people in Hollywood and orchestrated events supernaturally so that she became a rising star in Hollywood.
Sid: But she was hand-picked.
Mike: Yes she was.
Sid: … to be a spokeswoman. As a matter of fact, the same manager of Shirley MacLaine was her manager and she was hand-picked to be supernaturally elevated in Hollywood to be a pied piper for the new religion called the New Age. And when she wanted to take a break this spirit tried to kill her.
Mike: Actually, the spirit caused an accident to take place where she was crushed under this very heavy door and it was a paralyzing affect. She was paralyzed and destined to be a cripple the rest of her life. But that just set her up for a miracle.
Sid: Of course. As a matter of fact, at one point she saw her spirit guide and it looked just like Marilyn Monroe. Except she saw it change shape and become a demon. We’ll be right back after this word.
Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest, Mike Shreve, is an expert on an area called New Age. Most people aren’t familiar with what the New Age is. As a matter of fact, many people that call themselves Bible believers, have a mixture. They have a little new age and a little true supernatural of God. So I asked Mike to explain what the counterfeit looks like and keep in mind you can’t have a good counterfeit unless it’s a counterfeit of something authentic. The authentic is the supernatural of God as defined in the Bible. The counterfeit looks like it, smells like it, tastes like it, but it really isn’t. Mike, what is exactly included in this term “new age”?
Mike: Well it’s a very comprehensive term, Sid, that can swing all the way to the left and embrace dark spirituality like Wicca and witchcraft, and then it can swing all the way to the right and embrace groups like mind science groups and positive thinking courses, and quite a few other groups in the middle.
Sid: Now you wouldn’t think that swinging all the way to the right, as you put it, that positive thinking would be under that, but it really is.
Mike: Well there are certain new age principles…
Mike: … they adhere to that unite them altogether under this banner. Almost all new age type groups believe in a coming new age of heightened spiritual awareness in the world that differ in how they think that’s going to pass. But it’s all based on astrology because actually the term “new age” stems from astrology, the idea that the sun passes through 12 houses as it goes around the earth, which is of course, opposite to the truth.
Sid: That’s why I said, it’s a good counterfeit.
Mike: But the new age is called the Aquarian age. And according to astrology, we are now in the Piscean age, which is an age of knowledge and reason and that we’re at the juncture where we’re passing into the Aquarian age, which is supposed to be an age of spirituality and God-consciousness in the world, where many of the world’s problems are solved. So it’s a very optimistic view of the future and it’s all tied in with an awakening in spirituality.
Sid: Now you said it covers so many different areas. But yet, there are certain things in common. What else does it all have in common?
Mike: New-agers usually embrace some of these beliefs. For instance, number one, they believe in the need for spirituality instead of religion. Most of them are burned out on religion.
Sid: Does that sound familiar?
Mike: But this is where the error comes in. They believe that all religions and all paths of spirituality are legitimate means to achieve the “in”, which is ultimate reality. Most new-agers are looking for an experience of ultimate reality. And number three, they believe that there are means or devices they can implement in order to achieve an experience of ultimate reality, like meditation or yoga or things like that. Then most new-agers also believe that, as I mentioned, there is a coming age of enlightenment, and the way we’re going to move into that new age is by individuals awakening their own divine nature. Now there’s a very key element. Most new-agers believe that we are God, that we are expressions of the Divine, and the key to bringing this planet to peace is realizing our own Godhood, if you would. And that’s the antithesis of the truth, we’ll never be God and we can awaken a God nature within. But that’s one of the basic teachings.
Sid: Well you know, the reason that Mike is so well knowledgeable, because, number one, he studied for many years, but before he knew the Messiah, he actually taught yoga at four universities in the Tampa, Florida area. Why did you even get into yoga? What was your goal?
Mike: When I was a freshman in college, I had a near-death experience because of drugs. I went into an overdose experience where I felt, I believe it was actually happening, my soul leaving my body, the life gathering from my hands and feet to the center of my chest, going out into this void that was quite frightening. And I realized then that I was throwing my life away and I needed to find something of eternal value. So I dropped out of college to study under an Indian guru and I became very devoted to a group called Kundalini Yoga, under a man named Yogi Bhajan. And I was spending from 3:30 in the morning to 5:30 at night in some kind of discipline doing Hatha Yoga, Raji Yoga, meditating, chanting, mantras, reading various scriptures.
Sid: You were really dedicated.
Mike: I was into it passionately for a long period of time.
Sid: If Bible believers were just as dedicated. And Mike, you were successful. There was a full-page article about you in a Tampa newspaper.
Mike: And I thought that would increase my classes. I was teaching at four universities.
Sid: About how many students?
Mike: I had about two to 300 students in four universities in the Tampa area. And this big article came out in the Tribune and I thought for certain my classes would go from 200 to maybe 900 or a thousand. Instead..
Sid: But wait a second? Were you materialistic? Did you want to make money? What was your goal?
Mike: No. In fact, I never charged for my classes. I just put a little basket in the back of the class and if they wanted to drop something in they did. I lived a very separated life. I was somewhat of a recluse and I didn’t know anything materially. So that was my focus. But I wanted to impact the world. I thought that what was teaching would help people bring their lives to a place of peace and a place where they could achieve God-consciousness and become more whole individuals.
Sid: But unbeknownst to Mike, what he thought the purpose of this full-page article was not the purpose at all.
Sid: A group of born-again Christians read the article and decided they wanted to make a focus of their prayer, Mike Shreve. And did they pray a lot for you?
Mike: Every hour.
Sid: Every hour?
Mike: They assigned somebody to do fasting and praying over me every hour of everyday.
Sid: You didn’t stand a chance.
Mike: No. For a month, I was soaked with intercession.
Sid: Okay. So you decide you’re going to check the Bible out, check Jesus out and you say, I’m going to take one day.
Mike: Just one day
Sid: Tell me about that day.
Mike: Well what happened is during that month-long period I got a letter from an old friend and he told me how he had been born-again, which was a foreign term to me. I didn’t understand, but he described Jesus coming into his heart and how he finally had an encounter with God. I wrote him back and said, “That doesn’t make sense to me.” But the letter just weighed on my mind until one day, as you said, I decided, you know, I’ve got to be open-minded. So I dedicated that whole day to the Lord Jesus and I said I’m not going to do yoga. I’m not going to chant. I’m not going to do any meditation like I’m normally involved in. I’m just going to pray and read the Bible today. And if you really are the Messiah and if you really did come to die on a cross for the sense of humanity, then I believe you’ll show me today.
Sid: Alright. Hold that thought. I know you’re going anywhere. We’ll be back right after this word.
Sid: Now, my guest Dennis Walker has caught something from God that every believer on earth can walk in. That every believer on earth must walk in, as a matter of fact, “Dennis has the Lord shown you that we’re coming close to that point where there will be so many miracles and such a revival I have to believe that we are getting close to that point?”
Dennis: I believe that as well, I see things happening that just confirm that as things get darker, people of God have to shine like bright lights.
Sid: You know, I was reminded on yesterdays broadcast of a, I read the life story of Pat Robertson, and it was called “Shout it From the Rooftops.” And one day God spoke to Pat and said that through a scripture, “Sell everything that you have.” So his wife was out of town, so he sells all the furniture in his apartment, but he doesn’t tell his wife and so she comes home to an empty apartment. “Where is my furniture? Where’s my bed?” You know can you image the argument that he had. “Well, what happened when your wife came home because God told you to put a tent in your house, what did she think?”
Dennis: Well, my wife ask the question “Den, doesn’t that go up outside?” And I told her…
Sid: That’s an understatement. Ha-ha
Dennis: I said, “No, this is going to be in the house and me in it. Ha ha.
Sid: Ah ha and “What did she say?” Ha-ha
Dennis: Well, my wife is very gracious, she is probably the most gracious person on earth and she said, “Honey, pup, whatever it takes.” Ha-ha.
Sid: Okay, so was this in the living room or?
Dennis: Yes, it was in our living room.
Sid: I see and so what did you do with this tent in the living room?
Dennis: Well, the Lord had spoken to me that I would meet with Him in the tent and that He would restore to me the Feast of Tabernacles and so I got in the tent.
Sid: Wait a second, what did that mean to you at that time, He’d restore the Feast of Tabernacle?
Dennis: What I knew about the Feasts was that all of the Feasts of Israel were pictures of things coming in the future. The Feast of Passover was given to Israel to be a picture of something that would happen in the future, so that when it happened they would recognize it. And this was what happened when Jesus became our Passover Lamb. His blood was shed to bring us into right standing and access back into the very presence of God. And then there’s other feasts that we are all pictures of things to come. The Feast of Pentecost, to picture something coming. The Feast of Tabernacles is also a picture of an event coming where we learn to dwell and abide with God. So that’s what that meant to me, I was waiting for this, God is going to teach us how to live with Him.
Sid: Okay, so just out of curiosity from the day God told you to have the tent how long did it take for you to have an appointment with God?
Dennis: Oh, it happened the very same night I set up the tent, I climbed in. I got quiet; I put on headphones with instrumental music just to filter out any distraction and suddenly as I set my mind on things above, just as it says in Colossians Chapter 3 verses 1 & 2. And the Bible actually teaches you seek Heaven and it tells you how; set your mind on things above. So I simply did that, I got into the tent set my mind on things above and suddenly I’m caught into an awareness of things happening in Heaven.
Sid: Well, tell me the first thing that God told you when He spoke with you in that tent.
Dennis: The first thing He did was that He sat down with me and began to unpack the whole story of Nicodemus coming to Jesus in the middle of the night.
Sid: Now, when you say that He sat down with you, did you…was this something you could see with your eyes, was this something you sensed, or was this something that you were hearing, what do you mean?
Dennis: I was seeing this with my eyes, now I’m in my tent, I have all the awareness that my body is still in this tent, but in my spirit I was in heavenly places sitting with Jesus as He began to talk to me. And then He talked to me about this story of Nicodemus.
Sid: Why Nicodemus?
Dennis: Well, there is so much more of that story than what we’ve known, it’s all about seeing and hearing in the Heaven. Jesus told Nicodemus that you can’t see into Heaven unless you are born again, that you are born of the Spirit. And then He said you can’t enter Heaven unless you are born of water and the Spirit. And so it is all about seeing and entering into Heaven. And then He began to unfold that even more, telling us that the wind blows no one knows where it comes from and no one knows where it goes. So is everyone that is born of the Spirit and then I began to understand that God’s plan for us was to know Heaven. That Jesus died on the cross and His blood was shed to give us access to the very presence of God. That some way or another He wanted us to live out of the very resources of Heaven and not just the resources of earth. And so He began to show me; eyes would open your ability to know, taste touch and smell would open your spiritual senses would be activated to have experiences into Heaven.
Sid: Well, you not only had experiences into Heaven, you not only had Jesus teach you from the scriptures and really restore the true meaning of the Feast of Tabernacles, but your wife says when these things would occur and you would come out of the tent you would really be a changed person. What did she observe?
Dennis: You know, she actually said that do me. She said, “You know I love it when you spend time in the tent.” I was curious well why, why do you like it because I’m in there hours and hours and she said, “When you come out of that tent, you come out tender.” And that was different; I was not necessarily a tender person that wasn’t my natural state. But God was changing my character as I spent time with Him in that place.
Sid: And now, just out of curiosity, “Did your wife ever go into that tent? I mean I would have gone into it.
Dennis: Yeah, absolutely, in fact I still had two of my kids living at home when I was starting this whole thing and I had after awhile they started seeing a change in their Dad, change in the husband and they all started spending time in the tent and they all got activated into these kind of things. I mean I have prophetic children; I have a prophetic wife, because God has really poured His Spirit into them and they see beyond just the natural things.
Sid: And this is what you are teaching…
Dennis: That’s right…, simple simple simple, simple things in fact I have people read the book, I have had people that have heard me speak on these things and they have said, you know this is so simple; I have missed it because of the simplicity.
Sid: Well, you know doesn’t Jesus say that unless you become like a little child. Now, how could a child understand something complex?
Dennis: Exactly, oh man, I tell you. And He wants everyone to be able to this and not just really smart people.
Sid: Take one person that has either read your book, heard the CD or been in a seminar with you and tell me what happened to them.
Dennis: Okay, I’ve got a bunch of stories; I am going to try to pick one that is a shorter story. How about this one, a lady who began to hear our teachings and came to be part of our training center here in Los Vegas and she had been a member of the church for many years and never really had done anything. She sang in the choir, but never seen anybody born again, never seen miracles and she began to take the things that we tell people. She began to share Jesus with people, coworkers and things around her and all of a sudden that got her a lot of opposition amongst some of the workers that she was with and one day she is crying out to the Lord. Lord they are so mean to me how long will I have to put up with this? And the Lord told her that this one lady that was like the ring leader he was going to take out of the way. And so she went to work and the lady was gone and she didn’t know where she was. Turns out the lady had come down with a very very aggressive cancer and so this lady began to cry out. God give me this woman’s life, I want to see her born again, I want to see her healed. God spoke to her by initiative of Heaven the very things that we had taught. And said go to the hospital and I’ll use you to heal her. And this woman got healed, got saved in the hospital. Went back to the casino and told all of the employees in the casino this woman healed me and now she can’t go in and out of work without people asking for prayer, people asking for help.
Sid: Now, you have an apostolic resource center right there in Las Vegas. What is your…your vision of course is to equip people to go to the four corners of the earth but what’s your vision for Las Vegas, I’m curious.
Dennis: Oh yes, there is a great plan of God for our city. You know I have traveled literally in the jungles on the rivers Africa, South America, Asia and everywhere I have ever gone everybody know about Las Vegas. Everybody knows what Las Vegas is, it has…
Sid: Sure it’s synonym is the sin city.
Dennis: That’s right, all over the world that’s what they call it. I believe God has a plan in these last days to take this city and bring it to such a place where the by word around the world is “Have you heard what is happening in Las Vegas?”
Sid: Well, I want the by word to be in the house of those that are listening “Have you heard what’s happening to that family in that house…”