Sid: Well, my guest has to be red hot for the Messiah her name is Gina Lynnes and she is an editor and a writer for the Kenneth Copeland Ministries and I got a hold of her brand new book, she wrote it in conjunction with Melanie Hemry and it’s called anointing for healing. Now Gina I want to get a little bit about your background because and I have to tell you it’s for starters it’s a beautiful book; it’s one of these books that you want to put it on your coffee table but more important than that, it’s going to do what you want it to do. What do you want it to do?
Gina: More than anything we want this book to bring into people’s lives the revelation that God is alive, that He’s well, that He’s healing people today and that it’s not hard to receive healing from him. That He made it simple and that’s what He wants to do is pour out healing on all of His children.
Sid: And going back a little of your background you were raised Baptist; you were taught that miracles had ceased. And you had a little problem with reading the Bible because the Bible talked about miracles and it didn’t appear to say it had ceased and you have a journalistic background so you finally reached a point where you quit church. You started raising your family and you’re pregnant with a baby girl; take me from there.
Gina: Well, I was pregnant with my little girl and just so thrilled about having a daughter, had always dreamed about having a daughter and had problems in the pregnancy and ended up delivering her premature. And back then that was thirty years ago now, and a premature baby didn’t have as much chance of survival as they do today, and when I took her home she wasn’t able to properly digest food, she didn’t grow. The doctors couldn’t help her and I got to the point where they sent her home and they said, “There’s nothing more that we can do for her.” And it has been a nine month struggle and she was literally dying before my eyes, dehydrating and dying of malnutrition. And so I found myself in a desperate condition and even though I hadn’t been living for God and I knew that I didn’t deserve Him to do anything for me I ended up getting on my knees and laying my little girl in the middle of the carpet one evening and asking Him to work a miracle.
Sid: That’s kind of hard to comprehend someone coming from your background where God doesn’t do miracles, I guess when you’re desperate you do desperate things.
Gina: Well, that’s the truth and you know the Spirit of God is so faithful and even when in your head you may not have the right teaching if you are a child of God, and I was I was born again, He continued to work in your heart and I believe He got through to me. And even though I didn’t even know it He was working to convince me to trust God and ask Him for what I thought was impossible. And I didn’t have any other choice anyway so I prayed for her and…
Sid: Did anything happen? Did you feel anything, did you see anything?
Gina: I didn’t and you know that’s one of the things to me that actually thrilled me is that God, when I prayed I didn’t feel anything special, I didn’t have any Goosebumps, but I just believed that God heard me. And I put her to bed that night and she had always cried most of the night, she cried all the time actually because she was always hungry and in pain. And I went to bed that night and woke up in the middle of the night horrified because I realized she hadn’t cried and my first natural thought was “She’s dead, she’s died in the night.” And I knew that could happened naturally speaking and I started to get up and when I got up it’s probably one of the first times in my life inwardly, but to me it was very audible the voice of the Lord who said to me, “You’ve put her in my hands, trust me and go back to sleep.” And that wasn’t what I usually would have done loving my daughter as I did, but I did go back to sleep.
Sid: I don’t know, I think I would have had a problem doing that, how did you do that?
Gina: You know again, I have to give all the glory to the Lord because when He tells you something there’s always grace there to obey. And there was something of the Lord, an assurance that came in my heart that it was the right thing to do to trust Him. And again I knew that I couldn’t help her in my natural strength anyway and so I went back to sleep and when I woke up, I woke up late the next morning, which I never overslept because she always was crying; I woke up and it was still quiet in the house. And by that time I didn’t have my assurance of peace anymore and I went running to her room and I really my heart was pounding because I thought for sure I would find her dead in the crib. And I just held my breath and walked into her room and looked in and in her crib she was lying there happy kicking her feet, smiling and it was the first time I had ever seen her like that. And she from then on began to be able to keep food down; she grew and she was healed.
Sid: Now, if she hadn’t had that miracle at that point when she was born premature, do you think she would have been normal today or even alive?
Gina: She wouldn’t have survived, I’ve read about it since and the state of dehydration that she was in she weighed, although she was nine months old she weighed just about as much as a new born infant. And she was so dehydrated that if I touched her skin it just left an indentation, she had no resiliency left and she would have, she would have been dead within the week I’m sure.
Sid: And you had this burning desire to use your writing for God and you saw an ad and applied to the Kenneth Copeland Ministry and that must have really changed your whole paradyne for miracles when you started working for the Copeland Ministry.
Gina: Well, it really did because even though I had seen a miracle myself with my daughter I didn’t – no one still had taught me what the Bible has to say about miracles. So I didn’t know that was something that God did in a very unusual way for me or I really didn’t understand why that happened. But when I went to work for the Copeland’s I was already in love with the Lord, but I hadn’t been exposed to teaching about healing. And one of the first things that happened to me when I got there my job was to write the testimonies into stories that came into the ministry. People who had received the working of God in their life, and I found myself reading this pile of letters that was one story right after another of people being healed of cancer, of people being raised up from deathbeds. And then finally, the most shocking one that I got on the first day was a letter that came from a man named Joel June from Haiti who had been raised from the dead after being dead for two days. And I was stunned and thrilled to find out that God was – didn’t just work a miracle for me He was working them all the time for people all over the world.
Sid: Well, the thing that I love about your book is when someone finishes this book – as a matter of fact on the cover you have inserted a little vile of anointing oil and I must say that has the most beautiful fragrance. And you have a teaching on anointing oil and I’ve personally never heard this teaching, but it does nothing but build someone’s faith for their healing. And I love the fact that you have these verified miracles from, I would have to believe it’s the best miracles you’ve ever seen in the Copeland ministry that you could verify and then you show step by step how someone can have the miracle manifested in their life. You had a severe internal infection and very briefly in a couple of minutes tell me the steps you took to be healed.
Gina: Well, once I began to study the Bible one of the most thrilling things for me was how easy and simple it is to connect with God’s healing power and when I had my first challenge which was a severe painful infection in my body I found out from the work there was three steps to take. And the first one was to believe and to go the Bible and find promises that promise your healing and take a stand of faith on it. And so that’s what I did I found Psalm 103 that says “He forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases.” And I just believed it and the send thing in addition to believing is to speak. And confession is a powerful part of receiving healing so I just declared that I believed that I was healed you know, Paul said, “I believe therefore I’ve spoken.” It says I’m healed and again I didn’t feel any different, I didn’t have any rush that a lot of people do, but I didn’t at that point. The third thing is to act and that day I was in terrible pain and I told the Lord, “I said, I don’t know how to act on this stand that I’m taking.” And He just led me to go out and go jogging and that’s what I did every night at that time. And honestly I didn’t think I would make it around the track, but do you know what the first lap was really painful but all the way around I just kept saying to myself, “I believe I’m healed because the Bible says so.” And after the first quarter mile I did feel something; the power of God hit me from the top of my head to the soles of my feet, I was instantly delivered from pain and every symptom of that infection and it’s completely gone in an instant.
Sid Roth: And you know one of things I like in your book is that you address everyone has a friend that has done exactly what you said and they haven’t been healed and so they just come to a screeching halt in reference to believing God for healing, what would you briefly say to that person?
Gina: Well, one of the things that the Lord has just taught me in a nutshell is that it’s always a mistake to allow one person’s failure to receive the fulfillment of God’s promise to cast doubt on the promise itself. God’s Word is always true and many times as individuals who are endeavoring to a line ourselves up with God’s Word there are things that we haven’t learned yet or things we don’t know, but if we’ll stay with God He’ll teach it to us. And I’ve come to this conclusion, if I have to choose between trusting a person or trusting God’s Word to be true I’m going to choose God’s Word every time. And the person may have done everything they know to do but God never fails and I’ll just keep trusting His word, He will never fail me.
SID: Hello. I am so excited about this key to understanding dreams that Mark Virkler has. Someone else that did what you’ve just taught on the air. Give me an example.
MARK: Alright. Sheryl MacKay. She’s a screenwriter, and she wrote the script for “The Ultimate Gift,” a Hollywood movie that’s played in theaters.
SID: I know. I’ve seen it.
MARK: You’ve seen it, alright. And when she got introduced to dreams she had 70 dreams, a whole series of 70 dreams where God gave her wisdom, counsel, direction. Even the characters for some of the books she has written has come out of this. And one of the dreams she received was for a friend of hers showing, God was showing that she was thinking of committing suicide. And so she went to her friend, ministered to her, and when her friend realized God cared enough for her to give a dream and give revelation to her friend and give it to her, she decided not to commit suicide, and life was actually worth living. So it radically changes people’s lives.
SID: Mark, I love it when people get inventions in dreams. For instance, we’re in a time in our economy where it’s really going south. But that doesn’t mean it has to happen for God’s people. I mean, we can have dreams from God that will show us how to make more money in a bad economy than you could make in a good economy. There are dreams that have changed nations because of inventions, like the sewing machine.
MARK: The gentleman who invented and patented the first sewing machine, he was trying to figure out how to thread the thread into the needle. Couldn’t figure it out. He went to sleep, had a dream that night, and there were some Indians shooting an arrow through some cloth. He snagged some thread and pulled the thread back through the cloth, and he realized, he woke up, went straight to his laboratory and perfected the sewing machine, which was then used to sew the uniforms for one million men who were in the military, in the war at that point in time. So yes: affecting history through receiving revelation from God, in a dream which he then acted on it.
SID: Tell me about this sculptor, this famous sculptor, Eric Rose.
MARK: Eric Rose, he had been an artist in college, but he got turned off because of perfectionism. So he was doing a left brain lineal job, didn’t enjoy it. And when he heard from God through dreams, God called him back into doing art work, but He said, let’s add something to it. Let’s do sculpturing, which he had never done. And so, God led him into creating sculptures that were six feet tall made of bronze; which he sold for thousands of dollars. So again, Divine creativity and being called back into your ministry, rather doing something you’re not supposed to be doing.
SID: You know, I believe that we are so wonderfully made by God that we have gifting within us and many people never achieve a satisfaction, a fulfillment in life because they never accomplish what God has programmed inside of them. And what a wonderful way for God to communicate to us: when we’re asleep. What about people that are physically sick?
MARK: I had a lady, a secretary, and she had a dream. She walked into her house in the dream, she smelled smoke, she looked for the fire and finally found the fire down in the kitchen. And she awoke. And so the interpretation of the dream showed up about two months later when she went to the doctor. He said, “You have a fire in your intestines, inflammation in your intestines. It’s caused by stress.” He gave her something. He said, “You have to de-stress and here’s some medication.” It went away. Well the dream came back a year later. Same dream: fire in her house, in the kitchen. The kitchen, of course, the symbolism is this is where you eat. This is your digestive system. So the part of the house, the house where I live, kitchen is where I’m going to eat. That’s my digestive system, in the lower cupboards. That’s lower intestines. It was pinpointing where the infirmity was. And when it came back a year later she knew, look, de-stress or else I’m going back to the doctor for more medication. So dreams can keep you healthy and tell you about the health concerns that your body is facing.
SID: There’s another type of health, a good mental wellbeing, good spiritual wellbeing. And you had a dream about people as opposed to accomplishing something.
MARK: Yeah, exactly. We were, for two weeks of solid videotaping, 10 hours a day, six days a week, and we taped a hundred sessions. I was totally consumed with the taping and I had three dreams. In the first dream somebody comes and asks me for prayer and instead of praying for him I brush him off. I wake up and say, “Man, terrible.” And the Lord said to me, when I journaled about it, I said, “Lord, what do you want to say?” He said, “Mark, you know, you’re involved in this big technical thing, but you’re not taking care of the people who are actually doing the taping. You’re ignoring their needs.” He said, “Teach them how to hear God’s voice. Teach them how to interpret dreams.” So, every morning in morning devotions, we journaled together, every day at lunchtime we’d share our dreams from the previous night, and we interpreted dreams together as a group. So God was saying, Mark, keep putting people first before projects. Stay balanced. Don’t get imbalanced. So my dreams, your dreams keep us balanced as we walk through life.
SID: I believe that you could pray for us right now and release this gift that God has within us to be able to hear so clearly from God that…when we dream. Could you pray that over everyone right now?
MARK: Yes, I would love to. I’d love to. I would just like you to speak this with me, and just say to your heart, I believe dreams are important.
SID: I believe that dreams are important.
MARK: I believe they are a way that God speaks to me.
SID: I believe they are a way that God speaks to me.
MARK: I honor my dreams.
SID: I honor my dreams.
MARK: Alright. And let me just pray for you. Father, I release an impartation of faith into every listener’s heart. Faith for dreams and dream interpretation just come alive within their hearts. Faith just spring up in the name of Jesus. Faith, come alive in Jesus’ name. So Lord, minister Divine counsel to your people through dreams in Jesus’ name. Amen.
SID ROTH: And God has a dream. Some of you have been hurt. Some of you have been turned off by religion, but never get turned off on the one that loves you no matter what you ever do. Now that will separate you from His love, but He is pure love. God is pure love. You have not experienced love until you experience the love of God. And I want you to state with your mouth in your own words that you are a sinner, and ask God to forgive you of all the sins that you’ve committed, and give you the power to overcome them in the future. And then say, “Jesus, become real to me.” Jesus, you don’t have to follow my words. Jesus, become real to me. Jesus, live inside of me. There’s got to be something more to life than work, sleep, eat, and that’s the way it goes. And there is more. There is Heaven on Earth. And then when you leave your earth suit, there’s Heaven for eternity being in the love of God. There’s no better place for you now and then. Pray this prayer right now in your own words. Get real. Get real.
SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Gary Kah. And we’re finding out information the secular press is not going to tell you. There’s an organization I’ve never even heard of. It’s called the World Constitution and Parliament Association, and Gary was extended an invitation to join, and he collected a lot of documents from this organization. Tell me briefly about who is part of it and what are they trying to do.
GARY: Well this organization has its goal to lay the foundation for an ultimate world government system and they have held mock sessions of a world parliament. They’re calling it the Provisional World Parliament. They just recently held the twelfth such meeting. Hundreds of renowned people from around the world belong to this organization.
SID: What do they think of Jews and Christians, this organization?
GARY: Well at least some of the people in this organization, you have to understand it is tightly connected with the broader one-world New Age movement, and many of the people at the forefront of the movement are very, almost hostile toward Bible-believing Christians and conservative Jews. They are not very fond of us because they see us as standing in the way of them completing their agenda.
SID: You started to say some of the people that are members.
GARY: Yes. You had people representing all the world’s religions. At one point, one of the honorary sponsors was Cynthia Wedel. She was the head of the World Counsel of Churches. There was also the head the World Muslim Congress, Dr. Inamullah Khan, who belonged to it. But also at one point, the Chairman of the Nobel Prize Committee and former leaders from the U.N., former ambassadors, a lot of people with foreign policy experience who were plugged in to this organization.
SID: I’ve been examining your literature, and there are just outstanding scientists, economists, top political type people connected with this, and they’ve had meetings with some of the top people in the world attending. Why hasn’t the secular media covered it? I haven’t heard anything about this. You know, that’s a question, Sid that I ask myself all the time. As far as I can tell, I believe there are people, I know there are some people in the mass media who actually support this agenda. Others that at the very least are sympathetic toward it. And then I believe there’s a third group of people that just want to bend over backwards to be politically correct, and they’re afraid to touch the subject. But I collected several hundred pages of documents being affiliated with this organization for a few years, and it speaks for itself. Unless people were to accuse me of creating these letterheads and all the signatures of the people on these documents, you have to accept the fact that this is really taking place and that we need to know about.
SID: Now another area that you’re very concerned about is something that a lot of people love. It’s interfaith, like the U.N. has something for interfaith. Explain that.
GARY: Yes. The United Nations has been pushing an interfaith agenda for some time. They’ve held various activities, and meetings along those lines. And last October, a new program was kick-started by King Abdullah and Prince Ghazi of Jordan called the World Interfaith Harmony Week. And that week was designated to be the first week of February each year. So from now on we will have a week of interfaithism celebrated during that week. Now Prince Ghazi and King Abdullah’s efforts were based on previous U.N. interfaith efforts and the Common Word Program, which is a Muslim call to bridge-building with the Christian community. Now in response to that, a number of Christian leaders got together and drafted their own document called, “Loving God and Neighbors Together”, and in that document…
SID: By the way, that sounds good to me. That does not sound bad, Gary.
GARY: It does, exactly. But in the document, they are calling for closer ties to Islam and equate the God of the Old and New Testaments with the Koran. And so when you look beneath the surface, it really is interfaithism. It’s paving the way to interfaithism to accept the idea that other religions are pathways to God. And of course, if you believe the Bible and believe what Jesus said about himself, you cannot believe that. It is impossible.
SID: Tell me about why when someone like the National Association of Evangelicals would join an organization that’s heretical, what you just said, based on the Bible. Why?
GARY: Well, and they did, the National Association of Evangelicals was one of 300 organizations and/or individuals that signed that document. And I believe there is a trend in America today within Christianity. It may have started out with good intentions to reach out to people of other faiths, but it’s gone beyond that now. It is paving the way toward interfaithism and toward embracing other people’s beliefs. In fact, one individual I’m aware of, a prominent evangelical Christian, recently celebrated Ramadan with a Muslim friend. And you know, to celebrate rituals of other people’s religions really crosses the line. Ramadan, for example, being the month during which it is believed by Muslims that Mohammed received the words to the Koran. So unless we believe the Koran and support that, how would you be able to promote something like that?
SID: And something you told me that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately is the, what is the attraction between Islam and, say, Catholicism? I mean, they seem to be opposites. But there is a common denominator.
GARY: There is a common denominator. Muslims hold Mary in high regard. And one of the reasons for that is, and this is a little known fact, but Mohammed believed that when he would go to paradise that Mary would be his wife.
SID: Hmmm. I never heard that.
GARY: Yes. In addition to that, you know the apparitions that supposedly appeared at Fatima, apparitions of Mary appearing at Fatima, Portugal; Fatima happened to be the name of Mohammed’s daughter. So many Muslims believe there was significance of the fact that Mary chose to appear in Fatima, a place named after Mohammed’s daughter. And so there are other reasons as well. But this has brought some Roman Catholic leaders and Muslim leaders together at least on the fringes to where they are talking about some of the developments in the Middle East.
SID: You know, there is something wonderful going on with many Muslims. They’re having dreams and visions of Jesus in large numbers, and I rejoice over that. But there’s a flip side to it. Many are now having dreams and visions of Mary.
GARY: You know, I told my wife years ago, Sid, that if the day ever came when Muslims claimed to see apparitions of Mary that things were far along, and that this world system was getting ready to gel and come together. And that has been going on now for a few years. Hundreds of Muslims in Egypt, Indonesia, parts of Africa. We’re getting reports, are claiming to have had or are seeing visions of Mary, and they are telling them to be in favor of global unity, world peace, the coming together of the world’s religions.
SID: Okay. Why is it necessary for the coming together of religions? I see why it’s necessary for coming together on money, on politics. But why religion?
GARY: Well if there is going to be a one-world political and economic system, somehow the world’s religions have to be brought together to make that possible. If they are in major disagreement with each other and don’t see eye to eye, it would be very difficult to bring this one-world system together and have it work. And so that’s why globalists have been pushing this agenda for a long time.
SID ROTH: And you can really see, if you know your Bible, why the world is pushing to internationalize Jerusalem. We’ll be right back. Don’t go away.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here and welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I just love it! I love sitting down on this set and recognizing I’m not sitting in natural air. I’m sitting in this rarified air of Heaven. And I have my friend Hank Kunneman here. And Hank is a proven prophet, and what I love about him is he’ll even put on his website his prophecies before they happen, after they happen. I mean, Hank, I read in the Old Covenant that Samuel’s words would not fall to the ground. They would all come to pass. And under the better covenant, we should have prophets that have as good an accuracy as Samuel, as far as I’m concerned. And some…just for those that aren’t familiar with Hank, I want you to know some of the things that he’s prophesied. For instance, are you grumbling about the gasoline prices? Tell me what God told you about oil and gas.
HANK: First of all, I want to say thank you again for having me, Sid. One of the things that’s interesting is back in the early, really 2000-01, that kind of season, the Lord began to talk about the gas prices, and He said, “Watch the gas prices. They’re going to begin to even reach as high as $5.00 a gallon,” and He said, “…when they do,” he said, “then they’ll begin to go back down again.” And at that time, this is so amazing about prophecy, is sometimes when the Word of Lord comes, it may not even be happening at the time, like what you’re saying. And so at that time, gas prices were pretty normal and it didn’t look like the word applied.
SID: Now by the way, just out of curiosity, you’re human like everyone else…just like you. When you have this word that seems outrageous…
SID: ….and you say it, and it’s out there for everyone. You even put it on your website, and nothing happens. What goes on with the prophet?
HANK: Well there’s a human side and then you also have your wife (laughs).
SID: She’s your balance.
HANK: Yes, she’s a balance. There is a human side that you have to realize that you put it out there, especially if you give what I call risky prophecies. But something I always like to do is before any prophecy goes live, I submit it to a group of people to say, hey, you know, judge this word. Even Jesus did that with his first miracle. He submitted it to the governor of the feast, so I think there’s some wisdom in that. But the human side, yeah, sometimes you think, God, what did I just say?
SID: Now alright. In addition to gas prices, what about the housing industry? I wish I had been in your church when you brought that word forth. What did you bring forth and when was it?
HANK: It was the craziest thing. It was right around 2004, 2005. The Spirit of the Lord began to give me visions about the houses, and I would see them on like sand, and I would see them getting shaken. And the Lord said, “Start telling the people that there is coming a shaking of the housing market and get off those financial arms.” Remember those arms where they…
SID: I remember that time. It was horrible.
HANK: And the Lord said, “Get off of those arms because there’s coming a financial shaking in the housing market.” And many people who heeded to that voice were able to save their homes. At that time, I mean the housing market was booming in the United States.
SID: Now I’m going to ask you something that everyone is, you’re asking this at home. What is going to happen to the housing market in the United States? What’s going to happen to gasoline prices in the United States? What’s going to happen? Is there going to be rampant inflation? Has God shown you any of the above?
HANK: Well, one of the ways that the Lord said, and this is really humorous to me; He said there’s two more hiccups. And I don’t know if you’ve ever had hiccups before, but they’re annoying. They can take your breath away, and sometimes you think you got rid of them. And the Lord said, “…two more financial hiccups,”
SID: (makes hiccup sounds)
HANK: Yeah, where it kind of takes your breath away…a little bit like that. But what I do see is a restoration coming to the economy of the United States. But we are going through a couple more hiccups.
SID: Now by the way, a lot of prophets are saying what you just said. You know that?
HANK: Yes, I know that.
SID: Okay. Just thought I’d let you know that I know and they know. You know.
HANK: They might be prophesying the hiccups. But I have to stay with what I know.
SID: I like your word.
HANK: Yeah, yeah. But here’s a cool thing. If we are Christians then we are part of a different kingdom anyway. The Lord said in his Word that, “Moth and rust and things cannot come and steal it.” So you really need to learn the principles of the Kingdom of God that protects us too.
SID: Okay. You had a word, and that’s the main reason that I invited you to be on this show. You had a word for the next decade for believers in the Messiah. Tell me what that word was.
HANK: The message that God said about 2010, He said, it’s not just 2010. He said, “Hank, it’s about a decade.” And one of the Lord said would mark this new decade, and we’re seeing it right now currently in the earth, it is: this youth that’s beginning to rise up with this taste of dissatisfaction in their mouth, and they’re saying, you know what, we want something different. And they’re absolutely, like in Egypt, they’re affecting the outcome of nations. But one of the things the Lord specifically said, 2010 to 2020 is a decade of change and it’s a decade of breakthrough.
SID: I like that word, “breakthrough”.
HANK: Me, too.
SID: There’s a Hebrew word for “breaker”. Explain what that means.
HANK: The Hebrew word is “boratz” And what it means is to break forth like through the womb. Another way to say it like this, Sid, I really like this definition, is like a water dam. It’s like all this water is contained. Then all of a sudden, something penetrates it and it bursts forth and there’s a surge of incredible power and breaking. And that’s what God is getting ready to do for those that are part of the Messiah. They love the Lord. He’s getting ready to break forth and break through.
SID: You know what’s coming to me right now, is the scriptures say that the gentile believer is to provoke the Jew to jealousy. Can you imagine if you, in the midst of all the turmoil that’s going on in the world, have that type of a breakthrough anointing; people are going to want to say, well who’s your God? Why are you joyous at the time that gas prices are going off the chart? That inflation is ridiculous. I can’t sell my home. That I’ve been laid off from my job? That I don’t have any savings left. And all of a sudden, what is does that Hebrew word mean that’s going to come on that person?
SID ROTH: Breakthrough! Okay. I want to learn keys to the breakthrough. I also want to find out what’s going to happen with countries like China, like Israel, like the United States. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back after this word.
Sid: My guests are Red Hot for the Messiah, but they were almost ship wrecked. I mean Phillip was actually a Dean of the School of Ministry at a mega church; they had eight hundred churches connected with them. Darlena graduated from Regent University, they both on the outside looked like they had it together but they were sabotaged from day one with generational curses and with imperfect parents in the houses that they were raised in and they didn’t know, but they got set free. And when they got set free their hearts desire was to have everyone everywhere have a transformation and finally posses God promises in their life. Now what happened with your family Darlena as you told me that your children got totally healed when you got healed? I guess that happens, the mother and father get healed then the rest of the family gets healed. But you both always wanted a son. Phillip your wife is thirty-nine years old; did you still want a son?
Phillip: Oh yeah, in my heart I did and I was just driving down the road one day and the Lord spoke to me and He spoke to me very clearly and He said, “I’m about to give you everything that you ever wanted. And I thought to myself, well a son would be at the top of that list. And I said, “You know because I have three daughters, I love them they are wonderful but I’d love to have a son.” And I said, “But Lord you have got to talk to my wife because the last two pregnancies were very tough for her and so you know I put that back to Him.”
Sid: Okay, so Darlena he put that back to the Lord but what did you think when you’re husband said “God wants us to have a son?”
Darlena: Well, I just felt an assurance that if we were to conceive another child that it would be a son and because the Lord had healed me of all of the different physical issues that I struggled with that was preventing me from carrying another child I was completely open because I was no longer sick. And we conceived and low and behold it was a son and it was very exciting.
Sid: But when did you find out there was a life critical problem going on?
Darlena: We did not know that there was any critical situations going on with my son until he was delivered and he was our only child that came on our due date, all of girls were two weeks over due. He came on his due date, however he had the chord wrapped around his neck and the doctors said that it appeared that the chord had been around his neck for possibly two weeks because he was born under weight, he was not thriving, he was actually barely alive.
Sid: Phillip, I understand the chord was wrapped around his neck for length of time two times around. Well, when you found you found out about that, what affect did it, I mean here your having the son that you’ve always wanted and it sounds to me like he shouldn’t even be alive.
Phillip: Exactly right, I mean here’s the promise in our hands but he’s almost lifeless, and so it was very defeating and I was fearful and so for three or four days we were fighting these battles with testing and trying to figure out what’s going on. And finally we get a sort of a break and this nurse says to us on a Saturday night, you are going home Monday morning, everything is going to be find and then 5:30 AM Sunday morning they wake us up, why open the door and people that look like astronauts were there and they’re saying they have to care fly our son from one hospital to a larger hospital in Dallas because he’s basically dying. And so at this point, I have zero energy, I have no ability to react and do anything to bring change. And as the helicopter pilots are taking him in a plexi-glass box to the helicopter I’m just feeling gripped by this and as I get to the bottom floor and we are walking out I can hear and see the helicopter the Lord releases a word to me and He says, you are going to win this battle with faith. Roman’s 4:17. Fight now.
Sid: Well you know, its one thing to teach other’s how to do it, but it’s another thing to experience it yourself.
Phillip: That’s right.
Sid: Anyone can be a teacher, in fact you’re a gifted teacher, but where the rubber meets the road is life is subject to challenges. And you bumped into a life threatening challenge for the son that God told you would have. Did you remind God that God told you, you would have a son?
Phillip: You know, I didn’t think about it at the time, I think in those three or four days of being challenged with it I probably said, “Well, Lord I can’t imagine this is what you wanted.” And so when I got Romans 4:17, not having that memorized I went to it and it’s about Abraham calling those things that are not as though they should be. So all I knew to do at that time was to act on that scripture. And I said, “You were born to live and not die.” And I called out my son’s name Wilson, I said, “You were born to live and not die, and you will see your destiny.” And so sure enough, you know a have an hour arrived, we prayed that over and over until we got to the hospital and the head doctor of that intensive care unit came to us and he said, “Sir, I am not sure why your son was flown here but he’s going to be fine.
Sid: Now, before when they were flying him there did they say he was dying? What was their diagnosis at that moment?
Phillip: Well, at that time his platelet count had dropped and the platelets in the blood are extremely necessary and so you know it was something that this smaller hospital couldn’t handle and they said, you know you’ve got to get him to another hospital because he could have internal bleeding. And so we had to make that decision in about thirty second’s time.
Sid: And so how did the doctor account for the fact that his platelet level was correct and that although the chord was wrapped twice around his neck and he as suffocating for a couple of weeks, he was normal. How did that doctor account for that?
Phillip: Well, basically what happened is that they realized that the boy that was put in the helicopter and the boy that arrived at the hospital was at two different stages and so there were some medical procedures but I truly believe that the seed that God promised me had to accompany you know with a supernatural word, and so I really think that this was the moment where I had to release him to God and when I did that, you know I feel like that God put a supernatural seed in my son and accelerated his health.
Sid: And you know something that I personally believe Phillip and Darlena is because you got rid of the all the junk that most humans carry with them their whole life that God is supernaturally providing for you even in the form of supernatural provisions. Give me an example.
Darlena: Well, I know the Lord spoke to us to move to Georgia from Texas to transfer our ministry here. We didn’t have enough money for a home and we had someone step up to the plate and bought us a home. And then shortly after we were here our car that we had driven for years started going downhill and we sold it and three days somebody actually wanted to buy it. And we were without a car and then someone gave us a 2007 Ford Expedition, a $25,000 car, we were given that. And people were…our bills were getting paid anonymously and the Lord brought us to this area of Georgia to build this ministry center, a transformation center and we had just recently been given a building to start the transformation center at.
Sid: God must really want his people free, Phillip why is it that so many Christians are doing what George Barna said his six year research showed walking circular rather than possessing their land and accomplishing their destiny? Why is this not being taught and it isn’t in most churches?
Phillip: Well, I think it’s this is they are doing what they know to do and just like the Israelites this is what they knew to do, they had a slavery mentality and so this is the same in this day and time is that we are, you know we are slaves to our schedules. We are slaves to unhealthy relationships; we are slaves to addictions and things of that nature and just because I say I do to Christ doesn’t necessarily mean that we are living in victory. And that’s a process for people and when you begin to understand that God isn’t necessarily going to change everything for you, but what he’s looking to do is to do something in you that will also lead them through you. And so what I think is paramount for people is that they see that there is a way. See our lives are great examples of that. You know, we came from very dysfunctional backgrounds, we had to work through some things in the course of our life but God is using us and He can do the same with others out there.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah because everyone will not hear the good news unless you’re red hot for the Messiah. And one way to be red hot for the Messiah is to get in on the greatest healing revival the world has ever seen. And I believe that strategically God had me release this book “Supernatural Healing” it’s my latest book for such as this. This book is based on over thirty years of investigative reporting of the supernatural. There are three medical doctors that had the most amazing miracles in this book, but the thing that makes it so unique is that you will read these testimonies, then you will read the keys as to how these people got healed and one or more of these keys is going to unlock the door that’s stopping you from having a manifestation of your healing. And I believe your faith is going to so soar. For instance, I want you to hear an excerpt of an interview I did with Sid and Tom Renfro. Tom is an MD, Internal Medicine specialist and he developed terminal Lymphoma; no chance for survival except they believed that he was going to live. So his wife, Sid actually videotaped him every day and you can see in this footage, which I’ve looked at, you can see his body deteriorating day by day. But it really reached the point where it was so grotesque and it was grotesque that they had to stop video tapping. Let’s go to that excerpt.
Sid Renfro &Tom Renfro, MD excerpt: At this point we stopped making any pictures or capturing any video footage because he actually turned into just almost, he would say, “Who is this beast?” I finally took all the mirrors down in our home to where he couldn’t see himself because he had these huge tumors on his neck. His arms at this point actually went out so much he couldn’t even fit into a bathroom shower. We have to put him in the Jacuzzi and run a water hose from the shower into the Jacuzzi just to give him a bath. And it worsened he got to the point that he could hold a dry wash cloth but not a towel; not a washcloth if it was even wet. We brushed his teeth; he could physically do nothing for himself.
Sid: Okay, you took the mirrors down for him.
Sid Renfro: Right.
Sid: But how could, how could you, how could you look at his body getting more grotesque every moment?
Sid Renfro: Well, I looked at him through of course eyes of love, but also of eyes of faith of seeing him living and healed of this. And my friends asked me, “How, did you get through this on a day to day basis?” Because every morning I believed that day was the last day that we were going to receive a divine intervention every day. And I didn’t, I never thought there would be a tomorrow that it would be worse tomorrow. And of course it did and it worsened and it worsened progressively got worse.
Sid: But many people that believe that a miracle will happen, their spouses die, you know that.
Sid Renfro: Yes.
Sid: So why should your husband live?
Sid Renfro: And we were walking through this because we truly believed it in our hearts and we quoted the word of God. We researched in the word and different people sent us verses; we actually posted those verses on the wall around the room.
Sid: Give me one you posted on the wall.
Sid Renfro: Psalms 118:17 “I shall not die, but live and declare the works of the Lord.
Sid: Now, Sid Renfro, Tom’s wife is a real hero of faith, she literally would crawl on Tom’s decaying body and command him to live. Listen.
Sid Renfro: I was just commanding him to live, Isaiah 45:11 says “Concerning these things command yea me.”
Sid: How can you command him to live?
Sid Renfro: I’m a child of the King, I have what the promises of God are, they pertain to me. Jesus is a talker, and if Jesus is in us then we can talk and say what He would say. And He always went about doing good, healing all manner of diseases and raising the dead.
Sid: So you’re laying on him, you’re commanding him to live and not die.
Sid Renfro: Right.
Sid: Was there a certain point you felt that you could get off or?
Sid Renfro: Well, I could see a change in him.
Sid Renfro: Yes.
Sid: Could you feel a change at that time?
Dr. Tom Renfro: Yes
Sid: You remember that?
Dr. Tom Renfro: Less shortness of breath, less problems, whatever the problem was left and peace came in; peace.
Sid: As a medical doctor, explain to me the type of Lymphoma you had and what the prognosis is.
Dr. Tom Renfro: I was diagnosed with mantle cell lymphoma, it’s one of the rare forms of lymphoma and unfortunately the doctors told me at the time that there was no cure. That radiation wouldn’t cure this that bone marrow transplants and stem cell harvesting techniques have been tried and failed with this particular brand of lymphoma. That chemotherapy it may knock it back a little bit, but it would march right through as you progress through your chemotherapy, it would come right back.
Sid: To your knowledge has anyone ever been healed of this type of lymphoma?
Dr. Tom Renfro: To my knowledge, no.
Sid: What, I mean now, you’re a doctor, you know more than most people.
Dr. Tom Renfro: Right.
Sid: Did you in your wildest imagination ever think that you’d get cancer?
Dr. Tom Renfro: No, one of the greatest fears that I had when I was in medical school, and you know you see a lot of different diseases; one was either leukemia or lymphoma. Because I saw a lot of people suffering through that disease and inside of me there was a fear, “Lord, don’t ever lest this occur in my life.” And look what the devil brought; he brought right lymphoma to me.
Sid: And you told me earlier that you had another fear, of chemotherapy.
Dr. Tom Renfro: Right.
Dr. Tom Renfro: Chemotherapy, and don’t get me wrong, don’t misinterpret what I’m saying, it is something designed to kill and it has such horrendous side effects. I didn’t know if I would be able to withstand any of the side effects of chemotherapy. And to me I didn’t want to go that route, I didn’t want to have that in my body.
Sid: Now Tom as I understand it you decided to approach this as if it was a war.
Dr. Tom Renfro: Yes.
Sid: You were giving no ground to this disease, but the more you were giving no ground the more it was spreading, so didn’t you reach a point of discouragement?
Dr. Tom Renfro: There was a point of discouragement and it came when I was so sick and that is when that spirit of discouragement came upon me and says, “Why don’t you just give up? Why don’t you just let go of this notion that God’s going to do anything for you? Look at you.”
Sid: Wouldn’t it have been easier to give…I mean I’m sure the thought came that it’s easier to give up then to fight!
Dr. Tom Renfro: That’s right, it is sometimes you get so tired you just want to quit, that what is the use? But that’s where the Word and God’s Spirit just starts quickening within us and gives us more hope and gives us that ability to press on, to press on one more time.
Sid: Now when Sid covered up the mirrors and decided you can’t even look at yourself, you must have known that…you knew how bad off you were and you were getting worse progressively.
Dr. Tom Renfro: I did not want to look at myself, and I wanted to maintain the image of wholeness and completeness in my body. I didn’t want to look at myself and look at how sick I was. I wanted to have…I never did look at myself as sick. I never did perceive myself as what they had to look at.
Sid: These tumors were all over your body.
Dr. Tom Renfro: Right.
Sid: Your waist actually increased from what to what?
Dr. Tom Renfro: From a size 34 to 60.
Sid: Okay, as a, not as a doctor, but for a layman, describe what your body would’ve looked like at its worse state.
Dr. Tom Renfro: At my worse state I weighed over 200 pounds, around 230 pounds, I was a demotist from my neck down; anywhere you touched me would leave a dent where your fingers touched my body. I could take my thumb and forefinger and wrap it around my approximate arm and it touch on the other side. But yet I weighed over 200 pounds; I was centrally engorged with fluid. I had a size sixty waist; I had tumors the size of apples on my neck, tumors bigger than cantaloupes under my arms, my arms stuck out to my side. I had tumors in my groan, my toes looked like sausages they were so swollen, my feet were swollen. I was a mess; I was in a demonist mess.
Sid: Tom you’re doing everything you know to do to get your healing. However, a lot of people put God in a box, they almost have a formula and they say, “This is the way God has to heal me.” But that’s not true for you, explain.
Dr. Tom Renfro: That’s right, and I was guilty of that, I was catching myself saying “Lord You can heal me this way; this is a good way to heal me, why don’t You do it this way? But you know His ways are above our ways, and when I got to the point that I fully surrendered to God, and say “Lord, whatever you want me to do, I’ll be glad to do it.” Then God stepped in and He said, “Tom, now’s the time to go to the hospital.” I said, “Alright, that’s where I’m going.”
Sid: Now, most people taking a stance of I’m going to die anyway, I’ll just die in my home, but more important to follow what God for once.
Dr. Tom Renfro: Right, see I didn’t want to go to the hospital, as a physician I knew a lot of people died there.
Dr. Tom Renfro: A lot of sickness.
Sid: One way ticket.
Dr. Tom Renfro: Why would I want to go to that place, but I also didn’t want to take chemotherapy; I didn’t want to do that. I had a terrible fear of that, but God has a way of taking us and holding our hands and leading us through our worse fears, will bring victory in our lives.
Sid: Would chemotherapy have healed you?
Dr. Tom Renfro: No, they had told me previously, they said, “Tom chemotherapy will not work with this.” And when I was referred up to where I went to medical school, the University of Virginia they told me the same thing. They said, “We see the disease, we know that it’s there, but there is nothing we can do but go home and live.”
Sid: But you were obedient to God, you toke this chemotherapy and a day later, what started happening to you?
Dr. Tom Renfro: It wasn’t a day later, Sid it was while it was infusing on December 3rd of ’97. God took that just like the rock of David through and He did something, He anointed it, He changed it, He supercharged it. And He took that agent and He melted the tumors in front of your eyes. Tumors literally that were hard and the consistency of a firm apple turned into a sponge and started melting as you looked they were shrinking as you gazed on.
Sid: What did the other doctors say about this?
Dr. Tom Renfro: It changed their lives, it messed them up, they would come in, they had overwhelming joy; because here God was doing something that no man could do, no man could help me with. It was a fulfillment of what their desire was to see somebody being healed.
Sid: My guest Joan Hunter is so excited about demonstrating the Kingdom of God, why is she so excited to see all of these miracles and equipping Christians to walk in the same miracles anointing that she walks in? Because when you can demonstrate the Kingdom of God then you earn the right to proclaim who the King is. Whether someone’s a Moslem, whether someone is Jewish, whether someone is a Buddhist, whether someone is just a nominal Christian that has never been born from above that does not know that the Bible says, “This is eternal life, that you might know Him.” They think the Bible says this is eternal life, that you might join a church. Joan Hunter I feel sorry for people that think eternal life is joining a church, not only for what’s going to happen when they die, but even when they live.
Joan: That is true and people, God wants us free of everything that the enemy has done to us to destroy our hearts, destroy our minds and destroy our bodies.
Sid: You know one of the things I find fascinating is we know that trauma stays in the memory of the cells even if it doesn’t stay in the memory of the mind. And after a period of time it can cause disease. But what really blew me out of the water is when people have transplants like a heart transplant they have the memory of the person that formally had that heart. Give me an example of that.
Joan: Well, one lady, some of them are just absolutely amazing the stories, but one lady she got the heart transplant and then the first night she had a nightmare about a license plate, say Texas 123456 well the next night she had another nightmare Texas 123456 she’s like what is going on here? And she couldn’t figure out exactly what it was. Well after several nights they actually called in the police and it was like “Can you figure out what this means?” And so they went and found the car, the owner of the car and got a search warrant on the car, they searched the inside and out trunk and everything. In the trunk of the car they found some blood and some DNA of this man’s niece who he had tried to kill which put her in the trunk of the car and then just disposed of her body. Her body was found, she later died at the hospital and it was her heart that was transplanted into this recipient. And that man is actually still in prison today.
Sid: What that proves is there is a memory in every cell of our body. So when someone has a, give me an example of a person that not from a transplant to me that just scientifically proves it, but give me an example of someone that had a trauma and you prayed for them and what happened.
Joan: This is a recent one and I mean I’m going to work on not crying on not crying telling you this story because it’s so incredible and I have hundreds and hundreds of them. But this man came up to me and he said, “Forty-two years ago I was in a helicopter in Vietnam, it got blown up, I was thrown to the ground.” And he had a big scar on the side of his neck where it’s a miracles he lived where they had to do surgery and cut out some of the different things in his neck, rewire his neck because his neck was broken, jaw was broken and everything. And he has been in excruciating pain for forty-two years. Now, I laid hands on him, I cursed the spirit of trauma, commanded it to be gone, health and all the cellular memory to be completely gone and I commanded health and wholeness to that area. Then I started, I had my hand on his heart to start with, and I said, “I curse the spirit of trauma and I command all the nightmares that he has had of night after night, after night, after night of that helicopter exploding with him in it. And throwing him basically from it night, after night, after night and the pain left instantly, the spirit of trauma left in a very demonstrative way and he started crying, and crying and crying and he says the pain is gone. He says, “I feel so light, I feel so different I am a new man, I am so free of all of this stuff that happened in Viet Nam. And then I prayed of course to erase the pain of his past so that he would remember that he went to Viet Nam and that he would know that he had a helicopter accident, but actually everything about that and the experience of that plane and that helicopter going down is gone and out of his memory now.
Sid: You know Joan, the thing that I love about your complete training manual is you take each disease, you even show pictures of where to lay hands, you have the prayers, the specific prayers to pray. There’s seems to be in America an epidemic of diabetes; how do you pray for someone with diabetes?
Joan: The doctors told me that I would probably end up with diabetes myself and because my Mom had diabetes, she was healed of diabetes. I interne would go; they said, “Well, you know your Mom had it so you are going to get it.” Well, first of all I would deal with the generational curses of diabetes, which address in the manual how to break that, “Then I said, I cut those words off in Jesus name, I am not going to get diabetes.” And my blood sugar was showing that I could potentially move into that and I am like I am not moving over there, I actually serve, I served diabetes an eviction notice, it cannot come into my body in Jesus name. And I address any spirit of trauma and then in addition to that I dealt with, I said “I curse any spirit of diabetes, any diabetes I command it to be gone like Jesus cursed the fig tree and He commanded it to die from the very root. And so I said, “In the name of Jesus I speak a new pancreas that works fine and that my sugar levels will return to normal and stay normal in Jesus name.” And about six months later which was literally just a few weeks ago I went back in and it is absolutely perfect and I went hallelujah!
Sid: Now, when you say that I hear Francis Hunter saying, hallelujah. Has anyone ever told you that?
Joan: Mom’s in here, this is funny.
Sid: Tell me about the woman that instantly went from a size 18 to a size 12.
Joan: Well, she had a tumor in her abdominal; actually she had seventeen tumors in her abdominal area and her female organs. And I prayed and I said, “I curse those tumors in Jesus name I command it to be gone. I speak a whole new colon and new female organs in Jesus name and before the service she was in the back of the room comparing her belly with another lady who was eight months pregnant. And it was a tossup whose was bigger and it really was a tossup whose was bigger. But at the end of the service it was obvious the pregnant lady won because she went down from a size 18 to a 14 instantly and then by the next day and by the next week she was actually in a size 12 and I recently saw her and she’s still in a size 12.
Sid: How did you pray for her exactly?
Joan: I just cursed the name of the tumors, commanded them to be gone, spoke new intestines, new female organs, and she got it all.
Sid: It’s too simple Joan; it can’t be that simple.
Joan: I know, I know, but that’s the way it’s supposed to be! This is the way Jesus did it; you know He spoke to the fig tree curse, boom, curse, okay, how hard is that? He didn’t do the flowery prayers you know and you know like you go into the grocery store and you pray for somebody; there’s no praise and worship going on. A woman might not have her makeup on, you know she may not feel the anointing like, oh my hands aren’t hot, they’re not tingly, they’re not this. Somebody walks by and their sick, you can see them limping, you know and I always go (flip) the hands up, healing hands here we go, you know. And then you say “God sent me here to pray for you about?” And you think God’s sending me to the grocery store? Well, my steps are ordered of the Lord whether I’m at the grocery store or in the service ministering and the healing power of God, when you know that you walk in the authority and the authority information is covered in this manual. When you know that you walk in the authority you will walk in that authority no matter if you got makeup on, if you’re on the telephone, if you’re walking by somebody in the grocery store or drug store. I love going into drug stores and praying for people you know or in the airports or wherever we are we can walk in that anointing. You don’t have to generate the anointing, you don’t have to wait for the anointing to come on you; you just need to know and have the knowledge that you walk in that anointing.
Sid: Have people said to you after they’ve read your book that you have a gift of increasing their faith level? Has anyone ever told you that?
Joan: In exhortation in the area of faith, yes. It’s like they leave the healing schools and they go “You know what? I think I can do this,” I’m like, “I know you can, all you got to do is lay hands on the sick and do some of these things and pray.” And these are just like guidelines, they’re not like verbatim, you go out to the grocery store and say “Oh I forgot my manual!” You don’t have to worry about that because God will give you the words, but just get the general idea.
Sid: But when you take, I have to ask you this, when you take each disease and you point out the root causes of the disease, you point out exactly the areas that you should pray in for this disease, if someone doesn’t follow that and just says “In Jesus name be healed” I don’t believe their going to get as many healed as if they understand the root causes of the diseases.
Joan: Absolutely, absolutely you know I know that I have the power and I can say in Jesus name and a few people have been healed. But I realized that when I appropriate the power of God, speak directly to the tendonitis in somebody’s elbow that’s listening right now, command that to be gone, all the inflammation and pain to go in Jesus name; it is going, it’s gone now in Jesus name!
Sid: It would be so wonderful for Joan Hunter to personally mentor you just as her parents mentored her. Some of her revelation on trauma and erasing the pain…
Sid: And I’ll tell you what, after listening to this week’s broadcast you are going to be so red hot for the Messiah. My guest, Gary Kah and he’s exposing things that are going on that the secular media has purposely hidden from us and he knows names, countries, key players that all fit in to the end time scenario from the Bible. Gary but many Christians and many non-Christians are in favor of a one world government. One world religion, what is so wrong with that with the world seemingly crumbling before our very eyes?
Gary: Yeah, it’s going to look good but it’s going to big deception, it is probably going to come about in the name of world peace and world unity and that’s what’s so attractive about it. But in Revelation Chapters 13 & 14 especially there is talk about a global system that would exist in the last days. And this global system would have to be in place in order for the anti-Christ to rule over the world. And when you see…
Sid: And initially it’s going to look very very good.
Sid: Because people aren’t going to show their true colors but I guess initially Adolf Hitler looked pretty good when the economy was coming apart in Germany.
Gary: Well, that’s just it, yeah people went for it and he did a lot of good things early on to sure up the economy, but we all know now how it ended you know. And there are people involved at the forefront of this one world movement trying to bring about this global government that are, I know for a fact very much involved in the occult in Eastern Mysticism. Many of them are strongly opposed to Christians and Conservative Jews and have made some strong statements against them and so the handwriting is on the wall here. And also in Matthew Chapter 24, Jesus said, He warned that we would not be deceived that the last generation that there would be an incredible amount of deception. That there would be many false christs and false prophets that would go out even in His name, he said but do not believe them. And He said that it would be so deceptive that even the elect could be deceived if that were possible. And so we have to be on our toes and believe me when I first stumbled on to these things and began to research them there were moments where I couldn’t believe that this was happening. But when you see the evidence and if you do research with an open mind and see where these people are coming from and what they intend to do and where they’re going it runs very strongly contrary to scripture. And I see it as a very dangerous movement and of course scripture prophesized that this would take place. We were prophesied in order to be warned against it not to be part of it and to promote it.
Sid: Now you see very harmful thing happening that most people, Christians and non-Christians alike see as wonderful and that’s an ecumenical movement of Christians and Muslims and Catholics and even Jews uniting together. What’s so wrong with that as long as you can keep your own individual belief?
Gary: Well, in order to bring about a global government there has to be a coming together a type of unification of the world’s religions and that has been well understood in the political One World Circles. And this has been their biggest challenge over the years and especially when it comes to the Christianity and Islam and Islam and Judaism. How can you bring those religions together? And so there have been a number of initiatives an increasing number of initiatives especially over the last few years promoting inter-faithism. And in October of 2010, last year the UN passed a resolution establishing an interfaith harmony week which is to be celebrated during the first full week of February each year. This is going to be an annual event, and so this past year they had interfaith Harmony Breakfast for example held all across the world. And the main push behind this is really to bring Christians and Muslims together. But the problem is it’s always Christians doing the compromising on this and so it’s really clearing a path for Christians to cozy up to Islam.
Sid: But wait a second Gary, most Christians I know they would love to be part of a conversation with Muslims for the sake of evangelizing them.
Gary: I totally support that and agree with that in fact we have a back yard neighbor named Mohamed so we have Muslims right in our neighborhood and we reach out to them and we are friendly toward them and do whatever we can to set a strong example for the sake of the truth and Jesus. But was is happening here through these organized activities is that there is no evangelism going on, it is really just a cozying up with Islam and that is the danger that I see in it. In fact this whole UN initiative was kicked started by Jordan’s King Abdullah and Prince Gozie and it was found upon some of the UN previous interfaith activities and especially the common word program as it’s called which the Muslim’s call it. It originated as a Muslim call to bridge building with the Christian community. But when they say bridge building again there is more to it than that, it is really to try to infiltrate and penetrate the Christians community and bring it in to Islamic circles. Christian leaders in the response to that document called for greater connections with Islam and equated the God of the Old and New Testament with the Koran. And again certain Christian leaders are moving in the direction of Islam or at least coming much closer to it. And they ended up signing a document in that regard called loving God and neighbor together.
Sid: Now that sounds good.
Gary: Sounds good, doesn’t it.
Gary: It does, but again when you follow these meetings and the statements that have been made at the meetings or the lack of statements never is anything mentioned about Yeshua or Messiah in terms in being the way and the only way. But rather this openness, this unspoken interfaithism that other religions or pathways to God and so we have to make a decision there. Are other religions pathways to God? Does it not matter that if you believe in Buddhism, or Islam or whatever or is the God of the Bible completely unique from these other gods? And I can contend that He is and we have to make a stand on that, and we have to do so in a loving compassionate way to be sure, but none the less we have to stand for the truth and especially in light of what Jesus said would take place in the last days and how deceptive things would be. So I am very concerned about this.
Sid: Now there is that I don’t understand, I understand what you’ve just said, there is something that I don’t understand because in this document that was signed by 300 Christian leaders and when I say leaders, these are household words, I mean it includes the National Association of Evangelicals. That so for sure when they’re top leaders and they make a statement I’m quoting this is what I don’t understand. “Mohammed preached a god of love.” Gary: Yeah.
Sid: I don’t get that, any one that knows history, anyone that’s read the Koran knows that’s not true.
Gary: And these are the kind of statements that are being made at these meetings as well. It opens up the gateway to Islam, to be accepted. And again we should love the Islamic people and reach out to them, but to change our beliefs so that it facilitates and works together with Islam, that’s a trap of the enemy. That is setting the stage for a coming together of the world’s religions and ultimately a World Government that will be ruled over by the anti-Christ. This is the single biggest deception in the whole thing is what is taking place on the religious front. Sid there is a coming together of the political side of this movement and the religious side and in fact you’re no stranger to the word, to the name Counsel of Foreign Relations. This is an organization that since 1921 has been promoting globalization and ultimately World Government, although there are people in the organization that would not necessarily agree with everything and I want to throw that in. But overall the direction of the CFR has been toward empowerment of the UN moving us in the direction of global government. And they are now in a sense taking a final step into the religious realm by co-opting their goals and activities through religious groups to further their own purposes. And unfortunately it seems like many pockets of the church are increasing open to this and I’m speaking here specifically about the global faith form that was held in Dallas Texas back and again, a number of Christian organizations that were sponsors of this meeting right along with counsel on foreign relations. And to the best of my knowledge this has never happened before. This is something new at this level…
Sid: So it’s a marriage between the One World Government and the One World Religion, is that what you’re saying?
Gary: Exactly. It’s definitely opening up the door to that to make that easier down the road. It’s I say at the point where we are right now it would still take a few years to bring this all together but its moving quite rapidly. And I think that we’re just maybe one major world crisis away from all of this jelling and coming together. And so the stage is clearly being set.
Sid: Now Gary, in your DVD’s you mention specific names, evangelicals that are involved that I have to tell you are household words. You mention you get very specific in that, I’m curious, has this gotten you in trouble?
Gary: Well, to a large extent we have been flying beneath the radar so to speak.
Sid: Well, you’re not going to be any more, once we get these DVD’s out.
Gary: Yeah, I have done a number of talk shows on this and back in the ‘90s I was even asked to run as Lieutenant Governor or Indiana by one of the candidates who is planning and so I’ve had visibility and I have spoken on this. But when it comes to the mass media they have stirred clear of. And so the average American is not aware of this but a growing number of people in Christian and Jewish circles are becoming aware of it now. And you know and they need to be aware of it, but I had to decide what to do and whether I’m willing to suffer any consequences that come with it. But I believe the hour is so late that we have to be willing to speak the truth in love and do so without apologizing for it. And anyone who knows me closely knows that I am not a hateful person, that I love the Islamic people, that I love the Hindu people…
Sid: Gary, we’re out of time right now.
Sid: My guest, Dennis Jernigan is red hot for the Messiah. You know Dennis I understand and I have to tell you something that you would probably not know about me but I was involved in the New Age before I became a believer. And I was Jewish and I got in over my head, I realized that there was a devil, I realized that there was evil, I wanted out and Jesus literally rescued me, set me free and I don’t even understand backsliders when you know what’s back there. Is that part of what happened with you Dennis?
Dennis: Well, I was so overwhelmed with the lie of the enemy that there came that point and I shared with your listeners in the earlier interviews that after my mentor made that advance on me…
Sid: And for those that are listening for the first time, Dennis was a Christian, he had played the piano in church, he was a worship leader, but he was homosexual and he was living in such a conflict that he even despaired of life so go ahead.
Dennis: Well, what I was going to say was, there came a point after that night when I tried to take my life that even in the middle of, I turned on my gas stove and didn’t light the flame and I just couldn’t take it anymore it was just the pressure was too much. And I heard this little voice say to me, “Are you prepared for what awaits you in eternity? And that scared me so badly I get up after a few minutes, turn off the gas and I make this declaration to my own self this is just the way that I was born, I am going to stop fighting it. So I lived the next year believing that this was all I had to look forward to in my life. But what really happened at that “Second of Acts” concert was that the Lord met me with the reality of who He says I am. I had been seeing life from the wrong perspective, so when we get to that place where we understand, “You know what, I’m who my Father says I am, I am not defined by my past, I’m not defined by what tempts me, I’m not defined by any present circumstances there’s only one who gets to define me and that’s my Creator and so I had better be going to Him.” So that’s what happened to me, I just decided “You know what, I’m not even going to believe my own feelings anymore; in fact you know what You feel Father; in fact when I go to lead worship, that’s how I lead worship. “Lord would you give me a sense of the need for this group and then besides that would you just let me feel what you feel toward them so I can tap into what you feel towards them.” And my goodness, I can’t go wrong even in my leading of worship because it all begins and ends with Jesus, it just does.
Sid: Now in your wildest imagination could you believe when you were in the midst of sin, in the midst of such turmoil you couldn’t even think straight that you would be married with nine children? As a matter of fact, you had a vision of that, you must have thought that must have been a pizza vision.
Dennis: Well, after the Lord, in November 7th 1981 I can just remember I can never forget that day, but when the Lord began to flood me with His love, he also began to flood me with an understanding of who He says I am and if He says I am this, or I am that then I am going to choose to believe that. And in the process of that, He said, “What do you want out of life, Son? Well, here’s what I have for you, I want you to be the children of many children.” I said, “Well, Lord, I do I want many children.” And the number that came into my heart was the number nine and the funny story of that to show you the power of the Holy Spirit after Melinda and I became pregnant with what we thought was number eight Melinda just felt like this is all the grace I have left, I have grace for eight.
Sid: I don’t know how she had grace for eight, but go ahead. Ha-ha.
Dennis: I said, okay Lord, I thought I heard you but I missed you before and I could have missed you, and He said “No, I told you nine, there are two in there.” And so I told Melinda, “You are going to have twins.” And then my daughter Hannah, who was six at that time had a dream from the Lord, and in this dream, the Lord showed her that she was going to have twin brothers. So she told her Momma, you are going to have twins so Melinda wouldn’t believe it but low and behold, when it came time to have that first ultrasound, Melinda called me and said, “Are you sitting down?” She said, “It’s twins, and so the Lord really did give us that particular number and then it came to past.
Sid: Now give me a description of the atmosphere in your praise gatherings, what are you after, what are you looking for?
Dennis: My number one goal is to, all I have to do as a worship leader, this is the truth, is to remind people that God is there and that they need to deal with that reality. And then we begin wherever I feel like the Holy Spirit says to begin. I don’t necessarily begin with celebration but a lot of times I do, but I want people to understand that this is what’s going on in Heaven, let’s take part in that. And even and because I have so many people who come who don’t have a charismatic background or don’t understand outward demonstrations of worship I’ll often begin with this, you know what there are people here in this group tonight who this is going to be outrageous to them. You are going to see people doing things that you reserve for football games even, but here’s the deal, he who has been forgiven much, loves much. So I want you to extend grace to those that are very demonstrative and now you people that are very demonstrative you need to extend grace to those that this is brand new to and don’t try to force them into your mold because God is totally giving them the peace of mind to just soak in His presence. Both are acceptable, both are good, so when I set the people at ease in that way, you’d be surprised how free people get. And in the midst of that, all I’m doing is okay Lord, where do we go next, okay Lord, who do you want me to sing over next? In fact there was one time, it was probably ten years ago we were having a New Years Eve night of praise in Oklahoma City and I felt the Holy Spirit say “Ask all of those who are considering taking their lives tonight to stand. And those that are coming and this is their last resort, we had over fifty people stand. And I just asked the people present to go lay hands on those people and I sang a prophetic song over them and not one of those people took their lives that night.
Sid: Well, I believe that as we play one of your songs the anointing will be so strong that even before they get their CDs deliverance is going to happen. Tell me about the song that you received called, “Holy is Your Name.”
Dennis: Well, that is…the Lord’s Name is so significant to me that when we begin a relationship with anyone we get to know their name and with that name we attach, we associate their character, their nature. So I went on this long journey of understanding the covenant names of God. Jehovah Shema, Jehovah Tsidkenu, Jehovah Rophe, all the names that He calls Himself throughout the word and then I realized that because this is my Father and this is who He says I am, then that has a whole realm of possibility for me as an heir and joint heir with Christ. So the magnificent, holiness of God is available to me as His child, as His new creation. So it’s a song of worship just extolling the fact that our God is holy, He is like no other god and there is no other god who could be like Him.
Sid: “Holy is Your Name” by Dennis Jernigan.
Music excerpt: “Holy is Your Name” Dennis Jernigan
Sid: That was the Psalmist, Dennis Jernigan and I promise you the anointing is so strong in the studio right now, is so strong on his music, is so strong on his words that this is you know I keep saying this every time I get a new CD, but without a doubt this the strongest I have ever seen in our prayer meetings when we use his music for that.
Sid: And I have Pastor Bill Ligon in the studio today and you have the privilege of learning something that has been hijacked, has been stolen from the Church. The power of imparting the Blessing. What the Jewish Patriarchs knew that the Church today does not. How could a slave nation that is freed become one of the greatest nations in the world; how did that develop but God; but the power of God? Now Pastor Bill, tell me how God pulled this off, I mean all of these slaves in the desert and organizing them? I mean you would think that everyone would be going their own way.
Bill: When you consider Sid that these people had in four hundred years history of slavery, they had been verbally cursed and abused, they had been physically cursed and abused in many many ways and God gave Moses that challenge. Not only to deliver them from bondage to the strongest dictator of his day and take them through a desert but into a land filled with hostile tribes and establish them as a great nation with self esteem. These people had no self worth, they had no self esteem and God gave to Moses three pillars of faith to accomplish that. Those three pillars of faith have got to be present in the lives of people with low self esteem, low self worth in order for their lives to be changed and for them to accomplish their mission and their purpose and know their identity and their destiny in this life. Those three that God gave to Moses first of all were the Blood Covenant, we call it the Passover. He delivered them from Pharaoh’s control in Egypt through the power of the Blood; the same thing that God will do to deliver people today. When they got out to Mount Sinai he called Moses up on the mountain and there he gave him the moral code; we call it the Ten Commandments. But he gave him the moral code of God, the first four of which told them how to relate to God; the last six how to relate to one another. That moral code is so important in the lives of God’s people. In Psalm 19 the Bible says that this law of God this moral code of God converts the soul; changes the lives of people. But then God gave to Moses the High Priestly Blessing. And that High Priestly Blessing in Numbers Chapter 6:23-26 releases God’s favor upon his people and changes them. Changes people from having no self esteem, no moral worth to having a great confidence in God and great confidence in themselves.
Sid: It’s the supernatural.
Sid: Of the supernatural God that is released that has been stolen from the Church.
Bill: That’s right and one of the first evidences that I saw, the power of this happened when shortly after we began to teach the principals of blessing in the church. One of the mothers called me and said Pastor, “We have a real problem in our home.” I said, “What is it?” She said “Our seventh grader he failed the seventh grade and he just brought home his first six weeks report card with all F’s.” What do I do? And I said, “Well, you and your husband bring him to me.” She said, “Well, I want you to know that we’ve tried everything, we’ve tried spanking him, rewarding him, we’ve had him in to counselor’s office at school, we’ve had him in the principal’s office; nothing is working.” So when I met the boy, I saw that he had no self esteem, no self worth, now there were things that we had to do to change his life. So we took the same pillars of faith that God gave to Moses and we applied them to that boy’s life. First of all, we taught his parents to pray and ask him to give them a different understanding of the potential in their son. Because all they saw was his failure and they spoke his failure over him, they said “If you don’t change you will never make anything of yourself.” So they began to understand that they had to see the potential in this boy.
Sid: They were doing the blessing in reverse…
Bill: They were cursing him.
Sid: They were cursing him, yes.
Bill: They were speaking spoken curses over his life.
Sid: And it was working.
Bill: Exactly and the teachers were doing the same thing. And I taught the boy that the spoken blessing is the only thing that will break the spoken curse over your life. So I had two things going on simultaneously. First I had the parents laying hands on their son and speaking life and health over him every day. May the Lord bless you with self esteem, may the Lord bless you with the ability to concentrate to retain information, to study properly, to behave in the school. May the Lord give you those qualities and then I taught the boy how to bless his teachers because they were curing him. I didn’t have access to his teachers and when he had learned well, I sent him to school the next day when he went to each classroom he approached the teachers desk, he said, “Teacher may I speak to you a moment?” “What is it trouble maker?” “Well, I want you to know that I am sorry for the way that I’ve acted in your class but you’re an excellent teacher and may God raise you up to be the star teacher in this school and may the Lord give you favor in all that you do in success and in all of your ways.” I had a whole series of blessings that he was to speak over his teachers to breaks the curse over himself. Well, one teacher out of all of them took the occasion to curse him again. He said, “You are a liar, I don’t believe anything that you say, you’ll never make anything out of yourself, I don’t want you in my classroom.”
Sid: That must have crushed that young man.
Bill: Well, I had him ready, I had him prepared, he just remained quiet, didn’t react to it he didn’t get angry. When the teacher was through he said, “I understand how you feel and I’m sorry for that but you’re an excellent teacher and may God raise you up to be the star teacher in this school” and he spoke the blessing the second time.
Sid: Oh, he must have crushed that teacher.
Bill: I asked him, I said, “What did the teacher do?” He said, he just sat there quietly for a moment and then said, “Well if you feel that way maybe we can try again.” And that day that boy broke the spoken curses over his life. Many people struggle Sid with spoken curses over their lives from their own parents and from their brothers and sisters or siblings; from other people, from teachers in schools and from colleagues at work. They struggle under those curses in their lives. That boy broke it that day, he finished high school with all A’s and B’s, was invited to enter pilots school and trained and became a jet pilot and began to fly cargo jets around the world. That’s the boy that the teachers and the parents were saying were saying, “He would never make anything out of himself.” And the power of the blessing is what God used to reverse that boys life, just like God used the power of the blessing to change those enslaved Israelites into a great nation.
Sid: Now I want you to point out, because we talking before we went on the air there is so much you cover in your course, but tell me about the value of the spoken blessing in scripture. Let’s go all the way back to Adam and Eve.
Bill: Well, when God first created Adam and Eve as recorded in Genesis 1:27 & 28. The first thing that God did for Adam and Eve was to speak a blessing over them. And this is the blessing He spoke. He said that, he blessed them and said, the scripture says He blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.” Now one of the great Hebrew scholars, a German theologian by the name of Dr. Clause Vestryman says in one of his writings that he finds in the Hebrew that at that point God released on Adam and Eve the power of procreation. And when my wife and I saw that we began to bless husbands and wives who were barren and hadn’t been able to bear children.
Sid: Now I know about your Son and Daughter –in-law, they were in that situation, they couldn’t have children. What happened to them?
Bill: They have five today.
Sid: I know that.
Bill: Five children, which are my precious grandchildren of course and God did that for us. We have for instance about two hundred grandchildren around the nation who God gave to these barren couples because of the blessing being spoken over their lives. And I could go on and tell you exactly…
Sid: I have a better idea; there are some people listening right now and their saying, “Bring it on Pastor Bill, pray that blessing over me.” Now there are some others that are saying, don’t you dare pray that blessing over me. Would you pray right now for barren woman that want to have children?
Bill: If you are a barren wife right now and you want to have children I encourage you right now to put one hand toward your radio and the other hand on your stomach. Now, if you are driving just put a hand on your stomach and you receive it right now. And so “May the Lord Himself now, bless you and release upon you the power of procreation, may you be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and may the Lord break now the curse of barrenness over your body in the name of Yeshua, Jesus our Messiah, Amen.”
Sid: You know there is something about speaking the blessing of God and even revealing it that is releasing a presence of God in this studio over that prayer. But I believe that we’ve just hit something where it’s not just barrenness it’s anything based on the promises of God. I mean you’re seeing, in fact on tomorrow’s broadcast I want you to tell me about how it plays out in your home. How it works with your two sons, how it works in your marriage. Because we have marriages that are in trouble in the United States of America and throughout the world and I believe the revelation that you have obtained literally through prayer and through study over tall these years are going to transform people. When you teach your seminar in person and of course we have the four CDs, what kind of feedback are you getting from people that go through your book or listen to your seminars?
Bill: When they apply the principals, when they study these principals, they get the materials and study it and apply these principals to their lives we see tremendous results. We have testimony after testimony of peoples whose lives have changed because they have began to release the spoken blessing over one another.
Sid: I believe it’s going to revolutionize your marriage; it’s going to revolutionize your children; I believe that it’s going to revolutionize your business; your health, your relationships. And I believe I told Pastor Bill this, but many years ago when I was exposed to this teaching my father who comes from an Orthodox Jewish background and did not know the Messiah, of course, I asked him to bless me. And do you know what he did Pastor Bill, he put his hands on me and he prayed the Aaronic Blessings. On my Father’s death bed he received the Lord and He’s in heaven today… oops were out of time.