Sid: We want everyone everywhere to partake of this new paradigm that God is about ready to do because there’s going to be such an outpouring of God’s Spirit on planet earth that the old wineskins are brittle, they won’t contain all of the glory. That’s why I am so excited about this previously unpublished manuscript, it’s still unpublished. I persuaded Pastor Robert Heidler to print this up and it’s called “The Messianic Church.” It has the goods, the history of how we got from something that was 100% Jewish, to something that traditional Jewish people feel is the opposite of Judaism and everything. You know what, when you look at it it appears to be the opposite. Pastor Robert Heidler I mean it’s almost outrageous it’s one of the greatest con jobs in history to take the church out of its natural setting, Jewish, and insert it into a pagan Gentile setting, pagan. I have to believe the reason this was done was to have a clear wall of separation between Jews and Christians for diabolical purposes.

Robert: Exactly. You know Paul says “In Christ that wall of separation is broken down” but when you look at the church today that wall has been resurrected and that was not God’s purpose.

Sid: Listen the master politician, Constantine, was able to salvage his empire by melding paganism and Christianity, and cutting out everything Biblically Jewish, even to the form of what we call the church. You were talking about that yesterday and there was a quote, we had to end a little too early from The Learning Channel. Would you repeat that?

Robert: Yes, in The Learning Channel they had a show called “Rome: The Power and The Glory.” They went through the rise of the Roman Empire in the fall, and the last show in the series was on the fall of the empire. They said this, “It’s interesting that imperial Rome is probably best preserved in the church it once persecuted.” He said “Look at a church and see what you see is the architecture of the imperial throne room. Sit in a church and what you hear is imperial court ceremony. Solemnity, the choir, and the hymns are derived from the ceremonies of the Roman Imperial Court.” I mean that’s a secular historian just looking factually saying “This is what you see in the church did not come from Jesus and the apostles; the forms of worship that are common in the church really came from a pagan Roman source.” It’s interesting one quote I have in the book, in the manuscript, from Constantine less than one year after his conversion, supposedly to Christianity. He made the following decree, he said “I am going to make plain to them what kind of worship is to be offered to God. What higher duty do I have as emperor than to cause all to offer to all Mighty God true worship, true religion, and due worship.” So here is a pagan emperor he looks at the worship of the church and it’s offensive to him. It’s very Jewish, and he says “We’ve got to teach the church a better way to worship God.”

Sid: Where did the separation come between the laity, the laymen, and the clergy, where did this come from?

Robert: Well I think it came from just what we’re talking about here with the church. You know moving the church from the house church into the basilica church’s that Constantine made, it made a whole new pattern for church life. In the house church everyone participated, everyone was encouraged to know the word, and to minister. When you move it into a basilica you have a throne at the front for the bishop, and you have the clergy that do all the rituals and the ministries. Out in the congregation people just come and sit and observe. It’s interesting we talked about Constantine bringing Mithraism into Christianity. In the early church every believer was supposed to know how to minister, they were supposed to know the word, they were gifted by God to do the things of God. Mithraism was mystery religion, and only the initiated only the priests were allowed to know the sacred truths, and everyone else was just to come and observe the truths in ignorance. So Constantine really made that shift where by the Middle Ages Bibles were written a language people didn’t know and were chained to the pulpit where they couldn’t be read.

Sid: Hmm.

Robert: Because they did not want the common people to know the word of God, to know how to minister. It became… it was really the pattern that Constantine had put in where you have a clergy that knew the hidden sacred truths; people would come and observe and take part in the rituals hoping to receive some spiritual benefit from it.

Sid: You know I’m looking through your manuscript right now, and I really want to read your description of a visit to an early church which was a house church, let me read this. “As we walk through the door you look across the entrance into the large open courtyard of the home. There appears to be some kind of a party going on. Some of the people are playing flutes, lyres, and tambourines while others are singing, dancing and clapping their hands. You immediately look around to make sure you’ve come into the right house as you listen to the words. However, you realize that this is the right place for the words of the songs are words of praise to Jesus. These people are overflowing with joy because they’ve come to know the living God. What you are witnessing is the way the early church praised God. This type of worship is foreign to much of the church today, but from the Biblical and historical records this is what the worship in the early church was like. It was a free and joyful celebration with a great deal of singing and dancing. Most church services would begin with the people getting in a ring, or several concentric rings, and dancing Jewish style ring dances, like the Hora.” It says “There’s a great deal of singing and dancing and rejoicing in the Lord. As the songs slow down a little many people get down on their knees before the Lord, most are lifting up hands to Him, a tremendous sense of the Lord’s presence fills the courtyard. During the church’s praise and worship there are spontaneous shouts of praise, some shout ‘Amen!’ to voice their agreement with what others have said. As we enter into the worship we’re overwhelmed by the love and acceptance of the people. After much singing and dancing food is brought out people find their seats to prepare for the meal. We’re surprised to see people eating a meal in the middle of a church service, but this is described by Paul in 1st Corinthians, as well as by Jude and Peter. This shared weekly meal is called the ‘Love Feasts’ or ‘Agape.’ To begin the meal one of the leaders stands with a cup blesses the Lord and passes it around so each one can drink from it. He then picks up a loaf of bread and offer thanks. It’s also passed from person to person, this is the Lord’s supper in its original context. The meal is joyful centered on devotion to the Lord. As they eat the believers talk about the things of God, share testimonies, and recite and discuss scripture, sing praises to the Lord. You’re impressed that while very few have personal copies of any Biblical books most of those present appear to have large portions of the Bible memorized. After the meal ends worship continues till at some point a change begins to take place. There’s a subtle shift in the atmosphere, the air seems to thicken, a tangible sense of the presence of God comes and rest in the place.” Now I’m going to stop right here Robert, but that’s the point where it’s like heaven touches earth.

Robert: Yes.

Sid: And miracles break out… you know I’m reminded of this young generation that we have that was raised in the church is leaving the church in droves. This young generation we have basically their not even born again anymore. What if they had been raised in this kind of environment?

Robert: Yes, yes.  What I see here Sid, what you just described is the wineskin that God created to the hold the new wine. So often we hold up to Him a pagan wineskin and say “Lord we want Your Spirit” but when He pours a Spirit it can’t hold in what He wants to pour out.

Sid: Mishpochah, God is about ready to bring the Biblical Jewish roots, not the rabbinical roots, not a religious spirit of “Do this or you’re not saved” but a freedom like the church has not witnessed. We will not lose this next generation which might be the last generation before the Messiah comes. You know I’m reading from your manuscript right here and it says “Everyone who studies the early church is amazed at its phenomenal growth. Some historians estimate by the end of the 3rd century half of the population of the Roman Empire had converted to Christianity. Why was this tremendous growth, and then it was just cut off at the roots.

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