Sid: I have a pleasant surprise my guests are in the studio normally…you don’t even know this but normally they’re on the telephone oh I tell you most of the time. But this case I have Doug and Jean Jones from Shiloh Place Ministries in the studio.  I was recently at a seminar Jack Frost Conference which they taught on a subject that too few believers even know exist let alone understand.  It’s called “Exposing Bitterroot Strongholds.”  Jean what are bitterroots and what are strongholds involving bitterroots?

Jean: Well strongholds are really a collection of thoughts that are lies against what God has revealed about Himself.  It’s like you’ve seen a fortress over in Europe…

Sid: Right.

Jean: We’ve seen fortresses and castles and they have these big stones that are built one upon the other and that’s what we do inside of us when we’re brought up with lies like “You can’t do anything right,” or “Why do you act so stupid or why are you so stupid or you’re never going to amount to anything” just lies and things that we hear.

Sid: But but when you get born again we read the word and we know better and most Christians are walking around with these wounds how come?

Jean: That’s right because man is spirit, soul and body and when we’re born again our spirit is made new and that’s who we are in Christ. But it says “We have to bring every thought into subjection to the Lord Jesus.” And so we still have and we still act in the flesh just like Paul said “The things I want to do I don’t do and the things I don’t want to do I do.” Because we still have the flesh to bring into control.

Sid: Now you were telling me before we went on the air…you were telling me about a pastor that took this seminar tell me a bit about him.

Jean: This pastor he came for ministry and he had been to 4 or 5 different churches and he would have a nice honeymoon period after he’d get to the church and he really loved  the Lord and God’s people but after he’d been there a couple of years they would begin to argue and he had left these 4 or 5 churches.

Sid: It was like the same pattern was happening and he didn’t know why.

Jean: The same pattern in his life and so he was just real discouraged and really hurt.  And he asked “What can I do and what’s wrong?” And you know we began to blame-shift at those people but after the pattern occurs over and over we begin to realize that the pattern may be inside of us. So the question was asked “Has anyone in your life ever treated you this way?” And he said “Well yes my dad.”  And he said “My dad was a leader in the church but my mother had an affair before I was born and he thought that I was the product of that affair.”

Sid: Hm.

Jean: And so he treated me harshly and he treated the other children the family nicely and I just felt so different and I was always so harshly by my father and he was demeaning to me. And so that’s….

Sid: You would think that he would do the opposite in his church because he had such abuse that he would go around bending over backwards loving people.

Jean: Hmm hm. You would but there was an expectancy in him that people and especially males are going to treat me harshly.  And after awhile that’s what happened that was the pattern and he expected inside of himself that people really don’t like me and they really are going to demean me and treat me that way.

Sid: Well Doug and by the way he was set free from this teaching that we’ll be making available.  Doug Jones I know this but most people… let’s start out with how long have you been married?

Doug: We’ve been married for 39 years.  And in my life I’ve been happily married for probably 30 and ½ of those years.

Sid: And did you get that Mishpochah he’s been married for 39 years and he’s been happily married for 30…

Doug:  Thirty and ½ years at least?

Sid: Why?

Doug: Because I was living in a vacuum (Snicker). And I did not know of the problems that I was creating myself in my marriage.  I was in such a manipulator a controller what we call a dim person. I was dominating, intimidating, and manipulating.  My whole life was built around control and as long as I was controlling my family I thought I was doing alright I was happy as long as I was in charge and in control.

Sid: Tell me a bit about your background.

Doug: My background was I was raised by a father who worked hard worked 2 jobs provided for the family but he was a hurt and wounded man. He was a good man but as a child I didn’t recognize him as a good man I saw him as a harsh bitter person full of anger, full of frustration and corporal punishment was really something I experienced everyday for about 4 years.  I had a beating every day and I can rationalize that I deserved it because I was so rebellious. He would say cut the grass at 4:00 I’d wait until 4:30 to cut it just out of spite and I’d get a whipping everyday I’d do something like that just out of rebellion against the authority.  Because when I was a young boy maybe 6 to 8 years old my father came home in the middle of the night one time and he beat my mother.  I was in the bedroom next to their room and I could literally hear his fist hitting her flesh upside the head and it destroyed me emotionally I was so full of anger and bitterness I wanted to kill my father. I even tried as a little boy I’d go home and pick the shotgun that was over the door and go up and I wanted to kill my father but I could not reach the gun so obviously I could not do what I wanted to do physically. But emotionally as I grew older I did kill my father. I emotionally divorced my father and because of the way he treated my mother and the way that he treated me as a young child I could not handle that.  I could not trust the authority that was over me because they were always bitter and overbearing and many times what I considered the wrong choices. And in doing so to protect myself I began to build these walls these strong holds around me so I would be in control. And if anything had to be done I’d be the one that would make the decision I would let my parents make decisions for me and it affect me drastically in my later life in my business and my marriage because I had to be right.  I had to be in charge in control because of these judgments I judged my father for being harsh and bitter and he beat my mother.  And I thought I was okay because I never beat my wife physically what I did I beat her verbally I just completely annihilated her with my tongue.

Sid: Now you were born again at the time or not?

Doug: I got born again at age 18 before I got married.

Sid: So why did you do this if you were born again?

Doug: Well like my wife said when I was born again I was born again and the scripture clearly tells us we are spirit and we worship God in Spirit and truth but what we struggle against is our flesh and our soul and our mind, will and our emotions.  My being my real person was born again when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior but I struggled with my flesh and my soul which was not redeemed.  Paul tells us that we have to…now it’s a constant battle…

Sid: Did you realize that you were struggling or did you think your problem was your wife?

Doug: No I didn’t think…I was struggling but I was struggling against my wife, against my job and against everyone else was wrong but not me.

Sid: Jean you lived it did you think that you were the person that was doing wrong and you deserved what was going on. What was going on inside of you?

Jean: No I didn’t at first but Doug and I went together 4 years and we went together 2 years in high school and 2 years in college and then we got married. The Doug I knew and dated was not the Doug I married.

Sid: Hmm (Laughing).

Jean: And now we know that when we say “I do” things change and that’s what happened with us his personality changed and I saw the angry person that he was.

Sid: What did you do about it?

Jean: Well I was making plans in my mind to leave.

Doug: But she cried a lot.

Jean: The first 2 years I didn’t cry as much as later but we used to play a lot of bridge together in college and we played and before we did real well together but after we were married it was like everything was my fault we got so we couldn’t even play games together because there was such competition and such anger in him and I was just making plans to leave. So we both had a desire to help people and the Peace Corp was new at that time and so in a whim we filled out an application for the Peace Corp and we were accepted.

Sid: So exported your problems (Laughing).

Jean: Well now we went into the Peace Corp training and that’s where I got pregnant and they sent us home and so we never got to go to Honduras.

Doug: So we flunked out on birth control.

Sid: (Laughing) You know what you’re describing you’re doing kind of light now but it’s a heavy thing I mean I don’t want to make you do this but if you went back to the situation you were in. I mean there are people listening to us right now that are so relating and they don’t know what to do. And in fact I think most people do is that they end up blaming themselves not recognizing that the problems are deeper than themselves its…did you blame yourself at all?

Jean: As we came back from the Peace Corp Doug went into corporate America and he got a good job he began to climb the corporate ladder and I began to get involved with my children and so we went through many married years with living separate lives.  He was busy with the corporation I was busy with the children. He was a good father and went to all of their activities but he and I did not relate things that were involved to us until the children left for college.  And then we were face to face and I thought all of these years I heard that I was the problem and I was really beaten down after that.

Doug: And most of those years I really thought that my wife was the problem.

Sid: Did you want a divorce?

Doug: No.

Sid: She wanted one but you?

Doug: Divorce never entered my mind because I was content I loved the job and I was sort of married to my job and I had a place to come home at night that took care of my physical needs, had my laundry done, had my food cooked.

Sid: You realize your describing most marriages today you know that don’t you.

Doug: Yeah I do.

Sid: And that’s why l out of 2 marriages ends up in divorce even in the church.

Doug: That’s right and I was going to say even in the church the statistics are the same.

Sid: Mishpochah unfortunately we’re out of time but I believe that we’re touching on very very important nerves if not you you know someone that has problems along these lines…

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