Dr. RT Kendall

Sid: I believe when you listen to what I’ll be talking about this week and start applying it that insulation that is preventing you from receiving all of the love, all of the anointing God is going to disintegrate and you will be so filled with the love of God. I have on the telephone RT Kendall. I’m speaking to him at his home in Key Largo, Florida. RT is the former Senior Minister of Westminster Chapel. He is PhD from Oxford University. And I have in my hand his book titled and listen to this title because it’s a message in itself “Total Forgiveness” subtitle “When Everything in You Wants to Hold a Grudge Point a Finger and Remember the Pain God Wants You to Lay it All Aside.” RT how did you happen to write this book?

RT: Well Sid it came in the darkest hour that my wife and I had every gone through. It was while I was a minister of a church in London and I’d been deeply hurt and if I were to tell you the story I could win you over. I was very angry.

Sid: I find it with myself that it works the same way I could convince you of lots of people that have wronged me takes no talent at all.

RT: Exactly. Well an old friend from Romania but the name of Joseph Zung came through London because I knew that he wouldn’t tell anybody I thought I need to tell one person if only to get it off of my chest. And if I’m totally honest with you Sid the only reason I told Joseph what they did was for him to put his arm around me and say “RT you ought to be angry get it off of your chest but instead he looked at me and said “Is there anything more?” I said “No, that’s it.” And then he said “RT, you must totally forgive them until you totally forgive them you will be in chains, release them and you will be released.” Nobody had ever talked to me like that in my life faithful are the wounds of a friend. And then I said “Joseph you know I didn’t tell you everything there’s more.” RT you must in his Romanian accent “Totally forgive them until you totally forgive them…I can hear him now “You will be in chains, release them and you will be released.” And that’s what he said and it changed my life Sid.

Sid: When you say it changed your life be a little more descriptive in what way?

RT: Well if I could take the whole of 25 years of my being at Westminster Chapel in London to one moment that was the most pivotal wonderful life changing moment of those 25 years. It changed my perspective, it released the Holy Spirit, I began to get insight I’d never had before, a peace that I had years before came back. I had an anointing unlike anything I had ever had in my life. And I have since taken this message literally all over the world I’ve preached it in Israel, I’ve preached it in Australia, I’ve preached it in Hong Kong, and over the United Kingdom, and America and everywhere I go people come up to me saying “Thank you I’ve never heard anything like it.” Which is surprising when you consider it’s the ABC’s of Jesus teaching. But that’s what they say to me and it has changed lives and it has given focus of my ministry that I’ve never had before that’s just an openers.

Sid: You know what I find interesting and I’m sure that God is doing this on purpose, but you have endorsements in your book from the top Charismatics in the world and endorsements from the top Evangelical Fundamentalists in the world.

RT: And today I got a letter from Tony Campolo and he has given it the greatest endorsement I could have wanted.

Sid: I mean look at this from D. James Kennedy quote “This is a book that should be read around the world.” Let me ask you the most important question probably ask you right now and that is most Christians know that their supposed to forgive. But they might have set a pray asked for forgiveness, maybe even gone to the person and asked for forgiveness but every time they come around that person the stomach acids churn and there’s something going on that doesn’t spell I love you.

RT: Right, right.

Sid: So how can you get from the point of intellectually wanting to forgive to really supernaturally doing it?

RT: Well, let me just say that when Joseph Zung said what he did for me “You must totally forgive them.” Well I said “Joseph “I can’t,” he said “You can and you must!” And I don’t say that it’s easy Sid in fact it’s the hardest thing that I’ve ever had to do in my life because the moment I would forgive them in my heart I was in that moment saying “Lord let them off the hook, don’t let them get caught.” And then I would think “My, my word these people they’re getting away with this no one will know surely isn’t right.” And I’d get all churned.

Sid: And God of course needs you to expose them (Laughing.)

RT: Well it’s not my responsibility to expose them and no one will every know who it was, what it was you know it’s…

Sid: No, no that’s the thought that we normally have “If I don’t expose them who else will?”

RT: God then said to me one day “RT I know one or two thing about you I don’t think you’d want anybody to know how would you like if I told what I knew about you?” And I said “Stop.” The truth is we’ve all got skeletons in the closet and I just said “Lord forgive me forever thinking that they should be caught and exposed because You’ve been good to me.” And it still wasn’t easy but I began to do it and the degree to which I did it the greater the sense of God’s presence and the greater the anointing. And I’m trying to make that clear in the book that you’ve kindly referred to called “Total Forgiveness.”

Sid: You really caught my ear on that last phrase which was “The more you did this the greater the anointing” explain that.

RT: Well when I would think about what they did and that no one was going to get caught and it would get me all upset I would lose the peace and then I would forgive them in my heart and just start praying for them and praying for them to be blessed as though they hadn’t done anything. Then I would get the most wonderful peace come over me and more insight into God’s word and it just got better and better. I just came to the conclusion that peace is better than the anger of wanting them to get caught.

Sid: You know there is a depth almost a mystery of the degree of God’s love that He wants to fill us with that somehow this area of bitterness and unforgiveness is blocking this.

RT: Hm. Yes you will know the verse in Ephesians 4:30 “Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were sealed until the day of redemption.” It comes from the Greek word that means “To get your feelings hurt to grieve.” It shows the Holy Spirit can get His feelings hurt. The Holy Spirit is a very sensitive person and the chief way we grieve Him is by bitterness. Because the very next thing that Paul said was “Let all bitterness, wrath, anger be put away from you,” and then he went on to say “Forgiving one another as God in Christ has forgiven you.” So to the degree in which we do that the degree to which we have a greater anointing believe me it works.

Sid: Now is it possible to forgive someone and not really want to be around them?

RT: Yeah yeah I have a section in my book with which goes to show that reconciliation and forgiveness are not necessarily the same thing. Take an example of a person who has molested children and you forgive him but you wouldn’t want him to teach Sunday school class with little boys anymore would you?

Sid: Of course not.

RT: Okay that’s the point just because you forgive doesn’t mean that everything can be exactly as it was before then.

Sid: Not only that in that particular instance you might also tell others.

RT: Well your right a lady in my church in London was raped by a man and they found the man and asked her to testify against him. She came to me and “I don’t want to testify against him I’ve forgiven him.” I said “But the truth is this man is a danger to society you must testify against him.” And she said “But I found out that he’s was from Iran and if I testify against him they will send him back to Iran and there he will be beheaded. I said “Well I’m sorry you must testify he’s a danger to society, there’s no bitterness in your heart you have an obligation.” And so she did, she testified against him and they sent him to Iran and she never knew any more but she forgave him but still had to testify.

Sid: I want you to say one more time what in your opinion is the proof that you have totally forgiven someone.

RT: Well there are several things Sid shall I start in?

Sid: Please.

RT: Okay the first proof that you’ve totally forgiven you will not tell what they did. Now the exception would be you may tell your pastor for therapeutic reasons you pour your heart out just like with the lady who had to testify she had to tell that. But the main reason we tell what they did Sid is because we want them to get caught or we want them to be found out.

Sid: So it depends on the motivation involved.

RT: Yeah we want people to think less of them and we also…it’s a chance to show self-pity. And excuse ourselves and make ourselves to look good and to make the other person to look bad. Well that’s wrong, total forgiveness is when you don’t tell what they did.

Sid: I’ll tell you what we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast this promises to be a fascinating week but I can tell you this book will nail areas that you’ve never even thought about before. And what’s at stake? The flow of God’s Spirit fulfilling your full destiny on this earth you don’t what anything separating you from the love of God.

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